ZOS why are you still hiding the player caps in Player Housing???

MornaBaine

NOWHERE in the crown store does it say how many players each house will hold. This is EXTREMELY misleading. Nor have I been able to find ANY OFFICIAL source that lists the player caps for each house. When will you correct this and tell your players how many players each house will actually hold up front???

snakester320

There not going to publish that till you find out your 3mill manor that's so large you should be able to find 200+ players is only 24 ..like crown crates not publishing the drop rate if ppl found out no one would buy..

Cadbury

snakester320 wrote: »

There not going to publish that till you find out your 3mill manor that's so large you should be able to find 200+ players is only 24 ..like crown crates not publishing the drop rate if ppl found out no one would buy..

Watching Deltia open $100 worth of crates was enough to put me off Crown Crates.

24 players max? There goes my dream of reenacting the House Party movies :'(

MornaBaine

snakester320 wrote: »

There not going to publish that till you find out your 3mill manor that's so large you should be able to find 200+ players is only 24 ..like crown crates not publishing the drop rate if ppl found out no one would buy..

If that's really the case, that's really low and deceptive. I hope they have more integrity than that and will at least publish the caps here on the forums.

Zypheran

They did address this in ESO Live and implied that they MIGHT up the limit in time if they felt it wouldn't impact performance. Its better to start out low and increase rather than vice versa.
But I agree with your point @MornaBaine , the limits should be included in the preview rather than only shown after you buy.

freespirit

Please someone @ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom is there an answer for this?

I know several Guild Master's who want to use the largest home as a Guild Hall.....

This would be useless if the player limit is set too low. At least two of these guilds have 150+ people online 24/7.

Now I'm not suggesting that all 150+ would want to descend on the Hall at the same time(although that would be cool), however without knowing the cap, organising big guild parties is more problematic.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Cadbury wrote: »

Watching Deltia open $100 worth of crates was enough to put me off Crown Crates.

^ This.

In fact I was resolved to never buy one by the time he was about a third of the way through.

All The Best

Zakor

Manor cap is 24 players, large homes have a cap of 12.

ZOS already explained that this is due to performance issues and they're looking for ways to increase this (can't remember source sadly, ESO Live maybe?)

lehran

Assuming they haven't changed from PTS, the caps are as follows (note that you always have a dedicated slot in the house, so the caps listed below are the cap of OTHER players, e.g. a manor can fit 24 players PLUS you, for 25 total).

Small: 6
Medium: 12
Large: 12
Manor: 24

They have cited these caps are at least partially due to performance considerations and I believe they mentioned they'd look into ways to increase them. No firm dates have been set for anything in that regard, however.

MornaBaine

lehran wrote: »

Assuming they haven't changed from PTS, the caps are as follows (note that you always have a dedicated slot in the house, so the caps listed below are the cap of OTHER players, e.g. a manor can fit 24 players PLUS you, for 25 total).

Small: 6
Medium: 12
Large: 12
Manor: 24

They have cited these caps are at least partially due to performance considerations and I believe they mentioned they'd look into ways to increase them. No firm dates have been set for anything in that regard, however.

I noticed they lumped all the Large and Medium houses into one single category to try to make the disparity not so noticeable. But the HUGE PRICE DIFFERENCES are still there. And I see no reason to pay over twice as much for a house that holds only 12 players just like the far less expensive house. IMO the houses formerly categorized as large need to hold 24 players also. 18 at the very least.

snakester320

lehran wrote: »

Assuming they haven't changed from PTS, the caps are as follows (note that you always have a dedicated slot in the house, so the caps listed below are the cap of OTHER players, e.g. a manor can fit 24 players PLUS you, for 25 total).

Small: 6
Medium: 12
Large: 12
Manor: 24

They have cited these caps are at least partially due to performance considerations and I believe they mentioned they'd look into ways to increase them. No firm dates have been set for anything in that regard, however.

I can only assume this is because it's instanced housing and each instanced lot if it was allowed to fit 200+players in it would take up massive server space causing massive crashes of the housing system .. the other option was going server based housing as in a designated area with only houses in it would limit the amount of houses to be sold so ppl would miss out on housing but could allow infinite numbers of players to enter..

Soella

I think the main problem is that we don't have guild halls.

If we could buy some houses directly for the guild (not GM or officers), and have larger limits only for guild halls, I think it could be good compromise between server performance and player's wishes.

snakester320

They have adressed it on the forums yes but how many ppl don't read the forums there should be info on the crown store or in game at what your getting or not getting for your money..
not going after the fact ohh btw you can only have 24 ppl in your 3. Whatever mill home..

No offence wouldn't it save the forums a whole lot of hate threads and arguments between ppl who have seen the figures and those who have not by just making it common knowledge by fully disclosing the ins and outs in the first place?
Once again it seems like deceptive marketing on ZOS part like crown crates all to make money..

MornaBaine

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/318838/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-7-5

So this is what we get as our answer to this question,

Homes have limits on the number of items, collectibles, and visitors that may be present, with larger homes having higher caps.

@ZOS_GinaBruno this seems deliberately deceptive. I'm sure you don't mean to be. So please explain why this information is being hidden from players. If it will not be provided in the patch notes and it will not be provided in the previews how are buyers to make an informed decision when this most vital piece of information is being kept from us?

MornaBaine

Zakor wrote: »

Manor cap is 24 players, large homes have a cap of 12.

ZOS already explained that this is due to performance issues and they're looking for ways to increase this (can't remember source sadly, ESO Live maybe?)

What was said by @ZOS_GinaBruno regarding possibly raising the player caps at some point in the future was extremely vague as was the comment about performance issues. They never explained why 40 players can be in a bank but the most that can ever be in any house is 24. And the fact is, if ONE house can hold 24 players, they ALL can. The limits are completely arttifical and have been set that way deliberately. And that's not right since 24 is far too low in the first place.

Riejael

I'm a bit unconvinced that the caps are for server load. Everquest 2 can handle an entire server in a guild hall (I saw it in the Lucan D'Lere server when they had a mass player made event fair, was large enough to warrant GM controlled faction leaders to attend).

hamgatan

So does this mean there will be long queues out the front of Brothels?

MornaBaine

Seriously though Zeni... think we could get an answer to this? I really CAN'T buy a house without absolutley knowing what the player cap is ahead of time. Finding out AFTER the purchase is not good enough.

MornaBaine

hamgatan wrote: »

So does this mean there will be long queues out the front of Brothels?

LOL Yes. Yes it does. Bring your little blue pills.

Enodoc

The player caps all appear in-game when you're in the Housing Editor, but I agree it would be good if they were shown somewhere in the House Preview as well, i.e. before you buy the house. In the meantime, they're here: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2017/02/06/homestead-basics-guide

Apparently the performance issues they're worried about is based on everyone duelling all at the same time, or some-such. If that's the primary issue, maybe they could look into capping the number of duels that can take place simultaneously, as a separate limit to the player cap.

ADarklore

What? Tell me it isn't so... ZOS being deceptive... you mean like how they were with telling people about the limitations of assistants?!? It seems ZOS doesn't believe in being forthright with 'limitations' in the things they implement.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

The player caps all appear in-game when you're in the Housing Editor, but I agree it would be good if they were shown somewhere in the House Preview as well, i.e. before you buy the house. In the meantime, they're here: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2017/02/06/homestead-basics-guide

Apparently the performance issues they're worried about is based on everyone duelling all at the same time, or some-such. If that's the primary issue, maybe they could look into capping the number of duels that can take place simultaneously, as a separate limit to the player cap.

That article is BS!

This company continues to intentionally leave ambiguous or no information in the game until after you spend gold or real money and it's not just houses.

-homes
-assistants
-crown store
-ESO plus
-crowns
-actually tool tips and gameplay or lacking UI info

Marto

I'm willing to bet the reason why they can't increase the cap is because they already coded everything.

The "chunks" of megaservers that are used to hold in all the instances of Housing are coded and designed to hold the current amount of players. I think it's safe to assume increasing the cap is not a simple as typing a new number in a line of code.

The "chunk" of server that is a city, with hundreds of players, is probably FAR better optimized than the current Housing "chunks".

This update added the ability of the megaservers to handle THOUSANDS of independent phases, which can be modified specifically. I'm sure they didn't code that in a day.

Furthermore, Console parity is a thing. And while ZoS has not argued or even said anything regarding console parity, they don't want it to feel like the inferior version. It's not good for the health of the game(s) overall.
If an Xbone or a PS4 can't handle more 600 items and 24 players... then yes, we'll have a problem when people run to their local sony/microsoft forum to complain about broken consoles.

parkham

lehran wrote: »

[...]They have cited these caps are at least partially due to performance considerations and I believe they mentioned they'd look into ways to increase them. No firm dates have been set for anything in that regard, however.

That's all well and good - but if you can fit 70+ people in a dungeon or 200+ running around Mournhold without any issues - then having 150 in just another building shouldn't cause a problem (it wouldn't seem).

edit: I just read marto's reply. I think that would be a more likely reason.

parkham

Soella wrote: »

I think the main problem is that we don't have guild halls.

If we could buy some houses directly for the guild (not GM or officers), and have larger limits only for guild halls, I think it could be good compromise between server performance and player's wishes.

I like the idea - if they could figure out a way for guilds to buy guild halls specifically (and what to do if the guild is shuttered).... for the guild. Then problem solved. Your mega guild can have their 300 people for a HUGE sum of gold or Crowns.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

LOTRO housing isn't fully instanced like ESO.

In LOTRO they have neighbourhoods with 30 or so houses in each.

My LOTRO Guild once had 50+ people in the Guild House for an event. And when we outside to the "garden" other Guilds had things going on as well - must have been 150+ all told. No performance issues whatsoever.

Some of the Wildstar plots I have seen have been so complex with so many elements that they would use up ESO's Item limit multiple times.

It can be done, but not if the company wants to do it entirely on the cheap.

All The Best

zaria

snakester320 wrote: »

lehran wrote: »

Assuming they haven't changed from PTS, the caps are as follows (note that you always have a dedicated slot in the house, so the caps listed below are the cap of OTHER players, e.g. a manor can fit 24 players PLUS you, for 25 total).

Small: 6
Medium: 12
Large: 12
Manor: 24

They have cited these caps are at least partially due to performance considerations and I believe they mentioned they'd look into ways to increase them. No firm dates have been set for anything in that regard, however.

I can only assume this is because it's instanced housing and each instanced lot if it was allowed to fit 200+players in it would take up massive server space causing massive crashes of the housing system .. the other option was going server based housing as in a designated area with only houses in it would limit the amount of houses to be sold so ppl would miss out on housing but could allow infinite numbers of players to enter..

No, go to Rawl'kwa at prime time and look at max capacity. Now add that Rawl'kwa has lots of npc and is far larger than an mansion. Server also has to keep track on far more in Rawl'kwa, players stealing, trading, fighting npc or nearby animals.

As the house is an instance, an hard crash will just reload the instance.
If everybody started dueling and spamming AoE this might easy crash clients, this is less an problem than at Rawl'kwa since the spammer crashes a guildmates computer, not some poor random guy.

zaria

Marto wrote: »

I'm willing to bet the reason why they can't increase the cap is because they already coded everything.

The "chunks" of megaservers that are used to hold in all the instances of Housing are coded and designed to hold the current amount of players. I think it's safe to assume increasing the cap is not a simple as typing a new number in a line of code.

The "chunk" of server that is a city, with hundreds of players, is probably FAR better optimized than the current Housing "chunks".

This update added the ability of the megaservers to handle THOUSANDS of independent phases, which can be modified specifically. I'm sure they didn't code that in a day.

Furthermore, Console parity is a thing. And while ZoS has not argued or even said anything regarding console parity, they don't want it to feel like the inferior version. It's not good for the health of the game(s) overall.
If an Xbone or a PS4 can't handle more 600 items and 24 players... then yes, we'll have a problem when people run to their local sony/microsoft forum to complain about broken consoles.

Pretty sure cap is an single limit in housing definition.
That something is instanced let they run the instance on random server in rack, yes they will need to allocate memory for it and here the cap is probably used.

Game uses instances everywhere you get an loading door who takes time to open.
Dungeons and raids also contains plenty of data except that instance is destroyed then you leave.

Consoles has far better performance than the minimum requirements for ESO on PC, note that you can run it on worse but I would not go to cyrodil with that

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The player caps all appear in-game when you're in the Housing Editor, but I agree it would be good if they were shown somewhere in the House Preview as well, i.e. before you buy the house. In the meantime, they're here: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2017/02/06/homestead-basics-guide

Apparently the performance issues they're worried about is based on everyone duelling all at the same time, or some-such. If that's the primary issue, maybe they could look into capping the number of duels that can take place simultaneously, as a separate limit to the player cap.

That article is BS!

There's nothing wrong with the article. An official source with all the info that MornaBaine wanted "before buying a house" is there. The fact that they don't show these numbers in the House Preview when they really should is a flaw in the house preview. It doesn't mean the article is bad.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The player caps all appear in-game when you're in the Housing Editor, but I agree it would be good if they were shown somewhere in the House Preview as well, i.e. before you buy the house. In the meantime, they're here: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2017/02/06/homestead-basics-guide

Apparently the performance issues they're worried about is based on everyone duelling all at the same time, or some-such. If that's the primary issue, maybe they could look into capping the number of duels that can take place simultaneously, as a separate limit to the player cap.

That article is BS!

There's nothing wrong with the article. An official source with all the info that MornaBaine wanted "before buying a house" is there. The fact that they don't show these numbers in the House Preview when they really should is a flaw in the house preview. It doesn't mean the article is bad.

@Enodoc

Clarifying my comment is saying that the article provides information that isn't in the game.
The company intentionally leaves out details even after years or weeks of feedback in cases where real money purchases, long grinds or gold sinks are placed

In short
If it was in the UI there would be no need for the article....

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The player caps all appear in-game when you're in the Housing Editor, but I agree it would be good if they were shown somewhere in the House Preview as well, i.e. before you buy the house. In the meantime, they're here: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/2017/02/06/homestead-basics-guide

Apparently the performance issues they're worried about is based on everyone duelling all at the same time, or some-such. If that's the primary issue, maybe they could look into capping the number of duels that can take place simultaneously, as a separate limit to the player cap.

That article is BS!

There's nothing wrong with the article. An official source with all the info that MornaBaine wanted "before buying a house" is there. The fact that they don't show these numbers in the House Preview when they really should is a flaw in the house preview. It doesn't mean the article is bad.

Clarifying my comment is saying that the article provides information that isn't in the game.
The company intentionally leaves out details even after years or weeks of feedback in cases where real money purchases, long grinds or gold sinks are placed

In short
If it was in the UI there would be no need for the article....

Ah sure, that's fair enough