Why Stamina cost of the skills are roughly 25% cheaper than their magicka versions?

Bashev

Stamina morph of the skills are roughly 25% cheaper than their magicka versions? Why?

Venomous Claw - 1075 Stamina
Burning Embers - 1350 Magicka

Noxious Breath - 2151 Stamina
Engulfing Flames - 2700 Magicka

Killer's Blade - 1511 Stamina
Impale - 1890 Magicka

Surprise Attack - 2160 Stamina
Concealed Weapon - 2700 Magicka

Power Extraction - 2592 Stamina
Sap Essence - 3240 Magicka

Hurricane - 3240 Stamina
Boundless Storm - 4050 Magicka

@Wrobel can you explain the logic here? Medium and light armor passives for cost reductions are the same since long time ago.

Nestor

champ passives?

captainwolfos

Presumably because stamina also goes towards sprinting. Magicka is only used for Magicka abilities.

Panda_iMunch

Maybe because you also use stam for running, blocking, and rolling? I could be wrong, but it sure makes it better to be stam in PvP

emily3989

I was pure mag NB and never ran out of magic. Now I am pure stamina and I have to pay attention. Don't know why, perhaps some STA abilities I use are inherently more spamable than the mag ones? I tap sprint going into fight. Blocking dodge rolling. It all adds up.

SickDuck

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

emily3989

My sat and mag were not too diff I don't think but there is so much fine tuning with glyphs and gear and CPs when switching it is hard to compare.

Bashev

Nestor wrote: »

champ passives?

This is the basic cost of the skills for CP160. No reduction at all.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Maybe because you also use stam for running, blocking, and rolling? I could be wrong, but
it sure makes it better to be stam in PvP

But you have reduction of running and roll dodging in medium armor passives. And we used to have a reduction for blocking in heavy.

emily3989

Reduction yes but not removal.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Are we sure about this? I haven't come across many stam builds who forego weapon damage for max stamina. Then again you could be talking about the Mage Guild passive but using all 5 MG abilities would be a pretty awful idea I think. I use 3 of them and that's hard enough.

davidj8291

Are you testing this on the respective builds or just looking at the stats on a Stam build? Because Stam moves will be cheaper on a Stam build.

Bashev

davidj8291 wrote: »

Are you testing this on the respective builds or just looking at the stats on a Stam build? Because Stam moves will be cheaper on a Stam build.

I already said that there is no reduction. The values are the base cost.
You can also check here --> http://esolog.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

Mic1007

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Are we sure about this? I haven't come across many stam builds who forego weapon damage for max stamina. Then again you could be talking about the Mage Guild passive but using all 5 MG abilities would be a pretty awful idea I think. I use 3 of them and that's hard enough.

Both MagSorcs and Magblades get an extra 8% magicka from their class, on top of the 5% Inner Light can give you, and the 4% from having both Meteor and Inner Light. With Healthy Willpower Jewelry, I had 43k Magicka on my Magblade. I'm sure 50k is easily doable.

Manoekin

Mic1007 wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Are we sure about this? I haven't come across many stam builds who forego weapon damage for max stamina. Then again you could be talking about the Mage Guild passive but using all 5 MG abilities would be a pretty awful idea I think. I use 3 of them and that's hard enough.

Both MagSorcs and Magblades get an extra 8% magicka from their class, on top of the 5% Inner Light can give you, and the 4% from having both Meteor and Inner Light. With Healthy Willpower Jewelry, I had 43k Magicka on my Magblade. I'm sure 50k is easily doable.

My friend has 52k stam on his sorc. The only reason you see a stam build run out of resources isn't because they're rolling, blocking, or sprinting. It is because they are built entirely for maximum damage and regen doesn't buff damage. A sorc can just dark deal, a DK can use igneous liberally, nightblades have siphon, templars have repentance (if they kill anything). The game right now is built around stamina builds being able to forego any sort of regen and get away with it easily and with no consequences. Magicka setups are left to weave a heavy attack in here and there or be careful about how often you use spells. Equilibrium is a death sentence requiring you to have a healer with you (just putting more strain on them).

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Mic1007 wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Are we sure about this? I haven't come across many stam builds who forego weapon damage for max stamina. Then again you could be talking about the Mage Guild passive but using all 5 MG abilities would be a pretty awful idea I think. I use 3 of them and that's hard enough.

Both MagSorcs and Magblades get an extra 8% magicka from their class, on top of the 5% Inner Light can give you, and the 4% from having both Meteor and Inner Light. With Healthy Willpower Jewelry, I had 43k Magicka on my Magblade. I'm sure 50k is easily doable.

I have 46k on my magplar without undaunted passives unlocked. 50k is totally doable but it is for stamina too as exhibited above.

Hempyre

captainwolfos wrote: »

Presumably because stamina also goes towards sprinting. Magicka is only used for Magicka abilities.

Ya, cuz mag toons have no need to sprint or dodge or stealth. Oh.. wait..

Not saying this is your viewpoint, but when stam is your primary stat, you tend to have it as your largest resource pool and have the regen to support it. Arguably there is very little critical need for mag. on a stam toon, maybe some buffs or what not but rarely does it become a life or death issue.

Not so for mag. users. We need the mag. pool for our skills and also stam for mobility, and this means either we sacrifice the stam regen (obviously we don't require as large a pool as stam toons) or we sacrifice our primary resource stats to increase stam amd stam support. We don't get to sprint, sneak, rolldodge etc... as long as any stam toon and our mag skill costs are higher, for (considering current meta) less return.

Some would say that having all your requirements in one resource pool is a handicap, I would disagree. I consider it far more efficient and easier to support than splitting critical needs across primary and secondary resource pools and having to support both, especially at an increased cost for similar skill requirement.

Add to that, far more passive mitigation on stam classes vs the "LA meta" on mag. toons which require active resource use and bar real estate to "match" mitigation and bonuses.

I personally run heavy on my mag. toons, as i find the LA passives don't mean anything when your an instakill. So, while a personal choice, survivabilty dictates that mag. users don't even get there own passive benefits.

So, ya, lets get this *** in line. Shall we?

SirAndy

captainwolfos wrote: »

Presumably because stamina also goes towards sprinting. Magicka is only used for Magicka abilities.

That ^^^
Because magicka is only used for magicka abilities but stamina is used for abilities stamina AND sprint/dodge/block ...


The only way to truly balance magicka and stamina would be to introduce a 4th resource for sprint/dodge/block.

Mic1007

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Mic1007 wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Are we sure about this? I haven't come across many stam builds who forego weapon damage for max stamina. Then again you could be talking about the Mage Guild passive but using all 5 MG abilities would be a pretty awful idea I think. I use 3 of them and that's hard enough.

Both MagSorcs and Magblades get an extra 8% magicka from their class, on top of the 5% Inner Light can give you, and the 4% from having both Meteor and Inner Light. With Healthy Willpower Jewelry, I had 43k Magicka on my Magblade. I'm sure 50k is easily doable.

I have 46k on my magplar without undaunted passives unlocked. 50k is totally doable but it is for stamina too as exhibited above.

Not arguing against this. I have 42k on my Stam Sorc.

dday3six

SirAndy wrote: »

captainwolfos wrote: »

Presumably because stamina also goes towards sprinting. Magicka is only used for Magicka abilities.

That ^^^
Because magicka is only used for magicka abilities but stamina is used for abilities stamina AND sprint/dodge/block ...


The only way to truly balance magicka and stamina would be to introduce a 4th resource for sprint/dodge/block.

I think that is overly complicated. The better route would be one resource for skills another for sprint/dodge/block and then the 3rd for HP. However the issue is really then the game would likely be perceived as like of an Elder Scroll title.

Jaronking

Mic1007 wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Mic1007 wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Are we sure about this? I haven't come across many stam builds who forego weapon damage for max stamina. Then again you could be talking about the Mage Guild passive but using all 5 MG abilities would be a pretty awful idea I think. I use 3 of them and that's hard enough.

Both MagSorcs and Magblades get an extra 8% magicka from their class, on top of the 5% Inner Light can give you, and the 4% from having both Meteor and Inner Light. With Healthy Willpower Jewelry, I had 43k Magicka on my Magblade. I'm sure 50k is easily doable.

I have 46k on my magplar without undaunted passives unlocked. 50k is totally doable but it is for stamina too as exhibited above.

Not arguing against this. I have 42k on my Stam Sorc.

Yes but only stam sorcs can really do that because of bound its not as easy to get that much max stam on let's say a StamBlade or stamplar.Its easier to stack max stam or magica on sorcs compare to other classes.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Bashev wrote: »

Stamina morph of the skills are roughly 25% cheaper than their magicka versions? Why?

Venomous Claw - 1075 Stamina
Burning Embers - 1350 Magicka

Noxious Breath - 2151 Stamina
Engulfing Flames - 2700 Magicka

Killer's Blade - 1511 Stamina
Impale - 1890 Magicka

Surprise Attack - 2160 Stamina
Concealed Weapon - 2700 Magicka

Power Extraction - 2592 Stamina
Sap Essence - 3240 Magicka

Hurricane - 3240 Stamina
Boundless Storm - 4050 Magicka

@Wrobel can you explain the logic here? Medium and light armor passives for cost reductions are the same since long time ago.

For balance not only is stamina used for more but unlike magic stamina's recovery with canceled if you use it to defend yourself i.e blocking. Not to mention that the number of sets and passives that increase max magic far outnumber the ones for stamina.

ArchMikem

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Where you getting the extra 10k from? If thats true my Templar is horribly missing out here.

driosketch

First off, as others have said, stamina users pull from the same resources for abilities as well as sprint, block, roll dodge, sneak, break free, and bash.

Secondly, I believe the stam costs of some abilities were reduced further in a patch back when they were trying to balance against the popular magicka meta. They might be due for another look and adjustment, but if you were wondering why they cost what they do, these are the reasons.

Jaronking

ArchMikem wrote: »

SickDuck wrote: »

Why can magicka users have about 10k bigger resource pool than stamina users?

So many questions can be raised but only thing matters in the end is the performance.

Where you getting the extra 10k from? If thats true my Templar is horribly missing out here.

It depends what gear and quality of gear you have.Plus enchantments and abilities you use.

Barlthump

Hempyre wrote: »

captainwolfos wrote: »

Presumably because stamina also goes towards sprinting. Magicka is only used for Magicka abilities.

Ya, cuz mag toons have no need to sprint or dodge or stealth. Oh.. wait..

Not saying this is your viewpoint, but when stam is your primary stat, you tend to have it as your largest resource pool and have the regen to support it. Arguably there is very little critical need for mag. on a stam toon, maybe some buffs or what not but rarely does it become a life or death issue.

Not so for mag. users. We need the mag. pool for our skills and also stam for mobility, and this means either we sacrifice the stam regen (obviously we don't require as large a pool as stam toons) or we sacrifice our primary resource stats to increase stam amd stam support. We don't get to sprint, sneak, rolldodge etc... as long as any stam toon and our mag skill costs are higher, for (considering current meta) less return.

Some would say that having all your requirements in one resource pool is a handicap, I would disagree. I consider it far more efficient and easier to support than splitting critical needs across primary and secondary resource pools and having to support both, especially at an increased cost for similar skill requirement.

Add to that, far more passive mitigation on stam classes vs the "LA meta" on mag. toons which require active resource use and bar real estate to "match" mitigation and bonuses.

I personally run heavy on my mag. toons, as i find the LA passives don't mean anything when your an instakill. So, while a personal choice, survivabilty dictates that mag. users don't even get there own passive benefits.

So, ya, lets get this *** in line. Shall we?

Ya, cuz stam toons have no need to buff or use any utility skills. Oh.. wait..

Not saying this is your viewpoint, but when magicka is your primary stat, you tend to have it as your largest resource pool and have the regen to support it. Max magicka allows for the spamming of harness magicka which is a great deal and matters in life or death situation.

Not so for stam users. We need the stam. pool for our skills and also for mobility, and this means either we sacrifice the magicka regen (obviously we don't require as large a pool as mag toons) or we sacrifice our primary resource stats to increase mag amd magicka support. We don't get to spay shields at execute range or have as much utility etc...

So, ya, lets get this *** in line. Shall we?

I got lazy to finish the entire post. Do you see where I'm coming from? Practically every single utility skill is magicka. And do you know how badly they irritate my stam toon? Hey if you wanna lower costs I would actually be happy, I used to be able to cloak on my NB forever with my 1.4k mag regen. But do you see why they increased it? A mag toon doesn't get hurt as much as a stam toon with the increased cost. Hell I used to fear at least 6 times before my max mag ran out before the increase cost. Stop asking for magicka buffs without considering how it will improve the stamina meta.

Yamenstein

Bashev wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

champ passives?

This is the basic cost of the skills for CP160. No reduction at all.

Panda_iMunch wrote: »

Maybe because you also use stam for running, blocking, and rolling? I could be wrong, but
it sure makes it better to be stam in PvP

But you have reduction of running and roll dodging in medium armor passives. And we used to have a reduction for blocking in heavy.

That doesn't matter if their are reductions. If you want to think of it like that then consider it is 25% less due to the reductions. I think they should just make it use up both magicka and stamina, then posts complaining about the 25% less expenditure of stamina on ability use wouldn't be around. Please find something else, something legitimate, to complain about please? The answer to this is very logical and straight forward.

Yamenstein

Barlthump wrote: »

Hempyre wrote: »

captainwolfos wrote: »

Presumably because stamina also goes towards sprinting. Magicka is only used for Magicka abilities.

Ya, cuz mag toons have no need to sprint or dodge or stealth. Oh.. wait..

Not saying this is your viewpoint, but when stam is your primary stat, you tend to have it as your largest resource pool and have the regen to support it. Arguably there is very little critical need for mag. on a stam toon, maybe some buffs or what not but rarely does it become a life or death issue.

Not so for mag. users. We need the mag. pool for our skills and also stam for mobility, and this means either we sacrifice the stam regen (obviously we don't require as large a pool as stam toons) or we sacrifice our primary resource stats to increase stam amd stam support. We don't get to sprint, sneak, rolldodge etc... as long as any stam toon and our mag skill costs are higher, for (considering current meta) less return.

Some would say that having all your requirements in one resource pool is a handicap, I would disagree. I consider it far more efficient and easier to support than splitting critical needs across primary and secondary resource pools and having to support both, especially at an increased cost for similar skill requirement.

Add to that, far more passive mitigation on stam classes vs the "LA meta" on mag. toons which require active resource use and bar real estate to "match" mitigation and bonuses.

I personally run heavy on my mag. toons, as i find the LA passives don't mean anything when your an instakill. So, while a personal choice, survivabilty dictates that mag. users don't even get there own passive benefits.

So, ya, lets get this *** in line. Shall we?

Ya, cuz stam toons have no need to buff or use any utility skills. Oh.. wait..

Not saying this is your viewpoint, but when magicka is your primary stat, you tend to have it as your largest resource pool and have the regen to support it. Max magicka allows for the spamming of harness magicka which is a great deal and matters in life or death situation.

Not so for stam users. We need the stam. pool for our skills and also for mobility, and this means either we sacrifice the magicka regen (obviously we don't require as large a pool as mag toons) or we sacrifice our primary resource stats to increase mag amd magicka support. We don't get to spay shields at execute range or have as much utility etc...

So, ya, lets get this *** in line. Shall we?

I got lazy to finish the entire post. Do you see where I'm coming from? Practically every single utility skill is magicka. And do you know how badly they irritate my stam toon? Hey if you wanna lower costs I would actually be happy, I used to be able to cloak on my NB forever with my 1.4k mag regen. But do you see why they increased it? A mag toon doesn't get hurt as much as a stam toon with the increased cost. Hell I used to fear at least 6 times before my max mag ran out before the increase cost. Stop asking for magicka buffs without considering how it will improve the stamina meta.

People don't like thinking about what happens outside of their own world's unfortunately. Lots of posts recently about topics that really don't need to be discussed and then argued about. Sigh.

Doctordarkspawn

All I see is useless nerfs for the same of PVP, a game mode that will never be ballanced.

Enough, Zeni. Enough.

charley222

Bashev wrote: »

Stamina morph of the skills are roughly 25% cheaper than their magicka versions? Why?

Venomous Claw - 1075 Stamina
Burning Embers - 1350 Magicka

Noxious Breath - 2151 Stamina
Engulfing Flames - 2700 Magicka

Killer's Blade - 1511 Stamina
Impale - 1890 Magicka

Surprise Attack - 2160 Stamina
Concealed Weapon - 2700 Magicka

Power Extraction - 2592 Stamina
Sap Essence - 3240 Magicka

Hurricane - 3240 Stamina
Boundless Storm - 4050 Magicka

@Wrobel can you explain the logic here? Medium and light armor passives for cost reductions are the same since long time ago.

you Joined
March 2014 and you ask this question really ? everyone from beta or the game release , know why

Yamenstein

This whole thread just smells like a troll to me.

RinaldoGandolphi

Folks are missing another point

All the stamina weapons have a 20% cost reduction passive

Then you get cost reduction from med armor

Cost reduction from CP

The cost reduction Stam skills have over mag skills in general

When using Stam weapon skills it's more then 35%

Where is Destro staff cost reduction passive?

Where is resto staff cost reduction?

Oh that's right we don't have one and destro users are forced to slot a skill in elemental drain on a precious 5 skill bar Stam builds get for free with a cost reduction weapon passive...par for the course nowadays