Ideas for specialists. How to include people instead of excluding?

tunepunk

Often i see people playing their role on a single bar, that has not yet gotten familiar with stacking skills and dots to increase their DPS output. Many would probably say they are bad players, but I beg to differ. Many of them avoid mechanics perfectly, and can run through vet dungeons without deaths, but their DPS output might not be considered very good. So instead of forcing people to play a certain way, why not have a few set items that would actually buff their playstyle rather than having people kick them from group, because they are not comfortable with, constant bar swap and upkeep?

I think one reason is that a lot people have a skill setup that is situational for when they solo play. 1'st bar for damage, 2nd bar for survival, and such, where as in a dungeon setting, their second bar get's rarely used, so their dps is lacking. 1 bar is perfectly fine DPS for most solo content.

I would like to see a few sets in the future that could help even out the way that people run their characters, so that they can run their role without having to conform to a meta rotation, and enjoy the game with the rest, without having people complain about their DPS output, because their solo skill setup is situational.

I see a lot of people in pugs, running their only bar in dungeons because that's the setup they have when they solo. 1 bar for damage, 1 bar for self heals and such. Rather than dissing those people complaining about their DPS output/rotation/meta gear, how do we include them?


One way would be to create sets that accommodate that playstyle.

Let's take spriggan's set for example. Why not have similar sets, with bigger bonuses to skills based on which bar you're on.

Examples of how these set would look like.

* 8000 penetration on main bar, 8000 resistance on secondary bar.

* +20% crit chance on main bar. 20% healing done on secondary bar.

* 20% healing done on main bar, 20% damage done on secondary bar.

So instead of excluding players that are not comfortable with conforming to meta builds/rotations, it would be better to give them sets that will buff their playstyle. Probably not to the point on where they do more damage on a single bar, but buffing it to be able to meet, a certain mark using a single bar.

I see a lot of solo DPS characters with resto staff or survival skills on their back bar.

I really like the idea that people should be able to play a way that they are comfortable with, not being forced to practice a certain rotation and equipping certain skills for a meta setup. I think this game needs set's that buff a situational bar setup, where the second bar is secondary. It would give more variety to builds, buff your main skills, and no bonus to your secondary skills.

what do you think?

tunepunk

Another idea would be to buff the weapon traits even further, so if your main bar is Healing, tanking, dps, you could do that better.

I just feel that bar swapping was intended for situational swaps like.

Group is in trouble, let's switch to some healing instead of DPS, when group is fine. Switching back.
We need an off-tank or tank is down, someone switching to secondary tanking set.
We're not taking much damage, healer switches to DPS.
Big group of adds incoming, switching to Area skills instead of single target.

I don't know if it's just me that feels like this is the way bar swapping was intended, instead of stacking.

If you look at dungeon finder, you can actually select multiple roles. Any thoughts?

Enslaved

It is not very hard to raise dps output in dungeons. You have to work on your rotation, no matter what class or resource you use to fuel attacks. You don't need maelstorm weapons for 20k dps. Some sets you need can also be crafted.

What you suggest might be pretty bad if you consider these sets would be used in PvP too. I am not against ganking, but burst that such sets would provide = overpowered.

I would like more diversity, too, but I have no real idea how to do it. Maybe if new weapon skills would be introduced, such as spears/polearms for some medium range fights or wands/orbs for magicka users.

tunepunk

Enslaved wrote: »

What you suggest might be pretty bad if you consider these sets would be used in PvP too. I am not against ganking, but burst that such sets would provide = overpowered.

This would probably work well in PVP as well, as you could on second bar keep the things to counter bursts, and go a bit more tanky...

1 bar for offence, 1 bar for defence. I just get the feeling that was the intended way.

I'm not saying they should nerf purely offence builds, but They should buff builds that try to do situational swaps instead of stacking. I've seen many wipes just because there's a lot of players that doesn't have any group support skills at all, when tank or healer goes down, What good is your 50k+ dps if you can't even self sustain for a for rez, and save a group from wipe, either by going tanking or healing for a little bit?

RavenSworn

They first have to lay down some framework regarding PvP. Pve sets for pve, PvP sets for PvP.

tunepunk wrote: »

Another idea would be to buff the weapon traits even further, so if your main bar is Healing, tanking, dps, you could do that better.

I just feel that bar swapping was intended for situational swaps like.

Group is in trouble, let's switch to some healing instead of DPS, when group is fine. Switching back.
We need an off-tank or tank is down, someone switching to secondary tanking set.
We're not taking much damage, healer switches to DPS.
Big group of adds incoming, switching to Area skills instead of single target.

I don't know if it's just me that feels like this is the way bar swapping was intended, instead of stacking.

If you look at dungeon finder, you can actually select multiple roles. Any thoughts?

This is a fantastic way to play but as I said before, a lot of the gear framework needs to change. Having some sets that boost single bar usage will have a tremendous impact on PvP which will then have a downhill effect on players.

tunepunk

RavenSworn wrote: »

They first have to lay down some framework regarding PvP. Pve sets for pve, PvP sets for PvP.

tunepunk wrote: »

Another idea would be to buff the weapon traits even further, so if your main bar is Healing, tanking, dps, you could do that better.

I just feel that bar swapping was intended for situational swaps like.

Group is in trouble, let's switch to some healing instead of DPS, when group is fine. Switching back.
We need an off-tank or tank is down, someone switching to secondary tanking set.
We're not taking much damage, healer switches to DPS.
Big group of adds incoming, switching to Area skills instead of single target.

I don't know if it's just me that feels like this is the way bar swapping was intended, instead of stacking.

If you look at dungeon finder, you can actually select multiple roles. Any thoughts?

This is a fantastic way to play but as I said before, a lot of the gear framework needs to change. Having some sets that boost single bar usage will have a tremendous impact on PvP which will then have a downhill effect on players.

Not necessarily. If you could go from offence to defence at the flick of a switch... Let's say you encounter a ganker in PVP. Switching to your secondary weapon with defensive trait should negate any sharpened traits they are using. So it would be good if set bonuses would have a similar mechanic...

What if some set item had 2, 5 piece effects. 5000 penetration damage to main bar, 5000 to resistances or healing done on secondary bar? that would give you a reason to go dual role. Your main bar is buffed for more DPS, your back bar is buffed for more healing/group support or something like that?

You wouldn't stack up on Offensive skills on your back bar then, and slot more Defensive skills there instead.

That would encourage more situational and diverse builds.... and you could go from dps mode to survival/group support mode more easily.

Your dps bar should almost match dual bar rotation builds.
Your other bar should almost match dual bar tank/heal builds.

I think that would be more fun gameplay, if they made it better to role switch simply by weapon swapping.

tunepunk

Enslaved wrote: »

I would like more diversity, too, but I have no real idea how to do it. Maybe if new weapon skills would be introduced, such as spears/polearms for some medium range fights or wands/orbs for magicka users.

Yeah some more skills would be good too. Maybe healing skills with a damage component. Maybe a little bit like how Spiked Bone Shield works. It gives you a Damage shield but at the same time does a little bit damage to enemies hitting you.

But mostly I'm for buffing dual roles. I don't know how they would do it. But I see way too many people using 1 bar for dps, and one bar for self heal/defensive skills, and I think that those should be accommodated, so that they can enjoy end game content without having to conform to endgame meta builds and rotations.

I've seen some really good survivalists not doing very massive damage, but killers at self sustain, standing way longer than a than other builds, soloing really hard content and bosses, but they are not desirable in a group setup as their build is more of a jack of all trades. So I think it's better to buff those situational builds in some way, where they can switch from both great DPS to great self sustain/group suppor depending on which bar they are using at the moment, instead of being average at both.

Jamini

The lack of soft caps is really the crux of the issue.

Reduce overall damage output, and you will see more specs for self-sustain and hybrids become more viable.

I've seen some really good survivalists not doing very massive damage, but killers at self sustain, standing way longer than a than other builds, soloing really hard content and bosses

Tanking and non-gankblade PvP builds tend to be close to this. On my tank I can (slowly) solo a great number of things a lot of average DDs simply can't simply due to his raw self-sufficiency and mitigation. (Mind, high-end DDs can solo even better than I can. vMA is a pain in the ass due to the sheer amount of damage/attacks coming in constantly.)

Be mindful that swapping between roles is actually not terribly difficult to do. Armor makes up about half of more of your raw stats, and skills are another third. While a 20k health 30k stam DD isn't ideal, it certainly can work for all but the hardest content in the game. (Also stuff like maxstam/maxmag food is fantastic for a soloing tank who might not need 30+k health on his solo/dd set.)

---

Also vMA is a little special, as it's some of the few bits of content where the damage coming in from each NPC is high enough that even a high mitigation build will struggle if they can't kill fast enough. Raw burst is almost required there simply because it's notoriously difficult to tank though it.

tunepunk

Jamini wrote: »

Also vMA is a little special, as it's some of the few bits of content where the damage coming in from each NPC is high enough that even a high mitigation build will struggle if they can't kill fast enough. Raw burst is almost required there simply because it's notoriously difficult to tank though it.

That's exactly why I'm proposing more bar oriented sets, so you can switch more easily from tanky to dps. It's very hard reaching a decent dps using a single bar. And is equally hard going from being a glass cannon, to a tank/or healer.

A lot of builds are viable for a lot of content except dps where the norm seems to be 25k sustained dps or you cant participate. I think that should be reachable with one bar, with bar oriented sets. Ofc you might not beat the best of the pack punching almost double that on a pure DPS build, but at least your single bar setup should make the cut, so you can keep some support skills on back bar instead of going all in for one role.

I mostly play all in dps in vet dungeons, but i would rather see people participating in their comfort zone, doing decent dps than being kicked from group for not playing the latest min/max meta rotation.

AFrostWolf

tunepunk wrote: »

Often i see people playing their role on a single bar, that has not yet gotten familiar with stacking skills and dots to increase their DPS output. Many would probably say they are bad players, but I beg to differ. Many of them avoid mechanics perfectly, and can run through vet dungeons without deaths, but their DPS output might not be considered very good. So instead of forcing people to play a certain way, why not have a few set items that would actually buff their playstyle rather than having people kick them from group, because they are not comfortable with, constant bar swap and upkeep?

I think one reason is that a lot people have a skill setup that is situational for when they solo play. 1'st bar for damage, 2nd bar for survival, and such, where as in a dungeon setting, their second bar get's rarely used, so their dps is lacking. 1 bar is perfectly fine DPS for most solo content.

I would like to see a few sets in the future that could help even out the way that people run their characters, so that they can run their role without having to conform to a meta rotation, and enjoy the game with the rest, without having people complain about their DPS output, because their solo skill setup is situational.

I see a lot of people in pugs, running their only bar in dungeons because that's the setup they have when they solo. 1 bar for damage, 1 bar for self heals and such. Rather than dissing those people complaining about their DPS output/rotation/meta gear, how do we include them?


One way would be to create sets that accommodate that playstyle.

Let's take spriggan's set for example. Why not have similar sets, with bigger bonuses to skills based on which bar you're on.

Examples of how these set would look like.

* 8000 penetration on main bar, 8000 resistance on secondary bar.

* +20% crit chance on main bar. 20% healing done on secondary bar.

* 20% healing done on main bar, 20% damage done on secondary bar.

So instead of excluding players that are not comfortable with conforming to meta builds/rotations, it would be better to give them sets that will buff their playstyle. Probably not to the point on where they do more damage on a single bar, but buffing it to be able to meet, a certain mark using a single bar.

I see a lot of solo DPS characters with resto staff or survival skills on their back bar.

I really like the idea that people should be able to play a way that they are comfortable with, not being forced to practice a certain rotation and equipping certain skills for a meta setup. I think this game needs set's that buff a situational bar setup, where the second bar is secondary. It would give more variety to builds, buff your main skills, and no bonus to your secondary skills.

what do you think?

YES! I'm sick of having to follow meta builds and guides in all games. I want to theory crafting and play my own build that I think will be fun. There needs to be gear sets that would buff unique playstyles.