Proc Sets - Wait until PTS before getting too triggered!

Vaoh

Please everyone..... let's wait until PTS before everyone goes full trigger mode and blows up on each other about this.

Proc sets will no longer Crit next patch. This is great in PvP (little debate) but undecided in PvE (lots of debate).

Fact is, we cannot know just how much this'll truly change things until we see the full patch notes, which include many class balance changes as well as set changes. The PTS will be our way to determine how this nerf will affect PvE, for better or worse.

That is all!

Vaoh

Personally, I am not fond of this change in PvE. Magicka Sorc may become unwanted Regardless, there is no way to prove this with PTS testing.

kongkim

Vaoh wrote: »

Please everyone..... let's wait until PTS before everyone goes full trigger mode and blows up on each other about this.

Proc sets will no longer Crit next patch. This is great in PvP (no debate) but undecided in PvE (lots of debate).

Fact is, we cannot know just how much this'll truly change things until we see the full patch notes, which include many class balance changes as well as set changes. The PTS will be our way to determine how this nerf will affect PvE, for better or worse.

That is all!

Personally, I am not fond of this change in PvE. Magicka Sorc may become unwanted Regardless, there is no way to prove this with PTS testing.

Agree people are really too fast to get all red and hatey..
And just wait and see. Even after that patch most people will still be running the same sets just with a little lower numbers popping up.

Also i don't really get the people that will split the game up in two, but make sets and skills behave different in PvE and PvP. Its the same game and i like my builds to work the same.
Balance will always come and god and it will happen again.

arkansas_ESO

The issue is, by the time it gets to pts, ZOS doesn't have the time to implement most buy fixes, let alone address balance concerns. Better to make your opinion heard now than to have to wait another 3 months for update 14

GreenSoup2HoT

When is PTS?

Vaoh

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

When is PTS?

Early January.

That's what people have told me. Not sure where ZOS stated this though so I can't confirm it (probably mentioned last ESO Live).

Tyrion87

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

leepalmer95

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Vaoh

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Iceheart will become such a confused set. Gives 1-piece Crit chance, and procs on crit damage, but cannot crit fml....

So many Proc sets need buffs, while some of them need nerfs (even massive nerfs). Again, we need to wait and see the Full patch notes before going nuts about it all. They may buff these sets.

Aliyavana

remember when ppl on pts complained about the shield icon that appears when blocking and zos did nothing to even add a toggle for it and most people I know do not like it. yah pts has shown its best to be heard before it happens

Tyrion87

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

leepalmer95

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

Nerfing them overall because overall they are too strong.

Then adjusting some tooltips of the less OP ones in order to bring them up on par or at least a similar level of the current strong ones.

Seems reasonable to me.

Vaoh

arcadiadark wrote: »

remember when ppl on pts complained about the shield icon that appears when blocking and zos did nothing to even add a toggle for it and most people I know do not like it. yah pts has shown its best to be heard before it happens

By now I think we've learned that your concerns are irrelevant regardless of their legitamacy.

ZOS decides what happens. They don't care if you don't like a change this big as it has obviously been taken into account for their design decisions on other parts of the game now.

*Best way to have ZOS change stuff is to test on PTS and provide statistical data for them to see. Even then chances of change are slim. *

Black Rose+Viper+Tremorscale was known on PTS. AoE Caps were hated by a significant majority of the community. Many skills have been broken or made OP and fixed awhile after or never fixed. Feedback is pretty much ignored, especially when not even from a PTS.

Vaoh

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

Nerfing them overall because overall they are too strong.

Then adjusting some tooltips of the less OP ones in order to bring them up on par or at least a similar level of the current strong ones.

Seems reasonable to me.

You expect way too much from ZOS

pattyLtd

Its too much aamd its yet again attempt to fix a problem by changing something that isnt causing the problem.
Ilambris for example hits hard because it procs ALL THE TIME not because it crits.

Besides that the many changes to class and skill balances is not exactly something i am looking forward too because it will be a huge mess of things changed that didnt need it just tweak things dont change too much.

Whatever they coem up with now I will deal with it and work around it somehow. I have learned from the last balance thi g they did and destroyed my then only character build by having all kinds of max level characters ready.

I still love ESO but i have lost fate in ZOS, i'm sorry about that

Tyrion87

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

Nerfing them overall because overall they are too strong.

Then adjusting some tooltips of the less OP ones in order to bring them up on par or at least a similar level of the current strong ones.

Seems reasonable to me.

And you really think ZOS will actually do this? I wouldn't expect that much from them...

And it amazes me how PvP crowd is now defending this nerf, claiming that proc sets are so op in PvE while this was never a case... Please, just stop defending an incompetence of ZOS to separate things that need separation.

AzraelKrieg

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

Nerfing them overall because overall they are too strong.

Then adjusting some tooltips of the less OP ones in order to bring them up on par or at least a similar level of the current strong ones.

Seems reasonable to me.

And you really think ZOS will actually do this? I wouldn't expect that much from them...

And it amazes me how PvP crowd is now defending this nerf, claiming that proc sets are so op in PvE while this was never a case... Please, just stop defending an incompetence of ZOS to separate things that need separation.

The PvP'ers are still whining about the change because it isn't what they wanted since nearly everyone runs Impen anyway but a crit proc from Tremorscale is still deadly all the same

leepalmer95

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

Nerfing them overall because overall they are too strong.

Then adjusting some tooltips of the less OP ones in order to bring them up on par or at least a similar level of the current strong ones.

Seems reasonable to me.

And you really think ZOS will actually do this? I wouldn't expect that much from them...

And it amazes me how PvP crowd is now defending this nerf, claiming that proc sets are so op in PvE while this was never a case... Please, just stop defending an incompetence of ZOS to separate things that need separation.

The PvP'ers are still whining about the change because it isn't what they wanted since nearly everyone runs Impen anyway but a crit proc from Tremorscale is still deadly all the same

From what i've seen since yesterday this forum is full of pve people wining about a potential few % dps loss and are claiming the sky is falling and pve will be impossible.

The few pvp players do seem to think the nerf to pvp procs won't be enough but are holding judgment to pts.

Tyrion87

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

Nerfing them overall because overall they are too strong.

Then adjusting some tooltips of the less OP ones in order to bring them up on par or at least a similar level of the current strong ones.

Seems reasonable to me.

And you really think ZOS will actually do this? I wouldn't expect that much from them...

And it amazes me how PvP crowd is now defending this nerf, claiming that proc sets are so op in PvE while this was never a case... Please, just stop defending an incompetence of ZOS to separate things that need separation.

The PvP'ers are still whining about the change because it isn't what they wanted since nearly everyone runs Impen anyway but a crit proc from Tremorscale is still deadly all the same

Yeah I know that. That's why I think this nerf will affect PvE much more than PvP which is ridiculous considering who was asking for a nerf and where such nerf is needed. Viper/tremor combos can be deadly sometimes even if they don't crit. I really think this nerf will change almost nothing in PvP since most people run full impen, have already really low crit chance and magicka ones use dmg shields that cannot be crit.

leepalmer95

Tyrion87 wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Well, I don't need a "wider context" to know that such proc sets like Winterborn will be completely useless while nowdays they are still quite viable for some of the group content. Nerfing such sets like Winterborn is clearly a side effect of nerfing the ones that PvPers have been complaining about, i.e. the ones that need a nerf in PvP. Also, imagine a nerf to dmg of Iceheart set... this isn't even funny. This is ridiculous.

Again how do you know they haven't individually updates proc sets in the full patch notes?

Why nerfing them and buffing at the same time?

Nerfing them overall because overall they are too strong.

Then adjusting some tooltips of the less OP ones in order to bring them up on par or at least a similar level of the current strong ones.

Seems reasonable to me.

And you really think ZOS will actually do this? I wouldn't expect that much from them...

And it amazes me how PvP crowd is now defending this nerf, claiming that proc sets are so op in PvE while this was never a case... Please, just stop defending an incompetence of ZOS to separate things that need separation.

The PvP'ers are still whining about the change because it isn't what they wanted since nearly everyone runs Impen anyway but a crit proc from Tremorscale is still deadly all the same

Yeah I know that. That's why I think this nerf will affect PvE much more than PvP which is ridiculous considering who was asking for a nerf and where such nerf is needed. Viper/tremor combos can be deadly sometimes even if they don't crit. I really think this nerf will change almost nothing in PvP since most people run full impen, have already really low crit chance and magicka ones use dmg shields that cannot be crit.

Well everyone still easily has around 40% crit in pvp.

Impen reduces the dmg crits do sure but it's impossible for it to completely get rid of the extra damage.

I'd say in pvp most people have at least 62% extra crit dmg or 72% if your a nb or templar just from cp, some even have more than that from cp.

Even if you have 3300 crit resist which pretty much everyone doesn't that only negates 50% of crit damage.

Thats not including things like the shadow or minor force for trap beast. A lot of builds have higher crit damage than that.

Difference is now is light armor uses get hit with procs when there shields run out they shouldn't be brought to 30% with a viper/veli proc anymore.

bebynnag

a thread calling for people not to get triggered just yet.... filled with people getting triggered!

Vaoh

puffytheslayer wrote: »

a thread calling for people not to get triggered just yet.... filled with people getting triggered!

*sigh*

....yeah a bit lol

I tried to make a non-argument thread. I failed -_-

AzraelKrieg

Vaoh wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

a thread calling for people not to get triggered just yet.... filled with people getting triggered!

*sigh*

....yeah a bit lol

I tried to make a non-argument thread. I failed -_-

Yeah. There was a good chance it would considering how this forum is

pattyLtd

We just a trigger happy bunch ya know

bebynnag

Vaoh wrote: »

puffytheslayer wrote: »

a thread calling for people not to get triggered just yet.... filled with people getting triggered!

*sigh*

....yeah a bit lol

I tried to make a non-argument thread. I failed -_-

at least you tried.....
+1 for that!

GreenSoup2HoT

Vaoh wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

When is PTS?

Early January.

That's what people have told me. Not sure where ZOS stated this though so I can't confirm it (probably mentioned last ESO Live).

ZOS hasn't had an ESO Live since September or October. They stopped doing them and said they were going to revamp the show (probably because of the toxic chat in my opinion). They needed time to get this Jan/Feb patch working solid, probably a lot of internal testing.

I hope its early January like you stated.

LordGavus

Yeah agreed, I'll wait and check to be sure the sky is falling before running to my ZOS proof bunker.

Dubhliam

Vaoh wrote: »

Please everyone..... let's wait until PTS before everyone goes full trigger mode and blows up on each other about this.

Proc sets will no longer Crit next patch. This is great in PvP (little debate) but undecided in PvE (lots of debate).

Fact is, we cannot know just how much this'll truly change things until we see the full patch notes, which include many class balance changes as well as set changes. The PTS will be our way to determine how this nerf will affect PvE, for better or worse.

That is all!

I agree with you, people are raising hell over something that isn't even on the PTS yet.

Although, we CAN theorycraft and pull numbers from there.

For example:

If your average Grothdarr does 2960 DPS, with an 80% crit chance and a 20% crit modifier from the Elfborn passive,
then you will lose 960 overall DPS once it stops critting.

If your overall DPS was 25000, then a 960 DPS loss is 3,84%.
It IS noticeable, but not that big of a deal, really.
I suspect we will se a lot of build diversity after this patch since people will most likely look at other set combinations that don't always include 2 Monster set pieces.

Note: I'm not quite sure how to calculate the 20% crit modifier, I might need to test it. In an alternate way to calculate that modifier, the DPS difference is around 1152 DPS loss, resulting in a 4,61% total DPS loss.

kevlarto_ESO

Vaoh wrote: »

Personally, I am not fond of this change in PvE. Magicka Sorc may become unwanted Regardless, there is no way to prove this with PTS testing.

You could prove it on pts if people would go play on the pts for the purpose of testing, go there it is a ghost town, the only people I see are groups of known exploiters just looking to see what the next exploit will be or what might be over powered, shame really.

Saint_Bud

People start crying, because they afraid that the game maybee gets harder and its not a brain afk bossnuke festivel.