Buffing Weapon Traits

idk

@Nifty2g seems like an experienced player. What experience are you basing your thoughts on? It just seems like your thoughts on the traits comes from experience.

Solus

cpuScientist wrote: »

As it stands right now the weapon trait system is very unbalanced there is Sharpened and there is TRASH. The only thing that comes slightly close is precise but even this is vastly weak compared to sharpened. Now ZOS can either fix this or leave it be and make the game very limiting. And if they do fix it, it might be a fix through nerf, but whatever need to help with build diversity and make it so getting anything but sharpened doesn't end in rage.

So my proposal for the buffs are as follows. These are all at gold improvement.

Precise - 5% crit chance and 5% crit damage. Making this a very strong dps boost. (The percentages can be played with)

Decisive - simple 15% reduce ultimate cost. As it is now it barely helps with ultimate gen.

NirnHoned - 500 weapon and spell (as it is now it barely competes with precise and is outclassed entirely by sharpened.

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

Charged - this is just the worst. And needs to be fully replaced. My best guess to keep with the spirit of the trait would be 10% chance to cause an explosion of the status effect type. (But the last thing we need is more procs lol)

Powered - good as is for healers. Perhaps a small boost but its good.

Defending - good as is.

Training - good as is, but honestly just roll prosperous into training as well and replace that on armor...

Sharpened - GOOD as is.

Please make these traits mean something. Sure there will always br a bis. But atleast with some changes to boost other traits, BIS won't as OP in comparison.

The next patch is supposed to be about balance. So please don't forget to balance weapon traits.

*cough* also balance 2h weaponry to count as two in a set*cough cough*

WhiteMage

I support changes like these as a small part of a much larger balancing effort.

cpuScientist

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Nifty2g seems like an experienced player. What experience are you basing your thoughts on? It just seems like your thoughts on the traits comes from experience.

LOL Nifty is quite experienced. I run trials with my guild and have a degree in math and science. My buddy who helps me test these had a doctorate in mathematics aswell.

You can run the number on all these traits. I just did it for you on Infused as well. It's good in theory, but on paper that infused crusher is getting 324 more pen, and you can already get bosses a few thousand over pen so that is not really needed.

But I am not here to debate certain areas where these traits are mildly useful. And Nifty is 100% correct on where they would be best served.

BUT when you run the numbers on traits like decisive it's just God awful ultimate Gen. When you check out infused, it's a Small bump. If your in a good group then it's being wasted. If your in a bad group go for it. When you look at the weapon traits and there mild mannered bonuses. Then you watch at the dramatic effect sharpened has. It's not balanced. Not at all.

KingYogi415

Love my powered vMA staff.

Don't mess with it!

Asmael

cpuScientist wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Nifty2g seems like an experienced player. What experience are you basing your thoughts on? It just seems like your thoughts on the traits comes from experience.

LOL Nifty is quite experienced. I run trials with my guild and have a degree in math and science. My buddy who helps me test these had a doctorate in mathematics aswell.

You can run the number on all these traits. I just did it for you on Infused as well. It's good in theory, but on paper that infused crusher is getting 324 more pen, and you can already get bosses a few thousand over pen so that is not really needed.

But I am not here to debate certain areas where these traits are mildly useful. And Nifty is 100% correct on where they would be best served.

BUT when you run the numbers on traits like decisive it's just God awful ultimate Gen. When you check out infused, it's a Small bump. If your in a good group then it's being wasted. If your in a bad group go for it. When you look at the weapon traits and there mild mannered bonuses. Then you watch at the dramatic effect sharpened has. It's not balanced. Not at all.

It's near impossible to get a perfect uptime on Alkosh and Crusher in practice.

Raids with a majority of magicka users won't always have someone running NMG / Sunderflame, and there's no point if you're the only stam DD.

In both cases, a stronger Crusher enchant helps.

acw37162

Infused Crusher Enchant is BIS for tanks.

Precise is BIS slot for any raid group running full armor debuffs on a boss.

Nirn should be IMO BIS over sharpened as it's the hardest upgrade material to find and hardest weapons and armor to get drop if you can find.

Bad_Company

I agree that all traits should be equally good, and that now most of them are trash.
What I find way unbalanced are your proposed changes. Too much, just too much. Precise and Nirnhoned would be even better than the actual Sharpened, causing your so-called balance to be lost before it was even there.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Bad_Company wrote: »

I agree that all traits should be equally good, and that now most of them are trash.
What I find way unbalanced are your proposed changes. Too much, just too much. Precise and Nirnhoned would be even better than the actual Sharpened, causing your so-called balance to be lost before it was even there.

nirnhoned at 500 spell/weapon damage is about even with sharpened, at least with dps in mind, at least acording to this - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262295/nirnhoned-precise-and-sharpened/p1 - maybe with major and minor damage buff up, it would be more but that would be okay, it is the hardest trait to get and make.

i am specifically talking about these lines-

So you would expect 183 Spell Damage for a staff and 219 Spell Damage for dual wielding swords. Thus if we’re dual wielding swords, Nirnhoned leads to an increase ability tooltip of roughly 3.2%.

thus the spell damage equivalence for Precise is about
https://i.gyazo.com/a14bcc98f941708c3e08c9dc585d6084.png This translates to an increase in average ability tooltip by 3.5%

Precise provides 3.5% increase in ability tooltip, this value can be achieved if Sharpened removes at least 1750 resistance.

5280/1750 = about 3, 3 times 219 = 657. so even with being 500 spell/weapon damage, it would still likely lose to sharpened, unless the boss is fully debuffed.

of course this is all from just dps standpoint.

cpuScientist

Bad_Company wrote: »

I agree that all traits should be equally good, and that now most of them are trash.
What I find way unbalanced are your proposed changes. Too much, just too much. Precise and Nirnhoned would be even better than the actual Sharpened, causing your so-called balance to be lost before it was even there.

Yea and those are there to start a discussion. I am not vying for those numbers to be the end. But we need to keep weapon traits in the devs mind, as currently they are quite unbalanced.

TheDarkRuler

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

500 weapon damage for nirnhoned?

Well its nirnhoned.
It is supposed to be rare!

And yes, I fully support these rework changes!

Asmael

A note about the traits and why they are in this state:

• Sharpened only works for pure damage if the target isn't using shields and still haz armor to penetrate
• Precise works for both healing and damage if the target isn't using shields
• Nirnhoned works for both healing and damage without restrictions

Not saying that the traits are perfectly balanced as they are, only that the above restrictions / factors should be taken into account for those 3 specific traits.

And yeah, some other traits need a rework.

And #NerfProsperous, too OP.

cpuScientist

Asmael wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@Nifty2g seems like an experienced player. What experience are you basing your thoughts on? It just seems like your thoughts on the traits comes from experience.

LOL Nifty is quite experienced. I run trials with my guild and have a degree in math and science. My buddy who helps me test these had a doctorate in mathematics aswell.

You can run the number on all these traits. I just did it for you on Infused as well. It's good in theory, but on paper that infused crusher is getting 324 more pen, and you can already get bosses a few thousand over pen so that is not really needed.

But I am not here to debate certain areas where these traits are mildly useful. And Nifty is 100% correct on where they would be best served.

BUT when you run the numbers on traits like decisive it's just God awful ultimate Gen. When you check out infused, it's a Small bump. If your in a good group then it's being wasted. If your in a bad group go for it. When you look at the weapon traits and there mild mannered bonuses. Then you watch at the dramatic effect sharpened has. It's not balanced. Not at all.

It's near impossible to get a perfect uptime on Alkosh and Crusher in practice.

Raids with a majority of magicka users won't always have someone running NMG / Sunderflame, and there's no point if you're the only stam DD.

In both cases, a stronger Crusher enchant helps.

Power of the light makes up for that. But I'm not even arguing that infused isn't good. I'm arguing that it's not good enough. BIS for a tank as you say is infused, well look at how that stacks up to BIS for DPS, it just doesn't compare.

cpuScientist

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Bad_Company wrote: »

I agree that all traits should be equally good, and that now most of them are trash.
What I find way unbalanced are your proposed changes. Too much, just too much. Precise and Nirnhoned would be even better than the actual Sharpened, causing your so-called balance to be lost before it was even there.

nirnhoned at 500 spell/weapon damage is about even with sharpened, at least with dps in mind, at least acording to this - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262295/nirnhoned-precise-and-sharpened/p1 - maybe with major and minor damage buff up, it would be more but that would be okay, it is the hardest trait to get and make.

i am specifically talking about these lines-

So you would expect 183 Spell Damage for a staff and 219 Spell Damage for dual wielding swords. Thus if we’re dual wielding swords, Nirnhoned leads to an increase ability tooltip of roughly 3.2%.

thus the spell damage equivalence for Precise is about
https://i.gyazo.com/a14bcc98f941708c3e08c9dc585d6084.png This translates to an increase in average ability tooltip by 3.5%

Precise provides 3.5% increase in ability tooltip, this value can be achieved if Sharpened removes at least 1750 resistance.

5280/1750 = about 3, 3 times 219 = 657. so even with being 500 spell/weapon damage, it would still likely lose to sharpened, unless the boss is fully debuffed.

of course this is all from just dps standpoint.

And this is what I am afraid of. If they went for balancing, they could just bring sharpened values down. It would be easier, would instantly make precise and nirnhoned viable alternatives.

But I'm sick of balance through nerfs, I get that sometimes that really is the best way. But for ZOS it is usually the only way.

I would like to see traits have a much bigger impact.

Eleusian

Something needs to Change , most traites obviously were created for loot dilution but we need at least 3 very good options. Pigeon holing everyone into 1 for Damage doesn't make sense.

cpuScientist

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert
Can we get any kind of word on if weapon traits are atleast being looked at?