are dungons, delves etc to short ?

unjulationb16_ESO

hi

just a quick personal background, used to pen and paper rpg, way back in the 70's, if I can remember correctly I played the first version of D&D basic, then expert and finally the first versions of AD&D V1+2 (pleases note I'm not trying to say how amazing I am for doing so, just context)

what I really remember from those times were the size of the adventures/dungeons etc, they'd go on for hours, maybe even 2 of 3 real life sessions

I really miss those in eso, I'm presuming that they have kept them small so it's easy for a group/solo to run through them in a relatively short space of time/in an evening

I have to admit because I'm mainly a solo player so I haven't tried many of the "dungeons" so could be missing out what I'm after there

but would love to see some quests/dungeons/ take several Real life sessions to complete

thoughts?

(please note I could be missing something obvious as to why it is the way it is so don't worry about pointing out the obvious that i may of missed)

unj

Enslaved

Afaik, TES always had kinda short dungeons. Since ESO is MMORPG they are even shorter, with convenient doors that lead you to the start of the dungeon after you killed the boss and similar time savers.

Group dungeons are a bit better, and trials are of proper length.

Turelus

Most of the Delves are actually longer than they were at launch as well.

They could probably do something more interesting and larger in future. A public dungeon the size of Imperial City Sewers but in a PvE zone would be a lot of fun.

Nestor

You should have been here at Launch, all the Dungeons were D Shaped. I think there are one or two still like that, but most have been dramatically expanded from launch. Hildunes Secret Refuge (and this was even expanded a little) in Rivenspire is one example of what they all used to be. It was literally a 3 to 5 minute lap.

There are some Public Dungeons that are quite large, the ones in Wrothgar for example, but there are others like Vile Manse that have been around since the beginning. So, this holds hope we will have more large delves, although they will probably be of the Public flavor

cpuScientist

The problem with delves is they are very easy. Not asking for it to be stupid har or anything. But maybe a teenie weenie bit harder. Like geez literally sneezing will kill em. Even when I first started playing they were unaturaly easy. I remember being underleveled and doing one 5 levels above me no problem then going to bangkorai and the only thing that made it difficult was the fact that back then you would miss mobs if you were underleveled. But whatevs

tunepunk

I completely agree. Even the solo delves should be way longer and deeper. It would be better if they made them instanced and increasingly harder the further in you get, with greater rewards... I wouldn't mind spending a whole evening working my way through a really deep and challenging dungeon, if it was a nice challenge with some good reward in the end.

I like the idea of dailies, but the ones you get now from the guilds are too short. You basically teleport to there, run in, get the item, teleport back. 10 min job. They should really focus on longer and harder content, with greater rewards.

Veteran delves would be nice. Something in the difficulty of Veteran Maelstrom arena.

Right now i'm soloing most normal 4 man dungeons, because it's a bit more challenging. The only ones i haven't completed solo is the ones that require some group mechanic. It takes a bit longer than a 4 man group, but it's more fun and intense. Most solo content is a walk in the park.

So... longer deeper veteran dungeons and solo delves....

unjulationb16_ESO

tunepunk wrote: »

I completely agree. Even the solo delves should be way longer and deeper. It would be better if they made them instanced and increasingly harder the further in you get, with greater rewards... I wouldn't mind spending a whole evening working my way through a really deep and challenging dungeon, if it was a nice challenge with some good reward in the end.

I like the idea of dailies, but the ones you get now from the guilds are too short. You basically teleport to there, run in, get the item, teleport back. 10 min job. They should really focus on longer and harder content, with greater rewards.

Veteran delves would be nice. Something in the difficulty of Veteran Maelstrom arena.

Right now i'm soloing most normal 4 man dungeons, because it's a bit more challenging. The only ones i haven't completed solo is the ones that require some group mechanic. It takes a bit longer than a 4 man group, but it's more fun and intense. Most solo content is a walk in the park.

So... longer deeper veteran dungeons and solo delves....

Aye totally, looks like I'm going to have to lurn to start soloing group dungeons, unfortunately I've lost my two handed weapon due to the way twin born Star seems to work, which I used when faced with multiple enemies, time for some serious practice fighting groups

But glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that the delves/dungeon's/etc could be bigger

Mojmir

Some are actually too long for what they are

unjulationb16_ESO

Mojmir wrote: »

Some are actually too long for what they are

Which ones?

Mojmir

unjulationb16_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Some are actually too long for what they are

Which ones?

Good example for me is,city of ash 2. The beginning is just a continuation of dungeon 1 and pointless,most people I know skip as much of as they can.

SaRuZ

I think they're long enough. All delves/public dungeons are good for now are dailies, skyshard hunting and set farming. Keep it short and sweet imo.

NewBlacksmurf

They are all the right length.
The game was made a whole lot easier and soloable so ppl can fly through.

At launch it would take a long time for many things. Also we were learning the game but the difficulty changes are the big part.


Edit sorry....the difficulty was beta 2013 that I'm thinking of. But it's also been changed after launch even more.

unjulationb16_ESO

That's great that you enjoy the length of the delves/dungeons/etc

Its just unfortunate that I don't, I know that things ain't going to change, I just wish there were some that weren't so short, but there's no point getting pissed with the way thing's are and its not like I'm going to stop playing

So no, you can't have me stuff

I just thought I'd have a conversation about it and see what others thought about the issue

Autolycus

I think that, as someone who has done all of the dungeons literally hundreds of times, that they are exactly as short as they should be, assuming a decent group. If you really want to extend the time it takes to complete, just queue up and find the lowest CP group with the least amount of experience you can.

Don't take me the wrong way though; as arrogant as that sounded, I run new and returning players through content a lot and do my best to teach them and help gear them. Doesn't change the fact that it takes a day and half to get through a dungeon though.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

unjulationb16_ESO wrote: »

That's great that you enjoy the length of the delves/dungeons/etc

Its just unfortunate that I don't, I know that things ain't going to change, I just wish there were some that weren't so short, but there's no point getting pissed with the way thing's are and its not like I'm going to stop playing

So no, you can't have me stuff

I just thought I'd have a conversation about it and see what others thought about the issue

Use activity finder and que in for Vet pledges. That will give you a challenge and then some (based on the people in group finder).

aLi3nZ

TBH I think length is perfect for the majority of them. Some too long, some a little short. Pretty balanced overall I think.

BlackSparrow

As another person who tabletops, I have to say... the main reason a dungeon in D&D (or another tabletop RPG) takes so long is because, in those systems, everything happens at a much slower pace. You can spend over an hour debating with your party members what the next course of action should be, trying to anticipate what the DM has planned and looking through your resources to see what would be best to use in your current situation. And that's not even touching on the combat. Depending on which system and edition you're playing, one basic fight can take multiple sessions (4E D&D, I love you for what you do for spellcasters, but sweet gods do you drag ).

The fact is that tabletop RPGs and MMORPGs are simply two different monsters. Sure, spending an hour debating how to best approach the locked chest in D&D is fun (because, clearly, it's a trap, right?), but a lot of that fun comes from your interaction with your fellow players and you DM. If it's just you, spending an hour alone while trying to study that locked chest, the task becomes tedious. Unrewarding. Boring. There's no DM in MMOs to try to anticipate, because MMOs aren't about that. More than anything, MMOs are about a sense of progression, because that's what keeps you coming back. That progression can come in multiple forms--leveling, gaining gear, climbing up PvP ranks, whatever--but one thing that is definitely not progression is playing the same dungeon for six hours straight.

I remember dungeons in Daggerfall, and those were probably the closest an RPG video game has come to mimicking a tabletop. And you know what? I hated those dungeons. They were a chore, because they took hours to clear, and often involved puzzles and hidden areas that were downright frustrating (to the point of unfairness) to figure out on your own. In the end, it was just you, wandering around in a maze, killing the same types of bad guys over and over again and hoping you were lucky enough to find enough loot to justify the time and resources spent clearing the dungeon. Without the social element of problem-solving with friends, such dungeons are tedious and frustrating. Personally, if I'm playing a video game, I'd much rather be playing a game where I can craft a proper story about my character and just generally doing stuff that feels slightly productive, instead of spending all my free time killing stuff underground alone.

I'm not saying you're wrong to like what you like. Just that I don't agree. I love tabletop RPGs, and I love video games... but the fact is that they serve two very different needs for me. As far as I'm concerned, their approaches to dungeons are best left distinctive to their genres, with plenty of space left between them.

unjulationb16_ESO

Fair play @blacksparrow, I take on board that a lot of the time spent in table top RPG's was the whole social aspect, sat discussing what to do etc and maybe I'm romanticising (not sure if that's the right word, dyslexia and dodgy memory getting in the way but you know what I mean right?)

the AD&D adventure I remember the fondest - apart from the campaigns that me mates made themselves was the first version of Ravenloft ( I6 1983 AD&D 1st edition)) before they created a whole campaign around it

I've been trying to find a map covering the whole castle but no luck yet

but anyway I remember it being huge - could be remembering through rose-tinted glasses ????

but I may well be remembering the whole social thing that went along with table top games, my memory certainly ain't what it used to be

and I think you might be on to something about the fact that they are two different beasts - table top vs MMO's

that's given me something to think about for sure, cheers

ADarklore

tunepunk wrote: »

I completely agree. Even the solo delves should be way longer and deeper. It would be better if they made them instanced and increasingly harder the further in you get, with greater rewards... I wouldn't mind spending a whole evening working my way through a really deep and challenging dungeon, if it was a nice challenge with some good reward in the end.

I like the idea of dailies, but the ones you get now from the guilds are too short. You basically teleport to there, run in, get the item, teleport back. 10 min job. They should really focus on longer and harder content, with greater rewards.

Veteran delves would be nice. Something in the difficulty of Veteran Maelstrom arena.

Right now i'm soloing most normal 4 man dungeons, because it's a bit more challenging. The only ones i haven't completed solo is the ones that require some group mechanic. It takes a bit longer than a 4 man group, but it's more fun and intense. Most solo content is a walk in the park.

So... longer deeper veteran dungeons and solo delves....

Please expand on which existing dungeons require group mechanic, as I believe the only ones were in Craglorn, and the group mechanic was removed in OT to make them soloable.