Please, Please turn off SPC to summoned beings!

Erasure

I want to be a credit to my raid group, Zenimax! You've done it, you've finally created a strong Summoner DPS, but for as long as I eat two group buffs instead of one, the build won't be worth running compared to one that doesn't!



Gear was 5 Necropotence, 3 Willpower Arcane, 2 Ilambris, Sharpened Lightning staff front and Sharpened vMA Lightning staff back. Large Infused/ Small Divines. Self Elemental Drain and Essence of Spell Power for sustain, no group support.

All summons I'm aware of are granted stats based on either Set bonus quality (Morkuldiin, Maw of the Infernal, etc) or Player stat pool (Shades, Daedra, Pack Leader wolves). As they inherit their strength from the player through these limited means, they:

Don't benefit from personal stat grants!

For those unfamiliar, Spellpower Cure grants increased spell and weapon damage to six targets. In this game's Trial environment, two support players wear it to provide the effects to the raid of 12 players. With the most common group setup being 8 DPS, 2 Magic-based Healers, and 2 Tanks, there is a 83% chance that any 13th target will remove the buff from a player character that benefits from having it, either through increased damage or heal strength.

This has been a problem ever since the set was introduced with the Imperial City update. You can even limit your own ability to buff your allies!

4/6 effects out just on my Daedra, you can't even finish buffing your 4man dungeon like this. What if I had worn a monster set to get another one?

I've heard that allied NPC's are deprioritized vs allied players to recieve the set effect as of this PTS version, and if it's true that's a step in the right direction. It would remain very easy, though, to heal 5 people and 1 Shade/ Daedra / Wolf/ Spider / whatever else with the first cast of Combat Prayer or Healing Springs, buff an NPC with it, and then not be able to buff a player standing next to them for the next 10 seconds. Just because you missed. That possibility, frankly, sucks.

It would be great to not have to worry about it. Can SPC to NPC's be disabled?

AdamBourke

How do you get 4 Daedra? I thought the max was 3?

• Twilight
• Scamp/Clannfear
• Atronach

????

Erasure

AdamBourke wrote: »

How do you get 4 Daedra? I thought the max was 3?????

Maw of the Infernal, Shadowrend, or other sets. They're not popular options, as the damage granted is uniformly lackluster, but that's a different topic

deleted201022-005645

Erasure

benjamindjb wrote: »

That's... New...

BlazingDynamo

Would be nice if the NB ability dark shades didn't steal buffs too..

Erasure

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

Would be nice if the NB ability dark shades didn't steal buffs too..

Right? And wolves, and Spiderlings, and... I wonder if Chokethorns and Dwemer Spiders/Spheres do too? I'll have to check.

Here's a parse with the Storm Atronach used; It can grant higher single-target than Meteor when combined with Prey, even when you're by yourself. If it's synergized, it's even better. Clearly not for group pulls, though. Taking up 3 SPC charges is an endgame spec!

Foxic

I've played a summoner character in every mmo I've ever played except eso pve. My love of summons cannot make up for their performance in eso.

I 100% agree with you that pets should not steal raid buffs. Because as they sit right now, you can match a meta sorcs dps but you're stealing dps from the rest of your group and the pets die all the time. Not to mention they get targeted by some boss mechanics like the warriors shield throw.

What do your bars look like if you don't mind me asking

Foxic

Sorry for double post. But I want to add, I was getting very similar dps just messing around with my pet while still using spellweave, and infallible(minor slayer doesn't work on test dummies). While I have always been a fan of necropotence, I don't know if it would be worth using on a build with only a familiar

Akimbro

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Sorry for double post. But I want to add, I was getting very similar dps just messing around with my pet while still using spellweave, and infallible(minor slayer doesn't work on test dummies). While I have always been a fan of necropotence, I don't know if it would be worth using on a build with only a familiar

Yeah I believe there will be a trade-off there. Necro will buff your pet(s) more but Spellweave will buff yourself more.

Izaki

Pet sorcs new pve meta?

Ankael07

benjamindjb wrote: »

Bloody insects man... so many times they get inbetween me and a boss and sacrifice themselves heroicly.

flizomica

bump for NERDS

flizomica

omg hai murle btw

i miss u

Inig0

wow if only zos could see this and fix the way buffs get applied and to what!!!!!!!

flizomica

"v16"

wow ur so like 4 patches ago

Erasure

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Because as they sit right now, you can match a meta sorcs dps but you're stealing dps from the rest of your group and the pets die all the time. Not to mention they get targeted by some boss mechanics like the warriors shield throw.

What do your bars look like if you don't mind me asking

Yep, that's the crux of it. Might be able to gain damage and play a different build, but it costs the people around you. Warrior targeting can at least be mitigated by managing where your pets stand. Mage Lightning is a little more complex, but can also be managed... Thank god neither Zhaj'hassa nor Rakkhat can target them for curses!

My bars were pretty standard, FP/Frags/Curse/Pet/Bound Armor front, LL/WoE/Ele Drain/Pet BA back, Shooting Star/Atronach on both bars depending on which parse it was.

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

Sorry for double post. But I want to add, I was getting very similar dps just messing around with my pet while still using spellweave, and infallible(minor slayer doesn't work on test dummies). While I have always been a fan of necropotence, I don't know if it would be worth using on a build with only a familiar

This is true, though I wanted to highlight that the robes that the build most clearly calls for are a good option

Inig0 wrote: »

wow if only zos could see this and fix the way buffs get applied and to what!!!!!!!

Yep, good point. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Could SPC targetting be given some attention? This feels like a facet of the game which may have been overlooked, but if it were corrected it would enable an entire build for endgame PvE. That's worth something, right?

Slakk

I would love to say that this patch might have been the one to make pets exist in PvE and not be laughed at, but only displeased to see this is still happening.

I know I had made a couple posts about this in the past, but "pet build" is such a fun discussion among the minmaxers.
The volatile familiar's shock pulsing has had great potential since they revamped him, and has continued to get held back by most of the issues with pets that have been parroted on these forums over and over and over.

This patch brings some juicy buffs to the pets yet again, and this time might have been the one to have pets exist in dungeons and not be laughed at.
And yet, the stealing of SPC has still not been looked at.

I also really want to see this resolved by the time this goes live. If this gets fixed, pets may finally exist in some sorc pve builds without angering people.

Erasure

Slakk wrote: »

I would love to say that this patch might have been the one to make pets exist in PvE and not be laughed at, but only displeased to see this is still happening.

I know I had made a couple posts about this in the past, but "pet build" is such a fun discussion among the minmaxers.
The volatile familiar's shock pulsing has had great potential since they revamped him, and has continued to get held back by most of the issues with pets that have been parroted on these forums over and over and over.

This patch brings some juicy buffs to the pets yet again, and this time might have been the one to have pets exist in dungeons and not be laughed at.
And yet, the stealing of SPC has still not been looked at.

I also really want to see this resolved by the time this goes live. If this gets fixed, pets may finally exist in some sorc pve builds without angering people.

It's tantalizing, how close this PTS comes to making the spec a solid choice. I hope that there isn't some sort of hard-coded reason that they must be valid targets for anything that can hit a friendly character.

For clarity, disabling all bonuses to allied NPC's isn't the goal, but only those which are useless to them. Combat Prayer (Minor Berzerk) for instance works exactly as described, and there are a few summons that you might even want to use it on, like the Greater Storm Atronach. Barrier or other ward abilities would be better to land on a player, but I believe they're already prioritized to do so when possible.

Can Summons receive Transmutation? I'll have to check. Hope not.

Transairion

Sorry to say but this post is just misinformation.


Summons don't steal raid buffs: in a group setting the only time summons will receive a buff are if no player targets are in range to receive it or the amount of buff targets exceed the amount of players present.

Warhorn, for example: in a Dungeon setting, Warhorn will buff all players AND all summons because it can hit 12 targets and a Dungeon is 4 player content. In a Trial, Warhorn will hit 12 player targets and IGNORE any summons as they are prioritized behind players: the only time Warhorn will buff a summon during a Trial is if a player is dead, or completely out of range of Warhorn. The buff is not "stolen", it literally had no other targets.

SPC then. SPC hits 6 targets (I believe?), and in a Trial setting you'll be AOE healing all over the place with masses of players everywhere. The only time you'll see SPC on summons if a particular AOE heal hits less than 6 players, and a summon happens to be there. The other players who don't get buffed aren't being "robbed", they weren't in range or healed to begin with. As far as I understand SPC, it's also only a 50% chance so 5 players + summon could all be healed and only the summon receives the buff because only the summon got a "lucky RNG roll", in a very unlikely scenario... and there's nothing preventing SPC from firing off again on the next heal and applying to players instead.

Players far better at the game than me have confirmed this for quite a while, here's (a) source:

cpuScientist wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

sirtadzio wrote: »

Can we verify that as of right now sorc pets are soaking up 6 target raid buffs? I was under the impression they did, but someone in the NightBlade post, in regards to shades, stated that he has tested and confirmed that while they can receive the buffs, they are last priority and only receive them if there aren't enough actual player targets available/eligible for the buff.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

This needs to be looked into.

I have tested it, they do get the buffs but they are prioritized after players so they will never EVER steal a buff. I have tested it thoroughly with both magblade and magsorc pets. I even tested proximity in terms of combat prayer if they were closer or further away from the caster than the 6th player. It did not matter. It is working perfectly which amazed us. So pets are fine for PvE.

So just to reiterate they are getting the buffs but not stealing them. If they got it then less than 6 players were present, OR other players were not in range.

As a pet-build user myself (it's my main build and super fun, IMO) I can also confirm from my personal experience, my summons get buffs in Dungeons all the time because it's 4 player content and most of the buffs can hit 6 or more players, so they'll go to summons. In Trials, my summons hardly ever end up with buffs because of the 12 players present most of the time (sections where the group splits up are the exception), though they occasionally get buffed when people die. For the most part in Trials they're buffless though and don't "steal" anything despite being in the thick of it.

They also don't "steal aggro" or taunt either, the Clanferr specifically only taunts if the summoner is the only player on the threat table and the Storm Antronach hasn't been able to taunt since shortly after the game's release.



TLDR: Summons stealing raid buffs is a myth. Summons only receive buffs if there's no players in range to receive it instead, or the number of buffs going out exceeds players present. Players have buff priority, summons cannot steal buffs they will only take buffs that would otherwise go to no-one.

Erasure

Transairion wrote: »

Sorry to say but this post is just misinformation.
TLDR: Summons stealing raid buffs is a myth. Summons only receive buffs if there's no players in range to receive it instead, or the number of buffs going out exceeds players present. Players have buff priority, summons cannot steal buffs they will only take buffs that would otherwise go to no-one.

Did you read the final paragraph?

Erasure wrote: »

I've heard that allied NPC's are deprioritized vs allied players to recieve the set effect as of this PTS version, and if it's true that's a step in the right direction. It would remain very easy, though, to heal 5 people and 1 Shade/ Daedra / Wolf/ Spider / whatever else with the first cast of Combat Prayer or Healing Springs, buff an NPC with it, and then not be able to buff a player standing next to them for the next 10 seconds. Just because you missed. That possibility, frankly, sucks.

It would be great to not have to worry about it. Can SPC to NPC's be disabled?

I recognize that in a 7+ target situation, with at least 6 being players, any outgoing heal will buff the players. That is an improvement over live.

The remaining issue is exactly what you stated in your third paragraph. I'm not sure how you define rob or steal for this, but effects going to waste for 10 seconds at a time due to luck is not ideal. I've run the Scamp in vet Trials as well when score isn't the focus, it's very fun. And, I see my scamp running around with blue under his feet all. The. Time. It's weird for it to not happen. Hopefully it'll be less in February, but less isn't never.

Just off the top of my head, accidentally buffing an NPC would be likely to happen at any boss with a melee stack and room/reason for the ranged players to back up, such as Zhaj'hassa, The Mage, The Twins, Ra Kotu... I can think of ways to mitigate the chance of it happening, as I'm sure you can as well. It's not something a healer should have to worry about, though. Any self-respecting group would simply ask their Sorcerers or Nightblades to run a different setup.

There is no reason for this buff to apply to entities which gain no benefit from it, no matter how improbable the situation may be.

Transairion

I recognize that in a 7+ target situation, with at least 6 being players, any outgoing heal will buff the players. That is an improvement over live.

Er, I was under the impression this "feature" has been on live since forever. It's not in any of the PTS patchnotes as something new and upcoming.

The remaining issue is exactly what you stated in your third paragraph. I'm not sure how you define rob or steal for this, but effects going to waste for 10 seconds at a time due to luck is not ideal. I've run the Scamp in vet Trials as well when score isn't the focus, it's very fun. And, I see my scamp running around with blue under his feet all. The. Time. It's weird for it to not happen. Hopefully it'll be less in February, but less isn't never.

Whether the pet is present or not is irrelevant, since the only time they get buffed is when it won't hit a player anyway. That is, instead of the effect hitting nothing and being wasted, it goes to a pet/summon. Some buffs they can use, others they can't.

Is there any buff outside Warhorn where you if you "waste it" on a pet you can't just try and reapply it anyway? Spamming heals as a healer does means if a summon is present, EVENTUALLY less than 6 players will be hit by a heal and they'll gain the SPC buff. Them having the buff doesn't lock you out of applying the buff to other players (as far as I've seen).

"Wasting" a buff on a pet/summon is no different to wasting it hitting empty air, except other players can see what you "did wrong".

Just off the top of my head, accidentally buffing an NPC would be likely to happen at any boss with a melee stack and room/reason for the ranged players to back up, such as Zhaj'hassa, The Mage, The Twins, Ra Kotu... I can think of ways to mitigate the chance of it happening, as I'm sure you can as well. It's not something a healer should have to worry about, though. Any self-respecting group would simply ask their Sorcerers or Nightblades to run a different setup.

The negative effect of an NPC getting buffed is... what exactly? They can't take effects at all if they are enough valid player targets, so if SPC goes off while 4 players are huddled in a corner and 2 pets take the buffs after the 4 players... is there a downside to this? Will SPC now refuse to fire upon your next heals?

Serious question, I don't know of any buff effects where hitting the "wrong target" prevents you from applying it again. And since pets/summons don't take buffs if there ARE "correct targets" present... what does it matter? In the worst case scenario, a pet/summon gains only the visual effect of the buff since it can't use the combat effect. There were not enough players to take said buff anyway, so why is a summon/pet somehow worse than the effect just failing?

Again, pets only receive buffs if they're aren't enough players in range. If the pets weren't present, there STILL wouldn't be enough players in range. Instead of something being buffed, nothing would be buffed.

There is no reason for this buff to apply to entities which gain no benefit from it, no matter how improbable the situation may be.

But some of the buffs effects DO apply. Not all of them, but I was under the impression Warhorn does to some degree. Summons/pets are coded as NPC's, and you can run around buffing friendly NPC's in the world so I'm not sure there's a simple on/off switch and NPC coding would have be rewritten to not allow ANY friendly NPC buffing (that's probably not going to happen).

Namarkas

Transairion wrote: »

Serious question, I don't know of any buff effects where hitting the "wrong target" prevents you from applying it again. And since pets/summons don't take buffs if there ARE "correct targets" present... what does it matter? In the worst case scenario, a pet/summon gains only the visual effect of the buff since it can't use the combat effect. There were not enough players to take said buff anyway, so why is a summon/pet somehow worse than the effect just failing?

I don't have much experience with healing pets, however, as far as I know if I buff a player with SPC, I am UNABLE to reapply it on said player for the duration of the buff. I can spam as many heals as I want, the buff tracker won't reset, and the visual effect syncs with the buff tracker. I don't know if I can apply a 7th buff to a different player, and take it away from somebody else, but I don't think so. Meaning 3 cases:
-If I buff a pet, because there were not enough players, and can't reapply it, the pet "stole" the buff for 10 seconds, and might do so again.
-If I am able to reapply it to the 7th player (which I seriously doubt) and take it away from somebody else, then I can take it away from a pet to a player. But what stops the AI to give an SPC proc to a pet that was previously on a player, when I heal a pet and there are less than 6 ppl?
-The game is intelligent enough to take the SPC proc from a pet and gives it to a player, but not the other way around. Very unlikely in my opinion.

Transairion

I don't have much experience with healing pets, however, as far as I know if I buff a player with SPC, I am UNABLE to reapply it on said player for the duration of the buff. I can spam as many heals as I want, the buff tracker won't reset, and the visual effect syncs with the buff tracker. I don't know if I can apply a 7th buff to a different player, and take it away from somebody else, but I don't think so. Meaning 3 cases:
-If I buff a pet, because there were not enough players, and can't reapply it, the pet "stole" the buff for 10 seconds, and might do so again.
-If I am able to reapply it to the 7th player (which I seriously doubt) and take it away from somebody else, then I can take it away from a pet to a player. But what stops the AI to give an SPC proc to a pet that was previously on a player, when I heal a pet and there are less than 6 ppl?
-The game is intelligent enough to take the SPC proc from a pet and gives it to a player, but not the other way around. Very unlikely in my opinion.

From what I've gathered, SPC has a limit of 6 affected at a time: this is why Trials like to take two SPC users, since one alone can't buff all 12 at once. Being unable to refresh the buff on a player who already has the buff is one thing (I was under the impression it worked this way, you can apply up to 6 targets but can't refresh duration), but being unable to apply the buff at all anymore until it times out on the current targets is another can of worms. If it's the latter, then yes I could see how a pet taking the buff is undesirable... but in that case, you already "missed" all valid targets anyway.

For the pet to ALWAYS have the buff and a player always "missing out" someone has to be doing something wrong. In a Trial setting this should never really happen, not with 12 SPC buffs going out (2x healers usually) and 12 players getting healed. For most Trial encounters, the summons don't really race around the map going through 5 different heal/buff pools... they're sat in one place, Twilight especially as far from the action as possible. Scamp for example will be on bosses kneecaps, and only get buffed if there's not 5 other players with the tank.



On a tangent now but I also just noticed this:

You've done it, you've finally created a strong Summoner DPS

Summoner DPS has barely changed, being both buffed (Storm Antronach DPS buff) and nerfed (Armor-based summons can no longer crit): Scamp, Matriach, Daedric Prey etc haven't had any changes to their damage, if they were considered weak DPS a patch ago they'll be considered weak DPS after this patch too.

Most of the changes to Daedric Summoning on PTS so far are summon health/resist buffs.

dpencil

Erasure wrote: »

My bars were pretty standard, FP/Frags/Curse/Pet/Bound Armor front, LL/WoE/Ele Drain/Pet BA back, Shooting Star/Atronach on both bars depending on which parse it is.

Just so I'm clear, this setup has no healing or shields at all. I guess that would be ok in an amazing trials group with awesome healers. Personally, I think its too risky. You could at least have Overload on one bar and use it to pop Power Surge for the crit heals.

Also, did you try a parse with the Twilight Matriarch instead of Bound Armor? In my testing, it seemed the cumulative impact of the Twilight zaps outperformed the increased magicka from Bound Armor. But then my parses were around 30k either way, not 40k.

Edit: And did you try Thunderous Rage? I think it outperforms both Shooting Star and the Storm Atro.

Erasure

Transairion wrote: »

Er, I was under the impression this "feature" has been on live since forever. It's not in any of the PTS patchnotes as something new and upcoming.

If so, that's news to me. The frequency that I see my familiar buffed on live makes me doubt it, but I'll test it and amend my statement if true.

Transairion wrote: »

Whether the pet is present or not is irrelevant, since the only time they get buffed is when it won't hit a player anyway. That is, instead of the effect hitting nothing and being wasted, it goes to a pet/summon. Some buffs they can use, others they can't.

Is there any buff outside Warhorn where you if you "waste it" on a pet you can't just try and reapply it anyway? Spamming heals as a healer does means if a summon is present, EVENTUALLY less than 6 players will be hit by a heal and they'll gain the SPC buff. Them having the buff doesn't lock you out of applying the buff to other players (as far as I've seen).

"Wasting" a buff on a pet/summon is no different to wasting it hitting empty air, except other players can see what you "did wrong".

The negative effect of an NPC getting buffed is... what exactly? They can't take effects at all if they are enough valid player targets, so if SPC goes off while 4 players are huddled in a corner and 2 pets take the buffs after the 4 players... is there a downside to this? Will SPC now refuse to fire upon your next heals?

Serious question, I don't know of any buff effects where hitting the "wrong target" prevents you from applying it again. And since pets/summons don't take buffs if there ARE "correct targets" present... what does it matter? In the worst case scenario, a pet/summon gains only the visual effect of the buff since it can't use the combat effect. There were not enough players to take said buff anyway, so why is a summon/pet somehow worse than the effect just failing?

Yes. SPC buffs a target for 10 seconds, and has 6 max targets from one person at one time. If a buff is out on an NPC and you have 6 buffs out including it, a sixth player can not be buffed until it runs out and you roll the dice again. In your 'nothing would be buffed' scenario, a player would have been valid to be buffed with the next cast, but now is not.

Transairion wrote: »

But some of the buffs effects DO apply. Not all of them, but I was under the impression Warhorn does to some degree. Summons/pets are coded as NPC's, and you can run around buffing friendly NPC's in the world so I'm not sure there's a simple on/off switch and NPC coding would have be rewritten to not allow ANY friendly NPC buffing (that's probably not going to happen).

Yes, and though you keep bringing it up, not once in my post have I mentioned Warhorn. That skill does not have issues with NPC's in 12 man content, and is not the focus of this topic. I assume that Major Force does increase their personal strike damage, and of course it raises the caster's active Magicka and Force to empower them as well. The focus of this request is for SPC, an effect which grants NPC's stats they do not benefit from, to be disabled.

Transairion wrote: »

On a tangent now but I also just noticed this:

You've done it, you've finally created a strong Summoner DPS

Summoner DPS has barely changed, being both buffed (Storm Antronach DPS buff) and nerfed (Armor-based summons can no longer crit): Scamp, Matriach, Daedric Prey etc haven't had any changes to their damage, if they were considered weak DPS a patch ago they'll be considered weak DPS after this patch too.

Most of the changes to Daedric Summoning on PTS so far are summon health/resist buffs.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Summon Volatile Familiar (Summon Unstable Familiar morph):

Increased the duration of this pet’s special ability to 8 seconds from 4 seconds, causing it to pulse for two extra ticks of damage.
Fixed an issue where the damage from this morph’s special ability was not being increased by Daedric Prey.

Prey newly applying to the Volatile Familiar Pulse makes the build. Where did you think those 19k Pulses were coming from?

dpencil wrote: »

Erasure wrote: »

My bars were pretty standard, FP/Frags/Curse/Pet/Bound Armor front, LL/WoE/Ele Drain/Pet BA back, Shooting Star/Atronach on both bars depending on which parse it is.

Just so I'm clear, this setup has no healing or shields at all. I guess that would be ok in an amazing trials group with awesome healers. Personally, I think its too risky. You could at least have Overload on one bar and use it to pop Power Surge for the crit heals.

Also, did you try a parse with the Twilight Matriarch instead of Bound Armor? In my testing, it seemed the cumulative impact of the Twilight zaps outperformed the increased magicka from Bound Armor. But then my parses were around 30k either way, not 40k.

Edit: And did you try Thunderous Rage? I think it outperforms both Shooting Star and the Storm Atro.

Correct, but it does have a flex slot occupied by Ele Drain, and an underutilized ultimate slot, which you rightfully suggest may be used as a buff bar with overload in short to medium fights. In hardmode trials, that flex slot could be filled by Surge, a Ward of some kind, or an execute. I'd suggest Empowered Ward personally, as in Necropotence you'll have over 50k magic to grant it strength, and it allows you to apply minor magic regen to the group. I haven't tried Thunderous yet, I'll give it a go this evening

dpencil

@Erasure
So I tried using your load out, the same in every regard except I have all Divines Necropotence pieces. Also, I switched out Bound Aegis for the Twilight Matriarch and Ice Comet for Thunderous Rage. With your original setup I was only getting 36k.

Erasure

dpencil wrote: »

@Erasure
So I tried using your load out, the same in every regard except I have all Divines Necropotence pieces. Also, I switched out Bound Aegis for the Twilight Matriarch and Ice Comet for Thunderous Rage. With your original setup I was only getting 36k.

Nice! I'll have to try putting out the Matriarch, I admit that I'm a bit habituated to the idea of using a % Magic toggle.

FLambda

Erasure wrote: »

benjamindjb wrote: »

That's... New...

It took me a moment to realize what was wrong.... Oh, dear. That truly is horrible.

Domander

I would say it would be much better to prioritize players before summons, but I'd still like it to work on summons.

Erasure

Domander wrote: »

I would say it would be much better to prioritize players before summons, but I'd still like it to work on summons.

So, after some experimentation with the Twilight, I'd have to agree that it's worth using for Single-target parses, equal or slightly better to wearing a toggle. Color me surprised. I still wouldn't use as a pure DPS when likely to encounter AoE, as it only shoots one thing at a time. One situation I *can* imagine it being useful in is mixed groups/ pickup runs, where having our class's Breath of Life answer available might save distracted healers some stress.


As on Live, I would not recommend having the Matriarch attack things while in a true healer spec; it tends to grab aggro from trash and get itself killed/ hold things away from the group while you aren't looking.

But hey, you can pull 40k+ in a pure summoner spec next update! 3/3 Pet builds are a go!

And so, Sorcerers taking up 4 SPC charges are a go. No bueno!