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4 Tiers of difficulty and dungeons are still this easy?

  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).

    It's not irrational. It's very rational, considering now we have most of the dev cycle under Wrobel and this year geared toward difficult content. This game is not like other games, nobody cares about the gear. The gear will only be a real factor next update with all the sets. What we want, is content we can do without dedicating two hours to it. Without running the latest greatest meta build.

    You are making that impossible. And you will kill this game by hedging out whoever dislikes what is being developed, by sheer virtue of "There's more content for me, than for you."

    You want this game, you'll have to take it from my cold dead hands.

    Like the older dungeons have a different story for normal and vet. What we are proposing is add one more difficulty to it with the same story (aka content) as the vet one. So you are effectively missing 0% of the game. Just slap 40% more HP to boss and maybe 25% more damage to stuff. Add shot at gold jewellery. Same story. Same dialogue. Same dungeon.

    So doing a vet version or a hm vet version with the same story but with mobs hitting harder and more hp is taking away content that you want to do?? Explain pls. What exactly would I be prying out of your cold dead hands. Or did u even read what I wrote.

    Before, I was in favor of this. Then I slept on it for a few days.

    You realize this isn't gonna end, right? You realize this constant asking for new difficulty modes will never end with this? It''ll keep going, and going. It does not matter what you propose -now-, once you get traction with this we'll get the second wave come out of the woodwork demanding the entire game be changed to suit the difficulty crowd.

    Domino's, M'boy. You have allready monopolized the dev cycle. It wont be that hard to persuade them to focus exclusively on an audience that will seem bigger than it actually is.

    Edit: You*
    How have "we" monopolized the dev cycle? Stop being delusional. Nobody WANTS to make things too difficult. I want to take a small piece of content that many people enjoy and make it more challenging for those who are interested. It wouldn't take anything away from casuals. I don't see what the big deal is.
    pretzl wrote: »
    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.

    'Better'... Right. It's delusional to think increasing stats makes you somehow more 'skilled'. And that stuff I'm on, it's called logic. Try some. Then maybe you wouldn't be trying to *** up this game for personal self worth.

    Come back and complain after you beat everything with no cp and no armor. The entire progression system is a very long difficulty slider, and it goes from challenging to easy mode. You can start by playing with different skills, and dedicate your style to a specific niche instead of using every flavor of the month exploit you can find and then complaining that it's too easy.

    Also, the whole 'casuals' attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. Might as well be calling them noobs or scrubs. Is this game the highlight of your life? Kinda pathetic. Enjoy the one place you feel entitled to talk down to people through the cover of anonymity.

    The whole "elitist" attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. You think it's completely fine to call people elitist ***, but as soon as the "casual" word is thrown around alittle you get sand in your ***? That's certainly not logic you're on.
    Why should I remove my armor? It's a part of the game. Removing it only creates artificial difficulty
    How about instead of me removing ***, you take the time to grind some CPs and follow a meta build. I bet it'd be too much to handle for your little casual mindset.

    Every raid and dungeon released past Craglorn has been for the people who want insane difficulty.

    You have monopolized the dev cycle whether you like it or not.

    ? Have u even TRIED doing a normal raid? U can grab a random group of CP 200+ players and smash thru nAA or nSO. Ofcourse u just need semi-decent players and DPS that can pull at least 15k. But that isnt whats considered insane difficulty... And u get all loot short of gold accessories in normal mode.... So where exactly is the monopoly?

    That wasn't the case until extremely recently.

    Nice. Try. By the way. Try adressing the new points I edited in. I'd love to see how you explain a veteran dungeon having vet raid mechanics equivilent to the hardest raid in the game.

    Try putting your points into;

    I dont want more difficulty layers because;

    #1 Reason one
    #2 Reason two

    etc.

    Im having serious trouble trying to get what it is you are trying to say. Apologies if my reading comprehension is bad but please humor me. Tell me exactly why it is like u feel u are missing out on content and why harder difficulties affect your gameplay because normal mode has the same story and 99% same loot.

    I'll do it if you tell me in what reasonable universe a dungeon boss has raid mechanics.

    Theyre not comparable though.
    When vMoL was released, it took a while even for top guilds to beat it.
    When SoTh was released, I went in one of the dungeons and finished it at the first evening.

    They are compareable though.

    Yes, people beat shadows of the hist dungeons when they first released. So? Some people have not even beaten the hardmode yet, and Velindreth -still- uses mechanics that have been used in raids.

    In what universe is this acceptable? Why do dungeons need to be as hard as raids? Hardcore pandering and monopolizing the dev cycle.

    Months of effort are comparable to a couple of hours of yolo gameplay? I strongly disagree.
    Then again, there's a normal mdoe for those people. If you think youre too cool for normal modes, its not game's problem. The game even provides you the same loot for both versions.

    The games problem is the design is similar to raids. Everything is raids. Maelstrom is a 1 player raid. Velindreth is a raidboss. EVERYTHING IS RAIDS.

    Wake up, quit trying to make this game into 24/7 raids.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 4, 2016 9:31AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).

    It's not irrational. It's very rational, considering now we have most of the dev cycle under Wrobel and this year geared toward difficult content. This game is not like other games, nobody cares about the gear. The gear will only be a real factor next update with all the sets. What we want, is content we can do without dedicating two hours to it. Without running the latest greatest meta build.

    You are making that impossible. And you will kill this game by hedging out whoever dislikes what is being developed, by sheer virtue of "There's more content for me, than for you."

    You want this game, you'll have to take it from my cold dead hands.

    Like the older dungeons have a different story for normal and vet. What we are proposing is add one more difficulty to it with the same story (aka content) as the vet one. So you are effectively missing 0% of the game. Just slap 40% more HP to boss and maybe 25% more damage to stuff. Add shot at gold jewellery. Same story. Same dialogue. Same dungeon.

    So doing a vet version or a hm vet version with the same story but with mobs hitting harder and more hp is taking away content that you want to do?? Explain pls. What exactly would I be prying out of your cold dead hands. Or did u even read what I wrote.

    Before, I was in favor of this. Then I slept on it for a few days.

    You realize this isn't gonna end, right? You realize this constant asking for new difficulty modes will never end with this? It''ll keep going, and going. It does not matter what you propose -now-, once you get traction with this we'll get the second wave come out of the woodwork demanding the entire game be changed to suit the difficulty crowd.

    Domino's, M'boy. You have allready monopolized the dev cycle. It wont be that hard to persuade them to focus exclusively on an audience that will seem bigger than it actually is.

    Edit: You*
    How have "we" monopolized the dev cycle? Stop being delusional. Nobody WANTS to make things too difficult. I want to take a small piece of content that many people enjoy and make it more challenging for those who are interested. It wouldn't take anything away from casuals. I don't see what the big deal is.
    pretzl wrote: »
    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.

    'Better'... Right. It's delusional to think increasing stats makes you somehow more 'skilled'. And that stuff I'm on, it's called logic. Try some. Then maybe you wouldn't be trying to *** up this game for personal self worth.

    Come back and complain after you beat everything with no cp and no armor. The entire progression system is a very long difficulty slider, and it goes from challenging to easy mode. You can start by playing with different skills, and dedicate your style to a specific niche instead of using every flavor of the month exploit you can find and then complaining that it's too easy.

    Also, the whole 'casuals' attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. Might as well be calling them noobs or scrubs. Is this game the highlight of your life? Kinda pathetic. Enjoy the one place you feel entitled to talk down to people through the cover of anonymity.

    The whole "elitist" attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. You think it's completely fine to call people elitist ***, but as soon as the "casual" word is thrown around alittle you get sand in your ***? That's certainly not logic you're on.
    Why should I remove my armor? It's a part of the game. Removing it only creates artificial difficulty
    How about instead of me removing ***, you take the time to grind some CPs and follow a meta build. I bet it'd be too much to handle for your little casual mindset.

    Every raid and dungeon released past Craglorn has been for the people who want insane difficulty.

    You have monopolized the dev cycle whether you like it or not.

    ? Have u even TRIED doing a normal raid? U can grab a random group of CP 200+ players and smash thru nAA or nSO. Ofcourse u just need semi-decent players and DPS that can pull at least 15k. But that isnt whats considered insane difficulty... And u get all loot short of gold accessories in normal mode.... So where exactly is the monopoly?

    That wasn't the case until extremely recently.

    Nice. Try. By the way. Try adressing the new points I edited in. I'd love to see how you explain a veteran dungeon having vet raid mechanics equivilent to the hardest raid in the game.

    Try putting your points into;

    I dont want more difficulty layers because;

    #1 Reason one
    #2 Reason two

    etc.

    Im having serious trouble trying to get what it is you are trying to say. Apologies if my reading comprehension is bad but please humor me. Tell me exactly why it is like u feel u are missing out on content and why harder difficulties affect your gameplay because normal mode has the same story and 99% same loot.

    I'll do it if you tell me in what reasonable universe a dungeon boss has raid mechanics.

    Theyre not comparable though.
    When vMoL was released, it took a while even for top guilds to beat it.
    When SoTh was released, I went in one of the dungeons and finished it at the first evening.

    They are compareable though.

    Yes, people beat shadows of the hist dungeons when they first released. So? Some people have not even beaten the hardmode yet, and Velindreth -still- uses mechanics that have been used in raids.

    In what universe is this acceptable? Why do dungeons need to be as hard as raids? Hardcore pandering and monopolizing the dev cycle.

    Months of effort are comparable to a couple of hours of yolo gameplay? I strongly disagree.
    Then again, there's a normal mdoe for those people. If you think youre too cool for normal modes, its not game's problem. The game even provides you the same loot for both versions.

    The games problem is the design is similar to raids. Everything is raids. Maelstrom is a 1 player raid. Velindreth is a raidboss. EVERYTHING IS RAIDS.

    Wake up, quit trying to make this game into 24/7 raids.


    Wth are you even talking about? last time I logged in, the game consisted mostly of solo questing. Not sure if something changed since yesterday.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).

    It's not irrational. It's very rational, considering now we have most of the dev cycle under Wrobel and this year geared toward difficult content. This game is not like other games, nobody cares about the gear. The gear will only be a real factor next update with all the sets. What we want, is content we can do without dedicating two hours to it. Without running the latest greatest meta build.

    You are making that impossible. And you will kill this game by hedging out whoever dislikes what is being developed, by sheer virtue of "There's more content for me, than for you."

    You want this game, you'll have to take it from my cold dead hands.

    Like the older dungeons have a different story for normal and vet. What we are proposing is add one more difficulty to it with the same story (aka content) as the vet one. So you are effectively missing 0% of the game. Just slap 40% more HP to boss and maybe 25% more damage to stuff. Add shot at gold jewellery. Same story. Same dialogue. Same dungeon.

    So doing a vet version or a hm vet version with the same story but with mobs hitting harder and more hp is taking away content that you want to do?? Explain pls. What exactly would I be prying out of your cold dead hands. Or did u even read what I wrote.

    Before, I was in favor of this. Then I slept on it for a few days.

    You realize this isn't gonna end, right? You realize this constant asking for new difficulty modes will never end with this? It''ll keep going, and going. It does not matter what you propose -now-, once you get traction with this we'll get the second wave come out of the woodwork demanding the entire game be changed to suit the difficulty crowd.

    Domino's, M'boy. You have allready monopolized the dev cycle. It wont be that hard to persuade them to focus exclusively on an audience that will seem bigger than it actually is.

    Edit: You*
    How have "we" monopolized the dev cycle? Stop being delusional. Nobody WANTS to make things too difficult. I want to take a small piece of content that many people enjoy and make it more challenging for those who are interested. It wouldn't take anything away from casuals. I don't see what the big deal is.
    pretzl wrote: »
    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.

    'Better'... Right. It's delusional to think increasing stats makes you somehow more 'skilled'. And that stuff I'm on, it's called logic. Try some. Then maybe you wouldn't be trying to *** up this game for personal self worth.

    Come back and complain after you beat everything with no cp and no armor. The entire progression system is a very long difficulty slider, and it goes from challenging to easy mode. You can start by playing with different skills, and dedicate your style to a specific niche instead of using every flavor of the month exploit you can find and then complaining that it's too easy.

    Also, the whole 'casuals' attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. Might as well be calling them noobs or scrubs. Is this game the highlight of your life? Kinda pathetic. Enjoy the one place you feel entitled to talk down to people through the cover of anonymity.

    The whole "elitist" attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. You think it's completely fine to call people elitist ***, but as soon as the "casual" word is thrown around alittle you get sand in your ***? That's certainly not logic you're on.
    Why should I remove my armor? It's a part of the game. Removing it only creates artificial difficulty
    How about instead of me removing ***, you take the time to grind some CPs and follow a meta build. I bet it'd be too much to handle for your little casual mindset.

    Every raid and dungeon released past Craglorn has been for the people who want insane difficulty.

    You have monopolized the dev cycle whether you like it or not.

    ? Have u even TRIED doing a normal raid? U can grab a random group of CP 200+ players and smash thru nAA or nSO. Ofcourse u just need semi-decent players and DPS that can pull at least 15k. But that isnt whats considered insane difficulty... And u get all loot short of gold accessories in normal mode.... So where exactly is the monopoly?

    That wasn't the case until extremely recently.

    Nice. Try. By the way. Try adressing the new points I edited in. I'd love to see how you explain a veteran dungeon having vet raid mechanics equivilent to the hardest raid in the game.

    Try putting your points into;

    I dont want more difficulty layers because;

    #1 Reason one
    #2 Reason two

    etc.

    Im having serious trouble trying to get what it is you are trying to say. Apologies if my reading comprehension is bad but please humor me. Tell me exactly why it is like u feel u are missing out on content and why harder difficulties affect your gameplay because normal mode has the same story and 99% same loot.

    I'll do it if you tell me in what reasonable universe a dungeon boss has raid mechanics.

    Theyre not comparable though.
    When vMoL was released, it took a while even for top guilds to beat it.
    When SoTh was released, I went in one of the dungeons and finished it at the first evening.

    They are compareable though.

    Yes, people beat shadows of the hist dungeons when they first released. So? Some people have not even beaten the hardmode yet, and Velindreth -still- uses mechanics that have been used in raids.

    In what universe is this acceptable? Why do dungeons need to be as hard as raids? Hardcore pandering and monopolizing the dev cycle.

    Months of effort are comparable to a couple of hours of yolo gameplay? I strongly disagree.
    Then again, there's a normal mdoe for those people. If you think youre too cool for normal modes, its not game's problem. The game even provides you the same loot for both versions.

    The games problem is the design is similar to raids. Everything is raids. Maelstrom is a 1 player raid. Velindreth is a raidboss. EVERYTHING IS RAIDS.

    Wake up, quit trying to make this game into 24/7 raids.


    Wth are you even talking about? last time I logged in, the game consisted mostly of solo questing. Not sure if something changed since yesterday.

    I've stated what I'm on about.

    Buff reading comprehension.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Destruent
    Destruent
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Destruent wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).

    It's not irrational. It's very rational, considering now we have most of the dev cycle under Wrobel and this year geared toward difficult content. This game is not like other games, nobody cares about the gear. The gear will only be a real factor next update with all the sets. What we want, is content we can do without dedicating two hours to it. Without running the latest greatest meta build.

    You are making that impossible. And you will kill this game by hedging out whoever dislikes what is being developed, by sheer virtue of "There's more content for me, than for you."

    You want this game, you'll have to take it from my cold dead hands.

    Like the older dungeons have a different story for normal and vet. What we are proposing is add one more difficulty to it with the same story (aka content) as the vet one. So you are effectively missing 0% of the game. Just slap 40% more HP to boss and maybe 25% more damage to stuff. Add shot at gold jewellery. Same story. Same dialogue. Same dungeon.

    So doing a vet version or a hm vet version with the same story but with mobs hitting harder and more hp is taking away content that you want to do?? Explain pls. What exactly would I be prying out of your cold dead hands. Or did u even read what I wrote.

    Before, I was in favor of this. Then I slept on it for a few days.

    You realize this isn't gonna end, right? You realize this constant asking for new difficulty modes will never end with this? It''ll keep going, and going. It does not matter what you propose -now-, once you get traction with this we'll get the second wave come out of the woodwork demanding the entire game be changed to suit the difficulty crowd.

    Domino's, M'boy. You have allready monopolized the dev cycle. It wont be that hard to persuade them to focus exclusively on an audience that will seem bigger than it actually is.

    Edit: You*
    How have "we" monopolized the dev cycle? Stop being delusional. Nobody WANTS to make things too difficult. I want to take a small piece of content that many people enjoy and make it more challenging for those who are interested. It wouldn't take anything away from casuals. I don't see what the big deal is.
    pretzl wrote: »
    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.

    'Better'... Right. It's delusional to think increasing stats makes you somehow more 'skilled'. And that stuff I'm on, it's called logic. Try some. Then maybe you wouldn't be trying to *** up this game for personal self worth.

    Come back and complain after you beat everything with no cp and no armor. The entire progression system is a very long difficulty slider, and it goes from challenging to easy mode. You can start by playing with different skills, and dedicate your style to a specific niche instead of using every flavor of the month exploit you can find and then complaining that it's too easy.

    Also, the whole 'casuals' attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. Might as well be calling them noobs or scrubs. Is this game the highlight of your life? Kinda pathetic. Enjoy the one place you feel entitled to talk down to people through the cover of anonymity.

    The whole "elitist" attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. You think it's completely fine to call people elitist ***, but as soon as the "casual" word is thrown around alittle you get sand in your ***? That's certainly not logic you're on.
    Why should I remove my armor? It's a part of the game. Removing it only creates artificial difficulty
    How about instead of me removing ***, you take the time to grind some CPs and follow a meta build. I bet it'd be too much to handle for your little casual mindset.

    Every raid and dungeon released past Craglorn has been for the people who want insane difficulty.

    You have monopolized the dev cycle whether you like it or not.

    ? Have u even TRIED doing a normal raid? U can grab a random group of CP 200+ players and smash thru nAA or nSO. Ofcourse u just need semi-decent players and DPS that can pull at least 15k. But that isnt whats considered insane difficulty... And u get all loot short of gold accessories in normal mode.... So where exactly is the monopoly?

    That wasn't the case until extremely recently.

    Nice. Try. By the way. Try adressing the new points I edited in. I'd love to see how you explain a veteran dungeon having vet raid mechanics equivilent to the hardest raid in the game.

    Try putting your points into;

    I dont want more difficulty layers because;

    #1 Reason one
    #2 Reason two

    etc.

    Im having serious trouble trying to get what it is you are trying to say. Apologies if my reading comprehension is bad but please humor me. Tell me exactly why it is like u feel u are missing out on content and why harder difficulties affect your gameplay because normal mode has the same story and 99% same loot.

    I'll do it if you tell me in what reasonable universe a dungeon boss has raid mechanics.

    Theyre not comparable though.
    When vMoL was released, it took a while even for top guilds to beat it.
    When SoTh was released, I went in one of the dungeons and finished it at the first evening.

    They are compareable though.

    Yes, people beat shadows of the hist dungeons when they first released. So? Some people have not even beaten the hardmode yet, and Velindreth -still- uses mechanics that have been used in raids.

    In what universe is this acceptable? Why do dungeons need to be as hard as raids? Hardcore pandering and monopolizing the dev cycle.

    Cmon...dungeons which were beaten on PTS within some hours are not comparable to a raid, which took months to finish for the best guilds.

    C'mon...admit you want everyone who does not enjoy difficulty to die.

    No, i want everyone to enjoy their content and not complain about the content which clearly isn't designed for them. There are some who enjoy it. You have an easy-mode available for everyone for the story and the sets and whatever. Do it, that's for you. The vet-mode provides a challenge for those who like this.
    There are 2 dungeons in this whole game where have to follow mechanics to succeed, don't take them away...pls.
    Noobplar
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    ✭✭✭
    DHale wrote: »
    We don't need a game for one percent of the player base. Take two hundred cp away from your 531 in your signature line and run the dungeon with 331 cp. that might be the challange you are looking for. I am there for a helm or shoulders in a specific trait and a specific weight. I derive no pleasure from spending two plus hours in a dungeon. Getting good a dungeons to me would be like getting good at the chores my wife makes me do.

    I had smooth runs in VICP and VWGT with ~CP250 DDs and healer, and wipe-a-thons with CP500 because of not knowing the mechanics, and not even bothering to understand, or at least take a hint for someone walking a necrotic hoarvor. And I've met a ~CP350 Flawless Conqueror. IMO 300 CP is more than enough for all solo, 4 man veteran dungeons, including DLC ones, as well as normal 12 man trials. Vet trials are currently the only content that requires that most of the team to be max CP. But even CP561 is not enough for people with serious L2P issues :)
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1
    EU PC CP 1000+
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade
    The Alchemist's Emporium
    Handelsgilde
    The Tipsy Trader
    Divine Deals


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 34 | Master Crafter: all traits, styles & recipes
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 18 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 18 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 18 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 18 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 18 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 18 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 15 |

    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 4 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 4 |
    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 3 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 3 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 3 |
    Milariel | 50 Wolld Elf Warden | AD AR 3 |
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).

    It's not irrational. It's very rational, considering now we have most of the dev cycle under Wrobel and this year geared toward difficult content. This game is not like other games, nobody cares about the gear. The gear will only be a real factor next update with all the sets. What we want, is content we can do without dedicating two hours to it. Without running the latest greatest meta build.

    You are making that impossible. And you will kill this game by hedging out whoever dislikes what is being developed, by sheer virtue of "There's more content for me, than for you."

    You want this game, you'll have to take it from my cold dead hands.

    Like the older dungeons have a different story for normal and vet. What we are proposing is add one more difficulty to it with the same story (aka content) as the vet one. So you are effectively missing 0% of the game. Just slap 40% more HP to boss and maybe 25% more damage to stuff. Add shot at gold jewellery. Same story. Same dialogue. Same dungeon.

    So doing a vet version or a hm vet version with the same story but with mobs hitting harder and more hp is taking away content that you want to do?? Explain pls. What exactly would I be prying out of your cold dead hands. Or did u even read what I wrote.

    Before, I was in favor of this. Then I slept on it for a few days.

    You realize this isn't gonna end, right? You realize this constant asking for new difficulty modes will never end with this? It''ll keep going, and going. It does not matter what you propose -now-, once you get traction with this we'll get the second wave come out of the woodwork demanding the entire game be changed to suit the difficulty crowd.

    Domino's, M'boy. You have allready monopolized the dev cycle. It wont be that hard to persuade them to focus exclusively on an audience that will seem bigger than it actually is.

    Edit: You*
    How have "we" monopolized the dev cycle? Stop being delusional. Nobody WANTS to make things too difficult. I want to take a small piece of content that many people enjoy and make it more challenging for those who are interested. It wouldn't take anything away from casuals. I don't see what the big deal is.
    pretzl wrote: »
    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.

    'Better'... Right. It's delusional to think increasing stats makes you somehow more 'skilled'. And that stuff I'm on, it's called logic. Try some. Then maybe you wouldn't be trying to *** up this game for personal self worth.

    Come back and complain after you beat everything with no cp and no armor. The entire progression system is a very long difficulty slider, and it goes from challenging to easy mode. You can start by playing with different skills, and dedicate your style to a specific niche instead of using every flavor of the month exploit you can find and then complaining that it's too easy.

    Also, the whole 'casuals' attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. Might as well be calling them noobs or scrubs. Is this game the highlight of your life? Kinda pathetic. Enjoy the one place you feel entitled to talk down to people through the cover of anonymity.

    The whole "elitist" attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. You think it's completely fine to call people elitist ***, but as soon as the "casual" word is thrown around alittle you get sand in your ***? That's certainly not logic you're on.
    Why should I remove my armor? It's a part of the game. Removing it only creates artificial difficulty
    How about instead of me removing ***, you take the time to grind some CPs and follow a meta build. I bet it'd be too much to handle for your little casual mindset.

    Every raid and dungeon released past Craglorn has been for the people who want insane difficulty.

    You have monopolized the dev cycle whether you like it or not.

    ? Have u even TRIED doing a normal raid? U can grab a random group of CP 200+ players and smash thru nAA or nSO. Ofcourse u just need semi-decent players and DPS that can pull at least 15k. But that isnt whats considered insane difficulty... And u get all loot short of gold accessories in normal mode.... So where exactly is the monopoly?

    That wasn't the case until extremely recently.

    Nice. Try. By the way. Try adressing the new points I edited in. I'd love to see how you explain a veteran dungeon having vet raid mechanics equivilent to the hardest raid in the game.

    Try putting your points into;

    I dont want more difficulty layers because;

    #1 Reason one
    #2 Reason two

    etc.

    Im having serious trouble trying to get what it is you are trying to say. Apologies if my reading comprehension is bad but please humor me. Tell me exactly why it is like u feel u are missing out on content and why harder difficulties affect your gameplay because normal mode has the same story and 99% same loot.

    I'll do it if you tell me in what reasonable universe a dungeon boss has raid mechanics.

    Theyre not comparable though.
    When vMoL was released, it took a while even for top guilds to beat it.
    When SoTh was released, I went in one of the dungeons and finished it at the first evening.

    They are compareable though.

    Yes, people beat shadows of the hist dungeons when they first released. So? Some people have not even beaten the hardmode yet, and Velindreth -still- uses mechanics that have been used in raids.

    In what universe is this acceptable? Why do dungeons need to be as hard as raids? Hardcore pandering and monopolizing the dev cycle.

    Months of effort are comparable to a couple of hours of yolo gameplay? I strongly disagree.
    Then again, there's a normal mdoe for those people. If you think youre too cool for normal modes, its not game's problem. The game even provides you the same loot for both versions.

    The games problem is the design is similar to raids. Everything is raids. Maelstrom is a 1 player raid. Velindreth is a raidboss. EVERYTHING IS RAIDS.

    Wake up, quit trying to make this game into 24/7 raids.


    Wth are you even talking about? last time I logged in, the game consisted mostly of solo questing. Not sure if something changed since yesterday.

    I've stated what I'm on about.

    Buff reading comprehension.

    Youre clearly playing some different game.
    This game is as casual as it can get, with 0,1% of somewhat challenging content. And all of those content pieces have a lower difficulty option for casual players.
    Its crazy to claim that ZOS doesnt care about casual crowd.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Vangy
    Vangy
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vangy wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Shadow of the hist dungeons need nerfed.

    People dont do those or ICP now. Difficulty isn't what people want, their just too scared of being yelled at by the difficulty enthusiasts to say it out loud.

    What will the difficult dungeons do? What will a third difficulty tier do, for the playerbase? I'd be fine with the dudes who loooove shadow of the hist to get a third difficulty where things drop only in gold so they can flood the market and make lots of money, that's fair enough, but quit trying to suffocate the game by making it ultrahard and driving away all but the hardcore audience. If anything, a third difficulty tier needs to be made so that the devs can focus on trying to make -interesting- dungeons instead of trying to pander to a small part of the playerbase.

    People have told me if we make it all easy it'll kill the game. That's not what I've seen. I've seen parts of the game that are just barren, be the hardest parts. Hopefully, when the new questgiver goes live in four days the devs will get an accurate read on what the playerbase actually wants, and tune things accordingly. There just needs to be a -three- tier difficulty system so we can finally get it out of the way.

    Those "difficult dungeons" all have normal modes that are specifically made for casual players.
    If we're talking about SoTH dungeons, normal modes even drop helmets (+all gear sets of course). Keys for dailies will be equalized in 1T update, so youll get the rewards anyway (just one key instead of 2, but thats fair).
    So whats the issue?

    The issue was that the choice was either "Do the dungeons when pledges come up or take the day off". Most people took the day off.

    Now that their geting their own quest giver in like two days, this wont be an issue anymore, as the content will need to be able to stand on it's own interest wise or get nerfed into the ground to get people playing it.

    But that's not the games fault. People could just have done the pledge on normal for a silver key, store it for next patch and get exactly the same reward. You just cannot blame the game for this...

    I can. And I will.

    If it wasn't the games fault, why are they -fixing- it?

    Lol...so ZOS offers the same reward for a much lower difficulty, people refuse to use this option and you blame the game for people not doing the pledge? wtf? If they want a key they can do it on normal, if they don't do it they just shouldn't complain about the pledge. It's their choice to not get the key.

    Their purposefully taking the quests off the main questgivers and making their own questgiver.

    It has become such a problem, they must give it their own questgiver. WAKE. UP.

    Yeah because people REFUSE To accept doing it on normal for the SILVER key. YOU WAKE UP lol.

    Why should we? Why should we, for something that shouldn't even be in the same leauge as a raid? You've still not justified that btw.

    Same league as a raid? LOL..... I shall stop arguing this now.
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).

    It's not irrational. It's very rational, considering now we have most of the dev cycle under Wrobel and this year geared toward difficult content. This game is not like other games, nobody cares about the gear. The gear will only be a real factor next update with all the sets. What we want, is content we can do without dedicating two hours to it. Without running the latest greatest meta build.

    You are making that impossible. And you will kill this game by hedging out whoever dislikes what is being developed, by sheer virtue of "There's more content for me, than for you."

    You want this game, you'll have to take it from my cold dead hands.

    Like the older dungeons have a different story for normal and vet. What we are proposing is add one more difficulty to it with the same story (aka content) as the vet one. So you are effectively missing 0% of the game. Just slap 40% more HP to boss and maybe 25% more damage to stuff. Add shot at gold jewellery. Same story. Same dialogue. Same dungeon.

    So doing a vet version or a hm vet version with the same story but with mobs hitting harder and more hp is taking away content that you want to do?? Explain pls. What exactly would I be prying out of your cold dead hands. Or did u even read what I wrote.

    Before, I was in favor of this. Then I slept on it for a few days.

    You realize this isn't gonna end, right? You realize this constant asking for new difficulty modes will never end with this? It''ll keep going, and going. It does not matter what you propose -now-, once you get traction with this we'll get the second wave come out of the woodwork demanding the entire game be changed to suit the difficulty crowd.

    Domino's, M'boy. You have allready monopolized the dev cycle. It wont be that hard to persuade them to focus exclusively on an audience that will seem bigger than it actually is.

    Edit: You*
    How have "we" monopolized the dev cycle? Stop being delusional. Nobody WANTS to make things too difficult. I want to take a small piece of content that many people enjoy and make it more challenging for those who are interested. It wouldn't take anything away from casuals. I don't see what the big deal is.
    pretzl wrote: »
    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.

    'Better'... Right. It's delusional to think increasing stats makes you somehow more 'skilled'. And that stuff I'm on, it's called logic. Try some. Then maybe you wouldn't be trying to *** up this game for personal self worth.

    Come back and complain after you beat everything with no cp and no armor. The entire progression system is a very long difficulty slider, and it goes from challenging to easy mode. You can start by playing with different skills, and dedicate your style to a specific niche instead of using every flavor of the month exploit you can find and then complaining that it's too easy.

    Also, the whole 'casuals' attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. Might as well be calling them noobs or scrubs. Is this game the highlight of your life? Kinda pathetic. Enjoy the one place you feel entitled to talk down to people through the cover of anonymity.

    The whole "elitist" attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. You think it's completely fine to call people elitist ***, but as soon as the "casual" word is thrown around alittle you get sand in your ***? That's certainly not logic you're on.
    Why should I remove my armor? It's a part of the game. Removing it only creates artificial difficulty
    How about instead of me removing ***, you take the time to grind some CPs and follow a meta build. I bet it'd be too much to handle for your little casual mindset.

    Every raid and dungeon released past Craglorn has been for the people who want insane difficulty.

    You have monopolized the dev cycle whether you like it or not.

    ? Have u even TRIED doing a normal raid? U can grab a random group of CP 200+ players and smash thru nAA or nSO. Ofcourse u just need semi-decent players and DPS that can pull at least 15k. But that isnt whats considered insane difficulty... And u get all loot short of gold accessories in normal mode.... So where exactly is the monopoly?

    That wasn't the case until extremely recently.

    Nice. Try. By the way. Try adressing the new points I edited in. I'd love to see how you explain a veteran dungeon having vet raid mechanics equivilent to the hardest raid in the game.

    Try putting your points into;

    I dont want more difficulty layers because;

    #1 Reason one
    #2 Reason two

    etc.

    Im having serious trouble trying to get what it is you are trying to say. Apologies if my reading comprehension is bad but please humor me. Tell me exactly why it is like u feel u are missing out on content and why harder difficulties affect your gameplay because normal mode has the same story and 99% same loot.

    I'll do it if you tell me in what reasonable universe a dungeon boss has raid mechanics.

    Theyre not comparable though.
    When vMoL was released, it took a while even for top guilds to beat it.
    When SoTh was released, I went in one of the dungeons and finished it at the first evening.

    They are compareable though.

    Yes, people beat shadows of the hist dungeons when they first released. So? Some people have not even beaten the hardmode yet, and Velindreth -still- uses mechanics that have been used in raids.

    In what universe is this acceptable? Why do dungeons need to be as hard as raids? Hardcore pandering and monopolizing the dev cycle.

    Cmon...dungeons which were beaten on PTS within some hours are not comparable to a raid, which took months to finish for the best guilds.

    C'mon...admit you want everyone who does not enjoy difficulty to die.

    No, i want everyone to enjoy their content and not complain about the content which clearly isn't designed for them. There are some who enjoy it. You have an easy-mode available for everyone for the story and the sets and whatever. Do it, that's for you. The vet-mode provides a challenge for those who like this.
    There are 2 dungeons in this whole game where have to follow mechanics to succeed, don't take them away...pls.

    Those are four man raids.

    They need to be nerfed to -dungeons-.

    I would take a hatchet to them in a second if I could and I have no doubt that once there is no obligation to -do- them, given they will be off pledge rotation, they will be nerfed.

    I will not suffer for your happyness.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 4, 2016 9:38AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Shadow of the hist dungeons need nerfed.

    People dont do those or ICP now. Difficulty isn't what people want, their just too scared of being yelled at by the difficulty enthusiasts to say it out loud.

    What will the difficult dungeons do? What will a third difficulty tier do, for the playerbase? I'd be fine with the dudes who loooove shadow of the hist to get a third difficulty where things drop only in gold so they can flood the market and make lots of money, that's fair enough, but quit trying to suffocate the game by making it ultrahard and driving away all but the hardcore audience. If anything, a third difficulty tier needs to be made so that the devs can focus on trying to make -interesting- dungeons instead of trying to pander to a small part of the playerbase.

    People have told me if we make it all easy it'll kill the game. That's not what I've seen. I've seen parts of the game that are just barren, be the hardest parts. Hopefully, when the new questgiver goes live in four days the devs will get an accurate read on what the playerbase actually wants, and tune things accordingly. There just needs to be a -three- tier difficulty system so we can finally get it out of the way.

    Those "difficult dungeons" all have normal modes that are specifically made for casual players.
    If we're talking about SoTH dungeons, normal modes even drop helmets (+all gear sets of course). Keys for dailies will be equalized in 1T update, so youll get the rewards anyway (just one key instead of 2, but thats fair).
    So whats the issue?

    The issue was that the choice was either "Do the dungeons when pledges come up or take the day off". Most people took the day off.

    Now that their geting their own quest giver in like two days, this wont be an issue anymore, as the content will need to be able to stand on it's own interest wise or get nerfed into the ground to get people playing it.

    But that's not the games fault. People could just have done the pledge on normal for a silver key, store it for next patch and get exactly the same reward. You just cannot blame the game for this...

    I can. And I will.

    If it wasn't the games fault, why are they -fixing- it?

    Lol...so ZOS offers the same reward for a much lower difficulty, people refuse to use this option and you blame the game for people not doing the pledge? wtf? If they want a key they can do it on normal, if they don't do it they just shouldn't complain about the pledge. It's their choice to not get the key.

    Their purposefully taking the quests off the main questgivers and making their own questgiver.

    It has become such a problem, they must give it their own questgiver. WAKE. UP.

    Yeah because people REFUSE To accept doing it on normal for the SILVER key. YOU WAKE UP lol.

    Why should we? Why should we, for something that shouldn't even be in the same leauge as a raid? You've still not justified that btw.

    Same league as a raid? LOL..... I shall stop arguing this now.

    Add a armorbreak to Manticora.

    Add resource drain to Manticora.

    Add ulti drain to Manticora.

    Congratulations. Velindreth and Manti are now the same boss. Velindreth is a amalgum of various trial and dungeon boss mechanics, hastily mashed together because the hardcore crowd wanted difficult dungeons.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Destruent
    Destruent
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    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.
    Noobplar
  • Vangy
    Vangy
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    Vangy wrote: »
    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).

    It's not irrational. It's very rational, considering now we have most of the dev cycle under Wrobel and this year geared toward difficult content. This game is not like other games, nobody cares about the gear. The gear will only be a real factor next update with all the sets. What we want, is content we can do without dedicating two hours to it. Without running the latest greatest meta build.

    You are making that impossible. And you will kill this game by hedging out whoever dislikes what is being developed, by sheer virtue of "There's more content for me, than for you."

    You want this game, you'll have to take it from my cold dead hands.

    Like the older dungeons have a different story for normal and vet. What we are proposing is add one more difficulty to it with the same story (aka content) as the vet one. So you are effectively missing 0% of the game. Just slap 40% more HP to boss and maybe 25% more damage to stuff. Add shot at gold jewellery. Same story. Same dialogue. Same dungeon.

    So doing a vet version or a hm vet version with the same story but with mobs hitting harder and more hp is taking away content that you want to do?? Explain pls. What exactly would I be prying out of your cold dead hands. Or did u even read what I wrote.

    Before, I was in favor of this. Then I slept on it for a few days.

    You realize this isn't gonna end, right? You realize this constant asking for new difficulty modes will never end with this? It''ll keep going, and going. It does not matter what you propose -now-, once you get traction with this we'll get the second wave come out of the woodwork demanding the entire game be changed to suit the difficulty crowd.

    Domino's, M'boy. You have allready monopolized the dev cycle. It wont be that hard to persuade them to focus exclusively on an audience that will seem bigger than it actually is.

    Edit: You*
    How have "we" monopolized the dev cycle? Stop being delusional. Nobody WANTS to make things too difficult. I want to take a small piece of content that many people enjoy and make it more challenging for those who are interested. It wouldn't take anything away from casuals. I don't see what the big deal is.
    pretzl wrote: »
    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.

    'Better'... Right. It's delusional to think increasing stats makes you somehow more 'skilled'. And that stuff I'm on, it's called logic. Try some. Then maybe you wouldn't be trying to *** up this game for personal self worth.

    Come back and complain after you beat everything with no cp and no armor. The entire progression system is a very long difficulty slider, and it goes from challenging to easy mode. You can start by playing with different skills, and dedicate your style to a specific niche instead of using every flavor of the month exploit you can find and then complaining that it's too easy.

    Also, the whole 'casuals' attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. Might as well be calling them noobs or scrubs. Is this game the highlight of your life? Kinda pathetic. Enjoy the one place you feel entitled to talk down to people through the cover of anonymity.

    The whole "elitist" attitude being thrown around is just a huge circle jerk. You think it's completely fine to call people elitist ***, but as soon as the "casual" word is thrown around alittle you get sand in your ***? That's certainly not logic you're on.
    Why should I remove my armor? It's a part of the game. Removing it only creates artificial difficulty
    How about instead of me removing ***, you take the time to grind some CPs and follow a meta build. I bet it'd be too much to handle for your little casual mindset.

    Every raid and dungeon released past Craglorn has been for the people who want insane difficulty.

    You have monopolized the dev cycle whether you like it or not.

    ? Have u even TRIED doing a normal raid? U can grab a random group of CP 200+ players and smash thru nAA or nSO. Ofcourse u just need semi-decent players and DPS that can pull at least 15k. But that isnt whats considered insane difficulty... And u get all loot short of gold accessories in normal mode.... So where exactly is the monopoly?

    That wasn't the case until extremely recently.

    Nice. Try. By the way. Try adressing the new points I edited in. I'd love to see how you explain a veteran dungeon having vet raid mechanics equivilent to the hardest raid in the game.

    Try putting your points into;

    I dont want more difficulty layers because;

    #1 Reason one
    #2 Reason two

    etc.

    Im having serious trouble trying to get what it is you are trying to say. Apologies if my reading comprehension is bad but please humor me. Tell me exactly why it is like u feel u are missing out on content and why harder difficulties affect your gameplay because normal mode has the same story and 99% same loot.

    I'll do it if you tell me in what reasonable universe a dungeon boss has raid mechanics.

    Theyre not comparable though.
    When vMoL was released, it took a while even for top guilds to beat it.
    When SoTh was released, I went in one of the dungeons and finished it at the first evening.

    They are compareable though.

    Yes, people beat shadows of the hist dungeons when they first released. So? Some people have not even beaten the hardmode yet, and Velindreth -still- uses mechanics that have been used in raids.

    In what universe is this acceptable? Why do dungeons need to be as hard as raids? Hardcore pandering and monopolizing the dev cycle.

    Cmon...dungeons which were beaten on PTS within some hours are not comparable to a raid, which took months to finish for the best guilds.

    C'mon...admit you want everyone who does not enjoy difficulty to die.

    No, i want everyone to enjoy their content and not complain about the content which clearly isn't designed for them. There are some who enjoy it. You have an easy-mode available for everyone for the story and the sets and whatever. Do it, that's for you. The vet-mode provides a challenge for those who like this.
    There are 2 dungeons in this whole game where have to follow mechanics to succeed, don't take them away...pls.

    Those are four man raids.

    They need to be nerfed to -dungeons-.

    I would take a hatchet to them in a second if I could and I have no doubt that once there is no obligation to -do- them, given they will be off pledge rotation, they will be nerfed.

    I will not suffer for your happyness.

    Sure everything in an mmo will eventually get nerfed. When that content becomes obsolete. Just like the IC dungeons and vCOA. Dont hold ur breath tho. Might need to wait for 6 months when velidreth helm becomes a staple in every1s diet (if it hasnt already lol).
    Edited by Vangy on October 4, 2016 9:41AM
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. A dungeon, a four man dungeon, should not even be in the same league.

    But I'm tired of arguing with imperialists who want everyone who has differing tastes in content to leave the game. Have a nice day.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 4, 2016 9:43AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    Hahahaha XD
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Destruent
    Destruent
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    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:
    Edited by Destruent on October 4, 2016 9:42AM
    Noobplar
  • Vangy
    Vangy
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    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    =X

    Take my awesome and have some of mah babies~
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • ragespell
    ragespell
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    pretzl wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    I was hoping this 4-tier system would make dungeons atleast alittle harder for the end-game (or close) community, but they're still soloable/duoable with a sub-par setup...
    It's fairly easy to duo any II dungeon on veteran with Hard Mode for all achievments. Are there any plans to actually increase the difficulty considering we now have 4 possible tiers to do them on @ZOS_Finn ?

    The reasoning for not increasing the difficulty since the birth of this game has always been to provide the more leant-back casual portion of the userbase with content they can complete aswell, but do they really need 4 possible tiers of difficulty? I'd think atleast one of them should enforce the use of higher-tier setups and promote skill, no?

    And before people inevitably start QQing about elitism and/or making things too hard etc. you'd still have 3 other difficulties to get your keys on. Dungeons wouldn't even need to be that much harder, just difficult enough to make it mandatory to have all roles in the trinity present whilst still keeping it inside a somewhat casual nature. People shouldn't be able to solo their way to 2 keys in a single run...

    We should not want it to be as difficult as trials..

    Therr should be a difference..

    That's not at all what I'm asking for. I completely understand the separation between dungeons and trials. Trials are for the end-game userbase, not casuals. Dungeons are for casuals. What I'm asking for is, given there really are 4 tiers of difficulty (2 and 2 separated by different quests) for most dungeons, why isn't one of those tiers just alittle harder so as to reward the end-game community just alittle more? I understand why some people are voicing angry opinions, but christ, no need for insults...
    Why should ZOS reward 1% of their userbase? Because we're the ones who play every single day. We're the ones who spend a *** of money in the crown store because we love the game. Because we're ultimately the ones who go on PTS to test things, make sure things are alright. Why shouldn't we be rewarded?

    I just can't wrap my head around how some people think it's okay that you can solo your way to 2 gold keys in a single dungeon. How you can effectively and relatively easily solo your way to upto 4 keys every day in 1T.

    Such a difficulty spike would possibly mean a rework of most bossfights, but in all honesty a bigger spike in health would actually force you to pay attention to mechanics.
    I did vet Vaults of Madness last night with a friend of mine. I had never seen a single mechanic in there before because honestly you could just stack and whack through them. I've never had so much fun before, because I was actually learning something about these dungeons. Granted, that fun quickly goes away after a run or two, but I still shouldn't be able to stack and whack through mechanics such as Bogdan's adds or Praxin's adds (yes, you can still do that). I've even gone back and done the exact same things with 300 CP and purple gear...

    This isn't a bragpost. Simply a post aiming to bring light to some of the glaring issues in all but DLC dungeons. People won't agree, people won't like that I'm part of that 1% of the userbase. It's as simple as that.

    Honestly, most of the time casuals are worse towards "elitists" than "elitists" are to them. It's a disgrace.

    Actually, people who plays all day, are not the one who pays the bill, because are simply unemployed. And in most cases: unemployed equals no money.

    Are the casuals that works and have a disposable income to keep the servers up for you elitist
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Youre just assuming some crazy things.
    And accusing all people with those skins in cheating is just rude.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Destruent
    Destruent
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Sry but, face it...that's nonsense...
    Don't call people cheaters if you can't prove it. There are many people who did it on maxlevel and without cheating. And you know why they could do it? Bc they learned how to play the game and dungeon instead of endless QQ on the forums.
    Noobplar
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Youre just assuming some crazy things.
    And accusing all people with those skins in cheating is just rude.

    I personally know people who have the skin.

    They cheated for it, and I would be willing to reasonibly assume that maybe 1% of the current people WITH the skin got it legit.

    Try again.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Vangy
    Vangy
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    ragespell wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    I was hoping this 4-tier system would make dungeons atleast alittle harder for the end-game (or close) community, but they're still soloable/duoable with a sub-par setup...
    It's fairly easy to duo any II dungeon on veteran with Hard Mode for all achievments. Are there any plans to actually increase the difficulty considering we now have 4 possible tiers to do them on @ZOS_Finn ?

    The reasoning for not increasing the difficulty since the birth of this game has always been to provide the more leant-back casual portion of the userbase with content they can complete aswell, but do they really need 4 possible tiers of difficulty? I'd think atleast one of them should enforce the use of higher-tier setups and promote skill, no?

    And before people inevitably start QQing about elitism and/or making things too hard etc. you'd still have 3 other difficulties to get your keys on. Dungeons wouldn't even need to be that much harder, just difficult enough to make it mandatory to have all roles in the trinity present whilst still keeping it inside a somewhat casual nature. People shouldn't be able to solo their way to 2 keys in a single run...

    We should not want it to be as difficult as trials..

    Therr should be a difference..

    That's not at all what I'm asking for. I completely understand the separation between dungeons and trials. Trials are for the end-game userbase, not casuals. Dungeons are for casuals. What I'm asking for is, given there really are 4 tiers of difficulty (2 and 2 separated by different quests) for most dungeons, why isn't one of those tiers just alittle harder so as to reward the end-game community just alittle more? I understand why some people are voicing angry opinions, but christ, no need for insults...
    Why should ZOS reward 1% of their userbase? Because we're the ones who play every single day. We're the ones who spend a *** of money in the crown store because we love the game. Because we're ultimately the ones who go on PTS to test things, make sure things are alright. Why shouldn't we be rewarded?

    I just can't wrap my head around how some people think it's okay that you can solo your way to 2 gold keys in a single dungeon. How you can effectively and relatively easily solo your way to upto 4 keys every day in 1T.

    Such a difficulty spike would possibly mean a rework of most bossfights, but in all honesty a bigger spike in health would actually force you to pay attention to mechanics.
    I did vet Vaults of Madness last night with a friend of mine. I had never seen a single mechanic in there before because honestly you could just stack and whack through them. I've never had so much fun before, because I was actually learning something about these dungeons. Granted, that fun quickly goes away after a run or two, but I still shouldn't be able to stack and whack through mechanics such as Bogdan's adds or Praxin's adds (yes, you can still do that). I've even gone back and done the exact same things with 300 CP and purple gear...

    This isn't a bragpost. Simply a post aiming to bring light to some of the glaring issues in all but DLC dungeons. People won't agree, people won't like that I'm part of that 1% of the userbase. It's as simple as that.

    Honestly, most of the time casuals are worse towards "elitists" than "elitists" are to them. It's a disgrace.

    Actually, people who plays all day, are not the one who pays the bill, because are simply unemployed. And in most cases: unemployed equals no money.

    Are the casuals that works and have a disposable income to keep the servers up for you elitist

    Sorry to burst ur bubble bud. Im an engineer and I play all day long on Saturday and ive completed all content ranging from vMA and vDSA and vMOL. So no. You arent paying any of my ESO bills. Being good at the game dosent equate to living in ur moms basement playing ESO all day everyday. Get outta here with that stereotype nonsense.
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Sry but, face it...that's nonsense...
    Don't call people cheaters if you can't prove it. There are many people who did it on maxlevel and without cheating. And you know why they could do it? Bc they learned how to play the game and dungeon instead of endless QQ on the forums.

    Take a poll of them.

    Get an exact number of them.

    Then tell me whether or not that specific number of people is worth making content for.

    I know three people on the server I play on who have the skin, and their word on who they ran with -for- those skins. And I see people who's names they gave me, more than I see strangers. There is my sample audience.

    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 4, 2016 9:51AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    ragespell wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    I was hoping this 4-tier system would make dungeons atleast alittle harder for the end-game (or close) community, but they're still soloable/duoable with a sub-par setup...
    It's fairly easy to duo any II dungeon on veteran with Hard Mode for all achievments. Are there any plans to actually increase the difficulty considering we now have 4 possible tiers to do them on @ZOS_Finn ?

    The reasoning for not increasing the difficulty since the birth of this game has always been to provide the more leant-back casual portion of the userbase with content they can complete aswell, but do they really need 4 possible tiers of difficulty? I'd think atleast one of them should enforce the use of higher-tier setups and promote skill, no?

    And before people inevitably start QQing about elitism and/or making things too hard etc. you'd still have 3 other difficulties to get your keys on. Dungeons wouldn't even need to be that much harder, just difficult enough to make it mandatory to have all roles in the trinity present whilst still keeping it inside a somewhat casual nature. People shouldn't be able to solo their way to 2 keys in a single run...

    We should not want it to be as difficult as trials..

    Therr should be a difference..

    That's not at all what I'm asking for. I completely understand the separation between dungeons and trials. Trials are for the end-game userbase, not casuals. Dungeons are for casuals. What I'm asking for is, given there really are 4 tiers of difficulty (2 and 2 separated by different quests) for most dungeons, why isn't one of those tiers just alittle harder so as to reward the end-game community just alittle more? I understand why some people are voicing angry opinions, but christ, no need for insults...
    Why should ZOS reward 1% of their userbase? Because we're the ones who play every single day. We're the ones who spend a *** of money in the crown store because we love the game. Because we're ultimately the ones who go on PTS to test things, make sure things are alright. Why shouldn't we be rewarded?

    I just can't wrap my head around how some people think it's okay that you can solo your way to 2 gold keys in a single dungeon. How you can effectively and relatively easily solo your way to upto 4 keys every day in 1T.

    Such a difficulty spike would possibly mean a rework of most bossfights, but in all honesty a bigger spike in health would actually force you to pay attention to mechanics.
    I did vet Vaults of Madness last night with a friend of mine. I had never seen a single mechanic in there before because honestly you could just stack and whack through them. I've never had so much fun before, because I was actually learning something about these dungeons. Granted, that fun quickly goes away after a run or two, but I still shouldn't be able to stack and whack through mechanics such as Bogdan's adds or Praxin's adds (yes, you can still do that). I've even gone back and done the exact same things with 300 CP and purple gear...

    This isn't a bragpost. Simply a post aiming to bring light to some of the glaring issues in all but DLC dungeons. People won't agree, people won't like that I'm part of that 1% of the userbase. It's as simple as that.

    Honestly, most of the time casuals are worse towards "elitists" than "elitists" are to them. It's a disgrace.

    Actually, people who plays all day, are not the one who pays the bill, because are simply unemployed. And in most cases: unemployed equals no money.

    Are the casuals that works and have a disposable income to keep the servers up for you elitist

    You dont have to play all day to like challenging content. Time played doesnt really correlate with player's preferences or skills.
    And assuming that someone who likes challenging content=nolifer is as rude as assuming that casual players are just imbeciles or something.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Vangy
    Vangy
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Youre just assuming some crazy things.
    And accusing all people with those skins in cheating is just rude.

    I personally know people who have the skin.


    They cheated for it, and I would be willing to reasonibly assume that maybe 1% of the current people WITH the skin got it legit.

    Try again.

    I think its time for you to "personally know" better people. Might even help u get better at the game. The people you "personally know" cheat dosent mean everyone else does.
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
  • Destruent
    Destruent
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Youre just assuming some crazy things.
    And accusing all people with those skins in cheating is just rude.

    I personally know people who have the skin.

    They cheated for it, and I would be willing to reasonibly assume that maybe 1% of the current people WITH the skin got it legit.

    Try again.

    I know more people who did it legit than who "cheated" it....and now?
    Noobplar
  • LadyNalcarya
    LadyNalcarya
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Youre just assuming some crazy things.
    And accusing all people with those skins in cheating is just rude.

    I personally know people who have the skin.

    They cheated for it, and I would be willing to reasonibly assume that maybe 1% of the current people WITH the skin got it legit.

    Try again.

    Sorry, but I have no interest in discussing your fantasies and assumptions.
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    Destruent wrote: »
    I think we should just admit, that vCoS/HM is about the same difficulty as vMoL/HM and nearly noone is able to beat it. Same with no-death and speedrun, they are near impossible to get.

    And this. Shouldn't. Be. The. Case. Hence why it needs nerfed into the ground or forgotten about.

    Lol...you really think that was meant seriously? :lol:

    Somewhat of an exaggeration, but not by very much.

    Face it. The people who have the skin daub and spiderkith skin cheated to get them. Face it. The people who did the hardmode did it once and never again. Face it. THE PEOPLE WHO WANTED DIFFICULTY, ARE NOT SATISFIED.

    So who's left to do it?

    Youre just assuming some crazy things.
    And accusing all people with those skins in cheating is just rude.

    I personally know people who have the skin.

    They cheated for it, and I would be willing to reasonibly assume that maybe 1% of the current people WITH the skin got it legit.

    Try again.

    I know more people who did it legit than who "cheated" it....and now?

    And now I got try to do something constructive today rather than talk to imperialists who want to rip the content from the filthy casuals.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    Nirnrotten wrote: »
    I literally just finished reading a recent Nerf Dungeon thread. Specifically SOTH and IC dungeons. Those dungeons are the ones I enjoy the most!

    So many polar opinions. Awesome.

    Yep, nerfing those will be really bad. The other ones already bore me to death. I barely feel I'm running a dungeon in the base game veteran ones. I don't even bother to buff my health and run with slightly under 20K as tank and still don't die. Had a very bad DD on yesterday's gold pledge, which was Elden Hollow, and the healer was lackluster. The first DD did just heavy/light attacks, some snipe and arrow barrage, no execute, no melee rotation whatsoever while the healer barely threw any shards or did any repentance despite having 2 stamina DDs and a stamina tank; The other DD was good though. It was slow, because the others were not interrupting the shades, and the DPS was sub par, but did it in the end. I had to throw 4 or 5 standards on Bogdan to kill him - with good groups I don't even use that ult because DPS is enough, but I only have time to blow the horn once or twice before he melts. And guess what: we finished the hard mode and got the gold key. Did another 2 dungeons, the silver pledge, which was Vollenfell, and another random, which turned to be Vaults of Madness. We lost the good DD between those 2 and found another from tool. I started to explain the proper rotation to the other one, and he started to improve but crashed as well. We had to do the end boss with incomplete group and still managed. I really loved the extra challenge of running a bad PUG with no buffs. That's about the only way I can get any pleasure out of running the old dungeons these days.

    One night I even had the arrogance of running VICP and VWGT without any buffs, albeit with an experienced guild group. And guess what - we finished without any wipes, and only died once at the Inhibitor to DoT because the two DDs were arguing on chat whose Red Mountain set procced more, instead of pulling the damned pin. So even those are doable. So clearly they don't need any nerf either. They were already slightly nerfed at some point, but the good thing about them is that they still have the unskippable kill mechanics in place (Ibomez flesh grenades, Abomination hoarvors, Lord Warden's explosion, various mechanics at Planar Inhibitor, Kena's atronachs and lightning waves/thump). SotH dungeons have even more complex kill mechanics, so even if they slightly tone down the mob and boss health and damage, they will still be challenging. The saddest example of a dungeon that was totally broken by power creep and brutal nerfing is VCoA, because it only had simple DPS checks - it really saddens me to see Firemaw drop in less than 15s or Skoria melt as soon as he hits the 2nd platform. I hope in this patch they revert to the way it was pre-DB, at least for the veteran mode because it will again require the DDs to have proper rotation, the healer to heal and the tank to tank. In general I would like new kill mechanics implemented in all dungeons that they did not have them before, for the veteran mode. Adding more health and damage to enemies is just plain lazy and will be eventually superseded by power creep as the CP cap is gradually increased, just as it happened to old dungeons, if they don't even nerf them back at some point due to excessive whining from some players. And even now, adding more health only means you need to burn them for a slightly longer time, following the same simple mechanics.
    Beta tester since February 2014, playing ESO-TU since October 2015
    vMA | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1
    EU PC CP 1000+
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade
    The Alchemist's Emporium
    Handelsgilde
    The Tipsy Trader
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    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 34 | Master Crafter: all traits, styles & recipes
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 18 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 18 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 18 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 18 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 18 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 18 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 15 |

    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 4 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 4 |
    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 3 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 3 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 3 |
    Milariel | 50 Wolld Elf Warden | AD AR 3 |
  • Cously
    Cously
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    I love the mechanics on SOH dungeons. They are clever and fun. Definately not something to do with a PUG though, only run them with friends in Teamspeak. Same with vICP, I still don't feel comfortable to PUG that one.

    The main problem I see here is ZOS not making it known the difficult of the dungeons to new players. For instance, unless you have no arms, no eyes, no brains, a team of players who just got the game can PUG and complete normal Spindlecrotch.

    On the other hand, the same team of new players can be put randomly in a ICP run as their first experience. I saw that happen several times. Even in normal, first time players struggle a lot and it's not everyday one is in the mood to explain all mechanics.

    Add to the fact that some players are extremely impatient and start to mistreat the new players. New players also don't communicate sometimes or they take as abusive a tip to improve their builds or do something to ensure the dungeon is ran smoothly.

    That generates so much toxicity. New players thinking old players are richards, or traumatized to run dungeons again. Old players thinking new players are morons who have no skill. Whilst I believe the majority of players would be kind to explain to a new person the dungeon, it is not uncommon to have a lot of new players complaining how they were kicked by vote or harassed by not knowing that a food buff is.

    Solution: ZOS must make it clear that you can't just bump a person to max level and throw them all in any dungeons and expect it to go smoothly. It must be clear to whoever is queuing or trying to do the content that you need more than a level bump to complete certain dungeons, and organize these dungeons in order.

    For instance, I am new player. I open group finder. I see a list of dungeon and their requirements: CP 160, gear score 5, healer and tank required, etc. Hey, I'm level 44, I will not queue for those, I will browse the list and queue for the ones shown to be beginner level, eventually when I reach CP 160 I will queue for the other ones.

    Whilst I know a soft version of that is in the game, as the Undaunted NPCs in each zone's tavern speaks about their zone dungeon and the other alliance dungeons on same difficult, I think that will be easily missed by new players. I believe that way you would not have to nerf certain dungeons and at the same time would build a more solid and friendly PVE base.

    TL;DR:

    Problem: Dungeons are all in a basket together and the real difficult is hard to be known by new players until it is too late.
    Solution: Make it easy for new players to see how difficult is organized by suggesting a minimum level, gear score and group composition.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Cously wrote: »
    I love the mechanics on SOH dungeons. They are clever and fun. Definately not something to do with a PUG though, only run them with friends in Teamspeak. Same with vICP, I still don't feel comfortable to PUG that one.

    The main problem I see here is ZOS not making it known the difficult of the dungeons to new players. For instance, unless you have no arms, no eyes, no brains, a team of players who just got the game can PUG and complete normal Spindlecrotch.

    On the other hand, the same team of new players can be put randomly in a ICP run as their first experience. I saw that happen several times. Even in normal, first time players struggle a lot and it's not everyday one is in the mood to explain all mechanics.

    Add to the fact that some players are extremely impatient and start to mistreat the new players. New players also don't communicate sometimes or they take as abusive a tip to improve their builds or do something to ensure the dungeon is ran smoothly.

    That generates so much toxicity. New players thinking old players are richards, or traumatized to run dungeons again. Old players thinking new players are morons who have no skill. Whilst I believe the majority of players would be kind to explain to a new person the dungeon, it is not uncommon to have a lot of new players complaining how they were kicked by vote or harassed by not knowing that a food buff is.

    Solution: ZOS must make it clear that you can't just bump a person to max level and throw them all in any dungeons and expect it to go smoothly. It must be clear to whoever is queuing or trying to do the content that you need more than a level bump to complete certain dungeons, and organize these dungeons in order.

    For instance, I am new player. I open group finder. I see a list of dungeon and their requirements: CP 160, gear score 5, healer and tank required, etc. Hey, I'm level 44, I will not queue for those, I will browse the list and queue for the ones shown to be beginner level, eventually when I reach CP 160 I will queue for the other ones.

    Whilst I know a soft version of that is in the game, as the Undaunted NPCs in each zone's tavern speaks about their zone dungeon and the other alliance dungeons on same difficult, I think that will be easily missed by new players. I believe that way you would not have to nerf certain dungeons and at the same time would build a more solid and friendly PVE base.

    TL;DR:

    Problem: Dungeons are all in a basket together and the real difficult is hard to be known by new players until it is too late.
    Solution: Make it easy for new players to see how difficult is organized by suggesting a minimum level, gear score and group composition.

    Despite my railing against difficult dungeons and all that...I couldn't have said it better myself. It is a problem. I've called many times for the surgeon generals warning to be put on dungeons like this.

    I've often wondered why we are able to queue for random vet dungeons and just be put in Ruins or Cradle as if they are in the same league. And it's a great example of this. If these dungeons were marketed as the hard sons of *** they are, I wouldn't be nearly as vehement. If they werrent put on the normal pledge list, which they wont, in like, a day, then I wouldn't care because I'd never do them. It's a very simple solution, honestly.

    I think, at least, that I still stand by adding an extra difficulty, but I'd like for ZOS to own the fact the dungeons their making are ultrahard and market them like it. Then maybe dedicate some dev time to some dungeons less hard.

    Props to you sir.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 4, 2016 1:44PM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
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