Player Excuses and Playing the Victim

AlMcFly

I've always been a supporter of playing this game "how you want". I actually encourage people to take their time, enjoy the game, and not rush to endgame. Of all the trollish and detestable people in MMO's, I have to say that I dislike people who make excuses the most. Let me clarify:

I was watching a guy in Zone chat have a conversation when he said something that peaked my interest. He said "My main is only level 27, and I've been playing since the Psijic Order days." (Whatever that means.)

I consider myself a casual, but I played at launch, and had a Veteran character around the time Craglorn was released. I then left the game, only to return a few months ago. I started a brand new character, and my account is at CR 300. In all that, I don't think I'm hardcore. I literally took my time reading all quests again as I took them.

Now I was curious, and asked this guy in chat "Wow, are you only level 27 because you don't play the game a lot?" He immediately replied "Ah, such is the life of a working adult." In my head, I thought that was a [Snip] answer. I said, "Come on, I work 9am-5pm 5 days a week, some weekends, and I have a family. There must be another reason why you are such a low level?" He replied "Not everyone rushes to endgame." I was like "Dude, I'm not rushing at all, and was passed level 27 within three days of playing casually playing."

After a long and drawn out conversation, where he explained that he waived his right to 40 hour a week (essentially working 65 hour weeks), how he's an entrepreneur always working, and how he plays other games as well...I explain to him that ALL of these excuses are completely his choice, and nobody is thrusting these factors onto him. He is literally CHOOSING not to play the game, but he will die before he admits that he has had any choice in the matter, and "really wants to play this game more".

I don't even know why I wrote this in the forums, I just wanted to hear your thoughts about people who, in my opinion, play the victim card when they don't really have the right to.

[Edit to remove profanity]

Wollust

How is he playing the victim by simply saying what level he is and since when he has been playing?
I seriously don't see the issue you're trying to present here?

Prof_Bawbag

I don't get it. Am I missing something obvious here?

AlMcFly

Wollust wrote: »

How is he playing the victim by simply saying what level he is and since when he has been playing?
I seriously don't see the issue you're trying to present here?

Sorry, the point was I asked him why he isn't a higher level, and he kept implying that his "life" is preventing him from playing, but the reasons he gave all continued to be the results of his own choice. When I mention those are his choices, he'd get mad and say he doesn't have a choice. He's acting as if all these choices he made were thrust upon him. aka, he is a "victim" of circumstances out of his control. Get it?

It's, of course, his own business, but I personally see this as a weak character trait, and wondered if others do as well. I guess I'm wrong lol?

starkerealm

AlMcFly wrote: »

He said "My main is only level 27, and I've been playing since the Psijic Order days." (Whatever that means.)

The Psijic Order was the nickname given to early beta testers. There's a few Psijic veterans who post regularly on the boards. Off-hand @SirAndy is the first that comes to mind.

idk

AlMcFly wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

How is he playing the victim by simply saying what level he is and since when he has been playing?
I seriously don't see the issue you're trying to present here?

Sorry, the point was I asked him why he isn't a higher level, and he kept implying that his "life" is preventing him from playing, but the reasons he gave all continued to be the results of his own choice. When I mention those are his choices, he'd get mad and say he doesn't have a choice. He's acting as if all these choices he made were thrust upon him. aka, he is a "victim" of circumstances out of his control. Get it?

It's, of course, his own business, but I personally see this as a weak character trait, and wondered if others do as well. I guess I'm wrong lol?

He also lacks focus. To be CP300 he has to have been playing a level 50 character but he chooses to level up other characters, hence his lvl 27.

and it is his choice, but he does not seem to be upset about the game itself, just that he does not have more time do to he RL. Such is Life.

Riejael

Its not playing the victim. Its an old trend of some players to avoid having their worth in the game measured against others. So they play the 'I'm casual, I work for a living' card to denigrate better players in an effort to marginalize them. They believe by doing so makes them higher on the social scale and above comparison.

This started quite a ways back. I'm not sure why it has been allowed to continue. But when a player does this, it needs to be called out on it. When players see others ostracized for it, they'll take note and stop.

AlMcFly

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

and it is his choice, but he does not seem to be upset about the game itself, just that he does not have more time do to he RL. Such is Life.

Well that's the real irony here right? He wishes he had more time to play? I found this guy having long conversations in Zone chat lol. I think he has a LOT of time to play. He just wouldn't admit that, and continued to claim he has no time to play, yet continues to talk in Zone chat to great lengths. Ironic. XD

starkerealm

"I work for a living." Yeah, as opposed to whom? We all work for a living. Well, except me, they don't pay me.

BlackSparrow

Unless there is context here you're not including, I have to agree that you're being overly harsh.

The question "Why aren't you higher level?" can be interpreted two ways: either curious or accusatory.

He clearly interpreted it in the "curious" sense... in a way that said, "Wow, you're still pretty low level for playing so long. That's interesting. Why haven't you gained more levels in all that time?" His answer sounds to me like he was answering that question. It's like if someone asked you "Why didn't you have ice cream yesterday?" and you're like, "Well, I guess I wasn't really in the mood for it." It's an honest answer to the question, not an excuse. Why would you make an excuse for something that doesn't really matter to you, and you didn't even think about until the question was asked? It's a non-issue.

Meanwhile, the accusatory interpretation implies "You're clearly doing something wrong if you aren't higher level," which appears to be the actual way you asked it. If that is the intention, yes, I can see why you'd think he was acting like a victim.

But from what I can see, he wasn't. He was answering what he thought was an idle question. To him, there's nothing wrong with being low level, and therefore is not playing any sort of victim, because there's no blame there. He doesn't blame work, or real life, or other games for not getting higher level faster, because he's not emotionally invested in being higher level faster. He doesn't care.

So he's not playing the victim so much as you're projecting that he has a victim mentality. You were the one badgering him with a question, assuming that something important to you must be important to everyone else. It sounds to me like he was laughing off his own slow leveling, rather than lamenting it.

Again, unless there's context we're missing.

Prof_Bawbag

AlMcFly wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

How is he playing the victim by simply saying what level he is and since when he has been playing?
I seriously don't see the issue you're trying to present here?

Sorry, the point was I asked him why he isn't a higher level, and he kept implying that his "life" is preventing him from playing, but the reasons he gave all continued to be the results of his own choice. When I mention those are his choices, he'd get mad and say he doesn't have a choice. He's acting as if all these choices he made were thrust upon him. aka, he is a "victim" of circumstances out of his control. Get it?

It's, of course, his own business, but I personally see this as a weak character trait, and wondered if others do as well. I guess I'm wrong lol?

We may just have a different opinion on what we consider to be "Playing the victim" is. To me, though, it's when someone is attempting to garner some sort of sympathy from his/her audience or when they're attempting to control or influence other people's thoughts. The person you're talking about doesn't seem to be doing this. He's merely stating how things are. He was a trifle condescending with his "Ah, such is the life of a working adult" comment if it was said to get some sort of response from yourself, but that's about it.

Tandor

I can't see any indication that he considers himself a victim of anything, he simply makes different choices in his life to the OP and comments that if he had more time he could fit more choices in. That seems simple enough to me.

As for the suggestion by @Giles.floydub17_ESO that he "lacks focus" because he runs more than one character, that's pure nonsense in my view.

I don't really see a point in any of this.

Sigtric

Do you want a cookie?

Judgy post is judgy, and for what reason? Based on how you told the story the only person who seems concerned with his level is you.

SirAndy

starkerealm wrote: »

AlMcFly wrote: »

He said "My main is only level 27, and I've been playing since the Psijic Order days." (Whatever that means.)

The Psijic Order was the nickname given to early beta testers. There's a few Psijic veterans who post regularly on the boards. Off-hand @SirAndy is the first that comes to mind.

@starkerealm
To be more precise, the "Psijic Order" was a small and super secret beta test group that had 24/7 beta access to the ZOS in-house PTS (Then called the Private Test Server).

While everyone else was doing beta test weekends and special events, we had 24/7 access to the latest development version of the game but because we were under a NDA, we weren't allowed to tell anyone that the PTS even existed.

We had (and still have) our own ZOS forum that only we have access to and we were encouraged to not take part in the test weekend forums so we wouldn't accidentally reveal some of the things that were were testing on the PTS.

After launch, the private PTS was recycled and turned into the Public Test Server ...

AlMcFly

BlackSparrow wrote: »

So he's not playing the victim so much as you're projecting that he has a victim mentality. You were the one badgering him with a question, assuming that something important to you must be important to everyone else. It sounds to me like he was laughing off his own slow leveling, rather than lamenting it.

Again, unless there's context we're missing.

What you say is fair. I purposely was careful, and tried as much as I could to project genuine curiosity, though inside my mind, I was beginning to "judge him" more and more with every answer he gave. I really really really was hoping he'd say "I just like to chat." or "I don't play this game for levels, I play just to hang out". That would have been a fair and honest answer in my opinion. I didn't like his answers that "he'd play the game more only if life allowed him to" because I thought they were lies.

Wollust wrote: »

We may just have a different opinion on what we consider to be "Playing the victim" is. To me, though, it's when someone is attempting to garner some sort of sympathy from his/her audience or when they're attempting to control or influence other people's thoughts. The person you're talking about doesn't seem to be doing this. He's merely stating how things are. He was a trifle condescending with his "Ah, such is the life of a working adult" comment if it was said to get some sort of response from yourself, but that's about it.

Ah, yeah. I will say he didn't seem like he was trying to garner sympathy, so maybe I miscategorized this. It was more like he was using Zone chat as a means announcing to the world that he was a veteran, but still only lvl 27. He was discussing it with others as if it were a point of pride, something to brag about. I guess that's the only reason why I started to question him. XD

KerinKor

AlMcFly wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

How is he playing the victim by simply saying what level he is and since when he has been playing?
I seriously don't see the issue you're trying to present here?

Sorry, the point was I asked him why he isn't a higher level

Why?

Why did you ask him?

What does it matter to you why he's 'only' level 27 after a long period of play? .. and saying you're a 'vet' with a playing record as long as you claim I'm very surprised you don't know what the "Psijic Order days" period of thew game refers to.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Does it really matter? How would you know what he really has going on in his life? I don't think he played the "victim" at all. IMO you are in the wrong here for pestering him about being a lower level and then making a forum post about it.

AlMcFly

KerinKor wrote: »

AlMcFly wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

How is he playing the victim by simply saying what level he is and since when he has been playing?
I seriously don't see the issue you're trying to present here?

Sorry, the point was I asked him why he isn't a higher level

Why?

Why did you ask him?

What does it matter to you why he's 'only' level 27 after a long period of play? .. and saying you're a 'vet' with a playing record as long as you claim I'm very surprised you don't know what the "Psijic Order days" period of thew game refers to.

I explained the "why" in my post directly before yours. Also, if you reread, I never claimed to be a "vet". He did. I played in Beta, but I'm not in the forums a lot. How would I know about some Psijic Order group unless I stumbled upon a convo about them?

starkerealm

AlMcFly wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

AlMcFly wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

How is he playing the victim by simply saying what level he is and since when he has been playing?
I seriously don't see the issue you're trying to present here?

Sorry, the point was I asked him why he isn't a higher level

Why?

Why did you ask him?

What does it matter to you why he's 'only' level 27 after a long period of play? .. and saying you're a 'vet' with a playing record as long as you claim I'm very surprised you don't know what the "Psijic Order days" period of thew game refers to.

I explained the "why" in my post directly before yours. Also, if you reread, I never claimed to be a "vet". He did. I played in Beta, but I'm not in the forums a lot. How would I know about some Psijic Order group unless I stumbled upon a convo about them?

In fairness to you, the Psijic Order stuff is semi-obscure. If you don't read the exact posts where it comes up, it's easy to miss, and never realize that was a thing at all. Especially since, you're most likely to see it someplace like @SirAndy's signature... which doesn't actually link back to anything, near as I can tell, but just looks like a guild membership flag.

bellatrixed

Riejael wrote: »

Its not playing the victim. Its an old trend of some players to avoid having their worth in the game measured against others. So they play the 'I'm casual, I work for a living' card to denigrate better players in an effort to marginalize them. They believe by doing so makes them higher on the social scale and above comparison.

This started quite a ways back. I'm not sure why it has been allowed to continue. But when a player does this, it needs to be called out on it. When players see others ostracized for it, they'll take note and stop.

Lol, I actually really agree with this.

Like, there's no shame in simply not WANTING to level, but there actually is a weird undercurrent of "haha I can't level, I'm too busy with my JOB and LIFE, I can't sit online grinding all day" as if all the people with higher level characters grind all day and have no jobs or lives. It's about priorities, even with hobbies. If you don't care enough about ESO to level, then fine, but it's not because you have a job.

AlMcFly

Another thing I simply cannot reconcile in my head: how can you claim to be a "Vet", and take pride in your highest level character being only level 27, when that implies that you are ignoring 99% of the game's content? If you were involved in this mysterious Psijic Order Beta days, that's cool, I bet a lot of cool things were learned during those days. But think about how much stuff has changed since then. How many skills have been changed, nerfed, removed, buff, etc? What about all the DLC added to the game? Craglorn?

Having only a level 27 means you miss ALL of that, and chose not to gain experience. If you did that content, you would undoubtedly be higher level than 27 just through sheer experience gained from quests. How is this cause to consider this achievement braggable? How, in an Elder Scrolls game, is it enviable to not experience the stories, the quests?

Again, he may not have been bragging, but the way in which he carried out this 45 minutes conversation seemed like it was a bragging point, as he brought it up several times.

This shouldn't have bothered me as much as it did, I just couldn't understand this guy's mindset during his Zone chat conversation, and wanted to understand. I probably wouldn't have even jumped into the conversation if it hadn't been mentioned several times his reasons for not playing the game. ALL of this, of course, hinges on everything he was saying being the truth. He may very well have been lying the entire time to troll lol. I don't think he was though.

SirAndy

starkerealm wrote: »

Especially since, you're most likely to see it someplace like @SirAndy's signature... which doesn't actually link back to anything, near as I can tell, but just looks like a guild membership flag.

Well what do you know, looks like the domain name expired. Good thing you posted this, i was able to snipe the domain before someone else got their greasy fingers on it.

@starkerealm
I owe you a beer

srfrogg23

AlMcFly wrote: »

I've always been a supporter of playing this game "how you want". I actually encourage people to take their time, enjoy the game, and not rush to endgame. Of all the trollish and detestable people in MMO's, I have to say that I dislike people who make excuses the most. Let me clarify:

I was watching a guy in Zone chat have a conversation when he said something that peaked my interest. He said "My main is only level 27, and I've been playing since the Psijic Order days." (Whatever that means.)

I consider myself a casual, but I played at launch, and had a Veteran character around the time Craglorn was released. I then left the game, only to return a few months ago. I started a brand new character, and my account is at CR 300. In all that, I don't think I'm hardcore. I literally took my time reading all quests again as I took them.

Now I was curious, and asked this guy in chat "Wow, are you only level 27 because you don't play the game a lot?" He immediately replied "Ah, such is the life of a working adult." In my head, I thought that was a [Snip] answer. I said, "Come on, I work 9am-5pm 5 days a week, some weekends, and I have a family. There must be another reason why you are such a low level?" He replied "Not everyone rushes to endgame." I was like "Dude, I'm not rushing at all, and was passed level 27 within three days of playing casually playing."

After a long and drawn out conversation, where he explained that he waived his right to 40 hour a week (essentially working 65 hour weeks), how he's an entrepreneur always working, and how he plays other games as well...I explain to him that ALL of these excuses are completely his choice, and nobody is thrusting these factors onto him. He is literally CHOOSING not to play the game, but he will die before he admits that he has had any choice in the matter, and "really wants to play this game more".

I don't even know why I wrote this in the forums, I just wanted to hear your thoughts about people who, in my opinion, play the victim card when they don't really have the right to.

I'm not sure why you wrote this on the forums either.

His main is only level 27, so what? Was he complaining about being kicked from groups or something?

I'm not sure what the issue is. It sounds like he just prioritizes his personal life differently.

AlMcFly

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm not sure why you wrote this on the forums either.

His main is only level 27, so what? Was he complaining about being kicked from groups or something?

I'm not sure what the issue is. It sounds like he just prioritizes his personal life differently.

I just wanted to hear opinions. His conversation in Zone chat was going on for a while before I really started reading it. I only started noticing the convo after the third time he thought it pertinent to mention into Zone that he was a working adult and didn't have time to play, even though by this time, the convo was already 30 minutes old at least. I was barely paying attention, but I think the entire thing started when he asked if you can farm low level ores on a high level character. After Zone chat told him you couldn't, he began talking at length why he thought that was dumb. Again, I was barely paying attention to Zone at the beginning of his convo so my memory is hazy.

ArchMikem

AlMcFly wrote: »

Now I was curious, and asked this guy in chat "Wow, are you only level 27 because you don't play the game a lot?" He immediately replied "Ah, such is the life of a working adult." In my head, I thought that was a [Snip] answer.

That was your problem right there. You refused to accept his answer. You don't even know the person, they don't owe you a response that you deem appropriate.

Most people would've laughed and said something relatable back like "yeah the job can get in the way" or something, or just dropped it there at least.

Velvelya

Honestly, coming to the forums to rant about this doesn't reflect on YOU well. It honestly makes you seem petty.

Doctordarkspawn

All I really see is people demanding people either devote their lives to this game or stop playing.

And that's as silly as the first time I heard it.

srfrogg23

AlMcFly wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I'm not sure why you wrote this on the forums either.

His main is only level 27, so what? Was he complaining about being kicked from groups or something?

I'm not sure what the issue is. It sounds like he just prioritizes his personal life differently.

I just wanted to hear opinions. His conversation in Zone chat was going on for a while before I really started reading it. I only started noticing the convo after the third time he thought it pertinent to mention into Zone that he was a working adult and didn't have time to play, even though by this time, the convo was already 30 minutes old at least. I was barely paying attention, but I think the entire thing started when he asked if you can farm low level ores on a high level character. After Zone chat told him you couldn't, he began talking at length why he thought that was dumb. Again, I was barely paying attention to Zone at the beginning of his convo so my memory is hazy.

Sounds to me like you got sucked into a dead end conversation.

CapnPhoton

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

I don't get it. Am I missing something obvious here?

Perhaps. The guy getting picked on for having a life and a level 27 character likely has a lot of money (or building for an early retirement), and as an entrepreneur and investment potential person, probably has his all his sht together.

I have a main that is much higher, however people can pick on me for the whole building a future having a life thing if they want...

Rohamad_Ali

Well he may not be choosing to not play the game . Work is but one aspect of daily life . There is also shopping , family and choirs to keep up the household as well . I remember putting in 70hrs a week a few years ago and that barely left time to log in and feed a horse on a character . I had to retain the interest of my beautiful girl as well , that takes more then a hello and a stroll to the keyboard .

Level 27 does see, more of a complete absence from the game however as I was still able to squeeze some time out of the weekend to hit 50 eventually back when that was cap . The work load was too much when they introduced those very first Goldbar VR 5 ranks . That was making me consider leaving , glad they changed it .

Who knows though , everyone is different . I have too much freedom and time on my hands these days running my rental shop . I do like it but will probably look for extra work in the summer . I like money too .

Savos_Saren

I'm actually part of the Super Psijic Order. I visited the Devs in their dreams and whispered to them "Develop an Elder Scrolls Online game". I gave them intimate knowledge of lore, locations, and quest ideas. Unfortunately, I forgot to whisper one thing...

"Give Dragonknights an execute..."