The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
What will you do with your Sorc after update 13?
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheeses
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.Edited by Minalan on January 22, 2017 5:08PM1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 5:28PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 504 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheeses
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.Edited by Minalan on January 22, 2017 5:35PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 5:47PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheeses
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits?
You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down, because he's collapsing your stack almost as fast as you can cast them. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
Edited by Minalan on January 22, 2017 5:56PM1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits? You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
I´ve still yet to see a magica player put out ~12k constant noncrit dps that is needed to break me stacking shields. Way more if i ever drop health.
Honestly point me the direction of magica DKs still slotting reflect for open world cyrodiil. I don´t know a single one atm.
You can use my own words against me as much as you want. I´m just calling you out trying to put me out of context in the attempt to put a statement into my mouth i´ve never made.
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheeses
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits? You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
I´ve still yet to see a magica player put out ~12k constant noncrit dps that is needed to break me stacking shields. Way more if i ever drop health.
Honestly point me the direction of magica DKs still slotting reflect for open world cyrodiil. I don´t know a single one atm.
You can use my own words against me as much as you want. I´m just calling you out trying to put me out of context in the attempt to put a statement into my mouth i´ve never made.
1. I don't use DOTs, but I'd time a curse/frag together for 12K non-crit easy, then hit you with another proc frag or meteor immediately when you're on the ground with one shield down. But hey, you can kill me 1v1 EASY with one shield.
2. I play a magicka sorc, it seems like just about every DK on NA uses reflect, including stamina ones. I don't know what game you're playing, honestly. It seriously hurts your credibility when you say 'nobody uses it in open PVP'
3. I'm just using all of the gems you keep handing me. It's not my fault.Edited by Minalan on January 22, 2017 6:16PM1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits? You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
I´ve still yet to see a magica player put out ~12k constant noncrit dps that is needed to break me stacking shields. Way more if i ever drop health.
Honestly point me the direction of magica DKs still slotting reflect for open world cyrodiil. I don´t know a single one atm.
You can use my own words against me as much as you want. I´m just calling you out trying to put me out of context in the attempt to put a statement into my mouth i´ve never made.
1. I don't use DOTs, but I'd time a curse/frag together for 12K non-crit easy, then hit you with another proc frag or meteor immediately when you're on the ground with one shield down. But hey, you can kill me 1v1 EASY with one shield.
2. I play a magicka sorc, it seems like just about every DK on NA uses reflect, including stamina ones. I don't know what game you're playing, honestly. It seriously hurtx your credibility when you say 'nobody uses it in open PVP'
3. I'm just using all of the gems you keep handing me. It's not my fault.
1. DPS =/= one burst combo (again putting things out of context here). You need to break 24k with only two shields up to even reach hp. I shield for 12k dmg a second. Which a dot build needs to break (edit: you do realise that starting on this page i´m talking from the point of actually stacking harness and hardened do you?)
2. Nobody worth mentioning does anymore on EU because the skill is bugged to hell and back resulting in being more of a liability instead of a defense mechanism.
Please do point out where i´m handing you a gem without you putting what i´ve said out of context. I´m waiting.Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 6:29PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheeses
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits? You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
I´ve still yet to see a magica player put out ~12k constant noncrit dps that is needed to break me stacking shields. Way more if i ever drop health.
Honestly point me the direction of magica DKs still slotting reflect for open world cyrodiil. I don´t know a single one atm.
You can use my own words against me as much as you want. I´m just calling you out trying to put me out of context in the attempt to put a statement into my mouth i´ve never made.
1. I don't use DOTs, but I'd time a curse/frag together for 12K non-crit easy, then hit you with another proc frag or meteor immediately when you're on the ground with one shield down. But hey, you can kill me 1v1 EASY with one shield.
2. I play a magicka sorc, it seems like just about every DK on NA uses reflect, including stamina ones. I don't know what game you're playing, honestly. It seriously hurtx your credibility when you say 'nobody uses it in open PVP'
3. I'm just using all of the gems you keep handing me. It's not my fault.
1. DPS =/= one burst combo (again putting things out of context here). You need to break 24k with only two shields up to even reach hp. I shield for 12k dmg a second. Which a dot build needs to break.
2. Nobody worth mentioning does anymore on EU because the skill is bugged to hell and back resulting in being more of a liability instead of a defense mechanism.
Please do point out where i´m handing you a gem without you putting what i´ve said out of context. I´m waiting.
1. Magicka might not be able to pull off 12K DPS, but stam can. Easily. Magicka can pull off spike burst that high, and that's all they need. One or two seconds with those shields down.
2. You're not keeping that stack up permanently. If someone does that to me I back bar swap and poison their ass with Magicka cost increase. It puts a stop to that nonsense in ten seconds or less.
It has counterplay. Also, are you SURE you know how shield stacks work? Which shield gets hit when which is on top, and procs what effects?
PS: Still laughing hard about DK's not using reflect. I can't stop! Edited by Minalan on January 22, 2017 6:43PM1 -
Jawasa✭✭✭Minala you are embarrassing yourself. Cant not comment after the dk wings comment. Wings are only used in duels pretty much atm.3
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits? You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
I´ve still yet to see a magica player put out ~12k constant noncrit dps that is needed to break me stacking shields. Way more if i ever drop health.
Honestly point me the direction of magica DKs still slotting reflect for open world cyrodiil. I don´t know a single one atm.
You can use my own words against me as much as you want. I´m just calling you out trying to put me out of context in the attempt to put a statement into my mouth i´ve never made.
1. I don't use DOTs, but I'd time a curse/frag together for 12K non-crit easy, then hit you with another proc frag or meteor immediately when you're on the ground with one shield down. But hey, you can kill me 1v1 EASY with one shield.
2. I play a magicka sorc, it seems like just about every DK on NA uses reflect, including stamina ones. I don't know what game you're playing, honestly. It seriously hurtx your credibility when you say 'nobody uses it in open PVP'
3. I'm just using all of the gems you keep handing me. It's not my fault.
1. DPS =/= one burst combo (again putting things out of context here). You need to break 24k with only two shields up to even reach hp. I shield for 12k dmg a second. Which a dot build needs to break.
2. Nobody worth mentioning does anymore on EU because the skill is bugged to hell and back resulting in being more of a liability instead of a defense mechanism.
Please do point out where i´m handing you a gem without you putting what i´ve said out of context. I´m waiting.
1. Magicka might not be able to pull off 12K DPS, but stam can. Easily. Magicka can pull off spike burst that high, and that's all they need. One or two seconds with those shields down.
2. You're not keeping that stack up permanently. If someone does that to me I back bar swap and poison their ass with Magicka cost increase. It puts a stop to that nonsense in ten seconds or less.
It has counterplay.
PS: Still laughing hard about DK's not using reflect. I can't stop!
1. Stam was explicitly excluded from the arguement. The counterplay to stamina dw dotbuilds are mines and streak.
2. That´s the point. You need only 1000 magica regen to stack permanently. No build only has 1000 magica regen (atleast most don´t) - so even when poisoned any half devent build can keep shielding (i know mine can if not poisoned by multiple people). Also atleast on EU poisons are not used in the dueling community afaik. In open world people just walk around a tree jumping.
Just shows how different the servers are.
Etaniel is probably one of the handful of really good magica DKs left showcasing gameplay freequently with videos from the EU server. You won´t see reflect on his bars and most others. I can´t really think of even one using it.
Edit: I´ve just done the math for harness with my actual dueling build (not simply slotting it on my open world one). Harness will give me 2220 magica back when dotted in that setup. Hardened costs me 2367 magica. For a full shieldstack when attacked with a magica dot it will cost 147 magica every 2s to keep that stack active. Even with 100% uptime of costincrease i´ll never ever run out.
Every magica build apart from a sorc not using entropy will trigger that permanently by the way.
I´m also pretty sure that builds utilizing even more max magica will get into the territory of their shieldstack (meaning hardened + harness) being free to cast when dotted with magic dmg (they will even gain magica from stacking shields against magica opponents - yup casting harness + hardened will GIVE them magica).Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 7:02PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheeses
And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits? You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
I´ve still yet to see a magica player put out ~12k constant noncrit dps that is needed to break me stacking shields. Way more if i ever drop health.
Honestly point me the direction of magica DKs still slotting reflect for open world cyrodiil. I don´t know a single one atm.
You can use my own words against me as much as you want. I´m just calling you out trying to put me out of context in the attempt to put a statement into my mouth i´ve never made.
1. I don't use DOTs, but I'd time a curse/frag together for 12K non-crit easy, then hit you with another proc frag or meteor immediately when you're on the ground with one shield down. But hey, you can kill me 1v1 EASY with one shield.
2. I play a magicka sorc, it seems like just about every DK on NA uses reflect, including stamina ones. I don't know what game you're playing, honestly. It seriously hurtx your credibility when you say 'nobody uses it in open PVP'
3. I'm just using all of the gems you keep handing me. It's not my fault.
1. DPS =/= one burst combo (again putting things out of context here). You need to break 24k with only two shields up to even reach hp. I shield for 12k dmg a second. Which a dot build needs to break.
2. Nobody worth mentioning does anymore on EU because the skill is bugged to hell and back resulting in being more of a liability instead of a defense mechanism.
Please do point out where i´m handing you a gem without you putting what i´ve said out of context. I´m waiting.
1. Magicka might not be able to pull off 12K DPS, but stam can. Easily. Magicka can pull off spike burst that high, and that's all they need. One or two seconds with those shields down.
2. You're not keeping that stack up permanently. If someone does that to me I back bar swap and poison their ass with Magicka cost increase. It puts a stop to that nonsense in ten seconds or less.
It has counterplay.
PS: Still laughing hard about DK's not using reflect. I can't stop!
1. Stam was explicitly excluded from the arguement. The counterplay to stamina dw dotbuilds are mines and streak.
2. That´s the point. You need only 1000 magica regen to stack permanently. No build only has 1000 magica regen (atleast most don´t) - so even when poisoned any half devent build can keep shielding (i know mine can if not poisoned by multiple people). Also atleast on EU poisons are not used in the dueling community afaik. In open world people just walk around a tree jumping.
Just shows how different the servers are.
Etaniel is probably one of the handful of really good magica DKs left showcasing gameplay freequently with videos from the EU server. You won´t see reflect on his bars and most others. I can´t really think of even one using it.
Edit: I´ve just done the math for harness with my actual dueling build (not simply slotting it on my open world one). Harness will give me 2220 magica back when dotted in that setup. Hardened costs me 2367 magica. For a full shieldstack when attacked with a magica dot it will cost 147 magica every 2s to keep that stack active. Even with 100% uptime of costincrease i´ll never ever run out.
Every magica build apart from a sorc not using entropy will trigger that permanently by the way.
I´m also pretty sure that builds utilizing even more max magica will get into the territory of their shieldstack (meaning hardened + harness) being free to cast when dotted with magic dmg (they will even gain magica from stacking shields against magica opponents - yup casting harness + hardened will GIVE them magica).
Mines are nice, but they aren't nearly enough against a tanky stamina player. Most HA stam builds I see just plough through one or two of them like they aren't there. It comes down to having shields up to survive after you get knocked down.
Streak? That's no counter to gap closing stam players with the increasing cost of it. Gap close/HA/dizzy combo lands all at once. Follow by a dawnbreaker. GG if you have one shield. Or replace that with HA, surprise attack, viper, velidreth.
All your argument shows is how bad a Magicka DOT is against harness. I'd be all right if they removed the magicka return ticks entirely, I don't even use the harness morph. You still haven't addressed the cast time, the short duration, or the complete lack of offense when you put them up.
1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheesesMinala you are embarrassing yourself. Cant not comment after the dk wings comment. Wings are only used in duels pretty much atm.
GFY. They're used plenty outside of duels in open PVP. Go check out the PTS wings thread, there are dozens of good players there complaining (rightfully) about force pulse going through wings.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherAll your argument shows is how bad a Magicka DOT is against harness. I'd be all right if they removed the magicka return ticks entirely, I don't even use the harness morph. You still haven't addressed the cast time, the short duration, or the complete lack of offense when you put them up.
Every magica build is bad against hardened + harness stack. Harness return proccs when you attack hardened ward aswell. You will always get the full return while stacking.
My argument was never about offense. It´s about building near impenetrable defense when going fully defensive - that´s also free to cast against every magica spec (and even infinetly sustainable when poisoned).<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Jawasa✭✭✭The more i read from you the more i see a rude drama queen. Also mines are super strong just take a look at a video with a good magica sorc like faso that you respect.1
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheesesThe more i read from you the more i see a rude drama queen. Also mines are super strong just take a look at a video with a good magica sorc like faso that you respect.
Obviously you've never used them or you would know that any vampire just rolls around them, taking them all out in mist form.
Mines are very expensive, there's no way you're going to keep recasting that. There's no morph that returns magicka when someone steps on your mines.
Stam builds can walk over them mostly safe with block up.
Drama queen? Rude? No more than you are. Did you read your first post?All your argument shows is how bad a Magicka DOT is against harness. I'd be all right if they removed the magicka return ticks entirely, I don't even use the harness morph. You still haven't addressed the cast time, the short duration, or the complete lack of offense when you put them up.
Every magica build is bad against hardened + harness stack. Harness return proccs when you attack hardened ward aswell. You will always get the full return while stacking.
My argument was never about offense. It´s about building near impenetrable defense when going fully defensive - that´s also free to cast against every magica spec (and even infinetly sustainable when poisoned).
Shields don't grant immunity to CC. A good magicka player will catch you on the ground or feared without shields. Timing is as important as lining up burst.
I posted a duel video where Alex tears other sorcs to shreds, most of them stacking. I'm sure all that 'going defensive' saved them right? Nope.
1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherShields don't grant immunity to CC. A good magicka player will catch you on the ground or feared without shields. Timing is as important as lining up burst.
I posted a duel video where Alex tears other sorcs to shreds, most of them stacking. I'm sure all that 'going defensive' saved them right? Nope.
Most (edit: just unlucky on the fights i watched) of the duels end with a bugged meteor cc (blocked meteor knocking them up anyway - and knockup/back ccs take longer to break bc of wonky animations).
I´ve also fought all of the magica sorcs in the video and beaten them (with one shield). Which makes them terrible players if you go by your own argument of the class being unplayable with only one shield.
Disclaimer: They are not. But they´re also not trolling. They actively try to fight back and loose because of that. You can perfectly kill a doublestacking sorc who also actively tries to kill you - because that creates room for mistakes.
None of them actually tried to stay alive as the sole purpose. They all were cought in CC while trying to counterpressure mage (mostly misjudging what it will take for them to recover from a meteor).Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 10:05PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheesesShields don't grant immunity to CC. A good magicka player will catch you on the ground or feared without shields. Timing is as important as lining up burst.
I posted a duel video where Alex tears other sorcs to shreds, most of them stacking. I'm sure all that 'going defensive' saved them right? Nope.
Most of the duels end with a bugged meteor cc (blocked meteor knocking them up anyway - and knockup/back ccs take longer to break bc of wonky animations).
I´ve also fought all of the magica sorcs in the video and beaten them (with one shield). Which makes them terrible players if you go by your own argument of the class being unplayable with only one shield.
Disclaimer: They are not. But they´re also not trolling. They actively try to fight back and loose because of that. You can perfectly kill a doublestacking sorc who also actively tries to kill you - because that creates room for mistakes.
None of them actually tried to stay alive as the sole purpose. They all were cought in CC while trying to counterpressure mage.
So... let me get this right. Alex won because he was crutching on a glitched meteor?
I'm just trying to get it right here. The entertainment value is too much.
MDK's don't use wings. Alex crutches on glitched mechanics. And now sorcs only lose duels because they try to fight back.
Come on, keep them coming.
The only argument you've made so far that makes any sense is that harness returns too much magicka. That, it probably does. I still don't think a stack of 20K will return all three in most cases unless the other guy only spams dots and force pulse.1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherShields don't grant immunity to CC. A good magicka player will catch you on the ground or feared without shields. Timing is as important as lining up burst.
I posted a duel video where Alex tears other sorcs to shreds, most of them stacking. I'm sure all that 'going defensive' saved them right? Nope.
Most of the duels end with a bugged meteor cc (blocked meteor knocking them up anyway - and knockup/back ccs take longer to break bc of wonky animations).
I´ve also fought all of the magica sorcs in the video and beaten them (with one shield). Which makes them terrible players if you go by your own argument of the class being unplayable with only one shield.
Disclaimer: They are not. But they´re also not trolling. They actively try to fight back and loose because of that. You can perfectly kill a doublestacking sorc who also actively tries to kill you - because that creates room for mistakes.
None of them actually tried to stay alive as the sole purpose. They all were cought in CC while trying to counterpressure mage.
So... let me get this right. Alex won because he was crutching on a glitched meteor?
I'm just trying to get it right here. The entertainment value is too much.
MDK's don't use wings. Alex crutches on glitched mechanics. And now sorcs only lose duels because they try to fight back.
Where did i say he´s crutching on a glitched meteor? Are you on drugs or something? Can you please start taking things as i write them without interpreting whatever helps your point in them - or even worse trying to make it look like i badmouth a player not involved in this discussion?
I have to correct the "most" though. I´ve not watched the whole thing. I´ve noticed it twice in the magsorc fights within the first third of the video (1 time meteor knockup through block - 1 time meteor cc broken fragment ccs through immunity).
The only thing i say is they´re obviously less experienced than mage is.
Yes. Duels end because people try to go offensive and misjudge their position in doing so. They stop casting shields when they should not.
If an opponent just stays shielding completely (and does not fail to break CC for 2 seconds - happens also in the video) that´s an entirely different scenario as an opponent trying to fight back.
I´ve always only talked about going fully defensive. None of the sorcs in the video does that (without failing to break cc).
You still have not disproven my by pointing out any relevant magDK on the server i´m playing that´s using wings open world. As it stands you can either: Prove me wrong or accept my point and be quiet about it. Bringing it up again and again does nothing to help your point (which is anyway?).Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 9:47PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Star in a hit reality TV show starring You, Joe Biden and Jennifer Lawrence about different cheeses1. Words mean things. When you said 'Most of them ended with a bugged meteor CC". You're suggesting that he abused a bug MOST of the time to win.
2. I don't know your EU server, I only know mine, and there are PLENTY that use it. It's an asinine argument to make.1 -
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✭Minala you are embarrassing yourself. Cant not comment after the dk wings comment. Wings are only used in duels pretty much atm.
GFY. They're used plenty outside of duels in open PVP. Go check out the PTS wings thread, there are dozens of good players there complaining (rightfully) about force pulse going through wings.
Are you really going to sit there and claim mSorcs are weak defensively with all the buffs your class received?
You got to be trolling now.Power Wealth And Influence.1 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Minala you are embarrassing yourself. Cant not comment after the dk wings comment. Wings are only used in duels pretty much atm.
That's not true...I see mdk rerolls (bads) using them all the time
Also, I think QAM still uses them on his mdk...I might be wrong thoughEdited by Malamar1229 on January 22, 2017 9:58PM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other1. Words mean things. When you said 'Most of them ended with a bugged meteor CC". You're suggesting that he abused a bug MOST of the time to win.
2. I don't know your EU server, I only know mine, and there are PLENTY that use it. It's an asinine argument to make.
Where did i suggest something got abused? Abuse means it would be intentional.
Meteor is the logical skillchoice for sorc v sorc duels. I can hardly blame anyone for using the best ultimate choice they have for the matchup. It´s simply a fact that it bugs out (just like javelin, fiery reach, fear, dizzing swing, etc). I´m not blaming any NB for fear bugging out from time to time. It´s the game.
Also mage is probably the best nonpet sorc dueler on the server (atleast to my knowledge).
Also i corrected me on most. Happens 50% of the fights i watched fully. Otherwise i just looked at the names. Might have been an unlucky pick. idk.
Asinine is only trying to make me look like an idiot in the attempt to discredit a statement about a megaserver you don´t play on.Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 10:07PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
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And i simply think they were wrong in supporting that?
A bad stamblade dies in seconds. A bad stamdk dies in seconds. A sorc can last much longer than the other two. The only thing lasting longer than a sorc is a heavy templar most of the time (and i´m not a fan of those either).
Btw with your way of arguing (the vast majority) - streak would have never been nerfed. The vast majority of sorcs never utilized it´s potential and died anyway.
It got nerfed because of overachievers and the same has not happened to shieldstacking simply because zos does most likely not figure in 1v1 situations.
Streak got nerfed cus there is no counterplay to it if you get outside 1 gap closers range, so it had to be artificially limited. You can agree to disagree, but shield stacking does have counters in my experience. Shieldbreaker, shattering blows, trap beast, DoT pressure, and properly timed reflects are a few aside from the general concept of pressuring a sorcs stamina pool.
All of the "counters" you´re mentioning are ironically stamina exclusive apart from shattering blows - which reduces your general combat effectiveness when invested too heavy into.
The worst thing you can do against a shieldstacking sorc is dotpressure them with magica dots (as that guarantees they gain ~1200 magica for every harness they cast).
Also streak has still no counter if you get out of gapcloser range ._.
Wait, reflect is a stamina tool?
Come on Derra. The magicka you get from harness doesn't cover the cost of the stack.
Stop. It.
Where did i talk about the whole stack? I wrote every casted harness.
Harness magica returns 1463 x 3 magica at a cost of 3093 for me. If you cast magica dot´s on me it guarantees i get the full return on every harness i cast.
Which means every harness i cast costs me 3093 - 3 x 1463 = -1296 magica
Happy to edjucate you as you don´t seem to be to deep into the magica sorc theorycrafting thing.
Edit: Just to finish that thought process - when doted with magica dots the remaining stack (hardened) has an effective cost of ~1000 magica. As a result you need 1000 magica recovery against a magica player who uses magica dots on you (and no cost increase poisons) to stack shields for an infinite amount of time without running out of resources.
Likewise, I never said the cost of harness wasn't returned. You're still losing out, and your scenario only works when you've got a magicka DOT burning on you. At ALL times. Which it's not.
magicka theorycrafting? For someone who thinks reflect is a stamina mechanic, someone else needs some education.
Show me the magica DKs running around that still utilize reflect ._. (in cyrodiil - i´d slot it in a duel against a sorc but then we´re again at the point of me not liking dueling with specific builds)
Also you can sustain it with a little more than base regeneration (which is ~900 with 5 light) - see you need 1000 magica regen to shieldstack infinetly when getting magica dotted above.
Against the metioned scenario of getting "DOT PRESSURED" which i directly responded to (which you obviously put out of context again in the attempt to discredit me) - you will have a magica dot running on you every time you recast your shields.
I personally think you have absolutely no clue what you´re talking about in terms of magica sorc - so instead of attacking my arguments you resort to attacking me in person, my ability to play the game or bring up random points i´ve said putting them as far out of the mentioned context as you possibly can.
Using your own words against you is off limits? You're so full of yourself it's hilarious. GFY
MagDK Reflect is only for duels? Show me the MagDK's that use it? That one's going in the books. Keep it up, I'm dying here.
I think his point was... If you're getting DOT pressured, that's not the only attack you're on the receiving end of. Eventually you're going down. But then I'm not him, I'm just here watching you lose an argument.
I´ve still yet to see a magica player put out ~12k constant noncrit dps that is needed to break me stacking shields. Way more if i ever drop health.
Honestly point me the direction of magica DKs still slotting reflect for open world cyrodiil. I don´t know a single one atm.
You can use my own words against me as much as you want. I´m just calling you out trying to put me out of context in the attempt to put a statement into my mouth i´ve never made.
1. I don't use DOTs, but I'd time a curse/frag together for 12K non-crit easy, then hit you with another proc frag or meteor immediately when you're on the ground with one shield down. But hey, you can kill me 1v1 EASY with one shield.
2. I play a magicka sorc, it seems like just about every DK on NA uses reflect, including stamina ones. I don't know what game you're playing, honestly. It seriously hurts your credibility when you say 'nobody uses it in open PVP'
3. I'm just using all of the gems you keep handing me. It's not my fault.
No DK uses Reflect in Open PVP, People like you QQ about it and ZoS made some many skills unreflectable thats its pointless, in addtion to the reflect cap of 4.
Just Stop.Power Wealth And Influence.2 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Derra I have been trying to read through the 5 pages of this argument,
a) When you say shield stacking I assume you mean Ward/Harness and aren't counting Heal Ward/Hard Ward as shield stacking?
b) Also in open world, you're not saying you run with Harness magicka as your 1 shield are you? I used to run with just hard ward on my front bar and I did fine. But I can't imagine just running with harness since most of Cyrodiil is stamina anyway (At least right now), and the shield strength was just too low for my liking. Harness (maybe even ball lightning) I think will gain some popularity in Homestead when the crybads reroll to magicka again.
Also to those parties interested, when I run on my defense bar and use hard ward/harness/heal ward....I am pretty hard pressed to recall a time when I died to another sorc. Usually takes more people jumping in on me, or a stalemate
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherMalamar1229 wrote: »@Derra I have been trying to read through the 5 pages of this argument,
a) When you say shield stacking I assume you mean Ward/Harness and aren't counting Heal Ward/Hard Ward as shield stacking?
b) Also in open world, you're not saying you run with Harness magicka as your 1 shield are you? I used to run with just hard ward on my front bar and I did fine. But I can't imagine just running with harness since most of Cyrodiil is stamina anyway (At least right now), and the shield strength was just too low for my liking. Harness (maybe even ball lightning) I think will gain some popularity in Homestead when the crybads reroll to magicka again.
Also to those parties interested, when I run on my defense bar and use hard ward/harness/heal ward....I am pretty hard pressed to recall a time when I died to another sorc. Usually takes more people jumping in on me, or a stalemate
I mean harness + hardened correct. Shields that can get stacked on top of 100% full HP.
I don´t consider healing + hardened stack as bad because to get a noticeable stack you have to be in the risk of dying in the first place.
On top of that I don´t think healing ward is currently replaceable as it functions as the main heal for sorcs and NBs (i´ve already mentioned ideas for reworking it though).
I run hardened only for open world. I think harness is one of the most broken abilities in the game due to the resorce return mechanics (today theorycrafting around it made me realise just how broken it is).Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 10:02PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭@Minalan brother, stop it, you look quite uneducated compared to @Derra ...
Derra is on point with shieldstacking.
P.S. Actually started to play my sorc since Dark Brotherhood release
defensive rune on second bar makes all those velidreth gankets look stupid. PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq2 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Malamar1229 wrote: »@Derra I have been trying to read through the 5 pages of this argument,
a) When you say shield stacking I assume you mean Ward/Harness and aren't counting Heal Ward/Hard Ward as shield stacking?
b) Also in open world, you're not saying you run with Harness magicka as your 1 shield are you? I used to run with just hard ward on my front bar and I did fine. But I can't imagine just running with harness since most of Cyrodiil is stamina anyway (At least right now), and the shield strength was just too low for my liking. Harness (maybe even ball lightning) I think will gain some popularity in Homestead when the crybads reroll to magicka again.
Also to those parties interested, when I run on my defense bar and use hard ward/harness/heal ward....I am pretty hard pressed to recall a time when I died to another sorc. Usually takes more people jumping in on me, or a stalemate
I mean harness + hardened correct. Shields that can get stacked on top of 100% full HP.
I don´t consider healing + hardened stack as bad because to get a noticeable stack you have to be in the risk of dying in the first place.
On top of that I don´t think healing ward is currently replaceable as it functions as the main heal for sorcs and NBs (i´ve already mentioned ideas for reworking it though).
I run hardened only for open world. I think harness is one of the most broken abilities in the game due to the resorce return mechanics (today theorycrafting around it made me realise just how broken it is).
To your last point, if shields couldn't stack I don't know if I'd call it broken. It's a pretty low shield in pvp (like 7k?) so having high magicka returns is OK in my book. However, I wonder it's potential in Homestead with perma frost staff blocking trollmagplars
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Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭Valera Progib wrote: »
Put it on your Overload bar (if you run it), saves you a slot on your back bar0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherMalamar1229 wrote: »Malamar1229 wrote: »@Derra I have been trying to read through the 5 pages of this argument,
a) When you say shield stacking I assume you mean Ward/Harness and aren't counting Heal Ward/Hard Ward as shield stacking?
b) Also in open world, you're not saying you run with Harness magicka as your 1 shield are you? I used to run with just hard ward on my front bar and I did fine. But I can't imagine just running with harness since most of Cyrodiil is stamina anyway (At least right now), and the shield strength was just too low for my liking. Harness (maybe even ball lightning) I think will gain some popularity in Homestead when the crybads reroll to magicka again.
Also to those parties interested, when I run on my defense bar and use hard ward/harness/heal ward....I am pretty hard pressed to recall a time when I died to another sorc. Usually takes more people jumping in on me, or a stalemate
I mean harness + hardened correct. Shields that can get stacked on top of 100% full HP.
I don´t consider healing + hardened stack as bad because to get a noticeable stack you have to be in the risk of dying in the first place.
On top of that I don´t think healing ward is currently replaceable as it functions as the main heal for sorcs and NBs (i´ve already mentioned ideas for reworking it though).
I run hardened only for open world. I think harness is one of the most broken abilities in the game due to the resorce return mechanics (today theorycrafting around it made me realise just how broken it is).
To your last point, if shields couldn't stack I don't know if I'd call it broken. It's a pretty low shield in pvp (like 7k?) so having high magicka returns is OK in my book. However, I wonder it's potential in Homestead with perma frost staff blocking trollmagplars
It wouldn´t be broken if it could not stack - agreed.
So i correct myself. Harness is broken when used in conjunction with hardened ward allowing you to take full advantage of the magica return against every magica player. Effectively making both shields free to cast on a high magica build.
Edit: @Malamar1229 - i´m not sure if it will be broken with permablocking icestaff mainly because harness scales with max magica AND pieces of light armor worn. It´ll be problematic if someone manages to create a permablocking light armor build. That´s when the fun starts. Oh boy.Edited by Derra on January 22, 2017 10:24PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500
