Buffing Weapon Traits

cpuScientist

As it stands right now the weapon trait system is very unbalanced there is Sharpened and there is TRASH. The only thing that comes slightly close is precise but even this is vastly weak compared to sharpened. Now ZOS can either fix this or leave it be and make the game very limiting. And if they do fix it, it might be a fix through nerf, but whatever need to help with build diversity and make it so getting anything but sharpened doesn't end in rage.

So my proposal for the buffs are as follows. These are all at gold improvement.

Precise - 5% crit chance and 5% crit damage. Making this a very strong dps boost. (The percentages can be played with)

Decisive - simple 15% reduce ultimate cost. As it is now it barely helps with ultimate gen.

NirnHoned - 500 weapon and spell (as it is now it barely competes with precise and is outclassed entirely by sharpened.

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

Charged - this is just the worst. And needs to be fully replaced. My best guess to keep with the spirit of the trait would be 10% chance to cause an explosion of the status effect type. (But the last thing we need is more procs lol)

Powered - good as is for healers. Perhaps a small boost but its good.

Defending - good as is.

Training - good as is, but honestly just roll prosperous into training as well and replace that on armor...

Sharpened - GOOD as is.

Please make these traits mean something. Sure there will always br a bis. But atleast with some changes to boost other traits, BIS won't as OP in comparison.

The next patch is supposed to be about balance. So please don't forget to balance weapon traits.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

I can get on board with this

Zach2322

You know honestly, the Charged trait isn't bad on a lightning staff on your back with enough points into the thaumaturge for the 10% bonus damage to off balance targets. Its not the best but, when you have a lightning wall of elements down, there is a lot of things set off balance to get 10% damage off of.

Spearshard

You are talking WAY too much sense for the devs to do anything with this. Still I love the idea, esp for precise.

OutLaw_Nynx

500 weapon damage for nirnhoned?

susmitds

@Wrobel , @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_Finn

Alanar

Zach2322 wrote: »

You know honestly, the Charged trait isn't bad on a lightning staff on your back with enough points into the thaumaturge for the 10% bonus damage to off balance targets. Its not the best but, when you have a lightning wall of elements down, there is a lot of things set off balance to get 10% damage off of.

I use a Charged off-staff in a competitive lightning staff DK build for trials / VMA / PVP, makes a huge difference if you can keep the target in wall of elements and Off-Balance most of the time. The damage boost for heavy attacks is like 50%, really significant. Having a charged off-staff let's me proc Concussed and thus Off-Balance 84% of the time, which is amazing. But agree, for most builds, Charged isn't especially useful.

Silver_Strider

Can charged be changed to restore more resources on heavy attack? That way it's at least helpful in someway other than a niche lightning staff build

Mettaricana

Love all of this and fusing the two traits makes room for a new one

cpuScientist

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

500 weapon damage for nirnhoned?

That still wouldn't be on par with current sharpened.

reesenorman

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

500 weapon damage for nirnhoned?

That still wont beat Sharpened.

cpuScientist

But nirnhoned would be great in PvP where shields are so prevalent. So sharpened has no effect on shields.

Nifty2g

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

idk

@cpuScientist

It does not matter what changes they make to traits. One trait will outshine and be the preferred trait for DPS. Additionally, the thought that there is sharpened and then their is trash is not completely correct.

A target debuffed with puncture and Alkosh will take slightly more damage from precise than the sharpened weapons of a magika dps. It is a slight advantage and of course Alkosh is hard to keep up full time. However, it is clearly not trash.

With the change you propose it could actually make sharpened undesirable in the same token you seem to take precise now.

cpuScientist

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Nighn_9

15% reduce ulti cost sounds cool.

WalksonGraves

I couldn't believe the numbers on decisive. Best case scenario it adds 6 ult a minute.

Nifty2g

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Infused is being used by top tier raiders, powered is completely useless, decisive is weak on a 1 hander, strong on a 2 hander
defending is a good option for an offtank since low resistances if youre being set up for the ultra off tank

but infused on main tank and healers, very good

cpuScientist

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Infused is being used by top tier raiders, powered is completely useless, decisive is weak on a 1 hander, strong on a 2 hander
defending is a good option for an offtank since low resistances if youre being set up for the ultra off tank

but infused on main tank and healers, very good

I know it's used but as I showed it gives 324 more pen. That not alot. I didnt even add power of the loght in that. It's not needed at all. It just something that sounds like it would be great but is really not needed. Healers are using powered on thier staves. It could use a buff regardless.

WalksonGraves wrote: »

I couldn't believe the numbers on decisive. Best case scenario it adds 6 ult a minute.

When I first saw decisive, I thought it worked differently, but it's really really bad aint it.

LEGENDARYYY

Agree!

Dasovaruilos

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Infused is being used by top tier raiders, powered is completely useless, decisive is weak on a 1 hander, strong on a 2 hander
defending is a good option for an offtank since low resistances if youre being set up for the ultra off tank

but infused on main tank and healers, very good

Why do you think Powered is useless? Do you mean just for DPS / Tanks, right? Because we healers spend a big amount of CP trying to get that same effect. I've been farming Powered SPC, Worm and IA staves for ages now. Is there something bad about it that I don't know?

We healers have no Moster Sets, no dedicated Crafted Sets and only a handful of dropped sets that have been the BiS without a change for more than a year now.

Don't remove our one useful weapon trait as well!

Regarding the OP, these look great at a superficial analysis. They said they would work to make all traits useful, and this is one nice way of doing that.

cpuScientist

I mean these are just my suggestions to get a discussion going. I just hope that ZOS doesn't just leave as is, or tries to balance through nerf as usual. The traits need to be useful, and on par with sharpened.

Snit

We need across-the-board tweaks to almost every trait that isn't Sharpened or Powered. Those two are fine. The rest need to be made attractive to people who do the DPS math. Similarly, Divines and Impen need more competition.

Picking traits should be an interesting decision. Currently, it is not.

Dasovaruilos

Snit wrote: »

We need across-the-board tweaks to almost every trait that isn't Sharpened or Powered. Those two are fine. The rest need to be made attractive to people who do the DPS math. Similarly, Divines and Impen need more competition.

Picking traits should be an interesting decision. Currently, it is not.

Your last sentence says it all.

You have THE trait (Sharpened / Divines), the consolation trait (Infused / Precise) and the PvP trait (Impen). The rest is just usually garbage, except in very specific situations (Powered for Healers).

With 9 traits, a little more variety with pros and cons would be awesome.

cpuScientist

Snit wrote: »

We need across-the-board tweaks to almost every trait that isn't Sharpened or Powered. Those two are fine. The rest need to be made attractive to people who do the DPS math. Similarly, Divines and Impen need more competition.

Picking traits should be an interesting decision. Currently, it is not.

Hey I like me some infused on big pieces sometimes. But yeah. Me and my buddy do the math, they are all terrible. And I didn't even wanna bring armor traits in on this, but atleast on armor infused sturdy divine impen all have their place, the rest need tweaks.

But in weapons for dd it's sharpened or bust. For tank it's a little more soft, a buddy of mine uses powered on their SAP tank. But really besides powered sharpened and defending. Not really much are actually good. Some others are USED sure, but they are not useful.. big difference

cpuScientist

hugocbp wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

We need across-the-board tweaks to almost every trait that isn't Sharpened or Powered. Those two are fine. The rest need to be made attractive to people who do the DPS math. Similarly, Divines and Impen need more competition.

Picking traits should be an interesting decision. Currently, it is not.

Your last sentence says it all.

You have THE trait (Sharpened / Divines), the consolation trait (Infused / Precise) and the PvP trait (Impen). The rest is just usually garbage, except in very specific situations (Powered for Healers).

With 9 traits, a little more variety with pros and cons would be awesome.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh never though of that lol THE trait and consolation lol. Don't forget sturdy for tanks.

Dasovaruilos

cpuScientist wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

Snit wrote: »

We need across-the-board tweaks to almost every trait that isn't Sharpened or Powered. Those two are fine. The rest need to be made attractive to people who do the DPS math. Similarly, Divines and Impen need more competition.

Picking traits should be an interesting decision. Currently, it is not.

Your last sentence says it all.

You have THE trait (Sharpened / Divines), the consolation trait (Infused / Precise) and the PvP trait (Impen). The rest is just usually garbage, except in very specific situations (Powered for Healers).

With 9 traits, a little more variety with pros and cons would be awesome.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh never though of that lol THE trait and consolation lol. Don't forget sturdy for tanks.

Haha, I always though like that.

As I was farming SPC, I was always thinking "Please let it be Divines, let it be Divines"

"No, Infused"

"Ah, I'll take it".

It is not that bad actually.

Nifty2g

hugocbp wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Infused is being used by top tier raiders, powered is completely useless, decisive is weak on a 1 hander, strong on a 2 hander
defending is a good option for an offtank since low resistances if youre being set up for the ultra off tank

but infused on main tank and healers, very good

Why do you think Powered is useless? Do you mean just for DPS / Tanks, right? Because we healers spend a big amount of CP trying to get that same effect. I've been farming Powered SPC, Worm and IA staves for ages now. Is there something bad about it that I don't know?

We healers have no Moster Sets, no dedicated Crafted Sets and only a handful of dropped sets that have been the BiS without a change for more than a year now.

Don't remove our one useful weapon trait as well!

Regarding the OP, these look great at a superficial analysis. They said they would work to make all traits useful, and this is one nice way of doing that.

You're better off with infused or defending instead of powered, you just get more out of it. You do not need powered, there's just honestly no point for it. It looks nice but you really do not get anything from it, if you really want more heals, precise even beats powered in a trial nature.

Defending allows your to minmax your attributes around and use survival for your own benefit, which would yield a much stronger magicka pool for stronger than heals than what powered is going to give you

infused with a crusher enchantment is incredibly strong too

precise gives burst crit heals when you may need them and will give overall more burst healing than powered would

decisive doesnt have a cooldown on it which means more warhorns and group utility

powered increases healing done which in your current state healing shouldnt be an issue anyway, if this trait is the key to what is helping you the most in healing trials, something is seriously wrong with either you or your other healer, possibly off tank too

Dasovaruilos

Nifty2g wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Infused is being used by top tier raiders, powered is completely useless, decisive is weak on a 1 hander, strong on a 2 hander
defending is a good option for an offtank since low resistances if youre being set up for the ultra off tank

but infused on main tank and healers, very good

Why do you think Powered is useless? Do you mean just for DPS / Tanks, right? Because we healers spend a big amount of CP trying to get that same effect. I've been farming Powered SPC, Worm and IA staves for ages now. Is there something bad about it that I don't know?

We healers have no Moster Sets, no dedicated Crafted Sets and only a handful of dropped sets that have been the BiS without a change for more than a year now.

Don't remove our one useful weapon trait as well!

Regarding the OP, these look great at a superficial analysis. They said they would work to make all traits useful, and this is one nice way of doing that.

You're better off with infused or defending instead of powered, you just get more out of it. You do not need powered, there's just honestly no point for it. It looks nice but you really do not get anything from it, if you really want more heals, precise even beats powered in a trial nature.

Defending allows your to minmax your attributes around and use survival for your own benefit, which would yield a much stronger magicka pool for stronger than heals than what powered is going to give you

infused with a crusher enchantment is incredibly strong too

precise gives burst crit heals when you may need them and will give overall more burst healing than powered would

decisive doesnt have a cooldown on it which means more warhorns and group utility

powered increases healing done which in your current state healing shouldnt be an issue anyway, if this trait is the key to what is helping you the most in healing trials, something is seriously wrong with either you or your other healer, possibly off tank too

Nice! Thanks for the explanation. I've seem a few very "famous" healer builds with Powered, but I'll try to do some tests or math and see.

idk

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Nifty brought up a good point.

As for powered, it's weak. It doesn't add that much healing and there are other places to get added healing.

Another idea I've thought of for healing is a master staff with decisive. Get WH off more often, for when running a master staff that is.

And I see Nifty added that later.

cpuScientist

Nifty2g wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Infused - the effect is ok. But who is this for? This doesn't really help healing dps or tanks. I would suggest allowing for a second glyph to be added.

It's really good how it is, helps healers and tanks

So as is right now it adds 20%. So you get a grand total of 324 more penetration. Which again is ok. Buy a healer would be much better served running powered. Amd tanks well they can use it but decisive and defending are also good options.

So let's do a quick rough penetration calculation right quick. Light armor - 4884 sharpened - 5160 puncture 5280 crushing - 1622 alkosh - 3010. That adds up to 19,956. For stamina it comes out around the same a bit higher now with Krag and Sunderflame. So once again I agree infused is neato. But it's not even needed to get to the 18k sweet spot for bosses. As I have shown.

Infused is being used by top tier raiders, powered is completely useless, decisive is weak on a 1 hander, strong on a 2 hander
defending is a good option for an offtank since low resistances if youre being set up for the ultra off tank

but infused on main tank and healers, very good

Why do you think Powered is useless? Do you mean just for DPS / Tanks, right? Because we healers spend a big amount of CP trying to get that same effect. I've been farming Powered SPC, Worm and IA staves for ages now. Is there something bad about it that I don't know?

We healers have no Moster Sets, no dedicated Crafted Sets and only a handful of dropped sets that have been the BiS without a change for more than a year now.

Don't remove our one useful weapon trait as well!

Regarding the OP, these look great at a superficial analysis. They said they would work to make all traits useful, and this is one nice way of doing that.

You're better off with infused or defending instead of powered, you just get more out of it. You do not need powered, there's just honestly no point for it. It looks nice but you really do not get anything from it, if you really want more heals, precise even beats powered in a trial nature.

Defending allows your to minmax your attributes around and use survival for your own benefit, which would yield a much stronger magicka pool for stronger than heals than what powered is going to give you

infused with a crusher enchantment is incredibly strong too

precise gives burst crit heals when you may need them and will give overall more burst healing than powered would

decisive doesnt have a cooldown on it which means more warhorns and group utility

powered increases healing done which in your current state healing shouldnt be an issue anyway, if this trait is the key to what is helping you the most in healing trials, something is seriously wrong with either you or your other healer, possibly off tank too

As for infused with a crusher like I showed it adds 324 more, if that miniscule amount is what gets you over the hill for pen then something is incredibly wrong. Again you only need 18k for bosses and i showed that with regular raid buffs it already happens. And I left out power if the light which would bring you over 20k....

Powered if you do the numbers gives you a bigger boost to healing than precise over time. It's not needed, but it's a bigger boost. HOWEVER I completely agree on using precise over it as a crit heal at the right time is nice but it gets to a point where you get diminishing returns. And again its barely a difference. Would you rather a slightly higher chance at a burst heal ir slightly higher max healing numbers.

Decisive I love it I run a decisive master resto. But if you run the numbers, on the ultimate gen. Its dastardly low.

However all the areas you have stated are where those traits come in handy. And I am not saying they are useless or that you are wrong in how ghr should br used. But they ALL fail to give anywhere near the impact that sharpened has for dps. As it is now they are weak.