Improvements for Lunar bastion 「My ideas」

MaxwellC

I'll first off state that many people probably don't know what it is or really don't care as the set isn't that good for many reasons but this is what it does.


Now set effect 2-4 is pretty good at-least in my opinion but the 5th one is where it's pretty underwhelming especially if you compare it to lunar remedy. First off the shield provided upon synergy does not stack which seems pretty pointless as most if not all monsters in the dungeon will hit over 2.5k easily; now if it stacked (which I think it should) then it would actually be awesome for all vet trials.

The other problem to me is the amount of shielding it does, as stated before a large majority of monsters in dungeons/trials hit well over 2.5k and since the shields do not stack it's fairly bad. If the shield was at-least 5k and didn't stack than that would be awesome (obviously 5k + stack would be OP) but the shield should be at 3k normally and stack.

The range as well is a pretty bad problem as it only covers 8 meters, during trials such as vHRC last boss I'm more than sure it will not reach your fellow combatants unless they are right behind the boss and most of you know that well you can't simply be behind the most until he breaks the buff statue/room. You also will have to spread out during the shehai phase but if this was increased by double (16 meters) or maybe a bit more than this would for me be perfect and give a lot of wiggle room for players to stand in.

Lastly I feel that those within the circle should receive a buff either minor berserk,minor protection,minor force, minor savagery or Major Heroism. My reasoning is that the shield with the changes above would make it better but I like my tanks to be able to give buffs that improve the group. I feel that Major Heroism would be a excellent thing which is borderline OP but would be something unique as many things if not any provide Major heroism.

Thoughts?

MaxwellC

One more thing I also think that the duration of the 5th set should be increased to 30 seconds; maybe that's a bit too OP but I think it's fine since you're taking consistent damage.

Woeler

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

MaxwellC

^Yup it's not something you'd really notice; honestly I'd like if they just gave me a unique one like more ultimate gain or just give me more increased healing.

SublimeSparo

WAit what? you mean to tell me my build of 5p eternal yokeda + 5p lunar bastion + vMA s&b isn't BiS?
Blasphemy.
/sarcasm

On a serious note why are all the endgame sets intended for tanks so utterly shite

idk

Odd how some top raid guilds are using this set for certain situations. HM Rakkhat.

SublimeSparo

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Odd how some top raid guilds are using this set for certain situations. HM Rakkhat.

Can't really see how it'd be any better than the off tank spamming Igneous shield

Lord_Eomer

Woeler wrote: »

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

Minor Aegis works well with CP passives (damage reduction) and Nord Damage Reduction Passives

It should be also expanded to overland boss..

Drummerx04

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Odd how some top raid guilds are using this set for certain situations. HM Rakkhat.

Can't really see how it'd be any better than the off tank spamming Igneous shield

Because igneous shield would stack with lunar bastion, so why not use both? Lunar bastion is useful in more or less the same way that ebon is useful. It provides JUST enough of a shield to provide some resistance to getting insta wrecked and can take a little pressure off the healers.

In short, that's about 12k health that group members aren't losing over 10 seconds.

SublimeSparo

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

Minor Aegis works well with CP passives (damage reduction) and Nord Damage Reduction Passives

It should be also expanded to overland boss..

Not really, with all the mitigation a tank can acheive without it, a further 5% is essentially meaningless;
Roughly* its early and i can't remember if mitigation is additive or multiplicative
10k magic attack against naked no cp not blocking = 10k damage
10k magic attack against armour capped 100pts elemental defender while blocking = about 1250
Bear in mind there are more mitigations than just those listed that will apply from s&b skills passives and racial passives
Taking another 5% of that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
It's not even going to save you against the warriors flurry in vHRC, you're still going to need healing/ guarding etc.

You should probably listen to @Woeler he has successfully tanked the hardest content in this game

Lord_Eomer

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

Minor Aegis works well with CP passives (damage reduction) and Nord Damage Reduction Passives

It should be also expanded to overland boss..

Not really, with all the mitigation a tank can acheive without it, a further 5% is essentially meaningless;
Roughly* its early and i can't remember if mitigation is additive or multiplicative
10k magic attack against naked no cp not blocking = 10k damage
10k magic attack against armour capped 100pts elemental defender while blocking = about 1250
Bear in mind there are more mitigations than just those listed that will apply from s&b skills passives and racial passives
Taking another 5% of that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
It's not even going to save you against the warriors flurry in vHRC, you're still going to need healing/ guarding etc.

You should probably listen to @Woeler he has successfully tanked the hardest content in this game

Minor Aegis = 5% damage reduction + Nord Passive = 6 % damage Reduction + CP Passives = 25 % Max Reduction + 15 % Minor Maim, total = 51 % Reduction
And if you are on 33k reistance and using Footman then what else you need?

I tanked a lot sucusfully Vet Trials as Nord Stam DK and it really works..

Doctordarkspawn

Bastion definately needs a rework. Like some have said, 5% mitigation from a specific enemy type is a joke, and that five piece is just awful.

Woeler

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Odd how some top raid guilds are using this set for certain situations. HM Rakkhat.

If you use this set you are not a top raid guild. Alkosh, Ebon and powerful assault are 100x better alternatives.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

Minor Aegis works well with CP passives (damage reduction) and Nord Damage Reduction Passives

It should be also expanded to overland boss..

Not really, with all the mitigation a tank can acheive without it, a further 5% is essentially meaningless;
Roughly* its early and i can't remember if mitigation is additive or multiplicative
10k magic attack against naked no cp not blocking = 10k damage
10k magic attack against armour capped 100pts elemental defender while blocking = about 1250
Bear in mind there are more mitigations than just those listed that will apply from s&b skills passives and racial passives
Taking another 5% of that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
It's not even going to save you against the warriors flurry in vHRC, you're still going to need healing/ guarding etc.

You should probably listen to @Woeler he has successfully tanked the hardest content in this game

Minor Aegis = 5% damage reduction + Nord Passive = 6 % damage Reduction + CP Passives = 25 % Max Reduction + 15 % Minor Maim, total = 51 % Reduction
And if you are on 33k reistance and using Footman then what else you need?

I tanked a lot sucusfully Vet Trials as Nord Stam DK and it really works..

That is NOT AT ALL how damage reduction works. It reduces the incoming damage before block and armor mitigation is calculated. Meaning that at the end of the line the 5% minor aegis is not even a 1% damage reduction. Furthermore sets like footman work with diminishing returns and are completely useless. Furthermore damage reduction does not stack additive, meaning the more different damage reduction buffs you get, the less effective they are. Then also incoming damage reduction on you and outgoing damage reduction on a boss and damage block mitigation are three entirely different things. You can't just add them up and claim to have 51% incoming damage reduction. That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works. By that logic you should have 101% damage reduction, as block gives you 50%. Seems impossible to me.

And of course the elephant in the room: you do not need them. You don't need to be THAT tanky. It is a complete waste of resources. I tank Rakkhat hardmode with Alkosh and Ebon and they are 100x more useful than footman or lunar bastion or any other random resistance stacking set.

A tank not specced to support is not a useful tank.

Conclusion: minor aegis needs a big buff or just needs to be removed.

Lord_Eomer

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Bastion definately needs a rework. Like some have said, 5% mitigation from a specific enemy type is a joke, and that five piece is just awful.

Agreed, Five piece buff is awful!

Dubhliam

The 5 piece definitely needs a buff.
I will never understand why ZOS is pushing damage shields, they are never good for 5 piece set bonuses.

I particularly like the "buff" suggestion, although I would suggest Minor Heroism instead of Major.
Major buffs should be reserved for ultimates, so that they can't be spammed.

Woeler

Dubhliam wrote: »

The 5 piece definitely needs a buff.
I will never understand why ZOS is pushing damage shields, they are never good for 5 piece set bonuses.

I particularly like the "buff" suggestion, although I would suggest Minor Heroism instead of Major.
Major buffs should be reserved for ultimates, so that they can't be spammed.

Not to mention major heroism is what your normal ulti-gain is called and doesn't stack. Hence why the last stand cp passive is useless.

nordsavage

Lunar Bastion is a great 5 piece set. It is one of the handful of sets I combine and I use it well. It is a controlled activation shield. If you do not like it find other sets. This one needs to stay as is. This set is not just about personal protection is an active defense for your softer team mates. If you are not at a point where you can worry less about your defenses and more about your team mates you need to rethink whether you should be tanking or not.

Dymence

nordsavage wrote: »

Lunar Bastion is a great 5 piece set. It is one of the handful of sets I combine and I use it well. It is a controlled activation shield. If you do not like it find other sets. This one needs to stay as is. This set is not just about personal protection is an active defense for your softer team mates. If you are not at a point where you can worry less about your defenses and more about your team mates you need to rethink whether you should be tanking or not.

This post made me question if "the tank life chose you"

nordsavage

Dymence wrote: »

nordsavage wrote: »

Lunar Bastion is a great 5 piece set. It is one of the handful of sets I combine and I use it well. It is a controlled activation shield. If you do not like it find other sets. This one needs to stay as is. This set is not just about personal protection is an active defense for your softer team mates. If you are not at a point where you can worry less about your defenses and more about your team mates you need to rethink whether you should be tanking or not.

This post made me question if "the tank life chose you"

Meet me in game I'll tank circles around any of you.

Dymence

@nordsavage

After reading the above debate, I have some questions...

How do you 'compete' in PVE tanking? What do you hope to accomplish by having Woeler meet you in-game? Are you gonna tank some mobs and show how awesome you can taunt and hold block?

Woeler

I have some reworks for this set saved on my pc (which i suggested on pts, but were not used). I'll post them here. Maybe they will look at them again.

Wollust

Oh my this thread is turning out to be quite entertaining.

ZOS_JohanaB

Several comments have been removed for baiting and back and forth that was going on, in fear of derailing the thread. Please remember be civil, be constructive and follow the community rules.

Woeler

So here is what I had a while back:

3 piece bonus:
Since minor aegis is utterly useless and suffers greatly from the way reduction of damage is calculated. I'd rather see this thing removed.
- Reduces cost of block by 203 (on gold)
- Gain minor vitality at all times (8% healing received)
- Gain 3 ultimate while blocking damage. This effect can occur every 5 seconds

5 piece bonus:
Damage shields have no mitigation. The damage shield on this set does not stack, it just refreshes. It is utterly useless. Which is a shame because the set drops in endgame content and looks awesome as F. So here a few suggestions, staying in the spirit of the set.
- When you activate a synergy, you create a lunar blessing underneath you for 10 seconds. The blessing grants Major Vitality to you and your allies within 8 meters.
- When you activate a synergy, you create a lunar blessing underneath you for 10 seconds. The blessing grants Major Evasion to you and your allies within 8 meters.
- When you activate a synergy, you create a lunar blessing underneath you for 10 seconds. The blessing grants Minor Berserk to you and your allies within 8 meters.
- When you activate a synergy, you create a lunar blessing underneath you for 10 seconds. The blessing grants Minor Protection to you and your allies within 8 meters.
- When you activate a synergy, you create a lunar blessing underneath you for 3 seconds. The blessing grants Major Berserk to you and your allies within 8 meters.

These are all way more useful in a raid setup.

MaxwellC

Yeah for a second I came back and was like woah my thread blew up, good things may be getting some major collusion but unfortunately I see a couple names that literally didn't read the original post and that's fine.

@Woeler
I definitely agree with minor berserk or major berserk but I feel the shield should stay but stack as well. I also agree with the rework to minor aegis because it's completely useless and frankly not needed.

Rickter

just one more example of how zos doesnt really know what tanking is in eso.

tank = buff bot

ok zos?

groups want warhorns. build a set around that

Lord_Eomer

Woeler wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Odd how some top raid guilds are using this set for certain situations. HM Rakkhat.

If you use this set you are not a top raid guild. Alkosh, Ebon and powerful assault are 100x better alternatives.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

Minor Aegis works well with CP passives (damage reduction) and Nord Damage Reduction Passives

It should be also expanded to overland boss..

Not really, with all the mitigation a tank can acheive without it, a further 5% is essentially meaningless;
Roughly* its early and i can't remember if mitigation is additive or multiplicative
10k magic attack against naked no cp not blocking = 10k damage
10k magic attack against armour capped 100pts elemental defender while blocking = about 1250
Bear in mind there are more mitigations than just those listed that will apply from s&b skills passives and racial passives
Taking another 5% of that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
It's not even going to save you against the warriors flurry in vHRC, you're still going to need healing/ guarding etc.

You should probably listen to @Woeler he has successfully tanked the hardest content in this game

Minor Aegis = 5% damage reduction + Nord Passive = 6 % damage Reduction + CP Passives = 25 % Max Reduction + 15 % Minor Maim, total = 51 % Reduction
And if you are on 33k reistance and using Footman then what else you need?

I tanked a lot sucusfully Vet Trials as Nord Stam DK and it really works..

That is NOT AT ALL how damage reduction works. It reduces the incoming damage before block and armor mitigation is calculated. Meaning that at the end of the line the 5% minor aegis is not even a 1% damage reduction. Furthermore sets like footman work with diminishing returns and are completely useless. Furthermore damage reduction does not stack additive, meaning the more different damage reduction buffs you get, the less effective they are. Then also incoming damage reduction on you and outgoing damage reduction on a boss and damage block mitigation are three entirely different things. You can't just add them up and claim to have 51% incoming damage reduction. That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works.

And of course the elephant in the room: you do not need them. You don't need to be THAT tanky. It is a complete waste of resources. I tank Rakkhat hardmode with Alkosh and Ebon and they are 100x more useful than footman or lunar bastion or any other random resistance stacking set.

A tank not specced to support is not a useful tank.

Conclusion: minor aegis needs a big buff or just needs to be removed.

I am not sure about your response may be someone from ZOS can clarify or you can post some references .

MaxwellC

@Lord_Dexter
No he is correct, I forget the post but I believe it was wrobel who put out the calculation of resistance and how the buffs work with it (like footmans).

Asmael

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Odd how some top raid guilds are using this set for certain situations. HM Rakkhat.

If you use this set you are not a top raid guild. Alkosh, Ebon and powerful assault are 100x better alternatives.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

Minor Aegis works well with CP passives (damage reduction) and Nord Damage Reduction Passives

It should be also expanded to overland boss..

Not really, with all the mitigation a tank can acheive without it, a further 5% is essentially meaningless;
Roughly* its early and i can't remember if mitigation is additive or multiplicative
10k magic attack against naked no cp not blocking = 10k damage
10k magic attack against armour capped 100pts elemental defender while blocking = about 1250
Bear in mind there are more mitigations than just those listed that will apply from s&b skills passives and racial passives
Taking another 5% of that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
It's not even going to save you against the warriors flurry in vHRC, you're still going to need healing/ guarding etc.

You should probably listen to @Woeler he has successfully tanked the hardest content in this game

Minor Aegis = 5% damage reduction + Nord Passive = 6 % damage Reduction + CP Passives = 25 % Max Reduction + 15 % Minor Maim, total = 51 % Reduction
And if you are on 33k reistance and using Footman then what else you need?

I tanked a lot sucusfully Vet Trials as Nord Stam DK and it really works..

That is NOT AT ALL how damage reduction works. It reduces the incoming damage before block and armor mitigation is calculated. Meaning that at the end of the line the 5% minor aegis is not even a 1% damage reduction. Furthermore sets like footman work with diminishing returns and are completely useless. Furthermore damage reduction does not stack additive, meaning the more different damage reduction buffs you get, the less effective they are. Then also incoming damage reduction on you and outgoing damage reduction on a boss and damage block mitigation are three entirely different things. You can't just add them up and claim to have 51% incoming damage reduction. That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works.

And of course the elephant in the room: you do not need them. You don't need to be THAT tanky. It is a complete waste of resources. I tank Rakkhat hardmode with Alkosh and Ebon and they are 100x more useful than footman or lunar bastion or any other random resistance stacking set.

A tank not specced to support is not a useful tank.

Conclusion: minor aegis needs a big buff or just needs to be removed.

I am not sure about your response may be someone from ZOS can clarify or you can post some references .

This is what you're looking for.

Woeler

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Odd how some top raid guilds are using this set for certain situations. HM Rakkhat.

If you use this set you are not a top raid guild. Alkosh, Ebon and powerful assault are 100x better alternatives.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Set needs a rework definitely. Also the minor aegis is a joke. You do not notice it at all on a tank.

Minor Aegis works well with CP passives (damage reduction) and Nord Damage Reduction Passives

It should be also expanded to overland boss..

Not really, with all the mitigation a tank can acheive without it, a further 5% is essentially meaningless;
Roughly* its early and i can't remember if mitigation is additive or multiplicative
10k magic attack against naked no cp not blocking = 10k damage
10k magic attack against armour capped 100pts elemental defender while blocking = about 1250
Bear in mind there are more mitigations than just those listed that will apply from s&b skills passives and racial passives
Taking another 5% of that isn't going to make a lot of difference.
It's not even going to save you against the warriors flurry in vHRC, you're still going to need healing/ guarding etc.

You should probably listen to @Woeler he has successfully tanked the hardest content in this game

Minor Aegis = 5% damage reduction + Nord Passive = 6 % damage Reduction + CP Passives = 25 % Max Reduction + 15 % Minor Maim, total = 51 % Reduction
And if you are on 33k reistance and using Footman then what else you need?

I tanked a lot sucusfully Vet Trials as Nord Stam DK and it really works..

That is NOT AT ALL how damage reduction works. It reduces the incoming damage before block and armor mitigation is calculated. Meaning that at the end of the line the 5% minor aegis is not even a 1% damage reduction. Furthermore sets like footman work with diminishing returns and are completely useless. Furthermore damage reduction does not stack additive, meaning the more different damage reduction buffs you get, the less effective they are. Then also incoming damage reduction on you and outgoing damage reduction on a boss and damage block mitigation are three entirely different things. You can't just add them up and claim to have 51% incoming damage reduction. That is not how this works. That is not how any of this works.

And of course the elephant in the room: you do not need them. You don't need to be THAT tanky. It is a complete waste of resources. I tank Rakkhat hardmode with Alkosh and Ebon and they are 100x more useful than footman or lunar bastion or any other random resistance stacking set.

A tank not specced to support is not a useful tank.

Conclusion: minor aegis needs a big buff or just needs to be removed.

I am not sure about your response may be someone from ZOS can clarify or you can post some references .

There was a big post about this way back. I might have to look it up again.

In simple terms let me make an example:

You have 2 buffs. Buff X reduces your incoming damage by 10%, buff Y also reduces your incoming damage by 10%.

You get hit for 1000 damage. Buff X kicks in and removes 10% aka 100. Now you are just getting hit for 900 damage, then buff Y kicks in and removes 10%, but 10% from 900 is not 100 anymore, it is 90. Now your original 10% is actually 9%. Etc etc etc. Effect gets bigger the more of these things you use. Hence minor aegis is useless.

KEEP IN MIND this is just a simple example to show proof of concept. If percentual values would stack up before you would actually calculate then you would be able to mitigate 100% of your incoming damage, which is of course nonsense.

Lets take a real world example. Blocking mitigates 50% of any hit you take and is calculated after minor aegis. You get hit for 1000 damage. Minor aegis kicks in, reducing that to 950 damage. Then through block which means you get hit for a total of 475 damage.

Now without minor aegis. You get hit for 1000 damage, through block is 500 damage.

Just by blocking the effectiveness of your minor aegis was halved as the REAL difference between with and without is just 25 damage, which is only 2.5% of the total incoming damage. And at this point, the damage hasn't even penetrated your armor yet!

This gets way more complex with all the buffs and debuffs one gets in dungeons and trials, but the moral of the story is that on a character that is build to mitigate damage (aka tanks) this buff is utterly useless as you are just creating more and more diminishing returns on mitigation.

Same goes for Footmans fortune. You are already using various passives and CP that mitigate your damage while blocking. Footman scales not with the pre-calculated value, but with the post calculated value. And 5% of a stripped number is an even more stripped number, which is basically nothing at all.

timidobserver

Yeh the set is not very good. It should drop in a dungeon not the top level of endgame content.