4 Tiers of difficulty and dungeons are still this easy?

pretzl

I was hoping this 4-tier system would make dungeons atleast alittle harder for the end-game (or close) community, but they're still soloable/duoable with a sub-par setup...
It's fairly easy to duo any II dungeon on veteran with Hard Mode for all achievments. Are there any plans to actually increase the difficulty considering we now have 4 possible tiers to do them on @ZOS_Finn ?

The reasoning for not increasing the difficulty since the birth of this game has always been to provide the more leant-back casual portion of the userbase with content they can complete aswell, but do they really need 4 possible tiers of difficulty? I'd think atleast one of them should enforce the use of higher-tier setups and promote skill, no?

And before people inevitably start QQing about elitism and/or making things too hard etc. you'd still have 3 other difficulties to get your keys on. Dungeons wouldn't even need to be that much harder, just difficult enough to make it mandatory to have all roles in the trinity present whilst still keeping it inside a somewhat casual nature. People shouldn't be able to solo their way to 2 keys in a single run...

Apherius

pretzl wrote: »

I was hoping this 4-tier system would make dungeons atleast alittle harder for the end-game (or close) community, but they're still soloable/duoable with a sub-par setup...
It's fairly easy to duo any II dungeon on veteran with Hard Mode for all achievments. Are there any plans to actually increase the difficulty considering we now have 4 possible tiers to do them on @ZOS_Finn ?

The reasoning for not increasing the difficulty since the birth of this game has always been to provide the more leant-back casual portion of the userbase with content they can complete aswell, but do they really need 4 possible tiers of difficulty? I'd think atleast one of them should enforce the use of higher-tier setups and promote skill, no?

And before people inevitably start QQing about elitism and/or making things too hard etc. you'd still have 3 other difficulties to get your keys on. Dungeons wouldn't even need to be that much harder, just difficult enough to make it mandatory to have all roles in the trinity present whilst still keeping it inside a somewhat casual nature. People shouldn't be able to solo their way to 2 keys in a single run...

i agree .

Mic1007

The main problem with difficulty is that once a dungeon is mastered, it becomes easy. It's therefore hard to keep dungeons hard. Especially dungeons that are so old.

Nirnrotten

I literally just finished reading a recent Nerf Dungeon thread. Specifically SOTH and IC dungeons. Those dungeons are the ones I enjoy the most!

So many polar opinions. Awesome.

DHale

We don't need a game for one percent of the player base. Take two hundred cp away from your 531 in your signature line and run the dungeon with 331 cp. that might be the challange you are looking for. I am there for a helm or shoulders in a specific trait and a specific weight. I derive no pleasure from spending two plus hours in a dungeon. Getting good a dungeons to me would be like getting good at the chores my wife makes me do.

Nirnrotten

@DHale your sentiments have been heard by the Dev team. Come One Tamriel, farming for that specific Helm and or Shoulder will take far less time than it currently does. It still won't be handed to you in the perfect weight and trait, but a drastic improvement nonetheless.

Attackopsn

DHale wrote: »

We don't need a game for one percent of the player base. Take two hundred cp away from your 531 in your signature line and run the dungeon with 331 cp. that might be the challange you are looking for. I am there for a helm or shoulders in a specific trait and a specific weight. I derive no pleasure from spending two plus hours in a dungeon. Getting good a dungeons to me would be like getting good at the chores my wife makes me do.

And you don't have to spend two hours in there, you can complete it at a lower tier of difficulty. I don't even know if these dungeons would be that difficult at 0 cp with an optimized team. Would be really cool if they released a significantly more difficult tier of difficulty with cosmetic rewards or something so that all the crybabies can't say it's preventing them from progressing in the game. To anyone that complains about dungeons too, dungeons are by far the easiest form of pve group content, and if you are struggling here, asking for a nerf to dungeons may help you beat the dungeon, but it won't help you progress as a player so that you will be prepared for the later content.

RoyJade

It's not a 4 tier of difficulty, it's still a 2 tier but with secondary stories on some dungeons.
Still, the higher tier is too easy.

pretzl

DHale wrote: »

We don't need a game for one percent of the player base. Take two hundred cp away from your 531 in your signature line and run the dungeon with 331 cp. that might be the challange you are looking for. I am there for a helm or shoulders in a specific trait and a specific weight. I derive no pleasure from spending two plus hours in a dungeon. Getting good a dungeons to me would be like getting good at the chores my wife makes me do.

I did it with 300CP templates with testing gear... 1 DD and 1 Healer.

RoyJade wrote: »

It's not a 4 tier of difficulty, it's still a 2 tier but with secondary stories on some dungeons.
Still, the higher tier is too easy.

It is a 4 tier difficulty system... you can do Dungeon I on norm and vet aswell as Dungeon II on norm and vet. That means 4 tiers of difficulty with 2 storymodes.

DHale

You don't get the helms and shoulders doing it on the lesser difficulties. So that's a no bueno. Regardless, it won't be changed so in the end I am happy with the outcome. I will just have to see if the rng gods are merciful.

DocFrost72

Let me break it down. I'm on the same level of ability (roughly) as you, OP. I went in with a buddy the other day to Vet Spindle, and when he died I mopped up the last 80% of praxtin's health.

Leave the difficulties as is.

Just because YOU are able to solo 4 man content does not mean the content is too easy. I'm gunna be brutally honest, you did it to yourself. CP, gold gear, heavily planned builds, and a wealth of knowledge on a dungeon and you wonder why it is easy? I propose to you a challenge:

Go solo dungeons or do maelstrom with 160 CP spent, blue or worse quality non set gear, and tell me how it went. Can you do it? Maybe. But I'm leveling a new toon on an alternative account right now and I have no illusions about the power creep in this game.

Go.to youtube and search for streak one's 32 minute run of vMA. "Apparently VMA is too easy, please buff it for the handful of people who can perform such an amazing feat" sounds absurd when a vast majority of players have trouble to, if not fail to, complete this content.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but there are 4 very well made DLC dungeons to enjoy for those who like harder content.

driosketch

pretzl wrote: »

RoyJade wrote: »

It's not a 4 tier of difficulty, it's still a 2 tier but with secondary stories on some dungeons.
Still, the higher tier is too easy.

It is a 4 tier difficulty system... you can do Dungeon I on norm and vet aswell as Dungeon II on norm and vet. That means 4 tiers of difficulty with 2 storymodes.

Not all dungeons have a version II, and from the sounds of it, they wanted normal, and vet, versions of I and II to be on par with one another. If anything, it's 3 tiers if you count hard mode. And I'll grant you, the last version should probably be harder. Still, you're never going to truly satisfy those looking for really difficult challenges in an MMO.

http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20160926

Well unless...
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20160928


You know, if you're looking for new challenges, try a gearless run. You can keep all your skill and CP points, you get to use food and soul gems you bring with you. Put everything else, weapons, armor, jewelry, potions, ect, in your bank. From that point on, you can only use what you find in dungeon, and your not allowed to trade with group members. Some dungeons like Fungal Grotto will be easier because of containers and racks at the start. Others like Selene's Web are largely bare. It's more fun than it sounds, and good adaptability training and team building exercise for those wanting to get better.

mobicera

Umm there isn't 4 tiers of difficulty.
Example
Normal fungal grotto story 1 and story 2
Veteran fungal grotto story 1 and story 2

I wouldn't consider hard mode on vet anything but what is always done, but you may consider it a 3rd difficulty tier if you like.

Dymence

There is no 4 tier difficulty system.

Dungeons I and II should be seen as individual dungeons. It has nothing to do with tiering. So there is still only normal and vet.

Waffennacht

Why shouldn't I be able to get two keys by soloing the hardest difficulty?

Rohamad_Ali

Matt Firor already said casuals are their main audience . They make content accordingly .

BrianDavion

Attackopsn wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

We don't need a game for one percent of the player base. Take two hundred cp away from your 531 in your signature line and run the dungeon with 331 cp. that might be the challange you are looking for. I am there for a helm or shoulders in a specific trait and a specific weight. I derive no pleasure from spending two plus hours in a dungeon. Getting good a dungeons to me would be like getting good at the chores my wife makes me do.

And you don't have to spend two hours in there, you can complete it at a lower tier of difficulty. I don't even know if these dungeons would be that difficult at 0 cp with an optimized team. Would be really cool if they released a significantly more difficult tier of difficulty with cosmetic rewards or something so that all the crybabies can't say it's preventing them from progressing in the game. To anyone that complains about dungeons too, dungeons are by far the easiest form of pve group content, and if you are struggling here, asking for a nerf to dungeons may help you beat the dungeon, but it won't help you progress as a player so that you will be prepared for the later content.

over in SWTOR Bioware started to do just that with it's nightmare difficulty raids, making them souly about getting the unique cosmetic rewards, (speeders and the like) the hard core raid community hated that. thing is the people who most appreciate cosmetic stuff tend to in my experiance be the more casual people.

pretzl

mobicera wrote: »

Umm there isn't 4 tiers of difficulty.
Example
Normal fungal grotto story 1 and story 2
Veteran fungal grotto story 1 and story 2

I wouldn't consider hard mode on vet anything but what is always done, but you may consider it a 3rd difficulty tier if you like.

Dymence wrote: »

There is no 4 tier difficulty system.

Dungeons I and II should be seen as individual dungeons. It has nothing to do with tiering. So there is still only normal and vet.

In all fairness it kindof is... Different bosses and a different story to reflect easier content, but the same name and the same environment. The difference between for example Spindle I norm and Spindle I vet as compared to Spindle II norm and Spindle II vet is pretty significant and it does make up a basic 4-tiered difficulty system. Spindle I vet is less difficult than Spindle II norm etc.

Dymence

pretzl wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

Umm there isn't 4 tiers of difficulty.
Example
Normal fungal grotto story 1 and story 2
Veteran fungal grotto story 1 and story 2

I wouldn't consider hard mode on vet anything but what is always done, but you may consider it a 3rd difficulty tier if you like.

Dymence wrote: »

There is no 4 tier difficulty system.

Dungeons I and II should be seen as individual dungeons. It has nothing to do with tiering. So there is still only normal and vet.

In all fairness it kindof is... Different bosses and a different story to reflect easier content, but the same name and the same environment. The difference between for example Spindle I norm and Spindle I vet as compared to Spindle II norm and Spindle II vet is pretty significant and it does make up a basic 4-tiered difficulty system. Spindle I vet is less difficult than Spindle II norm etc.

I don't think it was their intention to make them easier though, rather seems like a lazy conversion. From what I understood is that they're meant to be equally 'challenging'.

Trihugger

Adding more dungeons (I and II) doesn't magically make this a 4 tier system. There are still only two tiers of difficulty: Normal and Veteran.

There is no "kind of" here. Please don't misinform when trying to prove a point as now instead of commenting upon the difficulty being too easy, many people (myself included) only notice the falsehood of your 4 tier claim.

Doctordarkspawn

Shadow of the hist dungeons need nerfed.

People dont do those or ICP now. Difficulty isn't what people want, their just too scared of being yelled at by the difficulty enthusiasts to say it out loud.

What will the difficult dungeons do? What will a third difficulty tier do, for the playerbase? I'd be fine with the dudes who loooove shadow of the hist to get a third difficulty where things drop only in gold so they can flood the market and make lots of money, that's fair enough, but quit trying to suffocate the game by making it ultrahard and driving away all but the hardcore audience. If anything, a third difficulty tier needs to be made so that the devs can focus on trying to make -interesting- dungeons instead of trying to pander to a small part of the playerbase.

People have told me if we make it all easy it'll kill the game. That's not what I've seen. I've seen parts of the game that are just barren, be the hardest parts. Hopefully, when the new questgiver goes live in four days the devs will get an accurate read on what the playerbase actually wants, and tune things accordingly. There just needs to be a -three- tier difficulty system so we can finally get it out of the way.

Vaoh

Quiet @pretzl. You're sounding extremely ignorant right now.

Not everyone can solo/duo this content. I'm getting closer and closer to soloing vWGT (up to 62% Health on the Inhibitor after 3 Blue Phases) and have soloed every other soloable Vet dungeon. It does NOT mean they need buffs.

Also you are lying too. You cannot 2-man Vet Cradle of Shadows or Vet Ruins of Mazzatun on Hard Mode. Not even close. You're just extremely cocky. And getting all achievements at the same time?? Gtfo

Understand that if dungeons skyrocket in difficulty, then no one would do them. Not needing both optimal gear and 531CP to complete this content is a good thing.

Run Vet trials, or the SotH dungeons on Hard mode.

Yes you sound elitist, and no you are clearly not educated enough on this topic to push whatever elitist point you are attempting to make.

Create harder content yes, make casual content hardcore no. If a trial group can easily take down vMoL, should it be increased in difficulty?

Mojmir

once again,the problem isn't the proposed difficulty.it's the lazy "buff hps on the boss and use the same mechanic throughout the dungeon".
Leave the content as is for casuals
Development needs to create content for longevity to sustain players through drought til the next dlc.

I'd love to see a dungeon that adapts intelligently or evolves according to the players reactions and abilities.but I believe that's far off.

Osteos

I like that CoS and RoM give gear and monster helms at normal and vet levels. If all dungeons did this then the difficulty in the vet dungeons could be increased. People could still get their gear and progress.

Lumbermill_Emperor

its not 4 tier difficulty lol

only two like before
+HM of last boss
read patchnoted AGAIN pls

and edit the title of the topic because its confusing

Docmandu

We have a no CP campaign in PvP.. they could just add a no-CP mode in dungeons.

Ruben

Attackopsn wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

I am there for a helm or shoulders in a specific trait and a specific weight.

And you don't have to spend two hours in there, you can complete it at a lower tier of difficulty.

He wants a monster helm, so there is no lower tier possible.


ZOS buff reading, please.

acw37162

Easy for what 3% of the player base?

Tannus15

They wanted a low cost method of increasing the difficulty, and they went with bumping the damage and health of everything.

This doesn't increase the "difficulty" for end game players at all. It increases the duration of the fight and the margin for error. To actually make things "harder" they need to change the mechanics of the dungeon.

This is a lot of effort and not worth it in the long run.

ZoS are better off developing new content rather than refactoring the current content, which is still good content for new / casual players.

BrianDavion

fact is, players in a MMO will ALWAYS take the path of least resistance, offer two dungeons, one dead easy, and one super challanging, have them give the same rewards. we all know what 99% of the player base will choose to do

Doctordarkspawn

Mojmir wrote: »

once again,the problem isn't the proposed difficulty.it's the lazy "buff hps on the boss and use the same mechanic throughout the dungeon".
Leave the content as is for casuals
Development needs to create content for longevity to sustain players through drought til the next dlc.

I'd love to see a dungeon that adapts intelligently or evolves according to the players reactions and abilities.but I believe that's far off.

I'd like to see difficulty given a proper template or difficulty setting. I really would like for the people who want that ballbusting difficulty to have an entire dungeon to work at, on an elite, third difficulty tier, so they stop trying to rip the rest of the content from our bare hands.