Stamplar Tank VDSA.+Vet HM

Funkopotamus

I have a decent stamplar tank that I have ran every trial with. With the exception of Vet trials as I have not farmed the gear out for all of those yet and I would rather be honest and not waste other players time. I love running trials and I love helping new players get them done. My guild and I are always on Xbox NA snatching orphans from grahtwood orphanage and taking the homeless kids through trials.

My question is this.

With the VDSA update exactly how well can stamplars handle Hiath? I myself have found that Stamplars are great at tanking as long as you are able to get shards thrown at you and manage your resources. That being said Stamplars do not have the luxury of wearing BloodSpawn/Werewolf/Dragon combos and just blasting warhorn every 52 seconds to get resources back.

Are there any Stamplars out there that could throw me a few pointers to self sustaining against Hiath? I know it will be a Pita. I also understand that a certain Dev wants us all to play DK's and ONLY DK's for tanking, but....................... I HATE THAT!! lol..

So if there are any fellow stamplars that are now Main tanking Vet trials or even holding those "1337" Tanking test on Hiath I would love to hear your input or even better maybe throw us up a video..

Funkopotamus

So after seeing the 70+ views on this topic and not one reply or helpful post I went into the game and discussed this matter with a few elite dank tanks that I know.

Sadly what I have come to understand is that yeah a Stamplar might be able to tank all trial "As I have", but there are few and I do mean a select few that can sustain vet trials never the less VDSA. BUT what bothers me is that even those Templar tanks are telling me that when Vet hard mode hits there is no way in -Blank- that they are going in there trying to tank.

Now I have main tanked in just about every MMO worth playing since EQ BETA! one of the hardest believe it or not was RIFT that game pressured the tank to a point that if he made one JUST one mistake the party wiped. Now I do not mind that mechanic at all. In fact I love it. What I do not like is the lack of tools available to get the job done.

I have honestly wanted to find exactly where the issue is with stamplar tanking and I have maxed out the block Mitigation through CP points and I have thrown reduced block cost on 5 pieces of gear.... That being said, nobody has ever found a hard/soft cap for block MIT. All I hear from everyone is that max CP and 5 piece is about cap.. But we are still guessing on this.

What I have found is that as long as I have shards I can tank just about anything. When we look at DK tanks they can "cheat" and get resources back through WH. and a few others. It is not a matter of less defense as I know DK's with def. cap just like myself and they have no issue with sustain.

What this leaves me to believe is that DK's are the chosen ones.. Templars simply cannot sustain at a level to be welcome in the Hard mode content. Now if it is a L2P issues that's fine, but please explain in detain how it is a L2P issue. Like I said I am not a horrible tank and I get invites before I can even feed my mount on most days. BUT I want to be the best tank possible. I am not to proud to "just roll a DK" if I have too.

Last night I had a good friend ask me to come tank VET AA Hard but I knew better than to waste the groups time as those axes would have split my cheeks open! Should we Templars just give it up and roll a DK?

Thanks for reading or "Rereading" this.. and please jump in here if you can help me out!

ClockworkArc

I kinda shelved my stamplar tank but in all honesty, you can do it.

I firmly believe that. I haven't actually tanked vet trials or vdsa with mine but I've done all other content.

My suggestion for 1Tam is to use Blackrose Jewelry since Blackrose doesn't drop in sturdy. It's great sustain and you could pair it with Engine Guardian and/or a trial tank set. Then you use Restoring Focus and Blazing Shield. It's powerful.

The new SnB ult will also really help with sustain for templar tanks in general. vDSA and Vet HM are totally doable.

For Hiath I'd use a bow on my back bar for mobility. It's an easy fight if you kite well. At least that's what I learned as a Mag Sorc Tank.

Funkopotamus

Thank you Clockwork..

The build I have used is http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/born-again-templar-stamina-templar-trials-tank/

That thing with a few tweaks is a BEAST!..

Like I said I am able to tank most everything. It just frustrates me to no end when I get molested in a Vet trial.. If it is L2P then fine "Teach me how to dougie" if you please.

I have looked at the new tanking sets and yes BRose does look tasty.

My problem is NEVER trash mob tanking.. The crap gets real when im up on the pad tanking a boss.. That is why I am here. Heck anyone can tankNspank through trash, but when mechanics get involved and resources start to get slim I get into trouble.

BHoth

I've recently started playing (again, I bought eso when it came out but dropped it for various reasons) and I chose a Templar since I love tanking and it seemed the most defensive class. This issue is of some importance to me, because I don't want to invest too much time in this character only to find out I have to re-roll in order to do that which I enjoy. Does this only apply to Stamplars, or perhaps a magika templar would fare better in such regard?

Destyran

I used to be a stamplar tank like you.
But i made a dk tank because of their passive they almost have unlimited sustain they have better cc and better buffs.

Funkopotamus

BHoth wrote: »

I've recently started playing (again, I bought eso when it came out but dropped it for various reasons) and I chose a Templar since I love tanking and it seemed the most defensive class. This issue is of some importance to me, because I don't want to invest too much time in this character only to find out I have to re-roll in order to do that which I enjoy. Does this only apply to Stamplars, or perhaps a magika templar would fare better in such regard?

Bold is exactly WHY I am here brother.

I will tell you this.. Yes Magicka Temps can tank I have seen them first hand. But the crap gets real for them just like myself when sustain comes into play and they are on the pad blocking..

The broken thing is this..

DKs can gear up to fire off WH about every 45-55 seconds allowing them to sustain at a KURAZY rate.. I know 2 tanks than are absolutely BROKEN right now because of the gear available to them right now.. I could just go roll one of those, but my heart is a Templar!~

NoMoreChillies

ClockworkArc wrote: »

My suggestion for 1Tam is to use Blackrose Jewelry since Blackrose doesn't drop in sturdy.

Will it come with jewelry in One Tamriel? Weapons and Shield also?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

The only way I can see a stam temp tank working in vDSA on the last boss is with engine guardian and repentance. It is a bit random but you get the resources back from EG and then you can repent it for even more. Like most stam tanks your magic regen ought to be really high and have a huge stam pool. What race are you as well? Regards passive would help as well. And you need to be heavy attacking as much as possible. What sets do you wear and such?

ClockworkArc

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

ClockworkArc wrote: »

My suggestion for 1Tam is to use Blackrose Jewelry since Blackrose doesn't drop in sturdy.

Will it come with jewelry in One Tamriel? Weapons and Shield also?

Rich said it himself but it isnt dropping like that on pts just yet. Its being fixed.


Honestly @Funkopotamus you have enough resources to do what you need to do. I personally believe its a meta issue that everyone thinks only dk can tank.

The meta is ulti gen for tanks and that clearly means DKs are top but realistically each class has strengths and weaknesses.

DKs have the best resource management but that's it. Everything else, I'd rank them 2nd, 3rd, or 4th on, even ultigen. Their strength is tied to ultimate use but that's all they've got.

Templars have probably the worst resource management but the best defense AND group support. All this means, is that Templars have to use at least some sort of resource management set in their gear. You can take more hits than a DK ever will and you naturally get ults up faster than they do.

DocFrost72

So, OP, I believe there are two sets that will save your stamplar! One tamriel will release one set that functions EXACTLY like battle roar, giving you resources for ulti. The other, called knight errant, gives you a heal whenever you use one hand and shield abilities to strike a target. Add to that the OH&S ultimate giving you permablock without costING stam (in fact, you can weave 4-5 times during this period), you may well be getting your answer soon.

I look forward to seeing you return with stories (and vids!) Of triumph.

Edit for pics of sets:

SublimeSparo

Yea witchmans + mazzatun + engine guardian might be the way to go-
Resources from ultimates, from your health dropping and from engine guardian.
Re the axes in AA even dk tanks need the odd shard there.
With the above setup you could go alll block cost reduction glyphs, 100pts shadow ward, rest in reduce stam cost, stack health a bit higher than normal so you can proc mazzatun more safely and talk to your healers so that if you are low on resources to not heal you until after you've gone sub 20% for the proc-
Thinking about it this setup would work quite nicely against the warrior, as about every other one of his flurries would proc mazzatun almost guaranteed.
Worth noting but you probably already know- if you get magic proc on engine guardian you can spam rune focus and usually proc another guardian (hopefully stamina, or worse case health but health can usually let you squeeze in a full heavy attack)

Funkopotamus

OMG! Doc.....

I just dropped a tear of joy..

Thank you for posting here.. Going to bed right now, but I will get back to this in the morning.

And Sublime - Its to bad you are on PS4 or I would love to pick your brain some more! Thanks so much for sharing all of this!

UhhYeah! Yea witchmans + mazzatun + engine guardian might be the way to go-
Thinking about it this setup would work quite nicely against the warrior, as about every other one of his flurries would proc mazzatun almost guaranteed.



Yeah those axes in AA on vet will SPLIT YOUR HEAD OPEN!
Man that warrior is a pain with his "Death by a thousand cuts" er wutever heh!
That looks fantastic! I need to finish farming out that Mazz set for sure right now..

Looks like I might be saved next month!

Nifty2g

tanking vet dsa requires chains

actosh

Tanking vdsa requires SWARM MOTHER MONSTERSET from 5th october on for non dk tanks.

Tanked it on pts with my nb. Was fun.
Also Tanking Trials with my stam nb tank(unfinished build), cause i got bored with my dk.

What you could do is to weave in some heavy attacks to regain stam.
All bosses have attack patterns, when u learn them u can sustain pretty ok.
On second boss in vmol i only block their heavys.

Witchmans only restores the 7k when using an 250point ultimate.
If u use dawnbreaker for example u get 3500 back since it scales with ult cost.

U could also consider to change race to argonian.
They have nice passives and the mini battleroar on potion use is nice.

ClockworkArc

Nifty2g wrote: »

tanking vet dsa requires chains

I've already completed it several times without on my mag sorc. It requires a ranged taunt.

kylewwefan

I tank VDSA on my stamblade. I ran ebon, footman, lord warden. I have thaught about switching to Mighty Chudan. It may be better to run barrier Than warhorn here.

DocFrost72

Glad you found some hope @Funkopotamus !

And @SublimeSparo , thank you for renewing my old as dirt "project lightbringer" (Making a templar build for every possible endgame position) with those ideas... >.>

GallantGuardian

DocFrost72 wrote: »

So, OP, I believe there are two sets that will save your stamplar! One tamriel will release one set that functions EXACTLY like battle roar, giving you resources for ulti. The other, called knight errant, gives you a heal whenever you use one hand and shield abilities to strike a target. Add to that the OH&S ultimate giving you permablock without costING stam (in fact, you can weave 4-5 times during this period), you may well be getting your answer soon.

I look forward to seeing you return with stories (and vids!) Of triumph.

Edit for pics of sets:

So I have also been looking for a Templar tank build for pretty much all aspects of the game... From dungeons to trials... Right now I'm using a tank/heal build that I just don't enjoy....
This set up seems interesting but I must ask just to clear things up ...

Is this a full stam attribute build? Like do I go all stam ....

Do I put in infused in the big pieces and divines in the small

Or do I include sturdy and reinforced some where there...

Would you pair this with a monster set?;... Say like blood spawn


Also just as a side what I had planned to do prior to reading this thread was

I wanted to go plague doctor and Footmans combined with blood spawn or plague Doctor and armor master...

So I'm curious how you would build this

Woeler

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

DocFrost72

GallantGuardian wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

So, OP, I believe there are two sets that will save your stamplar! One tamriel will release one set that functions EXACTLY like battle roar, giving you resources for ulti. The other, called knight errant, gives you a heal whenever you use one hand and shield abilities to strike a target. Add to that the OH&S ultimate giving you permablock without costING stam (in fact, you can weave 4-5 times during this period), you may well be getting your answer soon.

I look forward to seeing you return with stories (and vids!) Of triumph.

Edit for pics of sets:

So I have also been looking for a Templar tank build for pretty much all aspects of the game... From dungeons to trials... Right now I'm using a tank/heal build that I just don't enjoy....
This set up seems interesting but I must ask just to clear things up ...

Is this a full stam attribute build? Like do I go all stam ....

Do I put in infused in the big pieces and divines in the small

Or do I include sturdy and reinforced some where there...

Would you pair this with a monster set?;... Say like blood spawn


Also just as a side what I had planned to do prior to reading this thread was

I wanted to go plague doctor and Footmans combined with blood spawn or plague Doctor and armor master...

So I'm curious how you would build this

I'm considering making a full fledged stamina templar tank atm. I'd run the following:

5 pieces of the hist bark set (ideal is mazzatun, but personal preference) including weaps, belt and gloves plus accessories of the Witchman's set, and 2 pieces bloodspawn for ulti gen or engine guardian for the resources.

The ideal would be the chest, legs, and head pieces infused and enchanted with tri stat enchants, but I have a reinforced bloodspawn helm atm. For the rest, go sturdy. I've been told (and seen the math) to use Nirn shields, so plan accordingly. If you dont want nirn, infused would be good too.

5 heavy, 2 medium (unavoidable with witchmans, unless you want to farm weapoN and shield)


Ideal attributes would bring my health to 30k and leave the rest in stam. Tri food, and from there I'm blanking on. Will need to actually get under the hood to check it out.

DocFrost72

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Woeler

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Sustain while permablocking is basically non existent, and it does basically 0 support while tanking. A DK automatically supports just by sustaining his stamina because he needs to spam shields, weapon buffs and horns in order to sustain his own resources. As a templar you are more being supported than supporting.

About meta changes, do not expect this to happen. ZOS has been very clear time and time again with applying changes that they have very clear ideas about what classes they want to be the best tanks and healers. Ever since tamriel unlimited their changes are time and time again in favor of the dragon knight.

LadyNalcarya

But Hiath is easy to tank.
The popular strategy now requires a healer to taunt him, while tank takes all the adds to opposite side of the arena. At the start of the fight a tank drops the first flame circle at the boss' spawn, then returns to the gate and tanks the boss until the first adds spawn. Then a healer takes the boss and tank takes the adds and runs with them to the stairs, waiting for the first pull. After the pull a tank returns to take the second pair of adds (though they can be skipped by dpsing the boss hard enough). The strategy is easy, it just requires enough dps to push the boss from 100 to 75% fast enough to avoid flame circles. And the only dangerous move Hiath has is his steel tornado, for the rest of the fight he doesnt hit that hard.
Adds are a bit more difficult (since there's 2-4 of them), but you dont need to permablok them, just avoid or block heavy hitting attacks, and as long as you have vigor, you should be able to survive.
Veteran trials, on the other hand, are a different beast, and tbh templar would be my last choice for them. The only unique stamina templar's skill is Power of the Light, but its usually used by healers already.
And even though I like sap tank/tankheal for dungeons (because trial dk is too boring for them, imo its an overkill), for trials nothing beats ulti-builder dk tank, and I agree with Woeler.

RazorCaltrops

ClockworkArc wrote: »

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

ClockworkArc wrote: »

My suggestion for 1Tam is to use Blackrose Jewelry since Blackrose doesn't drop in sturdy.

Will it come with jewelry in One Tamriel? Weapons and Shield also?

The meta is ulti gen for tanks and that clearly means DKs are top but realistically each class has strengths and weaknesses.

DKs have the best resource management but that's it. Everything else, I'd rank them 2nd, 3rd, or 4th on, even ultigen. Their strength is tied to ultimate use but that's all they've got.

DKs have more than just resource management. Chains, AoE CC and AoE Minor Maim are just a couple of examples. I agree, a Nightblade tank can generate ultimate much faster than a DK, or every other class can mitigate as much damage. But none have the completeness of a DK tank.

DocFrost72

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Sustain while permablocking is basically non existent, and it does basically 0 support while tanking. A DK automatically supports just by sustaining his stamina because he needs to spam shields, weapon buffs and horns in order to sustain his own resources. As a templar you are more being supported than supporting.

About meta changes, do not expect this to happen. ZOS has been very clear time and time again with applying changes that they have very clear ideas about what classes they want to be the best tanks and healers. Ever since tamriel unlimited their changes are time and time again in favor of the dragon knight.

To push back for the sake of understanding and respectful dialogue, my tank that I put together this morning is at 30k health, 31k stamina, 16k magicka. Running histbark/witchman's/Engine guardian or bloodspawn (still figuring our which to take). On warhorn use I generate 6500 stamina and 7k+ health back. Granted, I do not have igneous shield. What I do have, however, is the dawns wrath tree.

Dawns wrath abilities generate ultimate every 4 seconds, much like nightblades. Using a dawns wrath ability also gives my whole team minor sorcery, increasing SD by 5%. The ability I use is power of the light, which also conveniently reduces the armor and spell resistance of the target with minor breach/fracture. In addition, it stores damage and releases it after 6 seconds, which in turn adds to the DPS of the group as a whole.

As for permablocking, Engine guardian has three procs, and all three grant stamina on templars. If it is red, you may very well find it possible to heavy attack and regen some lost stam. Even if you cannot drop block you can repent the sphere corpse for 3k stamina. In context: 5% of 30k stamina is 1500, so each sphere corpse is two igneous shields, minus the minor brutality buff. These repents also heal you, remember. If the sphere is blue, you can essentially spam the crap out of restoring focus and usually get another proc. And if it is green? Full stam bar, plus a 3k corpse that hangs around for a few moments, letting you top off after the fact.

I will concede the following, however. Templars have nothing quite like chains or talons. I honestly do ask, however, if these two things play a major part in anything other than trash stacking for quicker burning?

@Woeler

PS: Hopefully not coming across as confrontational, but I personally think you may have left out some things when computing templar tank viability.

Woeler

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Sustain while permablocking is basically non existent, and it does basically 0 support while tanking. A DK automatically supports just by sustaining his stamina because he needs to spam shields, weapon buffs and horns in order to sustain his own resources. As a templar you are more being supported than supporting.

About meta changes, do not expect this to happen. ZOS has been very clear time and time again with applying changes that they have very clear ideas about what classes they want to be the best tanks and healers. Ever since tamriel unlimited their changes are time and time again in favor of the dragon knight.

To push back for the sake of understanding and respectful dialogue, my tank that I put together this morning is at 30k health, 31k stamina, 16k magicka. Running histbark/witchman's/Engine guardian or bloodspawn (still figuring our which to take). On warhorn use I generate 6500 stamina and 7k+ health back. Granted, I do not have igneous shield. What I do have, however, is the dawns wrath tree.

Dawns wrath abilities generate ultimate every 4 seconds, much like nightblades. Using a dawns wrath ability also gives my whole team minor sorcery, increasing SD by 5%. The ability I use is power of the light, which also conveniently reduces the armor and spell resistance of the target with minor breach/fracture. In addition, it stores damage and releases it after 6 seconds, which in turn adds to the DPS of the group as a whole.

As for permablocking, Engine guardian has three procs, and all three grant stamina on templars. If it is red, you may very well find it possible to heavy attack and regen some lost stam. Even if you cannot drop block you can repent the sphere corpse for 3k stamina. In context: 5% of 30k stamina is 1500, so each sphere corpse is two igneous shields, minus the minor brutality buff. These repents also heal you, remember. If the sphere is blue, you can essentially spam the crap out of restoring focus and usually get another proc. And if it is green? Full stam bar, plus a 3k corpse that hangs around for a few moments, letting you top off after the fact.

I will concede the following, however. Templars have nothing quite like chains or talons. I honestly do ask, however, if these two things play a major part in anything other than trash stacking for quicker burning?

@Woeler

PS: Hopefully not coming across as confrontational, but I personally think you may have left out some things when computing templar tank viability.

No, because you need to waste all your sets just on sustain, while I can wear ebon and alkosh for support. You can only focus on yourself, like I said, while I do not need to focus on myself at all and am instead buffing my group. I'm wearing sets that give my group more health, more damage and more horns. You're wearing sets trying not to die.

Sure ever class can technically sustain if they just focus everything on survivability and just sit there holding agro. But that is not difficult at all. The point of a tank is what else can you do while holding agro. A DK can do a lot. The rest of the classes, not so much.

And engine guardian, well, people thag knoe me know my opinion on that set...

DocFrost72

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Sustain while permablocking is basically non existent, and it does basically 0 support while tanking. A DK automatically supports just by sustaining his stamina because he needs to spam shields, weapon buffs and horns in order to sustain his own resources. As a templar you are more being supported than supporting.

About meta changes, do not expect this to happen. ZOS has been very clear time and time again with applying changes that they have very clear ideas about what classes they want to be the best tanks and healers. Ever since tamriel unlimited their changes are time and time again in favor of the dragon knight.

To push back for the sake of understanding and respectful dialogue, my tank that I put together this morning is at 30k health, 31k stamina, 16k magicka. Running histbark/witchman's/Engine guardian or bloodspawn (still figuring our which to take). On warhorn use I generate 6500 stamina and 7k+ health back. Granted, I do not have igneous shield. What I do have, however, is the dawns wrath tree.

Dawns wrath abilities generate ultimate every 4 seconds, much like nightblades. Using a dawns wrath ability also gives my whole team minor sorcery, increasing SD by 5%. The ability I use is power of the light, which also conveniently reduces the armor and spell resistance of the target with minor breach/fracture. In addition, it stores damage and releases it after 6 seconds, which in turn adds to the DPS of the group as a whole.

As for permablocking, Engine guardian has three procs, and all three grant stamina on templars. If it is red, you may very well find it possible to heavy attack and regen some lost stam. Even if you cannot drop block you can repent the sphere corpse for 3k stamina. In context: 5% of 30k stamina is 1500, so each sphere corpse is two igneous shields, minus the minor brutality buff. These repents also heal you, remember. If the sphere is blue, you can essentially spam the crap out of restoring focus and usually get another proc. And if it is green? Full stam bar, plus a 3k corpse that hangs around for a few moments, letting you top off after the fact.

I will concede the following, however. Templars have nothing quite like chains or talons. I honestly do ask, however, if these two things play a major part in anything other than trash stacking for quicker burning?

@Woeler

PS: Hopefully not coming across as confrontational, but I personally think you may have left out some things when computing templar tank viability.

No, because you need to waste all your sets just on sustain, while I can wear ebon and alkosh for support. You can only focus on yourself, like I said, while I do not need to focus on myself at all and am instead buffing my group. I'm wearing sets that give my group more health, more damage and more horns. You're wearing sets trying not to die.

Sure ever class can technically sustain if they just focus everything on survivability and just sit there holding agro. But that is not difficult at all. The point of a tank is what else can you do while holding agro. A DK can do a lot. The rest of the classes, not so much.

And engine guardian, well, people thag knoe me know my opinion on that set...

Point taken. I will agree that a DK has better resource management in that I have to wear a set (or two) for it. I will, however, respectfully disagree that templars giving minor sorcery, minor and major armor piering, and some 18-20k damage from PotL is "not much."

All this aside, thank you for the insight.

GallantGuardian

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Sustain while permablocking is basically non existent, and it does basically 0 support while tanking. A DK automatically supports just by sustaining his stamina because he needs to spam shields, weapon buffs and horns in order to sustain his own resources. As a templar you are more being supported than supporting.

About meta changes, do not expect this to happen. ZOS has been very clear time and time again with applying changes that they have very clear ideas about what classes they want to be the best tanks and healers. Ever since tamriel unlimited their changes are time and time again in favor of the dragon knight.

To push back for the sake of understanding and respectful dialogue, my tank that I put together this morning is at 30k health, 31k stamina, 16k magicka. Running histbark/witchman's/Engine guardian or bloodspawn (still figuring our which to take). On warhorn use I generate 6500 stamina and 7k+ health back. Granted, I do not have igneous shield. What I do have, however, is the dawns wrath tree.

Dawns wrath abilities generate ultimate every 4 seconds, much like nightblades. Using a dawns wrath ability also gives my whole team minor sorcery, increasing SD by 5%. The ability I use is power of the light, which also conveniently reduces the armor and spell resistance of the target with minor breach/fracture. In addition, it stores damage and releases it after 6 seconds, which in turn adds to the DPS of the group as a whole.

As for permablocking, Engine guardian has three procs, and all three grant stamina on templars. If it is red, you may very well find it possible to heavy attack and regen some lost stam. Even if you cannot drop block you can repent the sphere corpse for 3k stamina. In context: 5% of 30k stamina is 1500, so each sphere corpse is two igneous shields, minus the minor brutality buff. These repents also heal you, remember. If the sphere is blue, you can essentially spam the crap out of restoring focus and usually get another proc. And if it is green? Full stam bar, plus a 3k corpse that hangs around for a few moments, letting you top off after the fact.

I will concede the following, however. Templars have nothing quite like chains or talons. I honestly do ask, however, if these two things play a major part in anything other than trash stacking for quicker burning?

@Woeler

PS: Hopefully not coming across as confrontational, but I personally think you may have left out some things when computing templar tank viability.

May i ask how the set up worked for you thus far the histbark/witchman/bloodspawn or engine set up?

As for traits... should i go infused on chest legs head and shields then sturdy into the rest? Or should i go tri stat on the big pieces and divines on the rest... also i feel like i should keep my magicka regen Mundas and switch it out to health during trials...

Id really just like to have one effective set of gear for both trials and dungeons with out having to switch out....

Woeler

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Sustain while permablocking is basically non existent, and it does basically 0 support while tanking. A DK automatically supports just by sustaining his stamina because he needs to spam shields, weapon buffs and horns in order to sustain his own resources. As a templar you are more being supported than supporting.

About meta changes, do not expect this to happen. ZOS has been very clear time and time again with applying changes that they have very clear ideas about what classes they want to be the best tanks and healers. Ever since tamriel unlimited their changes are time and time again in favor of the dragon knight.

To push back for the sake of understanding and respectful dialogue, my tank that I put together this morning is at 30k health, 31k stamina, 16k magicka. Running histbark/witchman's/Engine guardian or bloodspawn (still figuring our which to take). On warhorn use I generate 6500 stamina and 7k+ health back. Granted, I do not have igneous shield. What I do have, however, is the dawns wrath tree.

Dawns wrath abilities generate ultimate every 4 seconds, much like nightblades. Using a dawns wrath ability also gives my whole team minor sorcery, increasing SD by 5%. The ability I use is power of the light, which also conveniently reduces the armor and spell resistance of the target with minor breach/fracture. In addition, it stores damage and releases it after 6 seconds, which in turn adds to the DPS of the group as a whole.

As for permablocking, Engine guardian has three procs, and all three grant stamina on templars. If it is red, you may very well find it possible to heavy attack and regen some lost stam. Even if you cannot drop block you can repent the sphere corpse for 3k stamina. In context: 5% of 30k stamina is 1500, so each sphere corpse is two igneous shields, minus the minor brutality buff. These repents also heal you, remember. If the sphere is blue, you can essentially spam the crap out of restoring focus and usually get another proc. And if it is green? Full stam bar, plus a 3k corpse that hangs around for a few moments, letting you top off after the fact.

I will concede the following, however. Templars have nothing quite like chains or talons. I honestly do ask, however, if these two things play a major part in anything other than trash stacking for quicker burning?

@Woeler

PS: Hopefully not coming across as confrontational, but I personally think you may have left out some things when computing templar tank viability.

No, because you need to waste all your sets just on sustain, while I can wear ebon and alkosh for support. You can only focus on yourself, like I said, while I do not need to focus on myself at all and am instead buffing my group. I'm wearing sets that give my group more health, more damage and more horns. You're wearing sets trying not to die.

Sure ever class can technically sustain if they just focus everything on survivability and just sit there holding agro. But that is not difficult at all. The point of a tank is what else can you do while holding agro. A DK can do a lot. The rest of the classes, not so much.

And engine guardian, well, people thag knoe me know my opinion on that set...

Point taken. I will agree that a DK has better resource management in that I have to wear a set (or two) for it. I will, however, respectfully disagree that templars giving minor sorcery, minor and major armor piering, and some 18-20k damage from PotL is "not much."

All this aside, thank you for the insight.

Every tank has pierce armor, that is not templar exclusive. You have templar healers and maybe DD's. They give minor sorcery and it does not stack. Power of the light (aka minor fracture and breach) can be run by either a healer or if you have one a stam templar. Either way is minor breach 3x weaker than Alkosh, and alkosh costs nothing to apply. Alkosh is a unique debuff and ebon is a unique buff, plus my extra ulti from bloodspawn. A DK has all three and a stronger resource management. Whichever aspect you want to reach, other classes will have to make valuable compromises. The dk does not. Next to that I'm spamming shields all the time and I have room to use vigor, because I have spare resources.

DocFrost72

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

The problem here is simple. Yes, you can do it. BUT groups doing this content are looking for progress. Everyone wants to optimize. A templar tank is not and will never be optimal. It cannot provide the sustain nor the support of a dragonknight.

It's not an issue of "you can't". It's simply unfair to the other 11 players to play progress content with something that is obviously not optimal.

But people don't want to listen. All i hear is that "I hate other classes tanking". Nah, just being realistic here. You won't play a dragonknight healer in a progress group for thr same reasons you won't play a templar tank. Yes, it can be done, but in the end everybody needs to work around you and your suboptimal choice.

/rant

Edit,
Saw you wanted advice on Hiath. Have you tried the new 1H/S ultimate?

@Woeler

I know you are correct with a standard group. That said, new metas happen all the time, and to take into account the strengths AND weaknesses helps us all to be a better player. What would you say the crucial weaknesses are of templar tanks?

Sustain while permablocking is basically non existent, and it does basically 0 support while tanking. A DK automatically supports just by sustaining his stamina because he needs to spam shields, weapon buffs and horns in order to sustain his own resources. As a templar you are more being supported than supporting.

About meta changes, do not expect this to happen. ZOS has been very clear time and time again with applying changes that they have very clear ideas about what classes they want to be the best tanks and healers. Ever since tamriel unlimited their changes are time and time again in favor of the dragon knight.

To push back for the sake of understanding and respectful dialogue, my tank that I put together this morning is at 30k health, 31k stamina, 16k magicka. Running histbark/witchman's/Engine guardian or bloodspawn (still figuring our which to take). On warhorn use I generate 6500 stamina and 7k+ health back. Granted, I do not have igneous shield. What I do have, however, is the dawns wrath tree.

Dawns wrath abilities generate ultimate every 4 seconds, much like nightblades. Using a dawns wrath ability also gives my whole team minor sorcery, increasing SD by 5%. The ability I use is power of the light, which also conveniently reduces the armor and spell resistance of the target with minor breach/fracture. In addition, it stores damage and releases it after 6 seconds, which in turn adds to the DPS of the group as a whole.

As for permablocking, Engine guardian has three procs, and all three grant stamina on templars. If it is red, you may very well find it possible to heavy attack and regen some lost stam. Even if you cannot drop block you can repent the sphere corpse for 3k stamina. In context: 5% of 30k stamina is 1500, so each sphere corpse is two igneous shields, minus the minor brutality buff. These repents also heal you, remember. If the sphere is blue, you can essentially spam the crap out of restoring focus and usually get another proc. And if it is green? Full stam bar, plus a 3k corpse that hangs around for a few moments, letting you top off after the fact.

I will concede the following, however. Templars have nothing quite like chains or talons. I honestly do ask, however, if these two things play a major part in anything other than trash stacking for quicker burning?

@Woeler

PS: Hopefully not coming across as confrontational, but I personally think you may have left out some things when computing templar tank viability.

No, because you need to waste all your sets just on sustain, while I can wear ebon and alkosh for support. You can only focus on yourself, like I said, while I do not need to focus on myself at all and am instead buffing my group. I'm wearing sets that give my group more health, more damage and more horns. You're wearing sets trying not to die.

Sure ever class can technically sustain if they just focus everything on survivability and just sit there holding agro. But that is not difficult at all. The point of a tank is what else can you do while holding agro. A DK can do a lot. The rest of the classes, not so much.

And engine guardian, well, people thag knoe me know my opinion on that set...

Point taken. I will agree that a DK has better resource management in that I have to wear a set (or two) for it. I will, however, respectfully disagree that templars giving minor sorcery, minor and major armor piering, and some 18-20k damage from PotL is "not much."

All this aside, thank you for the insight.

Every tank has pierce armor, that is not templar exclusive. You have templar healers and maybe DD's. They give minor sorcery and it does not stack. Power of the light (aka minor fracture and breach) can be run by either a healer or if you have one a stam templar. Either way is minor breach 3x weaker than Alkosh, and alkosh costs nothing to apply. Alkosh is a unique debuff and ebon is a unique buff, plus my extra ulti from bloodspawn. A DK has all three and a stronger resource management. Whichever aspect you want to reach, other classes will have to make valuable compromises. The dk does not. Next to that I'm spamming shields all the time and I have room to use vigor, because I have spare resources.

You misunderstood- armor piercing referring to PotL. And of course healers and DDs can run dawns wrath abilities- just like they can run igneous weapons or shields. And as for alkosh or ebon, I could easily wear one instead of histbark- as I said, I just made this to try. I'd need to get another set.

Again, if we assume the standard group DKs have a lot to offer, but not every group is a standard group, and just because that is how teams run now does not mean there is no room for innovation. Sorc off tanks saw use in MoL to do the back room. Perhaps there will be an upcoming dungeon (or a hereto untested group formation) that would benefit from temolars tanking.

At any rate, I definately feel that a templar can complete the content.