Why are magicka dk skill so expensive?

leepalmer95

I'm running a 5 light build at the moment, just waiting until cyrodiil fills up again so i can test it open world, i'm probably going to get slapped though

Anyway even with 5 light and 75 in reduce magicka cost my wings and talons are still 3k, whip is around 2k which isn't bad...

But really 3k for wings for 4s?
Inhale is a similar price..
Inferno - I know
Fossilize etc...

Why on a light build is all this stuff still so expensive, i go on any stamina build and everything in under 2k?

Can we get some type of cost reduction for the stupid cost of skills.

This is in light as well, most mag dk agree light in open world is suicide. If you go heavy i can't imagine the cost....

Then in order to sustain while in heavy you have to give up more dmg on sets or such to sustain, this is without including the dmg loss off going from light to heavy in the first place..

They you get to a point where you can barely sustain your magicka and stamina and then realise your skills aren't hitting for anything, any stamina heavy user has more burst, healing, mobility, survivability, dps and burst dmg..

Come on zos ...

Anti_Virus

It shouldn't be that expensive but it is because:

1. DKs have no cost reduction in their skill tree like sorcs or templars
2. Magicka skills generally cost more

Also side note you should put 100 pts in magicka cost reduction for better sustain.

leepalmer95

Anti_Virus wrote: »

It shouldn't be that expensive but it is because:

1. DKs have no cost reduction in their skill tree like sorcs or templars
2. Magicka skills generally cost mor

Also side note you should put 100 pts in magicka cost reduction for better sustain.

Im using lich because mag dk skills + shields are so costly on my resources..

So i went 75/75 and threw the rest into break free reduction.

Malmai

I remember when Mag DK was #1, now just sits in shadows.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

It shouldn't be that expensive but it is because:

1. DKs have no cost reduction in their skill tree like sorcs or templars
2. Magicka skills generally cost mor

Also side note you should put 100 pts in magicka cost reduction for better sustain.

Im using lich because mag dk skills + shields are so costly on my resources..

So i went 75/75 and threw the rest into break free reduction.

I see, hopefully DKs can be rebalanced, but in all honesty I believe that its gunna get wrobeled.

Enslaved

I must say that I agree with OP on this topic. Magicka DK's have a lot of skills that are pretty costly even with 100 CP in cost reduction and, for example, seducer set to reduce magicka cost by additional 8%. Maybe this was intended but I am kinda bored having to drink tri stat resto pots all the time, in any fight that might be longer than just a few seconds.

Maybe there can be a slight change in the way certain skills work. For example, molten whip/flame lash could have mechanic that reduces its cost by 50% when used on off balanced enemies. Also, talons could have some magicka retuned to DK if an ally activate synergy. I think these changes would be unbalanced but will help magicka DK's a lot, especially in PvE. I have seen a lot of stam DK tanks that do not even slot talons because skill is expensive to use. And in some boss fights it can be difference between life and failure for the entire group.

leepalmer95

Just a flat cost reduction would be great:

Templar gets 4% reduced cost of stamina, magicka and ultimate costs and an armor buff that gives them basically 480 recovery in pvp.

Sorc get 5% magicka + stamina cost reduction and a flat 10% regen.

Nb's get 15% regen everything, magicka back on killing with an assassination skill.


Dk's get battle roar which isn't as good as it used to be.

SaibotLiu

Malmai wrote: »

I remember when Mag DK was #1, now just sits in shadows.

This.

At launch DKmagivamp was the win button.

Were just seeing the natural fotm progression. I think sometimes devs do that on purpose to keep the power gamers grinding out new templates all the time to stay on top. But mostly it's just par for the course.

Dubhliam

You should use wings sparingly.

They are not to be spammed, and kept up 100% of the time.
Otherwise, DKs would be OP.
I know, my main is one.

I agree there is room for improvement, but DKs have great resource management if you know how to build one.

xblackroxe

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just a flat cost reduction would be great:

Templar gets 4% reduced cost of stamina, magicka and ultimate costs and an armor buff that gives them basically 480 recovery in pvp.

Sorc get 5% magicka + stamina cost reduction and a flat 10% regen.

Nb's get 15% regen everything, magicka back on killing with an assassination skill.


Dk's get battle roar which isn't as good as it used to be.

Oh pls battle roar is the best ressource control passive there is. When playing on my dk i can easily sustain with just simple magicka potions. And it doesn't even cost you anything using it in spite of something like siphoning attacks.

leepalmer95

xblackroxe wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just a flat cost reduction would be great:

Templar gets 4% reduced cost of stamina, magicka and ultimate costs and an armor buff that gives them basically 480 recovery in pvp.

Sorc get 5% magicka + stamina cost reduction and a flat 10% regen.

Nb's get 15% regen everything, magicka back on killing with an assassination skill.


Dk's get battle roar which isn't as good as it used to be.

Oh pls battle roar is the best ressource control passive there is. When playing on my dk i can easily sustain with just simple magicka potions. And it doesn't even cost you anything using it in spite of something like siphoning attacks.

Lol.

Battleroar isn't as near as good as it used to be, it gives how much for a 200 costing ult?

You must be one of those all tanky, sustain and no damage builds.

Patouf

Yes, magicka skills are usually too expensive, specially for a mDK.

In PvE it is hard to sustain but with elemental drain and siphon or magic orbs it can be ok. However, in PvP... mDK need a 2000+ regen magicka, otherwise it is impossible.

Anti_Virus

leepalmer95 wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just a flat cost reduction would be great:

Templar gets 4% reduced cost of stamina, magicka and ultimate costs and an armor buff that gives them basically 480 recovery in pvp.

Sorc get 5% magicka + stamina cost reduction and a flat 10% regen.

Nb's get 15% regen everything, magicka back on killing with an assassination skill.


Dk's get battle roar which isn't as good as it used to be.

Oh pls battle roar is the best ressource control passive there is. When playing on my dk i can easily sustain with just simple magicka potions. And it doesn't even cost you anything using it in spite of something like siphoning attacks.

Lol.

Battleroar isn't as near as good as it used to be, it gives how much for a 200 costing ult?

You must be one of those all tanky, sustain and no damage builds.

Im pretty sure the higher the ult cost the more resources it returns

Tryxus

Anti_Virus wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Just a flat cost reduction would be great:

Templar gets 4% reduced cost of stamina, magicka and ultimate costs and an armor buff that gives them basically 480 recovery in pvp.

Sorc get 5% magicka + stamina cost reduction and a flat 10% regen.

Nb's get 15% regen everything, magicka back on killing with an assassination skill.


Dk's get battle roar which isn't as good as it used to be.

Oh pls battle roar is the best ressource control passive there is. When playing on my dk i can easily sustain with just simple magicka potions. And it doesn't even cost you anything using it in spite of something like siphoning attacks.

Lol.

Battleroar isn't as near as good as it used to be, it gives how much for a 200 costing ult?

You must be one of those all tanky, sustain and no damage builds.

Im pretty sure the higher the ult cost the more resources it returns

It is, but in PvP it's better to use more low cost Ultimates like Soul Assault or Light's Champion for quick resources in case you don't manage to build up the ultimate for Meteor or Elemental Rage in time

Drummerx04

I'm getting a little tired of dks complaining about wing duration and even comparing them to sorc shields... they REFLECT projectiles at something like 30% increased damage. Wings are an active counter offensive skill for any ranged dps, and there's nothing quite like fighting a DK and having your own 13k crystal frag on your death recap.

And magicka skills costing more is generally attributed to the fact that we don't block, dodgeroll, or sprint with magicka.

Enslaved

You can dodge or block reflected things.

leepalmer95

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm getting a little tired of dks complaining about wing duration and even comparing them to sorc shields... they REFLECT projectiles at something like 30% increased damage. Wings are an active counter offensive skill for any ranged dps, and there's nothing quite like fighting a DK and having your own 13k crystal frag on your death recap.

And magicka skills costing more is generally attributed to the fact that we don't block, dodgeroll, or sprint with magicka.

Wings counter projectiles, lasts 4s

Mines counter all melee last 30s.

I can use skills such as channels, curse, etc.. to get around wings, what does someone do to a sorc camping mines?

Also you should learn how reflect works, yeah it 30% 'increased dmg' but that dmg also gets mitigated by the dk's resistance ( easily 20k - 33k on any mag dk build) and by the dk's elemental defender cp and then it gets mitigated again by the sorc's resistance and cp before it hits, if it hits.

So you throw a 14k tooltip frag at me, i have 25k spell resistances which is easy to get on a s&b dk in light armor that is 37.5% reduction, then include the 15% reduction from cp:

14000 x 0.85 = 11900

11900 x 0.625 = 7437.5.

So before battle spirit and the sorcs own armor that frag is down to 7.4k dmg. Likely to around 4-5k when the sorc mitigation comes in.

Then half it and time by 1.3 for the OP (30% increased dmg).

Aquanova

Ironic isn't it that the class ZOS meant for the slow burn play style really isn't designed for it. At least the magicka version.

Dks have no passives that increase mag regen or max mag, unlike mag NB and Sorcs. No skill that does that either like templars rune. We have a passive that returns stats, but that calls for using an ultimate and the one most dks prefer is 250 ultimate, not in the 150 ultimate range which I would think would be a better cost for standard but apparently ZOS feels it would be OP.

If you look at it, dk is designed to synergize with stamina....period!

Sure it's doable ( I've played mine since 2014 and never went back to stam ) mainly cause I can't afford to due to skill points. He's my crafter, but it takes a lot more work in pvp to do well with it than every other class I've played and I play them all.

DKsUnite

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm getting a little tired of dks complaining about wing duration and even comparing them to sorc shields... they REFLECT projectiles at something like 30% increased damage. Wings are an active counter offensive skill for any ranged dps, and there's nothing quite like fighting a DK and having your own 13k crystal frag on your death recap.

And magicka skills costing more is generally attributed to the fact that we don't block, dodgeroll, or sprint with magicka.

Wings counter projectiles, lasts 4s

Mines counter all melee last 30s.

I can use skills such as channels, curse, etc.. to get around wings, what does someone do to a sorc camping mines?

Also you should learn how reflect works, yeah it 30% 'increased dmg' but that dmg also gets mitigated by the dk's resistance ( easily 20k - 33k on any mag dk build) and by the dk's elemental defender cp and then it gets mitigated again by the sorc's resistance and cp before it hits, if it hits.

So you throw a 14k tooltip frag at me, i have 25k spell resistances which is easy to get on a s&b dk in light armor that is 37.5% reduction, then include the 15% reduction from cp:

14000 x 0.85 = 11900

11900 x 0.625 = 7437.5.

So before battle spirit and the sorcs own armor that frag is down to 7.4k dmg. Likely to around 4-5k when the sorc mitigation comes in.

Then half it and time by 1.3 for the OP (30% increased dmg).

in terms of the wings reflect, im pretty sure the dmg gets 2xbattle spirit debuffs. It takes off 50% for your calc and then 50% for the person who initially threw the projectile. Wings is really a wasted slot

Apherius

Aquanova wrote: »

Ironic isn't it that the class ZOS meant for the slow burn play style really isn't designed for it. At least the magicka version.

Dks have no passives that increase mag regen or max mag, unlike mag NB and Sorcs. No skill that does that either like templars rune. We have a passive that returns stats, but that calls for using an ultimate and the one most dks prefer is 250 ultimate, not in the 150 ultimate range which I would think would be a better cost for standard but apparently ZOS feels it would be OP.

If you look at it, dk is designed to synergize with stamina....period!

Sure it's doable ( I've played mine since 2014 and never went back to stam ) mainly cause I can't afford to due to skill points. He's my crafter, but it takes a lot more work in pvp to do well with it than every other class I've played and I play them all.

The standard is the best Dps ultimate of the game man .

Wollust

Apherius wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Ironic isn't it that the class ZOS meant for the slow burn play style really isn't designed for it. At least the magicka version.

Dks have no passives that increase mag regen or max mag, unlike mag NB and Sorcs. No skill that does that either like templars rune. We have a passive that returns stats, but that calls for using an ultimate and the one most dks prefer is 250 ultimate, not in the 150 ultimate range which I would think would be a better cost for standard but apparently ZOS feels it would be OP.

If you look at it, dk is designed to synergize with stamina....period!

Sure it's doable ( I've played mine since 2014 and never went back to stam ) mainly cause I can't afford to due to skill points. He's my crafter, but it takes a lot more work in pvp to do well with it than every other class I've played and I play them all.

The standard is the best Dps ultimate of the game man .

Pretty obvious that this isn't about PvE ain't it?

DKsUnite

Wollust wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Ironic isn't it that the class ZOS meant for the slow burn play style really isn't designed for it. At least the magicka version.

Dks have no passives that increase mag regen or max mag, unlike mag NB and Sorcs. No skill that does that either like templars rune. We have a passive that returns stats, but that calls for using an ultimate and the one most dks prefer is 250 ultimate, not in the 150 ultimate range which I would think would be a better cost for standard but apparently ZOS feels it would be OP.

If you look at it, dk is designed to synergize with stamina....period!

Sure it's doable ( I've played mine since 2014 and never went back to stam ) mainly cause I can't afford to due to skill points. He's my crafter, but it takes a lot more work in pvp to do well with it than every other class I've played and I play them all.

The standard is the best Dps ultimate of the game man .

Pretty obvious that this isn't about PvE ain't it?

this is the reason it can't be changed though.... it would *** with pve too much so his point is valid

Kaghei

Dubhliam wrote: »

You should use wings sparingly.

They are not to be spammed, and kept up 100% of the time.
Otherwise, DKs would be OP.
I know, my main is one.

I agree there is room for improvement, but DKs have great resource management if you know how to build one.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm getting a little tired of dks complaining about wing duration and even comparing them to sorc shields... they REFLECT projectiles at something like 30% increased damage. Wings are an active counter offensive skill for any ranged dps, and there's nothing quite like fighting a DK and having your own 13k crystal frag on your death recap.

And magicka skills costing more is generally attributed to the fact that we don't block, dodgeroll, or sprint with magicka.

Shouldnt been spammed like cloak can be spammed?

I personally think wings are fine how they are, its a very good skill so it shouldnt be cheap but cloak can be spammed by stamina nightblade let alone magicka nightblades.
cloak counters all
fear counters melee
Streak and mines can easily counter melee
blazing shield counters melee.
wings counter ranged.

Every class has a counter for class archetypes.

the game is pretty balanced right now, just like it was in 1,5. People are complaining about OP cancer builds but everyone class has a 'cancer' build. Thats balance.



I personally think MDK is very close to being good. I think it needs a little bit more sustain built into the class either through passives or skills. Then gear can be designed around burst.
edit: And mobility

Wollust

DKsUnite wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Ironic isn't it that the class ZOS meant for the slow burn play style really isn't designed for it. At least the magicka version.

Dks have no passives that increase mag regen or max mag, unlike mag NB and Sorcs. No skill that does that either like templars rune. We have a passive that returns stats, but that calls for using an ultimate and the one most dks prefer is 250 ultimate, not in the 150 ultimate range which I would think would be a better cost for standard but apparently ZOS feels it would be OP.

If you look at it, dk is designed to synergize with stamina....period!

Sure it's doable ( I've played mine since 2014 and never went back to stam ) mainly cause I can't afford to due to skill points. He's my crafter, but it takes a lot more work in pvp to do well with it than every other class I've played and I play them all.

The standard is the best Dps ultimate of the game man .

Pretty obvious that this isn't about PvE ain't it?

this is the reason it can't be changed though.... it would *** with pve too much so his point is valid

That's true, but that's why I'd rather see something done about the shifting standard. Kinda having Standard of Might remain mainly for PvE (where it is extremely powerful) and gearing Shifting more towards PvP.

RoamingRiverElk

It's a remnant from all the way back when ESO was launched and DKs (they were just DKs, they weren't called Magicka DKs) could get resources back well by using ultimates often. Ever since ultimates couldn't be fired often, magicka DK resource management has gone down. Then they introduced the stamina regen nerf to blocking, and that was the end of small group magicka DK play. I mean yeah, you can do that if you don't mind having it worse than the other classes...

DKsUnite

Kaghei wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

You should use wings sparingly.

They are not to be spammed, and kept up 100% of the time.
Otherwise, DKs would be OP.
I know, my main is one.

I agree there is room for improvement, but DKs have great resource management if you know how to build one.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm getting a little tired of dks complaining about wing duration and even comparing them to sorc shields... they REFLECT projectiles at something like 30% increased damage. Wings are an active counter offensive skill for any ranged dps, and there's nothing quite like fighting a DK and having your own 13k crystal frag on your death recap.

And magicka skills costing more is generally attributed to the fact that we don't block, dodgeroll, or sprint with magicka.

Shouldnt been spammed like cloak can be spammed?

I personally think wings are fine how they are, its a very good skill so it shouldnt be cheap but cloak can be spammed by stamina nightblade let alone magicka nightblades.
cloak counters all
fear counters melee
Streak and mines can easily counter melee
blazing shield counters melee.
wings counter ranged.

Every class has a counter for class archetypes.

the game is pretty balanced right now, just like it was in 1,5. People are complaining about OP cancer builds but everyone class has a 'cancer' build. Thats balance.

stamina has cancer builds. Magicka has the magplar cancer builds. There really isn't mSorc/mDK/mNB cancer builds

Kaghei

DKsUnite wrote: »

Kaghei wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

You should use wings sparingly.

They are not to be spammed, and kept up 100% of the time.
Otherwise, DKs would be OP.
I know, my main is one.

I agree there is room for improvement, but DKs have great resource management if you know how to build one.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I'm getting a little tired of dks complaining about wing duration and even comparing them to sorc shields... they REFLECT projectiles at something like 30% increased damage. Wings are an active counter offensive skill for any ranged dps, and there's nothing quite like fighting a DK and having your own 13k crystal frag on your death recap.

And magicka skills costing more is generally attributed to the fact that we don't block, dodgeroll, or sprint with magicka.

Shouldnt been spammed like cloak can be spammed?

I personally think wings are fine how they are, its a very good skill so it shouldnt be cheap but cloak can be spammed by stamina nightblade let alone magicka nightblades.
cloak counters all
fear counters melee
Streak and mines can easily counter melee
blazing shield counters melee.
wings counter ranged.

Every class has a counter for class archetypes.

the game is pretty balanced right now, just like it was in 1,5. People are complaining about OP cancer builds but everyone class has a 'cancer' build. Thats balance.

stamina has cancer builds. Magicka has the magplar cancer builds. There really isn't mSorc/mDK/mNB cancer builds

in 1.5 it was all magicka cancer builds, now its all stamina cancer builds.
its fine if you embrace it.

Kelces

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that it's because DK's have their "battle roar", which is supposed to balance out that drain on resources.

You might argue, that it is forcing them on ultimate-generation builds and leave them few (or no) other choices. But every class has some kind of restrictions.

Kaghei

Kelces wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the feeling that it's because DK's have their "battle roar", which is supposed to balance out that drain on resources.

You might argue, that it is forcing them on ultimate-generation builds and leave them few (or no) other choices. But every class has some kind of restrictions.

if you buff battle roar you also buff stamina dk, which doesnt need a buff.

leepalmer95

Wollust wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Aquanova wrote: »

Ironic isn't it that the class ZOS meant for the slow burn play style really isn't designed for it. At least the magicka version.

Dks have no passives that increase mag regen or max mag, unlike mag NB and Sorcs. No skill that does that either like templars rune. We have a passive that returns stats, but that calls for using an ultimate and the one most dks prefer is 250 ultimate, not in the 150 ultimate range which I would think would be a better cost for standard but apparently ZOS feels it would be OP.

If you look at it, dk is designed to synergize with stamina....period!

Sure it's doable ( I've played mine since 2014 and never went back to stam ) mainly cause I can't afford to due to skill points. He's my crafter, but it takes a lot more work in pvp to do well with it than every other class I've played and I play them all.

The standard is the best Dps ultimate of the game man .

Pretty obvious that this isn't about PvE ain't it?

this is the reason it can't be changed though.... it would *** with pve too much so his point is valid

That's true, but that's why I'd rather see something done about the shifting standard. Kinda having Standard of Might remain mainly for PvE (where it is extremely powerful) and gearing Shifting more towards PvP.

Be cool if shifting got a radius increase and a snare or something, or it cc's on use.

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

It's a remnant from all the way back when ESO was launched and DKs (they were just DKs, they weren't called Magicka DKs) could get resources back well by using ultimates often. Ever since ultimates couldn't be fired often, magicka DK resource management has gone down. Then they introduced the stamina regen nerf to blocking, and that was the end of small group magicka DK play. I mean yeah, you can do that if you don't mind having it worse than the other classes...

Yeah mag dk really did just die off in 1.7, there are some hardcore players but every mag dk there is always another class that does it better and easier.

Patouf

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Yeah mag dk really did just die off in 1.7, there are some hardcore players but every mag dk there is always another class that does it better and easier.

mDK is very interresting in trial for group utility, as dps and of course and as tank. mDK is not dead for PvE, at least, but it has not the best numbers... but who cares, If you can support very well your group ?

For PvP, it is very interesting gameplay but as you said, regen magicka issue and ranged skills