One Tamriel and low level gear

AsteriaStarfall

Is there any reason to even have gear below cp160 anymore? I mean you sync to cp160 everywhere, so why even have low level gear in game anymore? It isn't like new gear was introduced that had high stat points than previous. It's still the same numbers just different set bonuses. It just seems like an annoyance now more than anything for starting a new character.

So if you are synced to cp160 then just make it so all gear is now cp160 and can be equipped at level 1 since all leveling does is just to experience the story and learn to play now since it doesn't restrict where you can go.

Enodoc

Aside from skills, gear progression is the only level-based progression that we have. Without that, there'd be hardly any sense of progression at all.

AuldWolf

@Enodoc

Is that actually a bad thing? I'm not an extravert, so I don't have the whole dopamine addiction to numbers going up, so maybe I'm missing out. Personally, my brain has always found sideways progression far more appealing. Instead of something that constantly goes up and introduces endless number creep, eventually and inevitably breaking the game, we have sideways progression which adds more variety as the player goes on rather than bigger, bigger, bigger numbers.

I remember when Yahtzee was talking about this in a Zero Punctuation video and I couldn't help but think to myself that he's probably not prone to dopamine number addiction, either. That's the only possibly appeal I could see. Understand that I'm speaking in theory because I don't actually know. From my perspective, this is like theorising about smell if a person doesn't have smell. I know there's probably that buzz of seeing things getting ever bigger. Gosh, this is sounding Freudian.

Anyway! I don't know how many people here value vertical progression but since ESO is almost void of vertical progression (as you've pointed out), I honestly wouldn't mind making the jump of just having armour be cosmetic. That's bonkers, I know, but it means we'd be able to collect cosmetics and dress ourselves up however we please. Which would be lovely.

Genuinely wondered how many people playing ESO are actually, really interested in vertical progression that much. Hm. This would be a fun poll for ZOS to run.

For me, the joy of a game like ESO is having a huge variety of playstyles, a massive area to explore, lots of characters to meet and converse with, and lots of lore to read. Even a bit of choice & consequence here and there, thrown into the mix. That's what I play it for, generally speaking. I'm just ruminating, anyway. People don't ruminate enough. I'm considering the potentials and pondering over how it would change the game, for better or worse. Essentially, I'm just putting perspective out there. If there's one thing I have plenty of it's perspective.

Baldigar

Enodoc wrote: »

Aside from skills, gear progression is the only level-based progression that we have. Without that, there'd be hardly any sense of progression at all.

Skill progression is massive though. With gear, all you're doing is refreshing roughly the same stuff every few levels. With skill points, you are constantly improving your character. Gear, since it scales, isn't really improving your character anymore. If you have level 10 legendary gear and are level 10, it's going to give the same stats as cp 160 legendary gear at cp 160. So I think the focus should be more about skill points, and the many ways to get them. Leveling provides a source of them through any content that gives xp, which gives so much freedom.

I actually think the OP's suggestion is really simple and good. Just get rid of the level requirement on gear that has the cp requirement. For an account's first run-through, they will need to use gear from 1-50 and then cp 1-160, but if you are already at cp 160, then I really would love to be able to skip that progression grind for alternative characters. Would make playing interesting builds on lower level characters so much easier, without having to wait until you get to level 50. You will still feel a lot more powerful by that time though, as the skill points will continue to build your synergies and stats up.

tinythinker

AsteriaStarfall wrote: »

Is there any reason to even have gear below cp160 anymore? I mean you sync to cp160 everywhere, so why even have low level gear in game anymore? It isn't like new gear was introduced that had high stat points than previous. It's still the same numbers just different set bonuses. It just seems like an annoyance now more than anything for starting a new character.

So if you are synced to cp160 then just make it so all gear is now cp160 and can be equipped at level 1 since all leveling does is just to experience the story and learn to play now since it doesn't restrict where you can go.

There are some differences between level 10 gear scaled up and CP160 gear, but yeah, mostly it's what set you have and what quality the pieces are now. Maybe they could ditch gear levels for set bonuses that scale with how many CP you have, either absolutely or within CP ranges (1-99, 100-199, etc) up to the current gear cap.

Or they could get rid of any level/CP bonuses altogether and focus on different mats offering certain advantages/disadvantages and having mats be associated with certain areas of particular zones by geography/geology/ecology, rather than by "zone level" or "player crafting level".

Enodoc

AuldWolf wrote: »

Enodoc

Is that actually a bad thing? [...]

For me, the joy of a game like ESO is having a huge variety of playstyles, a massive area to explore, lots of characters to meet and converse with, and lots of lore to read. Even a bit of choice & consequence here and there, thrown into the mix. That's what I play it for, generally speaking. I'm just ruminating, anyway. People don't ruminate enough. I'm considering the potentials and pondering over how it would change the game, for better or worse. Essentially, I'm just putting perspective out there. If there's one thing I have plenty of it's perspective.

I actually agree with you; gear means nothing to me at all. But I know a lot of people value gear progression.

AsteriaStarfall

Enodoc wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Enodoc

Is that actually a bad thing? [...]

For me, the joy of a game like ESO is having a huge variety of playstyles, a massive area to explore, lots of characters to meet and converse with, and lots of lore to read. Even a bit of choice & consequence here and there, thrown into the mix. That's what I play it for, generally speaking. I'm just ruminating, anyway. People don't ruminate enough. I'm considering the potentials and pondering over how it would change the game, for better or worse. Essentially, I'm just putting perspective out there. If there's one thing I have plenty of it's perspective.

I actually agree with you; gear means nothing to me at all. But I know a lot of people value gear progression.

That's kind of the point of my post. If gear progression i.e. better stats than previous tier are not going to be a thing, then i see no reason to have level restrictions on gear any more.

Enodoc

AsteriaStarfall wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

AuldWolf wrote: »

Enodoc

Is that actually a bad thing? [...]

For me, the joy of a game like ESO is having a huge variety of playstyles, a massive area to explore, lots of characters to meet and converse with, and lots of lore to read. Even a bit of choice & consequence here and there, thrown into the mix. That's what I play it for, generally speaking. I'm just ruminating, anyway. People don't ruminate enough. I'm considering the potentials and pondering over how it would change the game, for better or worse. Essentially, I'm just putting perspective out there. If there's one thing I have plenty of it's perspective.

I actually agree with you; gear means nothing to me at all. But I know a lot of people value gear progression.

That's kind of the point of my post. If gear progression i.e. better stats than previous tier are not going to be a thing, then i see no reason to have level restrictions on gear any more.

But it is still a thing. The higher your level is above your gear's level, the lower the gear's stats are. You need higher level gear to get better stats.

AsteriaStarfall

Enodoc wrote: »

But it is still a thing. The higher your level is above your gear's level, the lower the gear's stats are. You need higher level gear to get better stats.

Let me put it this way for the other end of the spectrum. You hit cp160, you can equip all gear now. And since the stats are all the same, what is the point of running trials or any end game content? That 5 piece set bonus is not going to make or break completing a dungeon or trial. I'm trying to see the point of running any content for any type of gear just for one particular 5pc set bonus. Granted there are a couple jewelry sets that are above all others like willpower, but it isn't like you go on looking for a particular chest because it has 20 more crit points than another piece. They all have the same.

So for the low level gear, you hit level 10, you are wearing level 10 armor. Why not just be able to equip the cp160 gear? You are going to out level the other gear anyway, and in the end once you hit cp160 there is no gear better than that, even though we are in cp500+ points now. All the bosses have to be balanced around the same health, dps is pretty much flat lined and is only increased via champion points. So more emphasis is being put into CP points, and gear seems to be a secondary thought.

Maybe i should add this. I'm not understanding why gear like cp200 cp250 cp300 doesn't exist? It would allow for both the horizontal and vertical progressions and more so, why not actually have some gear have higher stats and maybe other stats are lower. That way actually trying to find a perfect piece might be a bit more of a challenge and give a reason to go over the same trials over and over again.

Enodoc

Yes at CP160 you can equip all gear, but if you used Level 10 gear, or even Level 50 CP20 gear, you wouldn't be very effective. There's no gear above CP160 because the player progression cap is CP160 (this specific value goes back to when VR16 was a thing, but that's not really relevant). All enemies are essentially CP160, so that's the highest gear as well. When they bring out a new gear crafting material, the progression cap will go up to something higher, say CP200, and so will all the enemies, meaning that anyone who has 200 CPs or more and is using CP160 gear will no longer be as effective until they get some CP200 gear.

Caligamy_ESO

This wider the gap between your equipment level, and your character level.. the lower all of the stats on your gear will become.

Just an FYI because I keep seeing people say why should we update gear. A CP160 in level 1 equipment would be like fighting a wet tissue.

Taleof2Cities

Issue is more apparent in Cyrodiil where all the stat points count in every category for PvP.

Even a five (5) level difference between character level and gear level is noticable on a non-vet (below level 50) character.

AshTal

I find that doing a world boss or dolmen is pointless for a char under 160, these should always drop level 160 gear not a level 8 sword I will out level in 30 minutes.

Maybe it would be better if gear level was removed. Let me craft one set of 160 gear for me new char and he uses that not constantly having to craft as he levels.

AsteriaStarfall

Enodoc wrote: »

Yes at CP160 you can equip all gear, but if you used Level 10 gear, or even Level 50 CP20 gear, you wouldn't be very effective.

Caligamy_ESO wrote: »

Just an FYI because I keep seeing people say why should we update gear. A CP160 in level 1 equipment would be like fighting a wet tissue.

I'm not talking about wearing low level gear when your character is higher. I am saying why do we not have any vertical progression past cp160 yet? seriously cp500+ and all the stats are the same on the gear from cp160 to cp531 There is NO difference. There is no reason to grind any gear except for if you really want one particular 5pc bonus because you are not increasing your stats ever past 160.

For low level, there is zero point in gear anymore. You are battle leveled to cp160 anyway. Your gear is leveled as well, so all it does is make low level people grind for gear because "the stats are better as you level" and then when you hit cp160 you realize that at this point you will never ever ever get "better stat" gear because the numbers will all be the same afterward.

I can't explain it any better than this.

Enodoc

Right, and that's because the gear cap is 160, as I said above.

But there's no difference at all between the previous system and the current system. The previous system was getting better gear because you are a higher level, and therefore you need it to be effective against higher level enemies. The current system is getting better gear because your lower gear is less effective, and therefore you need it to be effective against enemies. Both involve lower-level players grinding for gear with better stats as they level up. One Tamriel hasn't changed this in any way.