"You have queued too recently"

Shogunami

So I just got back to ESO for the first time in months now, thought it'd be a good idea to join a dungeon.

So I queue up for random dungeon and was surprised to find that I got a group in just a few minutes. I join, it's Tempest Island and I port to the dungeon.
After 10 seconds two guys leave. Then after another 5 seconds the last guy leaves. I'm ported out.

Now I have to wait 15 minutes to queue again?

This is beyond messed up. Here I was, excited to start playing ESO again and all I get is a slap in the face.
Goddamnit.


Edit: The guys said a guildie wanted to play with them and that's why they left. Apparently I shouldn't have gotten a timer.
Well guess what, I DID.

It would appear I'm rolling a new char.

WalksonGraves

The 15 minute timer was incredibly stupid design choice. It punishes everyone but the intended targets it was designed for. I hope the person who suggested it was fired, they literally wasted years of combined time with a thoughtless change.

Shogunami

WalksonGraves wrote: »

It punishes everyone but the intended targets it was designed for.

Exactly this. It's incredibly stupid. Why would the system penalize the only person in the group that wants to play with the group the group finder paired him/her up with? And the people who should be penalized they can just get another member and keep going.

Just wow.
WOW ZOS, YOU HEAR ME? WOOOW!!!
Amazing.

geofhob14_ESO

As if it wasn't hard enough getting pledges done on my DPS, I was "trolled" with 3 penalties in a row due to joining a half-completed dungeon, joining another that disbanded straight-away, etc.

If your queuing for a specific dungeon for pledge, it sucks being placed in a half-completed dungeon (and half-completed usually means the team dynamics already suck)

Dasovaruilos

I said it before, it is the "Cobra Effect" (the solution to the problem made it worse).

They wanted to prevent group hoping from players that wanted to have the perfect group and would leave and queue again in succession.

Now those players just sit in a group and kick everyone they don't like out and still don't get the timers, while the innocent other player that didn't impress the first one gets the timer.

Also, how about when you get grouped but can't travel to the dungeon because "Instance Full"? Yep, timer...

Leader disband group? Yep, you get timer as well...

Kicked just for being low CP without even having time to enter the dungeon? Yep, you get the timer...

Want to have the perfect group using Activity Finder kicking everyone that you don't like? No timer for you!

Shogunami

It's quite mind-boggling actually, I can't believe that they implemented a system such as this - I've never heard of anything dumber in an MMO.

What they intended was all good and well, but how it works in practice is just.. WOW.

Dasovaruilos

Shogunami wrote: »

It's quite mind-boggling actually, I can't believe that they implemented a system such as this - I've never heard of anything dumber in an MMO.

What they intended was all good and well, but how it works in practice is just.. WOW.

The intention is definetly good. The implementation that was terrible and had the complete opposite effect.

The timer should apply only to:

1. Players that leave group before "Activity Complete"
2. Leaders that disband group before "Activity Complete"
3. Players kicked before "Activity Complete" but with some sort of protection to avoid people being kicked before even fighting, like a X minutes lock or a first boss lock.

The timer should be the exception, not the rule.

Argah

hugocbp wrote: »

Shogunami wrote: »

It's quite mind-boggling actually, I can't believe that they implemented a system such as this - I've never heard of anything dumber in an MMO.

What they intended was all good and well, but how it works in practice is just.. WOW.

The intention is definetly good. The implementation that was terrible and had the complete opposite effect.

The timer should apply only to:

1. Players that leave group before "Activity Complete"
2. Leaders that disband group before "Activity Complete"
3. Players kicked before "Activity Complete" but with some sort of protection to avoid people being kicked before even fighting, like a X minutes lock or a first boss lock.

The timer should be the exception, not the rule.

I'm a low cp player who's been kicked a fair few times at start but would still be against anyone having a timer for leaving, if so called better players don't like the group they should have the freedom to leave and search again straight away, they need to just get rid of timer altogether.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

The thing I like most about it? They broke the group finder for a couple months putting this in. Poorly thought out plan followed by poor execution. We obviously need to buy more costumes.

Dasovaruilos

Argah wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

Shogunami wrote: »

It's quite mind-boggling actually, I can't believe that they implemented a system such as this - I've never heard of anything dumber in an MMO.

What they intended was all good and well, but how it works in practice is just.. WOW.

The intention is definetly good. The implementation that was terrible and had the complete opposite effect.

The timer should apply only to:

1. Players that leave group before "Activity Complete"
2. Leaders that disband group before "Activity Complete"
3. Players kicked before "Activity Complete" but with some sort of protection to avoid people being kicked before even fighting, like a X minutes lock or a first boss lock.

The timer should be the exception, not the rule.

I'm a low cp player who's been kicked a fair few times at start but would still be against anyone having a timer for leaving, if so called better players don't like the group they should have the freedom to leave and search again straight away, they need to just get rid of timer altogether.

Right now having no timer is better than what is currently there, but I do think there should be a penalty for people leaving the group too soon. It was terrible for low levels before when 6, 7 people would be group and instantly leave. Most dungeons would never be completed if someone left or dropped in the middle.

Asardes

The time penalty is one of the reasons I've mostly stopped using the grouping tool for actually finding groups after DB update. I only use it nowadays as a more comfortable way of porting in a dungeon with guild/zone chat pre-made groups. After One Tamriel running normal dungeons is too unrewarding compared to veteran versions, and most of those I won't run with PuGs anyway because most people have no clue about the mechanics and wipe again and again. Some will even queue for a role they have no skill, gear and knowledge to fill. On top of that the GF sometimes bugs out and disbands the group mid or even end dungeon, prematurely ending your run. So the Group Finder is a closed and never to be opened again chapter for me, partly because of bad design, partly because of equally bad attitudes from people using it.

Argah

hugocbp wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

Shogunami wrote: »

It's quite mind-boggling actually, I can't believe that they implemented a system such as this - I've never heard of anything dumber in an MMO.

What they intended was all good and well, but how it works in practice is just.. WOW.

The intention is definetly good. The implementation that was terrible and had the complete opposite effect.

The timer should apply only to:

1. Players that leave group before "Activity Complete"
2. Leaders that disband group before "Activity Complete"
3. Players kicked before "Activity Complete" but with some sort of protection to avoid people being kicked before even fighting, like a X minutes lock or a first boss lock.

The timer should be the exception, not the rule.

I'm a low cp player who's been kicked a fair few times at start but would still be against anyone having a timer for leaving, if so called better players don't like the group they should have the freedom to leave and search again straight away, they need to just get rid of timer altogether.

Right now having no timer is better than what is currently there, but I do think there should be a penalty for people leaving the group too soon. It was terrible for low levels before when 6, 7 people would be group and instantly leave. Most dungeons would never be completed if someone left or dropped in the middle.

I've only been around a few month so was unaware of that problem but I hear ya, seems like they're basically stuck you can't remove kick because its needed for afk/trolls and obviously need timer for leaving due to example you describe so I suppose my stance on the matter now would be no timer for being kicked.

Dasovaruilos

Argah wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

Argah wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

Shogunami wrote: »

It's quite mind-boggling actually, I can't believe that they implemented a system such as this - I've never heard of anything dumber in an MMO.

What they intended was all good and well, but how it works in practice is just.. WOW.

The intention is definetly good. The implementation that was terrible and had the complete opposite effect.

The timer should apply only to:

1. Players that leave group before "Activity Complete"
2. Leaders that disband group before "Activity Complete"
3. Players kicked before "Activity Complete" but with some sort of protection to avoid people being kicked before even fighting, like a X minutes lock or a first boss lock.

The timer should be the exception, not the rule.

I'm a low cp player who's been kicked a fair few times at start but would still be against anyone having a timer for leaving, if so called better players don't like the group they should have the freedom to leave and search again straight away, they need to just get rid of timer altogether.

Right now having no timer is better than what is currently there, but I do think there should be a penalty for people leaving the group too soon. It was terrible for low levels before when 6, 7 people would be group and instantly leave. Most dungeons would never be completed if someone left or dropped in the middle.

I've only been around a few month so was unaware of that problem but I hear ya, seems like they're basically stuck you can't remove kick because its needed for afk/trolls and obviously need timer for leaving due to example you describe so I suppose my stance on the matter now would be no timer for being kicked.

Before OT we had a normal pledge and a vet pledge. It was very hard to find groups for vet pledges if you had even one low VR / CP in the group, because others would instantly left when they saw the low numbers. It was very annoing.

But the timer as it is now is 100x more annoying, for sure.

ThinkerOfThings

So, many of us agree this can be an issue, does anyone have any design or developmental solutions to this issue:

Here are a couple I thought of, as one does:

Vet dungeons should have a CP minimum/gear set standard, let's be honest here, Vet dungeons can be perilous prior to a certain point, if you want to attempt a vet dungeon prior to this point, do so with a pre-arranged group. Otherwise a CP minimum for entering vet dungeons should be available, also and this one is a big one, smart tracking of Spell or Physical Damage for DPS, perhaps an invisible tag on gear sets to ensure players have at least one full gear set at purple quality or higher. Is the Tank wielding a sword and shield or do they have aggro grabbing moves slotted on their bar. Is the healer using at least one healing staff and/or do they have x number of healing/damage mitigation skills.

Playing with others in a dungeon requires players to know a roll and fulfill that roll. Not all players may know this, so to ease them into that roll, perhaps dungeon tutorial areas could be developed, perhaps with gear that would be beneficial but not better than regular gear sets that taught new or returning players what each roll was and provided some tips on how to excel in that roll. Tanks would have to taunt x number of monsters and protect x number of villagers, healers would have to heal and mitigate damage for x number of villagers, DPS, well you got Maelstrom Arena in some ways that works, but in this case it would be something available to all players and provided different rewards.

If they decide to keep the queue timer, smart tracking of kicks and disbands would be useful, if kicked from a group once or twice or if the party disbanded within the timer's range, the timer would auto end, allowing players to get back into queue quicker.

Well there are some thoughts, does anyone have any other ideas on how to improve this system?

snakester320

There have been countless threads made on this issue BUT ZOS stick there fingers in there ears and hum away.. Like the countless other ridiculous ideas and disgraceful ideas they just seem to ignore..

AlnilamE

I don't think you can "disband" a group formed via the dungeon finder. You can leave or you can vote to kick, that's it.

ThinkerOfThings wrote: »

So, many of us agree this can be an issue, does anyone have any design or developmental solutions to this issue:

Here are a couple I thought of, as one does:

Vet dungeons should have a CP minimum/gear set standard, let's be honest here, Vet dungeons can be perilous prior to a certain point, if you want to attempt a vet dungeon prior to this point, do so with a pre-arranged group. Otherwise a CP minimum for entering vet dungeons should be available, also and this one is a big one, smart tracking of Spell or Physical Damage for DPS, perhaps an invisible tag on gear sets to ensure players have at least one full gear set at purple quality or higher. Is the Tank wielding a sword and shield or do they have aggro grabbing moves slotted on their bar. Is the healer using at least one healing staff and/or do they have x number of healing/damage mitigation skills.

Vet dungeons are fine the way they are.

Playing with others in a dungeon requires players to know a roll and fulfill that roll. Not all players may know this, so to ease them into that roll, perhaps dungeon tutorial areas could be developed, perhaps with gear that would be beneficial but not better than regular gear sets that taught new or returning players what each roll was and provided some tips on how to excel in that roll. Tanks would have to taunt x number of monsters and protect x number of villagers, healers would have to heal and mitigate damage for x number of villagers, DPS, well you got Maelstrom Arena in some ways that works, but in this case it would be something available to all players and provided different rewards.

People learn to play in a group by playing in a group. Whenever I run a random dungeon, I always ask people if it's their first time there and I'll give them a quick run-down of the fights if needed. If things go south we'll stop and analyze strategy and try again. I have not failed a dungeon run I queued for via the group finder yet.

If you use the group finder, you have to accept that you may encounter less experienced players, and they will not learn the dungeons if they always get kicked when they try to run them.


There were a couple of issues with the group finder before the timer:

1. Because you couldn't group cross-faction at that time outside the group finder, if you wanted to bring in a friend that had a character in a different faction, you had to have them queue as the missing role in your group and if a stranger popped in instead, you'd kick them until your friend popped. And if your friend ended up in the wrong group they'd leave immediately as well.
2. The problem with not having a cooldown is that you are likely to be put into the same group again and again, even if you don't want to run with them. So maybe they could experiment with making the cooldown 5 minutes instead of 15? That would not be the end of the world. Though honestly, people who are trying to do 3 vet HM pledges in an hour should really not use the group finder for getting their groups.

Deheart

Here is an idea, make it so you can't kick anyone for 15 min after the random group is filled. If you don't like the people or dungeon or etc. YOU have to leave and suffer the penalty instead of forcing others to suffer a penalty simply for existing, which is what I keep hearing is the big problem.

Seriously, nearly every time I hear a complaint about random grouping, its because someone was kicked from the group for some oddball reason before they actually started doing anything. NOT the intention of the kick feature I would assume.