Real Money to ingame money conversion is here!

ArchMikem

Sheezabeast wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

its a cosmetic item, nowhere near pay to win, bunch of cry babies seriously.

BTW the only people that can use that mat are people who already own the motif. . .

Of course it's pay to win. Pay to get rich to buy other things to win.

There is no winning in an MMO. Hell, even getting Emperor in Cyrodiil doesn't mean you won the game. Getting gold for cosmetic items certainly doesn't meet the qualifications of something being pay to win. If Stahlrim armor gave you an extra 20% Frost Damage increase or some other battle stat, THAT would be a pay to win argument. This, not so much.

Even if you can't "Win the Game" in an MMO, you can still "Win" against the other players when it comes to PvP environments.

Sheezabeast

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

its a cosmetic item, nowhere near pay to win, bunch of cry babies seriously.

BTW the only people that can use that mat are people who already own the motif. . .

Of course it's pay to win. Pay to get rich to buy other things to win.

There is no winning in an MMO. Hell, even getting Emperor in Cyrodiil doesn't mean you won the game. Getting gold for cosmetic items certainly doesn't meet the qualifications of something being pay to win. If Stahlrim armor gave you an extra 20% Frost Damage increase or some other battle stat, THAT would be a pay to win argument. This, not so much.

Even if you can't "Win the Game" in an MMO, you can still "Win" against the other players when it comes to PvP environments.

How so? With the drop sets being added to the open world that are available in the PVP towns, how does that equate to winning? Do you mean in like a Charlie Sheen type of winning, or what? I'm really confused how an item you can get gold for like you can get gold for other in game items that are easier and cheaper to obtain than spending real money and converting it to game money equates to winning. If anything its inefficient, not cost-effective, and the only winner is the genetic toilet that persons sense of economics came from.

gard

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I can see a slight connotation here between crown crates and the issue at hand, but it relies on an assumption: that Zos expects us to have the mimic stones on hand from getting them from the crown crates bad luck draws.

And if you don't, they expect you'll buy some from the crown store. It's brilliant. Not do you pay for the motif, you pay for each piece you craft.

Kaizokugari

These stones are useless for anyone not already having bought the motif. The point is, there is now a mechanism so that players who already bought the motif, can theoretically exchange real life money, for gold. If you think it through though, this works economically only inside the "jet set" of the guys owning the motif and deconstructing things for the stone. There is no extra gold poured inside the TESO market, because the stones, which are created via real money, do not create additional gold but instead they leech both real money and TESO gold from the members that participate in the trade, who again, are only people who have the money.

So, you basically have a "jet set" who lose both in game gold and real life money for a vanity item. Do you know when you break the economy and you make them richer? When you actually make the motif and the stones available for the "plebs".

So, for me, the situation is fine as it is. If they do actually make the stones available through small drop rates/grinding e.t.c. in game, that's when the "jet set" can buy economical power via real life money and that's when they Pay To Win.

alexkdd99

ArchMikem wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

its a cosmetic item, nowhere near pay to win, bunch of cry babies seriously.

BTW the only people that can use that mat are people who already own the motif. . .

Of course it's pay to win. Pay to get rich to buy other things to win.

Lol. That is not p2w. It is p2w if an item in the crown store gives you a combat advantage and is not obtainable in game. I really wish people would actually play a game that is p2w for just a week, just so they can see that anything in eso is not P2W and is not even remotely close to p2w.

If someone has bought the motif and bought mimic stones to make some gold then they must really need it. Alot of trouble to go through to get gold in a game where gold is so easily obtainable. Besides with zos making so many things bop and things that aren't are so easy to get, they have shrunk the market size tremendously. Maybe we will see a new style stone market emerge, but probably not.

TLDR, Experience what a real p2w game is and you will see eso is not p2w.

Subfocus

It's not pay to win, but it's paying for exclusives that also net you gold. Problem is, there's not too many large gold sinks in ESO so the value of gold in this game differs from the value of gold in other games.

Sigma957

People that want that motif style will pay for it either by buying the motif from the store and get some mimic stones( I still have a lot of them) or pay someone else to make it for them. If the demand is high them you will pay high but if the demand drops then you can be sure the prices drop accordingly.
It comes down to the individual on how much they are willing to pay or how desperate they want that particular style.

STEVIL

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

More to the point, this is what happens when they don't even give out enough mats to make an entire set. I get the fact people run around with just 5 pieces, but there are lots of people who will either run around with different crafted set pieces or who'll just craft everything in the same set because that's just how they roll. Should have came with at least enough mats to make all the clothing pieces and 4 weapons (better to assume people use 4 weapon slots rather than just 2-H weapons).

cuz you expect folks to pay real money for a motif and use it for just one set?

Really?

11 stones vs 5 in the set at say an increase in cost appropriately for the pack) and you see it as noticably or significantly more acceptable?

Really?

EnviousStruggle

you need months to farm 2 millions of gold to buy godly gear and upgrade all or it to yellow

you can spent real money and get gold in one day and gt this gear faster

its clearly PAY TO WIN

Mojmir

But gold is about useless anyways.

EnviousStruggle

tell me if you will need Spinner sword sharpened
i will see how long you will farm it
or buy it for 500k gold

Bryanonymous

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

you need months to farm 2 millions of gold to buy godly gear and upgrade all or it to yellow

you can spent real money and get gold in one day and gt this gear faster

its clearly PAY TO WIN

You can? Really? These things are flying off the shelf? So you know someone who personally made over a million gold in one day selling these? Smh...

helediron

Back to the topic, i think i sold two sets with Harlequin style with extra 10k per item for the style. This happened when it was new. Next week people started to sell Harlequin style mats, but the prices crashed in EU. I still keep the 10k price per mimic, but that is mostly to push people NOT to buy them.

It's all just a little bit of virtual fun. I have not seen any euros starting to fly into my wallet, have i?

magnusthorek

When I said a while back that Crown Store Exclusives would, regardless on how low would be the level, one of many possible ways of P2W, I was stoned by several players.

Now suck it!

Hand_Bacon

starkerealm wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Mole hill, meet mountain.

BTW, how can crafting be dead and yet a source for "super outrageous cash money conversion" at the same time?

It's almost as if multiple people can have separate, independent perceptions.

It's not a serious problem by any stretch. But it does allow players to convert crowns to gold, which is something ZOS has, in the past, gone to great lengths to avoid. It's not anything really outrageous, but it's something that probably should get addressed, because it is something that the devs don't want happening.

Almost...

However, with the amount of daily hyperbole that makes up the majority of the forum's content, one has to wonder.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed several off-topic and baiting posts from this thread. Please keep your posts civil and constructive.

arkansas_ESO

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/297138/make-items-crafted-in-the-grim-harlequinn-style-bind-on-pickup

Or, at the very least, remove the ability to get the style material from deconstructing items. It completely removes this secondary, player-to-player market, removes the indirect ability to turn crowns into gold, and forces people to buy more mimic stones. ZOS wins, the player mostly wins, yet this change will likely never come

starkerealm

Bryanonymous wrote: »

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

you need months to farm 2 millions of gold to buy godly gear and upgrade all or it to yellow

you can spent real money and get gold in one day and gt this gear faster

its clearly PAY TO WIN

You can? Really? These things are flying off the shelf? So you know someone who personally made over a million gold in one day selling these? Smh...

Off hand, I can think of someone who made 165k in a single transaction...

Sheezabeast

starkerealm wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

you need months to farm 2 millions of gold to buy godly gear and upgrade all or it to yellow

you can spent real money and get gold in one day and gt this gear faster

its clearly PAY TO WIN

You can? Really? These things are flying off the shelf? So you know someone who personally made over a million gold in one day selling these? Smh...

Off hand, I can think of someone who made 165k in a single transaction...

65K+ of that transaction was likely to be the 680 C160 level materials used to craft it, plus about 20k for blue or purple tannins, plus possible enchants on said armor, plus tip for crafting, and then how much the person asserted the value of their mimic stones to be.

starkerealm

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Mole hill, meet mountain.

BTW, how can crafting be dead and yet a source for "super outrageous cash money conversion" at the same time?

It's almost as if multiple people can have separate, independent perceptions.

It's not a serious problem by any stretch. But it does allow players to convert crowns to gold, which is something ZOS has, in the past, gone to great lengths to avoid. It's not anything really outrageous, but it's something that probably should get addressed, because it is something that the devs don't want happening.

Almost...

However, with the amount of daily hyperbole that makes up the majority of the forum's content, one has to wonder.

It truly is shocking, and dismaying the way people having distinct, independent opinions on the nature and severity of issues in the world around one could lead to an utter inability to process available information, leading to a tragic catatonic state.

Or, you know, you could actually look at what people are saying and why.

"Crafting is dead because it's not BIS for trials."

"I wish I could use these cool new motifs, but crafting just isn't BIS anymore, with all these horrible looking drop sets."

"I'm not running trials, so I don't care about BIS. LOOK AT ALL THIS COOL NEW GEAR!"

"Hey kid, ya wanna buy some Stalhrim?"

starkerealm

Sheezabeast wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

EnviousStruggle wrote: »

you need months to farm 2 millions of gold to buy godly gear and upgrade all or it to yellow

you can spent real money and get gold in one day and gt this gear faster

its clearly PAY TO WIN

You can? Really? These things are flying off the shelf? So you know someone who personally made over a million gold in one day selling these? Smh...

Off hand, I can think of someone who made 165k in a single transaction...

65K+ of that transaction was likely to be the 680 C160 level materials used to craft it, plus about 20k for blue or purple tannins, plus possible enchants on said armor, plus tip for crafting, and then how much the person asserted the value of their mimic stones to be.

No, if we take the report at face value, it was 165k for 50 stones. So, the crafter may have made it out of tier 10 mats, and then scrapped... or, more likely, they made 54 iron daggers, and scrapped them.

Dubhliam

3k per style piece?

Yeah, seems about right.

What I don't get is why this is the armageddon. After all, these style items don't have unlimited demand.
At the end of the day, it is a negligible amount of money converted to in game gold. For cosmetic purpose.

I acknowledge it dips into the whole "credit card warrior" theme, but it is far from amassing vast amounts of gold ingame.
Which is far from "winning" since, thanks god, not all sets are BoE.

I'll stay tuned and monitor ZOS's Cash Store policy with caution, but I have not yet seen cause for alarm.

BlackEar

So people spend money on mimic stones to craft Stahlrim and they DE and sell the stones for in game gold???

Glurin

BlackEar wrote: »

So people spend money on mimic stones to craft Stahlrim and they DE and sell the stones for in game gold???

Yup. You got it.

Which is one of several reasons that the style material should drop somewhere in the game world.

Hand_Bacon

starkerealm wrote: »

Or, you know, you could actually look at what people are saying and why.

It seems you are convinced of your own superiority or at least the opinions of those you personally cherry pick.

"Crafting is dead because it's not BIS for trials." and your other yada yada yada...

Good thing nobody runs NMG or TBS for trials anymore. You're right, not hyperbole, just pure fact and information right there.

Taking into account the amount of time it takes to unlock all traits for crafting, which I have done, and the number of people who have quit playing since release, the number of crafters able to make gear is now less than what it once was and is never consistent.

The only truth is that people are unhappy at times, which is what happens when people believe their experience is the most important. Nevermind this is an mmo.

Unfortunately, the unhappy ones are the squeakiest wheels on the forum and those who wish to white knight them.

Aliniel

ZOS, please address this asap before it gets out of hands! This is very close to the Pay To Win (P2W) policy we all want to evade. No one will be happy with this and your reputation may go down.

AlexTech0x

Lol Aion started like this, not its the first reason servers are still on.

Hand_Bacon

starkerealm wrote: »

Off hand, I can think of someone who made 165k in a single transaction...

SMH...

I've seen code's for pets and time cards or crowns go for 500k to 1 mil in guild auctions. These people converting real money to mimic stones to style mats are getting ripped off.

Pheefs

I agree that the style materials should always be obtainable IN the game, however difficult or rare.

...but I don't understand how getting rich from converting mimic stones to gold is pay to WIN?

wenchmore420b14_ESO

This may not technically be "Pay-To-Win", but, buying gold for real money on line is wrong, right? Zos will ban ppl for this, right? Gold spammers get banned, right?
So being able to spend real money for mimic stones and turning it to gold is walking that same line.
I want to acknowledge, I agree the mats SHOULD BE AVAILABLE IN GAME!
But, to try that theory and since Zos allowed this, I took all my mimic stones after Witch's Festival, crafted and deconed for Grimstones. I got 8 stones per 10 pieces deconed.
I made 250k+ gold in 1 day. Had I had more, yes I could have easily made 500k to 1 mill in 1 or 2 days. Yes, they sell. Yes, people buy them in game. Yes, the new motif will be the same. Probably more as this motif is really cool and people really like it. Do I feel bad doing it? Kinda. I only did it as Zos allows it.
I for one wish they would fix this. Put the mats in game for Akatosh's sake!
As mentioned, we have had this discussion going way back to the glass motif. Crown store motifs vs in game availability.
In game lost.......
My 2 septims......