ZOS, Why Don't You Meaningfully Participate In Forums

Vert32

I would like to know why ZOS does not meaningfully participate in the forums. I would define "meaningful participation" as discussing the pros and cons of game features that affect the combat. As shown below (according to my data), ZOS commented on 38 threads out of 360. That's only 10.6%. Of ZOS's 38 comments only 2 (5.3% of the 38 comments) of the comments could potentially affect combat. And one of those was @Wrobel commenting on AOE Caps over 1 year ago. The other comment was @ZOS_JessicaFolsom commenting on Miat's PVP Alerts.

I admit that I never actively participated in the forums until yesterday (1/8/17) but after compiling these numbers why would I. Suppose that ZOS regularly views (not comment on) threads for more than just keeping everybody in line (which the data does not suggest) and they are actively looking for ways to positively and meaningfully (combat) change ESO. Wouldn't you expect better improvements to combat, balance, performance, or diversity?

I believe that if ZOS wants to improve ESO they need to more regularly engage the community. Although, as stated in my first thread, "PvP: Risk and Reward" (way to long to read), I don't believe the answer to balancing PvP is in the forums.

ZOS, transparency and communication are the best way to understand what your community thinks. As far as I can tell ZOS is severely lacking in both.

FORUMS ANALYSIS

I took a sample the first 12 pages of the General ESO Discussion and the first 12 pages of the Combat & Character Mechanics as of 5:30PM - 6:00PM PST on 1/9/17 and recorded discussions that ZOS participated in. Additionally, I noted what type of input was provided by ZOS and those are as follows: warning/removal of nonconstructive comments, notification of thread shutdown, notification of thread relocation, bug fixes, non-game effecting comments, and game effecting comments.

The following is a summary of ZOSs forum interactions over 24 pages of discussion on 2 forum topics (a detailed list can be viewed at the end of this thread):

Total Comments from ZOS: 38 (100%)

Warnings/Removal of Nonconstructive Comments: 7 (18.4%)
Notifications of Thread Shutdown: 14 (36.8%)
Thread Relocations: 10 (26.3%)
Bug Fixes: 3 (7.9%)
Non-Game/Combat Affecting Comments: 2 (5.3%)
Game/Combat Affecting Comments: 2 (5.3%)

The first comment will detail the data collected.

Vert32

5:30PM to 6:00PM on 1/9/17

page 1: 1 warning, 1 shutdown

page 2: 1 warning, 1 shutdown

page 3: 3 shutdowns

page 4: 2 shutdown

page 5: 1 bug fix

page 6: 0 comments

page 7: 2 shutdowns, 1 relocation

page 8: 2 shutdowns, 3 relcations

page 9: 1 shutdown, 1 non-combat: comment from Gina addressing work at ZOS. No actual game improvement conversations

page 10: 4 relocations, 1 shutdown, 1 combat: comment from Jessica regaurding Miat's Add-On. She describes what it does, how it works, and that they are considering making changes to the API.

page 11: 1 non-combat: comment from Gina showing appreciation for people sharing photos of themselves, 1 bug fix

page 12: 2 warnings (and 1 ZOS comment deleted by ZOS addressing the recent radiant nerf)

COMBAT & CHARACTER MECHANICS

page 1: 0 comments

page 2: 1 warning

page 3: 1 warning

page 4: 0 comments

page 5: 1 relocation, 1 warning

page 6: 0 comments

page 7: 0 comments

page 8: 1 relocation

page 9: 0 comments

page 10: 0 comments

page 11: 1 shutdown

page 12: 1 combat: The famed "AOE CAP" is still alive, with Wroble having commented on it over a year ago, page 16. Of the sample I have taken this is the only meaningful post. You can read it in detail but his immediate answer didn't even address the real discussion.
1 bug fix

Vert32

I tried to keep the post as short as I could, so I will add some of my own thoughts in later comments if the thread gets any attention.

LegacyDM

Could be 1 of 2 reasons.

1. They are too busy and dont get paid overtime to engage forum discussions after work.
2. Devs have been directed By management to not speak on forums or need management permission to do so.

My guess is #2. it's because back when the game first came out the devs communicated their ideas and were transparent. however, when they couldn't deliver or said stupid stuff the forums went ballistic. Now Zos is tight lipped. Here some examples:

Justice system
Spell crafting
Paul sage on cyrodil performance when he told everyone to find other things to do in cyrodil. Way it was written sounded Like it was the players fault for causing the lag.
Or when Maria told everyone they were tracking cps and to keep questing to accumulate cps. Only to find out they were being capped and everyone was getting 70. So if you completed all 3 faction quest content which took months to complete you were getting the same as someone who barely completed anything.

So basically zos is notorious for gaffes and promoting visions they don't follow through on. No wonder management put a lid on it.

LordGavus

Imagine there are some restrictions on what and where they can comment.
Also, I can see people trying to drag them into endless arguments if they commented too much.

KochDerDamonen

"ZOS use the forums more"
"OMG ZOS why u respond to their thread and not mine?"
"ZOS!!!!! my in-depth rework of the entire game in the form of a 24-post essay is v important for you to read, I just added 3 more posts!"

They comment when they must, I think a pinch more might be nice, but they're not exactly missing.

BomblePants

And there was that time Rich Lambert got involved in a discussion..... it didn't end so well.

People are inappropriate when expressing their dissatisfaction a lot of the time - so it just wouldn't work.

CapnPhoton

I would rather efforts are put to use working on the game rather than browsing forums.

However, it is likely they will respond to this one before they close it...

Rohamad_Ali

I just want the LOL button back .

The_Protagonist

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

Vert32

@LegacyDM Thank you for this insight. Like I said, I never really participated in the forums so I didn't know the history of the forums.

I 100% believe that they have been instructed by management not to interact on the forums because 1) you can't please everyone, so even if they give the right answer it will have too negative of an impact to warrant making the comment in the first place and 2) without interrupting management to clarify the companies position on the subject, the admin would probably provide an opinion that isn't coherent with the Companies view or intent. So unless @ZOS_GinaBruno, @Wrobel, or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom take time out of their work to communicate on the forums then all of the other ZOS Admin are just babysitters. It's unfortunate that they can't come up with a system to correct for this.

If that is the case, then why would anybody waste their time on the forums. As state above, I don't believe any concept of balance can be achieved by listening to the forums. Too many people subjectively pushing their favorite builds. And if ZOS is or isn't listening to the forums, how can anyone expect them to balance/better the game.

Vert32

@KochDerDamonen I left this out of the narrative but I agree that the vast majority of threads don't deserve ANY attention because they are unwarranted and are too subjective. I reviewed a sample of threads and they are entirely a waste of time (my subjective opinion).

LegacyDM

unhander_2 wrote: »

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

If they want to build a good reputation and establish community confidence they should communicate, instead of burying their head in the sand out of fear from the forum trolls or warriors.

I said this in another post. They need to hire a spokesperson who can be the liaison between the community and devs. Spokesperson would do the dance and weave like a presidential press secretary. They would consolidate all of the devs activity and speak on their behalf. Answer questions and relay feedback. Be in charge of coordinating rant sessions and eso live. Sort through the forums for good ideas. Listen to pts feedback. Maybe have weekly online chat discussions on behalf of the devs. Have s dedicated forum spot for mature discussions on bettering the game. Be engaged.

Cause right now what we have is forum moderators sensoring content. Devs who comment hardly ever. Gina and Jessica who try to keep things positive and do patch notes, and a game director who is Mia until once a year for a road ahead or the random online magazine interview.

Here's the kicker, they could have hired this person for the price of the 1 mill giveaway and other rewards they do.

The_Protagonist

LegacyDM wrote: »

unhander_2 wrote: »

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

If they want to build a good reputation and establish community confidence they should communicate, instead of burying their head in the sand out of fear from the forum trolls or warriors.

I said this in another post. They need to hire a spokesperson who can be the liaison between the community and devs. Spokesperson would do the dance and weave like a presidential press secretary. They would consolidate all of the devs activity and speak on their behalf. Answer questions and relay feedback. Be in charge of coordinating rant sessions and eso live. Sort through the forums for good ideas. Listen to pts feedback. Maybe have weekly online chat discussions on behalf of the devs. Have s dedicated forum spot for mature discussions on bettering the game. Be engaged.

Cause right now what we have is forum moderators sensoring content. Devs who comment hardly ever. Gina and Jessica who try to keep things positive and do patch notes, and a game director who is Mia until once a year for a road ahead or the random online magazine interview.

Here's the kicker, they could have hired this person for the price of the 1 mill giveaway and other rewards they do.

Totally agree with you.

Vert32

@unhander_2 I agree but I am arguing that communication can benefit the community and the game. IF, and only if thoughtfully executed. Thoughtful execution requires significant research and attention to detail. Employees capable of this are probably utilized elsewhere in the company. . .

I agree. My that my posts and all others, in my opinion, are a waste of time. And that is to the point of the narrative, that the forums have become a place for people that care about the game to either agree with each other (less common) or bicker to no end (most common) and for ZOS to babysit those who don't know how to have a constructive conversation (approximately 55.2% of their efforts).

KochDerDamonen

Vert32 wrote: »

@KochDerDamonen I left this out of the narrative but I agree that the vast majority of threads don't deserve ANY attention because they are unwarranted and are too subjective. I reviewed a sample of threads and they are entirely a waste of time (my subjective opinion).

The sad truth, of things ranging from "add dragunnzz/dwarfses" to vague demands for x or y, more or less.

'twould be nice to see more responses to effective threads letting us know if things are being looked at or tweaked in some way, but I don't expect too much more than that.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The internet has too much time on it's hands.

Vert32

LegacyDM wrote: »

unhander_2 wrote: »

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

If they want to build a good reputation and establish community confidence they should communicate, instead of burying their head in the sand out of fear from the forum trolls or warriors.

I said this in another post. They need to hire a spokesperson who can be the liaison between the community and devs. Spokesperson would do the dance and weave like a presidential press secretary. They would consolidate all of the devs activity and speak on their behalf. Answer questions and relay feedback. Be in charge of coordinating rant sessions and eso live. Sort through the forums for good ideas. Listen to pts feedback. Maybe have weekly online chat discussions on behalf of the devs. Have s dedicated forum spot for mature discussions on bettering the game. Be engaged.

Cause right now what we have is forum moderators sensoring content. Devs who comment hardly ever. Gina and Jessica who try to keep things positive and do patch notes, and a game director who is Mia until once a year for a road ahead or the random online magazine interview.

Here's the kicker, they could have hired this person for the price of the 1 mill giveaway and other rewards they do.

@LegacyDM I couldn't have said it better myself. I would imagine that other online games allocate the appropriate funds to fill that position as you described and experience benefits greater than the investment.

The_Protagonist

Vert32 wrote: »

@unhander_2 I agree but I am arguing that communication can benefit the community and the game. IF, and only if thoughtfully executed. Thoughtful execution requires significant research and attention to detail. Employees capable of this are probably utilized elsewhere in the company. . .

I agree. My that my posts and all others, in my opinion, are a waste of time. And that is to the point of the narrative, that the forums have become a place for people that care about the game to either agree with each other (less common) or bicker to no end (most common) and for ZOS to babysit those who don't know how to have a constructive conversation (approximately 55.2% of their efforts).

@Vert32

Your post is actually constructive, in no way did I intend imply otherwise, I apologize if I sounded like that, what I felt is that your effort is wasted. With over 90% of the community posting rubbish, ZOS has become accustomed to ignore almost everything.

Right now ZOS is in the greed phase, where they will concentrate more on what sells fast, rather than what will retain loyal players. They will give just about enough so that it's not abandoned all-together. It will be interesting to see how this game will either rise above others or fall into the graveyard like the rest.

To be honest, I appreciate objective approaches that rely on hard data, in your case statistical analysis of the posts. For me it was insightful and informative. You have my appreciation for that.

Curragraigue

When they comment or give information they have forum users going ballistic so they stopped.

Personally I think forum users would be calmer if there was more community involvement earlier in the development process. Instead of here are the changes we are making you get a few weeks on PTS before they go live why not 2-3 months prior say we are thinking about changing this skill for this reason. We are doing internal testing what do you think? Then when the crazy comments fly provide the stats or reasons why they plan to make the changes.

TLDR we don't get nice things because of how we behave

Vert32

KochDerDamonen wrote: »

Vert32 wrote: »

@KochDerDamonen I left this out of the narrative but I agree that the vast majority of threads don't deserve ANY attention because they are unwarranted and are too subjective. I reviewed a sample of threads and they are entirely a waste of time (my subjective opinion).

The sad truth, of things ranging from "add dragunnzz/dwarfses" to vague demands for x or y, more or less.

'twould be nice to see more responses to effective threads letting us know if things are being looked at or tweaked in some way, but I don't expect too much more than that.

I 100% agree. That would proved me with the confidence in ZOS that I am looking for. Based upon past adjustments to ESO (regarding combat, which have been mostly bad) and without communication of their intentions I am left to assume the worst in upcoming balance and improvements.

Curragraigue

LegacyDM wrote: »

unhander_2 wrote: »

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

If they want to build a good reputation and establish community confidence they should communicate, instead of burying their head in the sand out of fear from the forum trolls or warriors.

I said this in another post. They need to hire a spokesperson who can be the liaison between the community and devs. Spokesperson would do the dance and weave like a presidential press secretary. They would consolidate all of the devs activity and speak on their behalf. Answer questions and relay feedback. Be in charge of coordinating rant sessions and eso live. Sort through the forums for good ideas. Listen to pts feedback. Maybe have weekly online chat discussions on behalf of the devs. Have s dedicated forum spot for mature discussions on bettering the game. Be engaged.

Cause right now what we have is forum moderators sensoring content. Devs who comment hardly ever. Gina and Jessica who try to keep things positive and do patch notes, and a game director who is Mia until once a year for a road ahead or the random online magazine interview.

Here's the kicker, they could have hired this person for the price of the 1 mill giveaway and other rewards they do.

Pretty sure that is what Gina, Jessica and Kai are all doing

The_Protagonist

Curragraigue wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

unhander_2 wrote: »

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

If they want to build a good reputation and establish community confidence they should communicate, instead of burying their head in the sand out of fear from the forum trolls or warriors.

I said this in another post. They need to hire a spokesperson who can be the liaison between the community and devs. Spokesperson would do the dance and weave like a presidential press secretary. They would consolidate all of the devs activity and speak on their behalf. Answer questions and relay feedback. Be in charge of coordinating rant sessions and eso live. Sort through the forums for good ideas. Listen to pts feedback. Maybe have weekly online chat discussions on behalf of the devs. Have s dedicated forum spot for mature discussions on bettering the game. Be engaged.

Cause right now what we have is forum moderators sensoring content. Devs who comment hardly ever. Gina and Jessica who try to keep things positive and do patch notes, and a game director who is Mia until once a year for a road ahead or the random online magazine interview.

Here's the kicker, they could have hired this person for the price of the 1 mill giveaway and other rewards they do.

Pretty sure that is what Gina, Jessica and Kai are all doing

Yes that's right.

Vert32

unhander_2 wrote: »

Vert32 wrote: »

@unhander_2 I agree but I am arguing that communication can benefit the community and the game. IF, and only if thoughtfully executed. Thoughtful execution requires significant research and attention to detail. Employees capable of this are probably utilized elsewhere in the company. . .

I agree. My that my posts and all others, in my opinion, are a waste of time. And that is to the point of the narrative, that the forums have become a place for people that care about the game to either agree with each other (less common) or bicker to no end (most common) and for ZOS to babysit those who don't know how to have a constructive conversation (approximately 55.2% of their efforts).

@Vert32

Your post is actually constructive, in no way did I intend imply otherwise, I apologize if I sounded like that, what I felt is that your effort is wasted. With over 90% of the community posting rubbish, ZOS has become accustomed to ignore almost everything.

Right now ZOS is in the greed phase, where they will concentrate more on what sells fast, rather than what will retain loyal players. They will give just about enough so that it's not abandoned all-together. It will be interesting to see how this game will either rise above others or fall into the graveyard like the rest.

To be honest, I appreciate objective approaches that rely on hard data, in your case statistical analysis of the posts. For me it was insightful and informative. You have my appreciation for that.

Thank you @unhander_2. I understood the intent of your initial comment and was just expanding upon it. I have a tenancy write far more than I need to to effectively deliver my message so I'm am working on being more concise but sometimes it results in missed messages.

LegacyDM

Curragraigue wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

unhander_2 wrote: »

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

If they want to build a good reputation and establish community confidence they should communicate, instead of burying their head in the sand out of fear from the forum trolls or warriors.

I said this in another post. They need to hire a spokesperson who can be the liaison between the community and devs. Spokesperson would do the dance and weave like a presidential press secretary. They would consolidate all of the devs activity and speak on their behalf. Answer questions and relay feedback. Be in charge of coordinating rant sessions and eso live. Sort through the forums for good ideas. Listen to pts feedback. Maybe have weekly online chat discussions on behalf of the devs. Have s dedicated forum spot for mature discussions on bettering the game. Be engaged.

Cause right now what we have is forum moderators sensoring content. Devs who comment hardly ever. Gina and Jessica who try to keep things positive and do patch notes, and a game director who is Mia until once a year for a road ahead or the random online magazine interview.

Here's the kicker, they could have hired this person for the price of the 1 mill giveaway and other rewards they do.

Pretty sure that is what Gina, Jessica and Kai are all doing

I'm sure they are busy at whatever projects zos has them working on. Feels like they are consumed with other priorities. I'm advocating for one central person who is in charge, whose sole job is to engage and build the community relationship and reinstall confidence on a daily/weekly basis. Gina, Jessica, and Kai come and go sporadically and are extremely selective on how they engage the community. We need someone, a face for the company per say, whose sole job is how I described.

Vert32

Curragraigue wrote: »

When they comment or give information they have forum users going ballistic so they stopped.

Personally I think forum users would be calmer if there was more community involvement earlier in the development process. Instead of here are the changes we are making you get a few weeks on PTS before they go live why not 2-3 months prior say we are thinking about changing this skill for this reason. We are doing internal testing what do you think? Then when the crazy comments fly provide the stats or reasons why they plan to make the changes.

TLDR we don't get nice things because of how we behave

I read everything I respond to otherwise misunderstandings occur and misunderstandings lead to "ballistic" conversation.

I agree that the quarterly patch releases are far from an effective way to balance a game. It is ridiculous to think that so many interwoven variables and issues can be corrected when ZOS adjusts so much in massive patches.

My only criticism to ZOS, is that based on past patches (balancing failures) and lack of communication gives me ZERO hope that they will fix anything substantial. Also, as I see it, ZOS does not care about balancing PVP because they can't sell a fix to an existing infrastructure. So they drag PVPers along, saying that they are working on fixing it but in reality they are not investing the appropriate resources. And that is wrong.

DragonBound

Vert32 wrote: »

I would like to know why ZOS does not meaningfully participate in the forums. I would define "meaningful participation" as discussing the pros and cons of game features that affect the combat. As shown below (according to my data), ZOS commented on 38 threads out of 360. That's only 10.6%. Of ZOS's 38 comments only 2 (5.3% of the 38 comments) of the comments could potentially affect combat. And one of those was @Wrobel commenting on AOE Caps over 1 year ago. The other comment was @ZOS_JessicaFolsom commenting on Miat's PVP Alerts.

I admit that I never actively participated in the forums until yesterday (1/8/17) but after compiling these numbers why would I. Suppose that ZOS regularly views (not comment on) threads for more than just keeping everybody in line (which the data does not suggest) and they are actively looking for ways to positively and meaningfully (combat) change ESO. Wouldn't you expect better improvements to combat, balance, performance, or diversity?

I believe that if ZOS wants to improve ESO they need to more regularly engage the community. Although, as stated in my first thread, "PvP: Risk and Reward" (way to long to read), I don't believe the answer to balancing PvP is in the forums.

ZOS, transparency and communication are the best way to understand what your community thinks. As far as I can tell ZOS is severely lacking in both.

FORUMS ANALYSIS

I took a sample the first 12 pages of the General ESO Discussion and the first 12 pages of the Combat & Character Mechanics as of 5:30PM - 6:00PM PST on 1/9/17 and recorded discussions that ZOS participated in. Additionally, I noted what type of input was provided by ZOS and those are as follows: warning/removal of nonconstructive comments, notification of thread shutdown, notification of thread relocation, bug fixes, non-game effecting comments, and game effecting comments.

The following is a summary of ZOSs forum interactions over 24 pages of discussion on 2 forum topics (a detailed list can be viewed at the end of this thread):

Total Comments from ZOS: 38 (100%)

Warnings/Removal of Nonconstructive Comments: 7 (18.4%)
Notifications of Thread Shutdown: 14 (36.8%)
Thread Relocations: 10 (26.3%)
Bug Fixes: 3 (7.9%)
Non-Game/Combat Affecting Comments: 2 (5.3%)
Game/Combat Affecting Comments: 2 (5.3%)

The first comment will detail the data collected.

Did you exclude test server attention? Considering thats where balance changes and other things start they have been very good with communication.

Vert32

Curragraigue wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

unhander_2 wrote: »

The analysis and all is good, but sorry to say that those numbers really don't mean anything, because they have no liability to answer to us. If they respond it's pleasant, if they don't, well, it's their choice.

I do not mean to undermine your effort in extracting the data and analyzing it statistically (6 sigma anyone). Good insight, but a wasted effort.

If they want to build a good reputation and establish community confidence they should communicate, instead of burying their head in the sand out of fear from the forum trolls or warriors.

I said this in another post. They need to hire a spokesperson who can be the liaison between the community and devs. Spokesperson would do the dance and weave like a presidential press secretary. They would consolidate all of the devs activity and speak on their behalf. Answer questions and relay feedback. Be in charge of coordinating rant sessions and eso live. Sort through the forums for good ideas. Listen to pts feedback. Maybe have weekly online chat discussions on behalf of the devs. Have s dedicated forum spot for mature discussions on bettering the game. Be engaged.

Cause right now what we have is forum moderators sensoring content. Devs who comment hardly ever. Gina and Jessica who try to keep things positive and do patch notes, and a game director who is Mia until once a year for a road ahead or the random online magazine interview.

Here's the kicker, they could have hired this person for the price of the 1 mill giveaway and other rewards they do.

Pretty sure that is what Gina, Jessica and Kai are all doing

I completely disagree. The employees that have become the "face" of ZOS through interacting with the community are not responsible for fishing through the forums to identify posts that merit a response. And when they do it is only to deliver a message that is coherent with the Company's views and has limited potential repercussions.

I completely agree that ZOS needs a liaison just as @LegacyDM described it. The only other option is for ZOS to invest time into identifying specific individuals in the community and on the forums that are capable of constructive conversation (in agreement and disagreement) and that have an extensive understanding of the game/combat. And then having those "board member" meet on a semi-regular basis to discuss current issues and possible solutions.

Vert32

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Vert32 wrote: »

I would like to know why ZOS does not meaningfully participate in the forums. I would define "meaningful participation" as discussing the pros and cons of game features that affect the combat. As shown below (according to my data), ZOS commented on 38 threads out of 360. That's only 10.6%. Of ZOS's 38 comments only 2 (5.3% of the 38 comments) of the comments could potentially affect combat. And one of those was @Wrobel commenting on AOE Caps over 1 year ago. The other comment was @ZOS_JessicaFolsom commenting on Miat's PVP Alerts.

I admit that I never actively participated in the forums until yesterday (1/8/17) but after compiling these numbers why would I. Suppose that ZOS regularly views (not comment on) threads for more than just keeping everybody in line (which the data does not suggest) and they are actively looking for ways to positively and meaningfully (combat) change ESO. Wouldn't you expect better improvements to combat, balance, performance, or diversity?

I believe that if ZOS wants to improve ESO they need to more regularly engage the community. Although, as stated in my first thread, "PvP: Risk and Reward" (way to long to read), I don't believe the answer to balancing PvP is in the forums.

ZOS, transparency and communication are the best way to understand what your community thinks. As far as I can tell ZOS is severely lacking in both.

FORUMS ANALYSIS

I took a sample the first 12 pages of the General ESO Discussion and the first 12 pages of the Combat & Character Mechanics as of 5:30PM - 6:00PM PST on 1/9/17 and recorded discussions that ZOS participated in. Additionally, I noted what type of input was provided by ZOS and those are as follows: warning/removal of nonconstructive comments, notification of thread shutdown, notification of thread relocation, bug fixes, non-game effecting comments, and game effecting comments.

The following is a summary of ZOSs forum interactions over 24 pages of discussion on 2 forum topics (a detailed list can be viewed at the end of this thread):

Total Comments from ZOS: 38 (100%)

Warnings/Removal of Nonconstructive Comments: 7 (18.4%)
Notifications of Thread Shutdown: 14 (36.8%)
Thread Relocations: 10 (26.3%)
Bug Fixes: 3 (7.9%)
Non-Game/Combat Affecting Comments: 2 (5.3%)
Game/Combat Affecting Comments: 2 (5.3%)

The first comment will detail the data collected.

Did you exclude test server attention? Considering thats where balance changes and other things start they have been very good with communication.

I admit that my data is flawed in many ways. Mind you I collected and analyzed the data in half and hour.

But I chose to exclude the PTS threads because 2 to 3 weeks of attention to posts are ineffective in correcting issues discovered or expected as result of patch adjustments. Additionally, I would argue that, as stated above, that ZOS does not address the major balance issues before or after the PTS.

If ZOS does not consider the right sources to adjust balance well before patch notes and the PTS, then adjustments made in patches that are tested on PTS are too little too late. That is why I did not consider the influx of forum interaction during PTS.

Pixel_Zealot

Forum shutdown in 3... 2...

Mojmir

BomblePants wrote: »

And there was that time Rich Lambert got involved in a discussion..... it didn't end so well.

People are inappropriate when expressing their dissatisfaction a lot of the time - so it just wouldn't work.

or maybe he doesnt understand gaming communities, theyre all like this. you need to have thicker skin and be humble. comments like "you know you dont have to be here right?" and most recently his defense of "older" gamers just shows his lack of experience and how defensive he is. trust me i deal with worse customers than us, face to face and through phone calls. over a forum is a cakewalk, you just have to pause,breath,prepare your answer and expect to not please everyone. what annoys me is when i dev responds with the most greyish of answers ONCE in a thread and then you never hear from them again on the subject. they need more transparency and involvement, every update their changes show more and more disregard for player feedback or heavy-handed institution.