For Melee Magicka Characters, I Propose a New Buff...Spellsword!

mr_wazzabi

Eso was built on variety, but lately with cp and many changes to the game, unique builds will get you kicked out of competitive groups.

Spellswords have always been a staple of Elder Scrolls classes, but with the current meta, they're a liability in endgame pve.

There are many melee magicka abilities in the game. The issue is that weaving with dw, 2h and sword n board on a magicka build is really weak due to light and heavy attacks scaling off weapon damage instead of spell, doing physical damage and heavy attacks returning stamina instead of magicka. I propose a fairly simple solution.

Spellsword buff:
When a melee magicka spammable ability is slotted, light and heavy attacks will no longer scale off weapon damage, but spell damage and do magic damage instead of physical damage. Heavy attacks now return magicka instead of stamina.

Here's a list of the abilities that would grant the spellsword buff when slotted:

Dragonknight:
Flame whip, both morphs. I didn't include searing strike because it's a dot, not a spammable. Also, who would slot searing strike and not have flame whipe on the same bar for melee magdk?

Nightblade:
Concealed weapon. This ability is almost dead in pve. The spellsword buff will make it useable again. Am I for a buff to it, absolutely, but that's another discussion.

Sorceror:
Unfortunately, sorcs have no melee magicka spammable, so they won't get access to this buff unless zos gives them one. I don't think this is a problem as every magicka sorc uses ranged builds anyway.

Templar:
Puncturing sweeps


With the spellsword buff, we'll start to see melee magicka builds as a thing in endgame pve content.

This mechanic is completely possible. Anyone paying attention to the frost staff tanking mechanics will see the similarities here.

For those that are saying this will further push away stamina from pve, my answer to you is that stamina is already at the bottom and the only way they can climb is up. I was one of the vocal supporters of bone shield scaling off stamina. But of course too many pvp'ers cried and zos was forced to revert the buff. I fully support a stamina scaled boneshield.

It will not make magicka op in pvp because pure stamina and magicka staff builds already rule the battlefield. The extra damage from weaving sweeps, whip and conceal will not be the cause of your death. The abilities themselves are.

Not every magicka player wants to be pigeonholed into destro staff and we shouldn't have to in order to be competitive. This change will remove the pigeonhole effect and increase variety across all classes.

Who doesn't want to do 45k dps with a 2h mage?

mr_wazzabi

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom what do you think?

Rex-Umbra

I have been calling for this since I started playing and realized my NB Sap Tank can't hit worth crap when mixing in light or heavy attacks and doesn't help me get my stats back leaving me gimped.

Sugaroverdose

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom what do you think?

Swords can swap to magicka+spelldamage just by getting highest values of resource pool and switch damage type to magic, ZoS just too blind to see that stamina ate half of magicka without giving magicka anything in return, so we stuck with stamina mele weapons until wrobel decides anything about battle mechanics.

NightbladeMechanics

I'd like to see a whole new melee magicka weapon line, like a scepter and book or something. Could add all sorts of fun toys in such a weapon line to address melee magicka class issues.

Silver_Strider

Here's my Suggestions

1) Fully Separate the destruction staff into 3 distinct skill lines

• Fire would be all about DoTs
• Frost would be about CC and defense
• Lightning would be about AoE

2) Add in Conjured Weapons and CW+Wards skill lines, in essence coping DW and 1h+Shield in function but for magic purposes builds

So Stamina people don't cry foul, Add in Crossbow and Spear skill lines too

Faulgor

Honestly, I always thought this is how enchantments should work.

If you enchant your weapon with a Fire/Frost/Lightning glyph, that weapon now deals Fire/Frost/Lightning damage with light and heavy attacks instead of physical. Likewise, this could work to create Poison/Disease staffs.

Would be extra cool if it channged the element of all weapon skills as well (Frost Wrecking Blow, let's go).

EldritchPenguin

Faulgor wrote: »

Honestly, I always thought this is how enchantments should work.

If you enchant your weapon with a Fire/Frost/Lightning glyph, that weapon now deals Fire/Frost/Lightning damage with light and heavy attacks instead of physical. Likewise, this could work to create Poison/Disease staffs.

Would be extra cool if it channged the element of all weapon skills as well (Frost Wrecking Blow, let's go).

This could be interesting if the abilities still scaled off of the same primary resource and what have you. I'd love to be able to make a mage that specializes in Poison and Disease damage, and put some points into Mighty.

If we could convert a Magicka weapon one for one into a Stamina weapon and vice versa, then I think a whole lot of build diversity would disappear.

idk

@mr_wazzabi

I know a player pulling hjgh 40k range in trials using only swords. I seriously doubt many competitive groups will turn away dps approaching 50k.

Additionally, is expext anyone trying to dps with S&B to be turned away from a competitive raiding group since it's not a weapon designed for damage. 2H on a magika build should be shown the door as well.

DW already offers a benefit for magika users though dstaffs will become all the rage next month.

Thing is. Dstaff is a fabulously versatile weapon. Both melee and ranged.

mr_wazzabi

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@mr_wazzabi

I know a player pulling hjgh 40k range in trials using only swords. I seriously doubt many competitive groups will turn away dps approaching 50k.

Additionally, is expext anyone trying to dps with S&B to be turned away from a competitive raiding group since it's not a weapon designed for damage. 2H on a magika build should be shown the door as well.

DW already offers a benefit for magika users though dstaffs will become all the rage next month.

Thing is. Dstaff is a fabulously versatile weapon. Both melee and ranged.

Of course snb is not a dps weapon, but if the tank is magicka based, it will help a bit with overall dps.

Dw has more raw spell damage and a 5% damage buff with swords. I don't have access to pts, but this may still yield slightly higher or equal tooltip damage after the 8% fire staff buff. With weaves scaling off spell damage and doing magic damage, dw and 2h magicka builds will be competitive at the highest levels.

All I'm vying for is diversity in builds.

NightbladeMechanics

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@mr_wazzabi

I know a player pulling hjgh 40k range in trials using only swords. I seriously doubt many competitive groups will turn away dps approaching 50k.

Additionally, is expext anyone trying to dps with S&B to be turned away from a competitive raiding group since it's not a weapon designed for damage. 2H on a magika build should be shown the door as well.

DW already offers a benefit for magika users though dstaffs will become all the rage next month.

Thing is. Dstaff is a fabulously versatile weapon. Both melee and ranged.

Of course snb is not a dps weapon, but if the tank is magicka based, it will help a bit with overall dps.

Dw has more raw spell damage and a 5% damage buff with swords. I don't have access to pts, but this may still yield slightly higher or equal tooltip damage after the 8% fire staff buff. With weaves scaling off spell damage and doing magic damage, dw and 2h magicka builds will be competitive at the highest levels.

All I'm vying for is diversity in builds.

2h has an identical passive to twin blade and blunt.

Domander

I like it, I think it might be a good passive for light armor. 5 piece and all weapons use spell damage/magicka

potirondb16_ESO

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Eso was built on variety, but lately with cp and many changes to the game, unique builds will get you kicked out of competitive groups.

Spellswords have always been a staple of Elder Scrolls classes, but with the current meta, they're a liability in endgame pve.

There are many melee magicka abilities in the game. The issue is that weaving with dw, 2h and sword n board on a magicka build is really weak due to light and heavy attacks scaling off weapon damage instead of spell, doing physical damage and heavy attacks returning stamina instead of magicka. I propose a fairly simple solution.

Spellsword buff:
When a melee magicka spammable ability is slotted, light and heavy attacks will no longer scale off weapon damage, but spell damage and do magic damage instead of physical damage. Heavy attacks now return magicka instead of stamina.

Here's a list of the abilities that would grant the spellsword buff when slotted:

Dragonknight:
Flame whip, both morphs. I didn't include searing strike because it's a dot, not a spammable. Also, who would slot searing strike and not have flame whipe on the same bar for melee magdk?

Nightblade:
Concealed weapon. This ability is almost dead in pve. The spellsword buff will make it useable again. Am I for a buff to it, absolutely, but that's another discussion.

Sorceror:
Unfortunately, sorcs have no melee magicka spammable, so they won't get access to this buff unless zos gives them one. I don't think this is a problem as every magicka sorc uses ranged builds anyway.

Templar:
Puncturing sweeps


With the spellsword buff, we'll start to see melee magicka builds as a thing in endgame pve content.

This mechanic is completely possible. Anyone paying attention to the frost staff tanking mechanics will see the similarities here.

For those that are saying this will further push away stamina from pve, my answer to you is that stamina is already at the bottom and the only way they can climb is up. I was one of the vocal supporters of bone shield scaling off stamina. But of course too many pvp'ers cried and zos was forced to revert the buff. I fully support a stamina scaled boneshield.

It will not make magicka op in pvp because pure stamina and magicka staff builds already rule the battlefield. The extra damage from weaving sweeps, whip and conceal will not be the cause of your death. The abilities themselves are.

Not every magicka player wants to be pigeonholed into destro staff and we shouldn't have to in order to be competitive. This change will remove the pigeonhole effect and increase variety across all classes.

Who doesn't want to do 45k dps with a 2h mage?

Should actually be link to Light Armor Passive instead of skill

mr_wazzabi

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@mr_wazzabi

I know a player pulling hjgh 40k range in trials using only swords. I seriously doubt many competitive groups will turn away dps approaching 50k.

Additionally, is expext anyone trying to dps with S&B to be turned away from a competitive raiding group since it's not a weapon designed for damage. 2H on a magika build should be shown the door as well.

DW already offers a benefit for magika users though dstaffs will become all the rage next month.

Thing is. Dstaff is a fabulously versatile weapon. Both melee and ranged.

Of course snb is not a dps weapon, but if the tank is magicka based, it will help a bit with overall dps.

Dw has more raw spell damage and a 5% damage buff with swords. I don't have access to pts, but this may still yield slightly higher or equal tooltip damage after the 8% fire staff buff. With weaves scaling off spell damage and doing magic damage, dw and 2h magicka builds will be competitive at the highest levels.

All I'm vying for is diversity in builds.

2h has an identical passive to twin blade and blunt.

I know this lol

Tannus15

In my opinion it should be added to the 5 piece light armour passive.

I think having it for a slotted skill is a bad idea because it would allow 1 bar to restore stamina and the other bar to restore magicka which seems unbalanced and very powerful for stamina builds.

Tannus15

Domander wrote: »

I like it, I think it might be a good passive for light armor. 5 piece and all weapons use spell damage/magicka

I think this is stupid and way too over powered. No one would run stamina.

Just change the resource restore on heavy attacks

It's funny, I didn't even notice that he wanted damage scale as well in the OP because it would make all stamina builds obsolete and make magika have zero drawbacks.

mr_wazzabi

Tannus15 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I like it, I think it might be a good passive for light armor. 5 piece and all weapons use spell damage/magicka

I think this is stupid and way too over powered. No one would run stamina.

Just change the resource restore on heavy attacks

It's funny, I didn't even notice that he wanted damage scale as well in the OP because it would make all stamina builds obsolete and make magika have zero drawbacks.

Didn't you read the second half of my op? I said I'm one of the ones that very loudly supported bone shield to scale off stam so stam builds could do well in endgame pve. Just because stamina is broken doesn't mean they can't make more options for magicka. There are ways to buff stam but zos won't listen.

LegacyDM

Good idea, but I'm convinced ZOS is trying to slowly and descretly kill magicka duel wield builds. They are trying to create clear dividing lines or swim lanes to make it easier for them to balance. Staves = magicka. duel wield, two handers/bows and shields= stamina. First, they want to lower twin blade and blunt passive for no good reason. Second, With the recent buff to force pulse/crushing shock and 8% buff to all single target damage skills with fire staff equipped, it's pretty clear their goal is to deincentivize any magicka from running duel wield and force the magicka meta to be stave. This is a smart passive way of fading out magicka duel wield without getting the community riled up. Clever @wrobel, very clever.

LegacyDM

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@mr_wazzabi

I know a player pulling hjgh 40k range in trials using only swords. I seriously doubt many competitive groups will turn away dps approaching 50k.

Additionally, is expext anyone trying to dps with S&B to be turned away from a competitive raiding group since it's not a weapon designed for damage. 2H on a magika build should be shown the door as well.

DW already offers a benefit for magika users though dstaffs will become all the rage next month.

Thing is. Dstaff is a fabulously versatile weapon. Both melee and ranged.

Of course snb is not a dps weapon, but if the tank is magicka based, it will help a bit with overall dps.

Dw has more raw spell damage and a 5% damage buff with swords. I don't have access to pts, but this may still yield slightly higher or equal tooltip damage after the 8% fire staff buff. With weaves scaling off spell damage and doing magic damage, dw and 2h magicka builds will be competitive at the highest levels.

All I'm vying for is diversity in builds.

the fire staff passive that increases 8% damage also increases all single target direct damaging spells. I tested this on pts. My funnel health started hitting for 8% more with a fire stave equipped. Between the extra fire damage and increase to spells it currently blows duel wield out of the water. I like your idea.

Faulgor

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Honestly, I always thought this is how enchantments should work.

If you enchant your weapon with a Fire/Frost/Lightning glyph, that weapon now deals Fire/Frost/Lightning damage with light and heavy attacks instead of physical. Likewise, this could work to create Poison/Disease staffs.

Would be extra cool if it channged the element of all weapon skills as well (Frost Wrecking Blow, let's go).

This could be interesting if the abilities still scaled off of the same primary resource and what have you. I'd love to be able to make a mage that specializes in Poison and Disease damage, and put some points into Mighty.

If we could convert a Magicka weapon one for one into a Stamina weapon and vice versa, then I think a whole lot of build diversity would disappear.

I could see it go either way. While it would certainly open a lot more viable builds (poison WoE on backbar for stambuilds, lightning Rapid Strikes for spellsword magicka builds, etc), it's also possible this would lead to a narrower range of FOTM builds than we have now.
But regardless, I think having poison/disease damage scale with magicka and fire/frost/lightning with stamina in specific cases would be quite confusing. Especially when the light and heavy attacks of the same weapon scale differently.

Overall, while I think it would be fun to have different elements for weapon skills, the safest course would be to restrict this to light and heavy attacks, and preferably introduce new enchantments (runes and glyphs) instead of replacing the old ones. While I don't see a lot of obvious balance concerns, mainly because you lose out on another enchantment and weapons are balanced depending on range/melee rather than magical/physical, you never know all the effects a change will have.

Qbiken

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Here's my Suggestions

1) Fully Separate the destruction staff into 3 distinct skill lines

• Fire would be all about DoTs
• Frost would be about CC and defense
• Lightning would be about AoE

2) Add in Conjured Weapons and CW+Wards skill lines, in essence coping DW and 1h+Shield in function but for magic purposes builds

So Stamina people don't cry foul, Add in Crossbow and Spear skill lines too

Nice suggestions, only one little flaw, nothing that will boost single darget dps.

Domander

Tannus15 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I like it, I think it might be a good passive for light armor. 5 piece and all weapons use spell damage/magicka

I think this is stupid and way too over powered. No one would run stamina.

Just change the resource restore on heavy attacks

It's funny, I didn't even notice that he wanted damage scale as well in the OP because it would make all stamina builds obsolete and make magika have zero drawbacks.

We're talking about light/heavy attacks here. It would not make stamina builds obsolete.

DoJohn

Sounds interesting

Sugaroverdose

Tannus15 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I like it, I think it might be a good passive for light armor. 5 piece and all weapons use spell damage/magicka

I think this is stupid and way too over powered. No one would run stamina.

Just change the resource restore on heavy attacks

It's funny, I didn't even notice that he wanted damage scale as well in the OP because it would make all stamina builds obsolete and make magika have zero drawbacks.

Being mele magicka is already huge drawback.

xblackroxe

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I like it, I think it might be a good passive for light armor. 5 piece and all weapons use spell damage/magicka

I think this is stupid and way too over powered. No one would run stamina.

Just change the resource restore on heavy attacks

It's funny, I didn't even notice that he wanted damage scale as well in the OP because it would make all stamina builds obsolete and make magika have zero drawbacks.

Being mele magicka is already huge drawback.

How? Have you ever heard of dks and templars?

There are no drawbacks to be melee damage and survival wise. I'd even argue that being ranged is a disadvantage bc you have a but lower buff uptime and less sustain bc orbs dont get popped frequently around you by other people.

Having melees isn't a disadvantage, having too many is. Currently its basically bring as many melees as mechanics allow and fill up the rest with ranged. Which in most cases is 4/4 split.

lucky_Sage

LegacyDM wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@mr_wazzabi

I know a player pulling hjgh 40k range in trials using only swords. I seriously doubt many competitive groups will turn away dps approaching 50k.

Additionally, is expext anyone trying to dps with S&B to be turned away from a competitive raiding group since it's not a weapon designed for damage. 2H on a magika build should be shown the door as well.

DW already offers a benefit for magika users though dstaffs will become all the rage next month.

Thing is. Dstaff is a fabulously versatile weapon. Both melee and ranged.

Of course snb is not a dps weapon, but if the tank is magicka based, it will help a bit with overall dps.

Dw has more raw spell damage and a 5% damage buff with swords. I don't have access to pts, but this may still yield slightly higher or equal tooltip damage after the 8% fire staff buff. With weaves scaling off spell damage and doing magic damage, dw and 2h magicka builds will be competitive at the highest levels.

All I'm vying for is diversity in builds.

the fire staff passive that increases 8% damage also increases all single target direct damaging spells. I tested this on pts. My funnel health started hitting for 8% more with a fire stave equipped. Between the extra fire damage and increase to spells it currently blows duel wield out of the water. I like your idea.

I know I I'm going to try running 5 rattle 5 lich on my magicka dk using a destro, resto. to bad that's the only way to go 5,5,2 with a two handed weapon though

Sugaroverdose

xblackroxe wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I like it, I think it might be a good passive for light armor. 5 piece and all weapons use spell damage/magicka

I think this is stupid and way too over powered. No one would run stamina.

Just change the resource restore on heavy attacks

It's funny, I didn't even notice that he wanted damage scale as well in the OP because it would make all stamina builds obsolete and make magika have zero drawbacks.

Being mele magicka is already huge drawback.

How? Have you ever heard of dks and templars?

There are no drawbacks to be melee damage and survival wise. I'd even argue that being ranged is a disadvantage bc you have a but lower buff uptime and less sustain bc orbs dont get popped frequently around you by other people.

Having melees isn't a disadvantage, having too many is. Currently its basically bring as many melees as mechanics allow and fill up the rest with ranged. Which in most cases is 4/4 split.

I've played both, and main drawback - you don't have a way to restart battle, you stuck with enemy around you - "kill or be killed"

While magblade can use shade(it's harder than cloak but cloak is bugged as hell so i don't mention it as viable) and sorc just spam bolt-escape(i know about price stacking, but it doesn't make it cost whole magicka pool even with 5 consecutive casts which is more than 100 meters) or whatever it calls to drop tail.

While mist form still can be broken with lagging mass hysteria spammer, or rooted and snare locked by spambush(and it completely disables your magregen with not so small cast price)

Kodrac

Maybe it's something an enchant could do. Enchant a melee weapon with a spell type glyph (elemental damage one perhaps) and *poof* it now scales off of spell damage instead of weapon damage.

mr_wazzabi

Kodrac wrote: »

Maybe it's something an enchant could do. Enchant a melee weapon with a spell type glyph (elemental damage one perhaps) and *poof* it now scales off of spell damage instead of weapon damage.

Then we lose a good enchantment like spell damage or crushing

EldritchPenguin

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Maybe it's something an enchant could do. Enchant a melee weapon with a spell type glyph (elemental damage one perhaps) and *poof* it now scales off of spell damage instead of weapon damage.

Then we lose a good enchantment like spell damage or crushing

And therefore, it's a tradeoff instead of just giving Magicka a way to do utterly everything Stamina can do on top of everything they can already do.

booksmcread

All they really need to do is alter the passives for melee weapons to synergize with magicka. For example, the One Hand and Shield passive, Sword and Board increases weapon damage by X%. Change it to increase weapon and spell damage. The Two Handed passive, Heavy Weapons enables maces to ignore X% of your targets physical resistance. Change it to ignore physical and spell resistance. So on and so forth. This simple change would add a tremendous amount versatility to magicka builds without harming the weapon lines for stamina-based builds.