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Can we create good Cold-based sets now please?
Vaoh
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There are three main elements in all TES games: Fire, Frost, and Lightning.
257 sets are available for us to use in all of ESO.
- 62 Heavy Armor sets
- 57 Medium Armor sets
- 58 Light Armor sets
- 8 Variable Armor sets
- 9 Weapon sets
- 28 Undaunted sets
- 35 Crafted sets
Of these 257 sets, a groundbreaking four Cold-based sets exist right now. There is another problem though - they all have severe issues.
When we have to wait on either datamined Spellcrafting (Frostbite+morphs and Ice Armor+morphs) or a datamined future playable class (Warden: Winter's Embrace skill line) to make these Cold-based sets easier to use, there is a problem that actually needs to be addressed. All of them need help.
One is barely even worth putting on this list as it procs Fire Damage, so in truth we are looking at 3 true Cold-based sets.
Here are the only Cold-based sets in all of ESO:
Ysgramor's Birthright - Light Armor
Ice Furnace - Heavy Armor
Winterborn - Light Armor
Iceheart - Undaunted
Does anyone else want to see ZOS actually allow Frost to be a viable element in ESO? Not just something you use when you want to be a special snowflake as you're slain in literally 2 seconds, but rather something pretty unique that players actually take notice of?
Since I first picked up ESO I have always wanted to make a decently strong Ice Mage out of my Magicka Sorc. I waited over a year to see what the datamined Iceheart would do when it finally released alongside new sets. After thorough disappointmemt, I feel this is the only way ZOS might take notice and that there is a chance Ice may become a truly relevant element.
Edited by Vaoh on November 27, 2016 8:40AM 257 sets are available for us to use in all of ESO.
- 62 Heavy Armor sets
- 57 Medium Armor sets
- 58 Light Armor sets
- 8 Variable Armor sets
- 9 Weapon sets
- 28 Undaunted sets
- 35 Crafted sets
Of these 257 sets, a groundbreaking four Cold-based sets exist right now. There is another problem though - they all have severe issues.
When we have to wait on either datamined Spellcrafting (Frostbite+morphs and Ice Armor+morphs) or a datamined future playable class (Warden: Winter's Embrace skill line) to make these Cold-based sets easier to use, there is a problem that actually needs to be addressed. All of them need help.
One is barely even worth putting on this list as it procs Fire Damage, so in truth we are looking at 3 true Cold-based sets.
Here are the only Cold-based sets in all of ESO:
Ysgramor's Birthright - Light Armor
(2 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Cold Damage abilities
Issues:
1) All sources of Cold Damage (besides a Cold enchant, the Ice Comet ultimate, or other Cold Damage procs) come from the Ice Staff. If you want to even remotely play as an Ice Mage, you WILL slot an Ice Staff by ZOS's design.
2) You may as well use the Spider Cultist set, which works exactly the same, except it increases the Spell Damage of all Destruction Staff abilities by 400. This fully buffs Force Shock, rather than just a third of its damage. In other words, this Cold-based set is almost completely useless.
3) I don't think this set will ever change as it needs to stay consistent with other sets that function this way, though special circumstances such as this should be enough to buff its 5-piece to 500-600 Spell Damage. Maybe 400 but with a 10% on Cold Damage to proc 200 Spell Damage buff for 10 seconds.
(3 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Adds 400 Spell Damage to your Cold Damage abilities
Issues:
1) All sources of Cold Damage (besides a Cold enchant, the Ice Comet ultimate, or other Cold Damage procs) come from the Ice Staff. If you want to even remotely play as an Ice Mage, you WILL slot an Ice Staff by ZOS's design.
2) You may as well use the Spider Cultist set, which works exactly the same, except it increases the Spell Damage of all Destruction Staff abilities by 400. This fully buffs Force Shock, rather than just a third of its damage. In other words, this Cold-based set is almost completely useless.
3) I don't think this set will ever change as it needs to stay consistent with other sets that function this way, though special circumstances such as this should be enough to buff its 5-piece to 500-600 Spell Damage. Maybe 400 but with a 10% on Cold Damage to proc 200 Spell Damage buff for 10 seconds.
Ice Furnace - Heavy Armor
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Frostfire
When you deal direct damage with a Frost Damage ability, you have a 50% chance to deal an additional 1046 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters around the initial target. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Issues:
1) It is Heavy Armor, which already makes it tough to play a strong Ice Mage build as you'll be going for Light Armor.
2) The 4-piece is Weapon Damage. Is this a joke? Spell Critical was bad enough since you're going to shoot for raw damage rather than PvE DPS that can be negated in PvP through Impenetrable and Crit resistance. Ice Furnace has a terrible 2/3/4 piece bonus for anyone actually looking to make a Cold-based build.
3) The damage it procs is WEAK. In PvP, we are looking at less damage than from a light attack from your Resto Staff. There is also a cooldown which adds insult to injury, and only procs off of direct damage (no DoTs). I'd rather slot Lvl30 Blue lvl 30 Julianos over CP160 Gold Ice Furnace. There is CP160 Gold Ice Furnace jewelry going for 10-20K, despite it no longer being obtainable, as it never sells.
4) It deals Fire Damage. I mainly included this set because 3 Cold Damage sets sounds even worse than 4......
5) The very concept of Ice Furnace sucks. Even with massive buffs, this set would STILL suck and never see use. Redisign it. Name it Frost Knight or something and allow it to buff Ice skills and maybe even have a usefull damage+buff/heal proc.
(3 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical
(4 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(5 items) Frostfire
When you deal direct damage with a Frost Damage ability, you have a 50% chance to deal an additional 1046 Flame Damage to all enemies within 8 meters around the initial target. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Issues:
1) It is Heavy Armor, which already makes it tough to play a strong Ice Mage build as you'll be going for Light Armor.
2) The 4-piece is Weapon Damage. Is this a joke? Spell Critical was bad enough since you're going to shoot for raw damage rather than PvE DPS that can be negated in PvP through Impenetrable and Crit resistance. Ice Furnace has a terrible 2/3/4 piece bonus for anyone actually looking to make a Cold-based build.
3) The damage it procs is WEAK. In PvP, we are looking at less damage than from a light attack from your Resto Staff. There is also a cooldown which adds insult to injury, and only procs off of direct damage (no DoTs). I'd rather slot Lvl30 Blue lvl 30 Julianos over CP160 Gold Ice Furnace. There is CP160 Gold Ice Furnace jewelry going for 10-20K, despite it no longer being obtainable, as it never sells.
4) It deals Fire Damage. I mainly included this set because 3 Cold Damage sets sounds even worse than 4......
5) The very concept of Ice Furnace sucks. Even with massive buffs, this set would STILL suck and never see use. Redisign it. Name it Frost Knight or something and allow it to buff Ice skills and maybe even have a usefull damage+buff/heal proc.
Winterborn - Light Armor
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Winterborn
When you deal damage with a Cold Damage ability, you have an 8% chance to summon an ice pillar that deals 7967 Cold Damage to all enemies in a 3 meter radius. The ice pillar persists for 2 seconds and reduces the Movment Speed of all enemies within the radius by 60%.
Issues:
1) This is the only decent Cold-based set. Still, the proc damage is not on par with other proc sets. Almost all other proc sets are significantly easier and more controllable to proc.
2) The hidden cooldown does not make this a desirable set when the already low proc chance is taken into account.
3) There are no weapons for this set. In order to use it, you will give up 5 armor pieces. Remember that you are required to slot an Ice Staff, limiting your available set slots to afterward 5 (besides your second weapon bar). Now you can only slot a few set combinations, as you wanted to be an Ice Mage:
- Monster Set (probably Iceheart)+Willpower+Maelstrom/Master Ice Staff+random backbar (likely a Master Resto)
- Monster Set (probably Iceheart)+Clever Alchemist/Lich/other strong proceed set with duration (with Dual Wield or 1H/S backbar)+Maelstrom/Master Ice Staff
- Ice Furnace/Ysgramor's Birthright+Maelstrom/Master Ice Staff+random backbar (likely a Master Resto)
Slotting Winterborn definitely looks pretty cool, but it is not worth it if you plan on actually being strong. On an Ice build, it is usually worth it though as you have no other option at all for a semi-decent 5-piece.
(3 items) Adds Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(5 items) Winterborn
When you deal damage with a Cold Damage ability, you have an 8% chance to summon an ice pillar that deals 7967 Cold Damage to all enemies in a 3 meter radius. The ice pillar persists for 2 seconds and reduces the Movment Speed of all enemies within the radius by 60%.
Issues:
1) This is the only decent Cold-based set. Still, the proc damage is not on par with other proc sets. Almost all other proc sets are significantly easier and more controllable to proc.
2) The hidden cooldown does not make this a desirable set when the already low proc chance is taken into account.
3) There are no weapons for this set. In order to use it, you will give up 5 armor pieces. Remember that you are required to slot an Ice Staff, limiting your available set slots to afterward 5 (besides your second weapon bar). Now you can only slot a few set combinations, as you wanted to be an Ice Mage:
- Monster Set (probably Iceheart)+Willpower+Maelstrom/Master Ice Staff+random backbar (likely a Master Resto)
- Monster Set (probably Iceheart)+Clever Alchemist/Lich/other strong proceed set with duration (with Dual Wield or 1H/S backbar)+Maelstrom/Master Ice Staff
- Ice Furnace/Ysgramor's Birthright+Maelstrom/Master Ice Staff+random backbar (likely a Master Resto)
Slotting Winterborn definitely looks pretty cool, but it is not worth it if you plan on actually being strong. On an Ice build, it is usually worth it though as you have no other option at all for a semi-decent 5-piece.
Iceheart - Undaunted
(1 items) Adds 688 Spell Critical
(2 items) When you deal Critical Damage, you have a 20% chance to gain a damage shield that absorbs 8600 damage for 6 seconds. While the damage shield holds, you deal 770 Cold Damage to all enemies within 5 meters of you every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
1) If you are using an Ice Build, you don't care for your PvE DPS very much. Plain and simple. Nothing else to it. Winterborn/Ysgramor's Birthright/Iceheart/Ice Furnace will never be even remotely viable for good PvE DPS. You are running a Cold-based build for fun and most importantly for PvP and you should have a shot at performing well there. That's where the lack of attention displayed in the design in Ysgramor's Birthright and Ice Furnace once again shows itself.
- Weapon Damage is not for a Cold-based build (Ice Furnace)
- Extra damage toward all your Destruction Staff skills except Force Shock doesn't beat getting extra damage toward all your Destruction Staff skills including Force Shock unless totally depending on your Ice Comet ult. (Ysgramor's Birthright)
2) Iceheart's 1-piece is badly designed because it provides Spell Critical, which is negligent in PvP where you fight opponents stacked in Heavy Armor, Impenetrable Crit resistance, and even shields which negate critical hits. To be clear, this 1-piece does have some use - Magicka Templars/NBs love the 1-piece bonus for PvE DPS. It should give Spell Damage, Max Magicka, or Magicka Recovery. Spell Critical can become part of a different monster set. Nerien'eth would benefit from this a lot.
3) Iceheart's 2-piece is not only pitifully weak to Ice builds (who avoid Crit so real damage can be stacked for PvP) but it is also weak even on builds with high crit chance.
- The AoE range is small
- The shield is weak
- It has a cooldown
- The damage is WEAK
4) Iceheart's 2-piece is almost useless. Of course, this set is strong in terms of aesthetics. Too bad it is not at all what Cold-based builds needed though. Rework the 2-piece bonus entirely and stay away fro these Crit-focused ideas. Also look into making it strong rather than almost-not-totally-useless/only-for-RPers.
(2 items) When you deal Critical Damage, you have a 20% chance to gain a damage shield that absorbs 8600 damage for 6 seconds. While the damage shield holds, you deal 770 Cold Damage to all enemies within 5 meters of you every 1 second. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds.
1) If you are using an Ice Build, you don't care for your PvE DPS very much. Plain and simple. Nothing else to it. Winterborn/Ysgramor's Birthright/Iceheart/Ice Furnace will never be even remotely viable for good PvE DPS. You are running a Cold-based build for fun and most importantly for PvP and you should have a shot at performing well there. That's where the lack of attention displayed in the design in Ysgramor's Birthright and Ice Furnace once again shows itself.
- Weapon Damage is not for a Cold-based build (Ice Furnace)
- Extra damage toward all your Destruction Staff skills except Force Shock doesn't beat getting extra damage toward all your Destruction Staff skills including Force Shock unless totally depending on your Ice Comet ult. (Ysgramor's Birthright)
2) Iceheart's 1-piece is badly designed because it provides Spell Critical, which is negligent in PvP where you fight opponents stacked in Heavy Armor, Impenetrable Crit resistance, and even shields which negate critical hits. To be clear, this 1-piece does have some use - Magicka Templars/NBs love the 1-piece bonus for PvE DPS. It should give Spell Damage, Max Magicka, or Magicka Recovery. Spell Critical can become part of a different monster set. Nerien'eth would benefit from this a lot.
3) Iceheart's 2-piece is not only pitifully weak to Ice builds (who avoid Crit so real damage can be stacked for PvP) but it is also weak even on builds with high crit chance.
- The AoE range is small
- The shield is weak
- It has a cooldown
- The damage is WEAK
4) Iceheart's 2-piece is almost useless. Of course, this set is strong in terms of aesthetics. Too bad it is not at all what Cold-based builds needed though. Rework the 2-piece bonus entirely and stay away fro these Crit-focused ideas. Also look into making it strong rather than almost-not-totally-useless/only-for-RPers.
Does anyone else want to see ZOS actually allow Frost to be a viable element in ESO? Not just something you use when you want to be a special snowflake as you're slain in literally 2 seconds, but rather something pretty unique that players actually take notice of?
Since I first picked up ESO I have always wanted to make a decently strong Ice Mage out of my Magicka Sorc. I waited over a year to see what the datamined Iceheart would do when it finally released alongside new sets. After thorough disappointmemt, I feel this is the only way ZOS might take notice and that there is a chance Ice may become a truly relevant element.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Good point about the ysgramor vs spider cultist especially. The latter completely dominates the former except for ice comet (which you don't want to use - with a destro staff elemental storm is far superior)1 -
Buffler✭✭✭✭✭
✭I want to create a good ice build...only because after countless vmsa runs i have several sharp ice staffs and full divines winterborn set0 -
Docmandu✭✭✭✭✭
✭One thing worth mentioning, you can wear Ysgramor AND spider cultist together, will cost you a monster set though and most likely wouldn't really be all that great. (throw in the Maelstrom Frost Staff for a bit more spell damage).
tbh much easier to just throw on random stamina gear and 1-shot people.
Edited by Docmandu on November 27, 2016 10:55AM0 -
stevepdodson_ESO888✭✭✭✭✭
✭i made my "Ice Mage" from a magplar with Winterborn (5 armour) and Mother's Sorrow (jewellery + 2 swords) + Iceheart, that way i can go in with a heavy/force pulse from my ice stick and plop down Blockade before switching to DW Mother's Sorrow
the higher crit on my DW bar when i go jabbety-jab-jab has a greater chance of proccing Iceheart (as it is procced from crit dmg) which in turn can proc Winterborn as it is Frost dmg...and i get a shield to help keep me alive as i haven't managed to kill anything by that time
i have managed to fight my way out of a wet paper bag this way...and i look as cool as "fudge"
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Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭I've been making countless suggestions for frost sets or frost damage in general, especially after Wrobel confirmed to take a look at Ice Furnace, Ice Heart and Shadowrend (the clannfear summoning monster set).
Like:
- Ysgramors Birthright: Improve or simply increase the 5pc Frost Damage bonus, so there is a reason to chose it over Spider Cultists in some way, let it do something unique besides the dull Damage increase. Maybe let Enemies affected by Frost Dots receive additional damage/ Frost abilities used against those are reduced in cost, whatever. Anything
- Ice Furnace: Finally change the 4pc bonus to Spell Damage and also replace the Spellcrit with another Spell Damage or Max Magicka Bonus. Also, let the 5pc bonus work with Dots and/or remove cooldown. And why on Nirn would the AoE damage (that is way too low) be fire damage anyway, make it Frost ( I know its called Ice Furnace, but come on, ice can "burn" too, if your body is undercooled).
- Iceheart: Why not change the 1pc bonus to Spellpenetration or Spelldamage? There is no source for that like Stamina has with velidreth (Both stamina and magicka can use Kena). The Spellcrit would look better on Chokethorn I'd say.
- Winterborn: I actually think that set is fine, it just needs to synergize more with other sets/abilities to show full potential - so after fixing stuff above, this one improves, too, that is my prediction.
Frost Damage also needs some more sources in General, besides the Staff Ability and Meteor.
Here some suggestions I made:
Old: Scalding Rune(Mages Guild); 2 options:
New:
1 ) Glacial Rune: Now deals Frost Damage and immobilizes everyone hit.
--> This is basically the counterpart to fire rune in what it does, just with one of Frost damages characteristic Secondary Effects, "immobilize".
2 ) Freezing Rune: A Frost Damage over time for 10 seconds, to everyone hit, also grants Minor Heroism for 9 seconds.
--> This is to bring more Proc Chance and possibility for Cold Damage Builds and a new Source for Minor Heroism to Magicka classes.
Maybe even add a short lasting slow to those hit? Basically a ranged slow trap?
Old: Baleful Mist (Vampire Tree):
New:
1 ) Icy Mist: Dissolve into a cold mist, reducing your damage taken by 75% and dealing 512 Frost Damage to nearby enemies every 0.5 seconds for 4 seconds. Also removes and grants you immunity to all crowd control and immobilization effects while active, but you cannot be healed and your Magicka Recovery is disabled. Close Enemies are snared for 20% while you remain in Mist Form.
--> New Source of Frost Damage and Snare
I think these ideas work especially because everyone has access to these trees, not restricting them to lets say classes only.
Edit: Talking about classes...
Lets hope the rumours are true, and the "Warden" will be reintroduced with its to cold damage dedicated Skill Tree. We atleast got promised a bunch of Frost Abilities, too, so who knows...Edited by Birdovic on November 27, 2016 12:40PMAttempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of Combat to feel awesome"0 -
stevepdodson_ESO888✭✭✭✭✭
✭how about making Nords have a bonus to doing Frost damage (instead of giving it to a Dunmer...doh)1 -
runagate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I keep trying to play on my frost build magicka NB but there's something about the icicle staff light attack animation or something that makes even instacast class skills and the destro skills (except, oddly, the AoE) fail to fire at all when I attempt to weave them. Not even animation cancel them, just simple skill/left click alternation. It certainly doesn't help the semi-viability of using the frost Sets.0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How about a new class with Ice skills? *cough*Warden*cough*
"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »how about making Nords have a bonus to doing Frost damage (instead of giving it to a Dunmer...doh)
I think thats because Nord are not good with Frost Magic, or Magic at all. They are more of the "robust" kind of people, and receive 6% reduced damage, which I think is better than the 2% cold damage bonus the dunmer receive.
They got Frost Resistance instead because of their environment (like Dunmer have Fire Resistance, due to living in volcanic regions).
@Tryxus
Yup, waiting for that, too. But to be honest, I'd prefer them to introduce the 3 leaked Skill Trees under "World Skills", so everyone has access, instead of limiting it to another class, which needs tweaking/balancing for another 3 years to work atleast 80% correctly
Edited by Birdovic on November 27, 2016 2:15PMAttempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of Combat to feel awesome"0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »how about making Nords have a bonus to doing Frost damage (instead of giving it to a Dunmer...doh)
I think thats because Nord are not good with Frost Magic, or Magic at all. They are more of the "robust" kind of people, and receive 6% reduced damage, which I think is better than the 2% cold damage bonus the dunmer receive.
They got Frost Resistance instead because of their environment (like Dunmer have Fire Resistance, due to living in volcanic regions).
Tryxus
Yup, waiting for that, too. But to be honest, I'd prefer them to introduce the 3 leaked Skill Trees under "World Skills", so everyone has access, instead of limiting it to another class, which needs tweaking/balancing for another 3 years to work atleast 80% correctly
Maybe, but in the end ZOS is gonna have to start thinking about adding new classes. And at least the Warden was semi-finished before they scrapped it, so I wouldn't mind it being added and receiving an Ice skill line...
Also about the Nords not being good with Magic: did you know that worship of the Nordic version of Julianos, Jhunal, became extinct because there aren't many intelligent Nords? Think I saw that on either a loading screen or an ingame book, but can't recall where... "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
Birdovic✭✭✭✭✭stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »how about making Nords have a bonus to doing Frost damage (instead of giving it to a Dunmer...doh)
I think thats because Nord are not good with Frost Magic, or Magic at all. They are more of the "robust" kind of people, and receive 6% reduced damage, which I think is better than the 2% cold damage bonus the dunmer receive.
They got Frost Resistance instead because of their environment (like Dunmer have Fire Resistance, due to living in volcanic regions).
Tryxus
Yup, waiting for that, too. But to be honest, I'd prefer them to introduce the 3 leaked Skill Trees under "World Skills", so everyone has access, instead of limiting it to another class, which needs tweaking/balancing for another 3 years to work atleast 80% correctly
Maybe, but in the end ZOS is gonna have to start thinking about adding new classes. And at least the Warden was semi-finished before they scrapped it, so I wouldn't mind it being added and receiving an Ice skill line...
Also about the Nords not being good with Magic: did you know that worship of the Nordic version of Julianos, Jhunal, became extinct because there aren't many intelligent Nords? Think I saw that on either a loading screen or an ingame book, but can't recall where...
That sounds seriously hilarious
and encourages me to find more of that stuff, even if im not really interested in Nords actually (Dunmer at heart ) Attempt and Thoughts to Overhaul Scaling, Attribute System and Enchantments
Improving the Sorcerer class: Ideas
"We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of Combat to feel awesome"0
