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Let's give credit where Wrobel is due

dagonbeer
dagonbeer
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We love to rag on the mechanics team but there were things where I think they were right, and general forum consensus was wrong. Now some of these were amended in the very last iteration before it went live, but I think they should still be commended for getting it down. (Just specific issues here, not looking at something as broad as general stam/mag disparity)
  • Heavy armor changes - I think they're in a good place now, PvP-wise. Black rose can probably stand to have one max stamina changed to max magicka, if only for parity for mag classes. As for PvE, tanking was always more about positioning and fight mechanics than stats anyway, wasn't a big deal.
  • Dark deal - it did turn out to be decently awesome.
  • Cloak related changes - bugs aside, it wasn't the doom that many nbs foretold.
  • 2H ultimate - wasn't that OP after all.
  • Destro ultimate - wasn't that UP after all.
  • Surge - I still prefer the old for magsorcs, but new surge's not half bad.

On the flip side, here's where I think the forum consensus ended up being right:
  • weapon trait changes - Sharpened or bust. See prices/demand/availability/usage for proof. When a weapon drops, we have a 8/9 chance of being disappointed.
  • Shield changes - Guess this is contentious, but if nothing else the duration is every bit as annoying as feared. Not fun.
  • dagonbeer
    dagonbeer
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    Jaronking wrote: »
    Nahhh NB was right about cloak you know why because it doesn't work.Heavy armor is broken as heck Heavy armor shouldn't give you damage if your in heavy your not a DPs and shouldn't do as much damage as me in medium.

    To be fair, cloak was always buggy.

    Heavy armor isn't broken, and it's nice now that it's not pigeonholed into a damage-less tank role. The damage buffs are meaningful but still much weaker the light/medium buffs. The sustain buffs to heavy armor is more thematic and fun than the old block cost reduction. Don't tell me that the 3%-4% damage boost from Wraith is OP.

    Now, proc sets are another matter, and it's those sets, combined with survivability of heavy armor that most people have problems with. But there, heavy armor is doing exactly what it's supposed to do -- add survivability. I do think that the monster helm proc sets needs to be toned down though, or ideally add some sort of tell so that they can be avoided/blocked.
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    dagonbeer wrote: »
    • Heavy armor changes - I think they're in a good place now, PvP-wise. Black rose can probably stand to have one max stamina changed to max magicka, if only for parity for mag classes. As for PvE, tanking was always more about positioning and fight mechanics than stats anyway, wasn't a big deal.

    Heavy armor provides too much damage, with high resistances, high hp, strong healing and the best resource management of all 3 types of armor.....
    dagonbeer wrote: »
    [*] Dark deal - it did turn out to be decently awesome.
    [*]

    Decently? lol, borderline OP. At least it needs to consume the magika cost when bashed. Stamsorc can sustain with 0 regen, that is not fine.
    dagonbeer wrote: »
    [*] Cloak related changes - bugs aside, it wasn't the doom that many nbs foretold.
    [*]

    Cloak is as broken as ever. Patch by patch is getting more and more frustrating, i can list you a dozen of skills bugged with cloak. And don't even let me start with the stuck in combat bug...
    dagonbeer wrote: »
    [*] Destro ultimate - wasn't that UP after all.
    [*]

    NOT OP? LOL.



  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    Dark deal? Awesome?

    Maybe if you're a stam Sorc block-casting it with 36K stamina backing you up.

    The rest of us think that the long channel is both asinine and suicidally lethal in a fight.
    Edited by Minalan on October 28, 2016 5:46PM
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    No credit sorry
    Raising floors and lower ceilings by zos standards has created an iron maiden.
    No matter how well you played,when the game is over,the king and pawn go back in the same box.
    Be careful what you ask for from zo$, you always get punished.
    Call me toxic,your the one being slowly poisoned by greed.
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    Yeah umm no I can't with a good conscience sorry . I wish I could but I can't . It's just not true .
  • Surizel
    Surizel
    Soul Shriven
    ManDraKE wrote: »
    dagonbeer wrote: »
    [*] Destro ultimate - wasn't that UP after all.
    [*]

    NOT OP? LOL.

    Well UP might mean Underpowered, but that's only my humble opinion :wink:
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Dark deal? Awesome?

    Maybe if you're a stam Sorc block-casting it with 36K stamina backing you up.

    The rest of us think that the long channel is both asinine and suicidally lethal in a fight.

    You can't block cast a channel ability... Dark Deal is pretty damn awesome but it does have it's counters (but no one seems to realize for some reason).

    I agree on heavy armor. The sustain is good, the survivability is good and the damage is where it should be. Remember Wrath stacks for 6 seconds and you must be getting hit REALLY often to get the full 200 spell/weapon damage buff. In most situations you're not taking 10 attacks per 6 seconds. In a 1vX you are yes, but 200 damage is not that great compared to the 5k penetration from light armor or the 12% from medium armor.

    Elemental rage is bugged AF in PvE, it bugs you out of all your skills and you can't weave at all. In PvP, Eye of the Storm is pretty OP to be honest though. If you aren't a magicka build with shields or if you can't get away, its done.

    2H ultimate is probably as bad as the resto staff one... Useless.

    Surge is indeed amazing now for magicka and stamina sorcerers.

    Shield duration is fine in my opinion though. Haven't had too many issues with it.
    Edited by Izaki on November 14, 2016 1:03PM
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #MidnightSlayers
    #MoreDPSthanYou #ImmortalRedeemerOnStamblade
    #Stamblade
  • Own
    Own
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    Minalan wrote: »
    Dark deal? Awesome?

    Maybe if you're a stam Sorc block-casting it with 36K stamina backing you up.

    The rest of us think that the long channel is both asinine and suicidally lethal in a fight.

    you can't block cast it
  • f047ys3v3n
    f047ys3v3n
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    Elemental rage is bugged AF in PvE, it bugs you out of all your skills and you can't weave at all. I

    Yep, bugs me out and prevents all weaving until I transition zone. I would say it is far worse than worthless as it not only doesn't do very impressive damage but also breaks all the rest of my ability to do damage. It is the new, very special, self nerfing ultimate. I have talked to some who do not have this problem but I have it on all the toons I have tried the ulti on every time.

    I can't speak to any of the PVP stuff but, on the good side of PVE I would add:
    1) There is now a wide variety of interesting BOP and BOE gear dropping from both dungeons and overworld quest content.
    2) Content scaling is just really great. You can actually do everything and it is scaled so you get XP, meaningfull drops, and some gold.
    3) vMA dual weild was nerfed some.
    4) Um, you may have noticed that even after the crit surge and sheild duration nerf, mag sorcs are still getting it done. They ok.
    5) Some fun events.


    On the bad side:

    1) The BIS magica dps set drops from COA1 in non-vet. Um, don't you think maybe infal or moondancer should perhaps be BIS at more than 3 pieces. It reminds me of the whole martial knowledge, a green set that dropped max level only from cyrodiil chests is BIS days. Get it right.
    2) Those ground cast skills are not really fixed insta cast. Hit the healing springs button twice, oh no, your stuck at half cast and your breath didn't go off. Your buddy is now dead. So sad.
    3) Magi blades need some dps love. They have 1 class DOT worth using, relentless is redundant with combat prayer, and their class ground dot, twisting path, is actually a dps loss to run as well as having a duration totally different than all the other DOT's that they are running. No redundancy on relentless, and change twisting to 8 sec and buff it.
    4) Do you really think a stam sorc heal crit should tick for 5.5k. and a magi sorc one for 2.5k. Just saying, that may be a little big on the stam sorc tick. I mean they aren't even running vigor in vMA.

    annnnnddddd......
    # everything) Lets face it, you still have a huge cheat engine problem. I have been looking at some vids of some of your best buddies. I don't really think a non crit wall of the elements tick can legitimately get to 5.6k. Do you? Sure, you don't have guys doing vMA in 20min with infinite meteor builds anymore but I think much of your dps creep of late has more to do with cheat engine making a comeback than the new, marginally better, sets. Y'all got a lot of work to do on that software to catch the baddies and you need to be very careful when it comes to scaling as I think many of the folks who you sit in stream with and congratulate are pulling one over on you. Letting all those banned guys back in opened back up the flood gates. People are willing to take risks again. Basically you stated, if you try to hide what you are doing, we are cool with it.

    I'll put it the way I put it too my dad when we used to argue about Lance Armstrong. He said there is no way he is doping with all the tests the French, who don't like him, run on him. I said, every year he beats all the guys they catch for doping. Do you really think he is crushing the best dopers in the word without himself cheating? I am just saying.
    Yes I am deeply embarrassed to still be playing this game. I know better.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    dagonbeer wrote: »
    We love to rag on the mechanics team but there were things where I think they were right, and general forum consensus was wrong. Now some of these were amended in the very last iteration before it went live, but I think they should still be commended for getting it down. (Just specific issues here, not looking at something as broad as general stam/mag disparity)
    • Heavy armor changes - I think they're in a good place now, PvP-wise. Black rose can probably stand to have one max stamina changed to max magicka, if only for parity for mag classes. As for PvE, tanking was always more about positioning and fight mechanics than stats anyway, wasn't a big deal.
    • Dark deal - it did turn out to be decently awesome.
    • Cloak related changes - bugs aside, it wasn't the doom that many nbs foretold.
    • 2H ultimate - wasn't that OP after all.
    • Destro ultimate - wasn't that UP after all.
    • Surge - I still prefer the old for magsorcs, but new surge's not half bad.

    On the flip side, here's where I think the forum consensus ended up being right:
    • weapon trait changes - Sharpened or bust. See prices/demand/availability/usage for proof. When a weapon drops, we have a 8/9 chance of being disappointed.
    • Shield changes - Guess this is contentious, but if nothing else the duration is every bit as annoying as feared. Not fun.

    Add the weapon ballance as far as making bow and twohanded viable in PVE and build diversity in general to the negatives. Wrobel makes a system that could promote many different builtimes into one connect-the-dots-to-win system.

    As for heavy armor, that change was universally reviled by the PVE crowd. Why? MOST OF US ARRENT HITTING STUFF. We now have to run full sturdy, half of which we cant control if that drops to get the cost reduc we lost. Not leting that go.

    The combat lead does not know how to do two things. Make different damage styles viable in either PVE or PVP, and he does not understand what makes a support roll fun. It's been my main gripe with his worth my entire time playing this game from Tamriel Unlimited, onward. Removals and changes with little reguard for the far-reaching effects that largely create new, even worse problems. A great example was the removal of softcaps.

    I believe the current design team has great idea's, but they dont think on them long enough. They consider the immediate impacts, not what comes three, four years down the line and are too slow to respond to problems.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on November 24, 2016 8:01PM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • ssewallb14_ESO
    ssewallb14_ESO
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    dagonbeer wrote: »
    We love to rag on the mechanics team but there were things where I think they were right, and general forum consensus was wrong. Now some of these were amended in the very last iteration before it went live, but I think they should still be commended for getting it down. (Just specific issues here, not looking at something as broad as general stam/mag disparity)
    • Heavy armor changes - I think they're in a good place now, PvP-wise. Black rose can probably stand to have one max stamina changed to max magicka, if only for parity for mag classes. As for PvE, tanking was always more about positioning and fight mechanics than stats anyway, wasn't a big deal.
      There is almost no reason to use medium now in PvP unless you're ganking. They basically reversed block nerfs in PvE with changes to sturdy.
    • Dark deal - it did turn out to be decently awesome.
      True, but mostly because of how well DD and Stam Sorc in general synergizes with the heavy armor meta.
    • Cloak related changes - bugs aside, it wasn't the doom that many nbs foretold.
      It was a large part of what killed melee magblade. Stamblades and Sorcblades don't actually need cloak.
    • 2H ultimate - wasn't that OP after all.
      Seems good on paper, but in reality too high risk, and losing your ult as a tool for initial burst isnt worth it.
    • Destro ultimate - wasn't that UP after all.
      It was until they doubled the damage per tick.
    • Surge - I still prefer the old for magsorcs, but new surge's not half bad.
      You rarely need surge anyway.

    On the flip side, here's where I think the forum consensus ended up being right:
    • weapon trait changes - Sharpened or bust. See prices/demand/availability/usage for proof. When a weapon drops, we have a 8/9 chance of being disappointed.
      Defending is good depending on the context, but in general yeah.
    • Shield changes - Guess this is contentious, but if nothing else the duration is every bit as annoying as feared. Not fun.
      This was effectively a damage nerf by requiring more sustain and more frequent recasting of shields. But we have the destro ult now, so...

    Edited by ssewallb14_ESO on December 1, 2016 4:07AM
  • Banana
    Banana
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    Wrobel needs a nerf
  • bryanhaas
    bryanhaas
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    dagonbeer wrote: »
    We love to rag on the mechanics team but there were things where I think they were right, and general forum consensus was wrong. Now some of these were amended in the very last iteration before it went live, but I think they should still be commended for getting it down. (Just specific issues here, not looking at something as broad as general stam/mag disparity)
    • Heavy armor changes - I think they're in a good place now, PvP-wise. Black rose can probably stand to have one max stamina changed to max magicka, if only for parity for mag classes. As for PvE, tanking was always more about positioning and fight mechanics than stats anyway, wasn't a big deal.
    • Dark deal - it did turn out to be decently awesome.
    • Cloak related changes - bugs aside, it wasn't the doom that many nbs foretold.
    • 2H ultimate - wasn't that OP after all.
    • Destro ultimate - wasn't that UP after all.
    • Surge - I still prefer the old for magsorcs, but new surge's not half bad.

    On the flip side, here's where I think the forum consensus ended up being right:
    • weapon trait changes - Sharpened or bust. See prices/demand/availability/usage for proof. When a weapon drops, we have a 8/9 chance of being disappointed.
    • Shield changes - Guess this is contentious, but if nothing else the duration is every bit as annoying as feared. Not fun.

    Something needs to be done to nirnhoned. The hardest to get trait in the game isn't top tier. Maybe leave sharpened alone and give nirn more damage. Or perhaps nirn on weapons and armor improves the defense and damage output so it would be a better choice but be very expensive. It just seems that it is currently shortchanged.
    PS4 NA AD GM formerly known as GM of "The Children of the Void"

    9 trait crafter I do all the things (Yes I mean ALL the things ;0).

    Price list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FTV7ACtmEpQQwsEiHVcrBxC0zKaj6LKvc3An7dGG2t0/edit?usp=sharing
  • kojou
    kojou
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    f047ys3v3n wrote: »

    3) Magi blades need some dps love. They have 1 class DOT worth using, relentless is redundant with combat prayer, and their class ground dot, twisting path, is actually a dps loss to run as well as having a duration totally different than all the other DOT's that they are running. No redundancy on relentless, and change twisting to 8 sec and buff it.



    I am with you 100% on this, but I use refreshing path for the heal because twisting path is only good for proc'ing Scathing Mage.

    If I could have 2 more wishes...

    Make Merciless Resolve refresh the buff (and restart the counter) when you fire the spectral arrow, so we don't have to cast twice.

    Buff the damage from Agony a little for CC immune targets, so its actually a usable DoT.

    Edited by kojou on December 19, 2016 8:53PM
    Playing since beta...
  • WillhelmBlack
    WillhelmBlack
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    Wrobel, you're fooling no one. Stop hacking old forum accounts and come Cyrodiil.

    High Council of The Black.(EU/DC PvE & PvP Guild).
  • Quantum_V
    Quantum_V
    Class Representative
    Well... magicka DKs... we'll meet again in Update 14.

    and as always...

    #(Really)BuffDragonBlood

    Quantum - Magicka DK

    Youtube Channel

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