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4 Tiers of difficulty and dungeons are still this easy?

  • Vangy
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    Just make a difficulty slider with 2-3 tiers. Similar to the diablo 3 system.

    Rank 1 --> Ez mode. Waltz in thru solo half-naked and still complete for silver key

    Rank 2 --> Legit mode. Need proper roles and at least following of very very important mechanics like wardens portals ie. 1 gold key.

    Rank 3 --> Mini-vDSA mode. Need proper builds + all 3 roles. No cheesing thru via burn and mechanics compliance imperative. 2 gold keys.

    Or something similar. You can add more or less tiers for more reward variance. Like for example throw in rank 4 or something where there is a 50% chance for a gold accessory drop from last boss.
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
  • Lord_Dexter
    Lord_Dexter
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    pretzl wrote: »
    I was hoping this 4-tier system would make dungeons atleast alittle harder for the end-game (or close) community, but they're still soloable/duoable with a sub-par setup...
    It's fairly easy to duo any II dungeon on veteran with Hard Mode for all achievments. Are there any plans to actually increase the difficulty considering we now have 4 possible tiers to do them on @ZOS_Finn ?

    The reasoning for not increasing the difficulty since the birth of this game has always been to provide the more leant-back casual portion of the userbase with content they can complete aswell, but do they really need 4 possible tiers of difficulty? I'd think atleast one of them should enforce the use of higher-tier setups and promote skill, no?

    And before people inevitably start QQing about elitism and/or making things too hard etc. you'd still have 3 other difficulties to get your keys on. Dungeons wouldn't even need to be that much harder, just difficult enough to make it mandatory to have all roles in the trinity present whilst still keeping it inside a somewhat casual nature. People shouldn't be able to solo their way to 2 keys in a single run...

    We should not want it to be as difficult as trials..

    Therr should be a difference..
  • pretzl
    pretzl
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    pretzl wrote: »
    I was hoping this 4-tier system would make dungeons atleast alittle harder for the end-game (or close) community, but they're still soloable/duoable with a sub-par setup...
    It's fairly easy to duo any II dungeon on veteran with Hard Mode for all achievments. Are there any plans to actually increase the difficulty considering we now have 4 possible tiers to do them on @ZOS_Finn ?

    The reasoning for not increasing the difficulty since the birth of this game has always been to provide the more leant-back casual portion of the userbase with content they can complete aswell, but do they really need 4 possible tiers of difficulty? I'd think atleast one of them should enforce the use of higher-tier setups and promote skill, no?

    And before people inevitably start QQing about elitism and/or making things too hard etc. you'd still have 3 other difficulties to get your keys on. Dungeons wouldn't even need to be that much harder, just difficult enough to make it mandatory to have all roles in the trinity present whilst still keeping it inside a somewhat casual nature. People shouldn't be able to solo their way to 2 keys in a single run...

    We should not want it to be as difficult as trials..

    Therr should be a difference..

    That's not at all what I'm asking for. I completely understand the separation between dungeons and trials. Trials are for the end-game userbase, not casuals. Dungeons are for casuals. What I'm asking for is, given there really are 4 tiers of difficulty (2 and 2 separated by different quests) for most dungeons, why isn't one of those tiers just alittle harder so as to reward the end-game community just alittle more? I understand why some people are voicing angry opinions, but christ, no need for insults...
    Why should ZOS reward 1% of their userbase? Because we're the ones who play every single day. We're the ones who spend a *** of money in the crown store because we love the game. Because we're ultimately the ones who go on PTS to test things, make sure things are alright. Why shouldn't we be rewarded?

    I just can't wrap my head around how some people think it's okay that you can solo your way to 2 gold keys in a single dungeon. How you can effectively and relatively easily solo your way to upto 4 keys every day in 1T.

    Such a difficulty spike would possibly mean a rework of most bossfights, but in all honesty a bigger spike in health would actually force you to pay attention to mechanics.
    I did vet Vaults of Madness last night with a friend of mine. I had never seen a single mechanic in there before because honestly you could just stack and whack through them. I've never had so much fun before, because I was actually learning something about these dungeons. Granted, that fun quickly goes away after a run or two, but I still shouldn't be able to stack and whack through mechanics such as Bogdan's adds or Praxin's adds (yes, you can still do that). I've even gone back and done the exact same things with 300 CP and purple gear...

    This isn't a bragpost. Simply a post aiming to bring light to some of the glaring issues in all but DLC dungeons. People won't agree, people won't like that I'm part of that 1% of the userbase. It's as simple as that.

    Honestly, most of the time casuals are worse towards "elitists" than "elitists" are to them. It's a disgrace.
    CP | Chronically Capped
    Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
    Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
    Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
    twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    The reason I dont like Shadows of the Hist dungeons is mainly because the problem with it, is what the above post points out.

    There needs to be a difference between casual dungeons the meta does not matter in, and trials where it does. Enough with the imperialist attitute. Quit trying to repurpose all content, big and small, for the 1%. You''ll kill this game.

    That said, I'm still supportive of a third difficulty option for the people who -do- want the extreme difficulty, so the effort can be spent there, instead of making the dungeon entirely about difficulty and pleasing precisely 10% of the playerbase. I think that if the effort is spent on an 'elite' difficulty setting then we can better cater to the needs of the difficulty crowd, without driving everyone else off. Difficulty has a market, but it needs to be treated in preportion.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 3, 2016 10:48AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Khaos_Bane
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    ZoS is never going to make the majority of content exclusive to 1% of the population. That wouldn't make sense at all. People have asked for a difficulty slider though, but that should offer nothing but achievement, not exclusive gear.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    ZoS is never going to make the majority of content exclusive to 1% of the population. That wouldn't make sense at all. People have asked for a difficulty slider though, but that should offer nothing but achievement, not exclusive gear.

    They allready have.

    When all content being developed is exclusively for the people who want difficulty, everyone else gets to suck a fat one. And that's what the group content has been, since development started. Imperial city, Maw with thieves guild, Shadows of the hist, their all aimed at difficutly centric people, there is no trace of the casual air the old dungeons had.

    It's allready happening.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • pretzl
    pretzl
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    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    ZoS is never going to make the majority of content exclusive to 1% of the population. That wouldn't make sense at all. People have asked for a difficulty slider though, but that should offer nothing but achievement, not exclusive gear.

    Am I asking for exclusivity?
    Difficulty slider is somewhat what I'm talking about, but instead of a slider, it'd be an additional option to already existing content. No exclusive gear, just maybe a 3rd key for pledges or keeping the 2key thing exclusively for these dungeons. New achievments and that'd be it. I'm perfectly content with the current trial gear :smile:

    To clarify what I'm saying here; the current DLC dungeons are perfectly fine in terms of difficulty. I'd just propose to raise the difficulty of all other dungeons to just below this level, then DLC dungeons could be closer to what vWGT or vICP was a few updates after IC launch (they were alittle too hard for my taste when they first came out).
    Edited by pretzl on October 3, 2016 11:21AM
    CP | Chronically Capped
    Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
    Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
    Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
    twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo
  • pretzl
    pretzl
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    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    ZoS is never going to make the majority of content exclusive to 1% of the population. That wouldn't make sense at all. People have asked for a difficulty slider though, but that should offer nothing but achievement, not exclusive gear.

    They allready have.

    When all content being developed is exclusively for the people who want difficulty, everyone else gets to suck a fat one. And that's what the group content has been, since development started. Imperial city, Maw with thieves guild, Shadows of the hist, their all aimed at difficutly centric people, there is no trace of the casual air the old dungeons had.

    It's allready happening.

    Have you ever done a normal trial? DLC dungeons on normal? Exact same gear (except for gold versions in trials, which is how it should be), far less of a challenge. I like the fact that veteran content is aimed at actual veteran players. Normal content is aimed at normal players. Just the way it honestly should be...
    CP | Chronically Capped
    Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
    Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
    Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
    twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    pretzl wrote: »
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    ZoS is never going to make the majority of content exclusive to 1% of the population. That wouldn't make sense at all. People have asked for a difficulty slider though, but that should offer nothing but achievement, not exclusive gear.

    They allready have.

    When all content being developed is exclusively for the people who want difficulty, everyone else gets to suck a fat one. And that's what the group content has been, since development started. Imperial city, Maw with thieves guild, Shadows of the hist, their all aimed at difficutly centric people, there is no trace of the casual air the old dungeons had.

    It's allready happening.

    Have you ever done a normal trial? DLC dungeons on normal? Exact same gear (except for gold versions in trials, which is how it should be), far less of a challenge. I like the fact that veteran content is aimed at actual veteran players. Normal content is aimed at normal players. Just the way it honestly should be...

    I've done normal trials.

    I've done veteran dungeons, including shadows of the hist dungeons.

    My stance remains the same. If veteran dungeons are now officially for the 'meta' players only, you have ripped content from the hands of people who previously had it, and have repurposed it. You have taken it. Taken dev time, and content, from everyone else.

    I have not met a single person who can do the veteran hard mode fully scaled to 160. And no one that has tried, has wanted to do it again. The content will go by the wayside, and people will forget about it. With the alternate questgiver going up in a couple of days, nobody will do these dungeons anymore. mark my words. It'll be more effort for the same reward they could get if they just did the other pledges, and your brilliant temples to difficulty, will remain empty. Until the designers wake up and realize how small the audience really is.
    Edited by Doctordarkspawn on October 3, 2016 11:31AM
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Akrimus
    Akrimus
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    Yet another "content-is-too-easy"-thread. Need no-cp mode not only in PvP-campaign special for hardcore-seekers
    PC EU DC Akrimus (Sorcerer) Daggerfall Bandits
  • pretzl
    pretzl
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    pretzl wrote: »
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    ZoS is never going to make the majority of content exclusive to 1% of the population. That wouldn't make sense at all. People have asked for a difficulty slider though, but that should offer nothing but achievement, not exclusive gear.

    They allready have.

    When all content being developed is exclusively for the people who want difficulty, everyone else gets to suck a fat one. And that's what the group content has been, since development started. Imperial city, Maw with thieves guild, Shadows of the hist, their all aimed at difficutly centric people, there is no trace of the casual air the old dungeons had.

    It's allready happening.

    Have you ever done a normal trial? DLC dungeons on normal? Exact same gear (except for gold versions in trials, which is how it should be), far less of a challenge. I like the fact that veteran content is aimed at actual veteran players. Normal content is aimed at normal players. Just the way it honestly should be...

    I've done normal trials.

    I've done veteran dungeons, including shadows of the hist dungeons.

    My stance remains the same. If veteran dungeons are now officially for the 'meta' players only, you have ripped content from the hands of people who previously had it, and have repurposed it. You have taken it. Taken dev time, and content, from everyone else.

    I have not met a single person who can do the veteran hard mode fully scaled to 160. And no one that has tried, has wanted to do it again. The content will go by the wayside, and people will forget about it. With the alternate questgiver going up in a couple of days, nobody will do these dungeons anymore. mark my words. It'll be more effort for the same reward they could get if they just did the other pledges, and your brilliant temples to difficulty, will remain empty. Until the designers wake up and realize how small the audience really is.

    I'm not asking for anything to be removed or taken away from anyone. I only originally stated that there are 4 tiers of difficulty and asked why one isn't significantly harder than the other 3. Now, I'm not asking for one of those 4 to be removed, I'm asking for something to be added... An additional level of difficulty.
    Edited by pretzl on October 3, 2016 12:01PM
    CP | Chronically Capped
    Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
    Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
    Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
    twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Akrimus wrote: »
    Yet another "content-is-too-easy"-thread. Need no-cp mode not only in PvP-campaign special for hardcore-seekers

    This.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Milvan
    Milvan
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    Unfortunatelly, the age of the hard and challenging mmorpgs are long gone. The casuals have taken the market and ZOS knows that. Look at this very forum.

    The game is clearly oriented to the casual-solo-scrolls player and there isn't much what we can do.
    Akrimus wrote: »
    Yet another "content-is-too-easy"-thread. Need no-cp mode not only in PvP-campaign special for hardcore-seekers

    This is really stupid comment of someone that doesn't have anything to add on the subject. We don't want to get rid of cp to have challenging content, we want content that can stand up upon or cps and we want proper rewards that match the level of difficulty. Right now the group dungeons are just a give-away gear fest. It just ridiculous.
    “Kings of the land and the sky we are; proud gryphons.” Stalker stands, the epitome of pride. Naked and muscular, his wings widen and his feet dig in as if he alone holds down the earth and supports the heavens, keeping the two ever separate.”
    Gryphons guild - @Milvan,
  • Doctordarkspawn
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    Milvan wrote: »
    Unfortunatelly, the age of the hard and challenging mmorpgs are long gone. The casuals have taken the market and ZOS knows that. Look at this very forum.

    The game is clearly oriented to the casual-solo-scrolls player and there isn't much what we can do.
    Akrimus wrote: »
    Yet another "content-is-too-easy"-thread. Need no-cp mode not only in PvP-campaign special for hardcore-seekers

    This is really stupid comment of someone that doesn't have anything to add on the subject. We don't want to get rid of cp to have challenging content, we want content that can stand up upon or cps and we want proper rewards that match the level of difficulty. Right now the group dungeons are just a give-away gear fest. It just ridiculous.

    Add a no-CP mode.

    Let it drop legendary stuff.

    Problem solved.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Akrimus
    Akrimus
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    Group dungeons are not designed as a ultra-hard activity. Trials - yes.
    PC EU DC Akrimus (Sorcerer) Daggerfall Bandits
  • kojou
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    Its an interesting challenge for the developers, because it is almost impossible to make everybody happy.

    First they have to balance between a fun challenge and punishing/annoying difficulty. Veteran White Gold Tower was in the realm of fun challenge "pre-nerf" where as Veteran Imperial City Prison was in the realm of annoying difficulty IMO. Veteran City of Ash was a fun challenge, but was a bit too long, so players would rather skip across the lava to fulfill the pledge than do everything that was laid out as intended. All were scaled down because casual groups weren't completing them to get their pledges.

    On a side note Veteran Maelstrom Arena is so far into the realm of annoying/punishing it redefines it. I don't know a single player that runs it that actually likes it. Most that I know are just doing it to get their weapons in the correct traits and don't ever want to do it again after. Content should not be like this.

    The second challenge is to make the difficulty at an appropriate scale. Last night we got a speed run, no death, gold pledge (I know because I was running a new tank that didn't have the achievements yet) on CoA without a problem, but I was running with 2 DPS's that had more than 60k DPS between the 2 of them, a healer that was putting out another 20k+, and I was putting out 10k on my Tank. We were scaled so far out of proportion for the dungeon it was ridiculous. Should we scale the dungeon so that it is a challenge for that group? Probably not, since I don't know how many players can put together that kind of group every night. I know I can't.

    Here is my recommendation for making dungeons hard again for players that think they are too easy. Make a tank and run "pick up groups" AKA PUGs with new players. Do it with the attitude that you are going to help them become better players and be patient and helpful to them. It will not be easy. You will be on a tank so the amount of DPS you can contribute will be minimal. You will have to do the mechanics because the DPS will not be high enough to just burn everything down. I've been doing this on my new stamina DK to get my undaunted up and make the dungeons a bit more fun again and it is working so far.

    While there are nights when I just want to burn through a pledge with a group of players from my trials guilds and get the gold key, I have found fun and challenge in 4 man dungeons by helping new players learn the lessons that I learned so long ago. I personally would rather find my own way to make them challenging and have the developers make the second parts of the dungeons that don't have one yet to finish the stories than re-scale the old ones I've already done many times.

    Edited by kojou on October 3, 2016 2:49PM
    Playing since beta...
  • LadyNalcarya
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    Shadow of the hist dungeons need nerfed.

    People dont do those or ICP now. Difficulty isn't what people want, their just too scared of being yelled at by the difficulty enthusiasts to say it out loud.

    What will the difficult dungeons do? What will a third difficulty tier do, for the playerbase? I'd be fine with the dudes who loooove shadow of the hist to get a third difficulty where things drop only in gold so they can flood the market and make lots of money, that's fair enough, but quit trying to suffocate the game by making it ultrahard and driving away all but the hardcore audience. If anything, a third difficulty tier needs to be made so that the devs can focus on trying to make -interesting- dungeons instead of trying to pander to a small part of the playerbase.

    People have told me if we make it all easy it'll kill the game. That's not what I've seen. I've seen parts of the game that are just barren, be the hardest parts. Hopefully, when the new questgiver goes live in four days the devs will get an accurate read on what the playerbase actually wants, and tune things accordingly. There just needs to be a -three- tier difficulty system so we can finally get it out of the way.

    Those "difficult dungeons" all have normal modes that are specifically made for casual players.
    If we're talking about SoTH dungeons, normal modes even drop helmets (+all gear sets of course). Keys for dailies will be equalized in 1T update, so youll get the rewards anyway (just one key instead of 2, but thats fair).
    So whats the issue?
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • Bryanonymous
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    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.
    Edited by Bryanonymous on October 3, 2016 6:49PM
  • LadyNalcarya
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    Milvan wrote: »
    Unfortunatelly, the age of the hard and challenging mmorpgs are long gone. The casuals have taken the market and ZOS knows that. Look at this very forum.

    The game is clearly oriented to the casual-solo-scrolls player and there isn't much what we can do.
    Akrimus wrote: »
    Yet another "content-is-too-easy"-thread. Need no-cp mode not only in PvP-campaign special for hardcore-seekers

    This is really stupid comment of someone that doesn't have anything to add on the subject. We don't want to get rid of cp to have challenging content, we want content that can stand up upon or cps and we want proper rewards that match the level of difficulty. Right now the group dungeons are just a give-away gear fest. It just ridiculous.

    There's no "black and white" in terms of difficulty and balance.
    Catering to casuals is understandable, but some sort of healthy balance is needed. For example, many casual players support p2w models, where you can either grind for items or buy them from cash shop (which is proven by the popularity of such models). Also many casuals would like to have all the BiS gear and endgame achievements handed to them, but an mmo game has to keep players involved in a long term.
    Of course, making an AAA mmo like eso hardcore-oriented would be a suicide. But considering how diverse ESO playerbase is, would be nice to have options.
    Edited by LadyNalcarya on October 3, 2016 6:38PM
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason

    PC/EU
  • grom1024
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    If dungeon are too easy for your 531+ characters in BiS and experienced in mechanics, try to carry cp200 characters in the group. Or go to vet trials. They are designed as next difficulty tier as I understand. Also few groups could do DLC dungeons legit. Vet dungeons should be ok for cp300+ characters, so they will be naturally easy for you.

    I yet to go with a pug group that beats vWGT legit, there is always at least one person that does not understands portals even after careful explanation and few wipes. I had much better luck with vICP and beaten it on my tank few times.
  • Attackopsn
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    Ruben wrote: »
    Attackopsn wrote: »
    DHale wrote: »
    I am there for a helm or shoulders in a specific trait and a specific weight.

    And you don't have to spend two hours in there, you can complete it at a lower tier of difficulty.

    He wants a monster helm, so there is no lower tier possible.


    ZOS buff reading, please.

    Ironically you are ignoring my own post in the same way. Like I said, dungeons are the easiest content in the game, and making them easier will only create less instances providing opportunities for improvement in players that need it. If you are struggling in this content, it is highly likely that you need this progression. Making the dungeon easier won't make the content ahead easier, and it will only make the immediately sought after reward less rewarding after the nerf to the content. All you are doing is eliminating an opportunity to progress as a player. I don't understand why so many people not only fail to see this but fight so hard for instant gratification in a game that is based around this infinite progression.
    Edited by Attackopsn on October 3, 2016 7:55PM
    ign: ATTACKO
    PS4 NA
    First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode (all NA servers)
    vma:592,363 vdsa:46,792 vhrc:152,866 vaa:142,703 vso:163,432 vmol:154797
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    GM of Majeeka
  • Attackopsn
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    Shadow of the hist dungeons need nerfed.

    People dont do those or ICP now. Difficulty isn't what people want, their just too scared of being yelled at by the difficulty enthusiasts to say it out loud.

    What will the difficult dungeons do? What will a third difficulty tier do, for the playerbase? I'd be fine with the dudes who loooove shadow of the hist to get a third difficulty where things drop only in gold so they can flood the market and make lots of money, that's fair enough, but quit trying to suffocate the game by making it ultrahard and driving away all but the hardcore audience. If anything, a third difficulty tier needs to be made so that the devs can focus on trying to make -interesting- dungeons instead of trying to pander to a small part of the playerbase.

    People have told me if we make it all easy it'll kill the game. That's not what I've seen. I've seen parts of the game that are just barren, be the hardest parts. Hopefully, when the new questgiver goes live in four days the devs will get an accurate read on what the playerbase actually wants, and tune things accordingly. There just needs to be a -three- tier difficulty system so we can finally get it out of the way.

    Those "difficult dungeons" all have normal modes that are specifically made for casual players.
    If we're talking about SoTH dungeons, normal modes even drop helmets (+all gear sets of course). Keys for dailies will be equalized in 1T update, so youll get the rewards anyway (just one key instead of 2, but thats fair).
    So whats the issue?

    The issue is that they want two keys for the same amount of work, so they rally against "elitism" and such until the content is nerfed endlessly into the ground. If you really want a casual scenic path through these dungeons unlike the ones trying to cheese helmets, do what the majority of the community did in Soth for the most recent skins and scale it to cp10. At the end of the day the majority of rebuttal here is irrelevant, as the request here is to at a minimum provide a challenge, not replace the bulk of current normal content. Add not replace.
    Edited by Attackopsn on October 3, 2016 8:16PM
    ign: ATTACKO
    PS4 NA
    First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode (all NA servers)
    vma:592,363 vdsa:46,792 vhrc:152,866 vaa:142,703 vso:163,432 vmol:154797
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    GM of Majeeka
  • Attackopsn
    Attackopsn
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    grom1024 wrote: »
    If dungeon are too easy for your 531+ characters in BiS and experienced in mechanics, try to carry cp200 characters in the group. Or go to vet trials. They are designed as next difficulty tier as I understand. Also few groups could do DLC dungeons legit. Vet dungeons should be ok for cp300+ characters, so they will be naturally easy for you.

    I yet to go with a pug group that beats vWGT legit, there is always at least one person that does not understands portals even after careful explanation and few wipes. I had much better luck with vICP and beaten it on my tank few times.

    We don't want artificial difficulty created by inexperienced players, we, like you, want at least more four man content that is fun for us at our stage in the game. Not to say this hasn't improved in the past few months, but the difference between a player that hasn't beaten content and one that has is that the player who has finds the lower tiers about as enjoyable as someone like you might find the difficulty level of a baby zone quest.
    Edited by Attackopsn on October 3, 2016 8:28PM
    ign: ATTACKO
    PS4 NA
    First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode (all NA servers)
    vma:592,363 vdsa:46,792 vhrc:152,866 vaa:142,703 vso:163,432 vmol:154797
    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
    GM of Majeeka
  • pretzl
    pretzl
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    Take off your armor. Problem solved. Smh... Elitist nonsense.

    Or another idea... That tryhard min/max build you worked so hard for to make the game easier... They should just nerf it. Then maybe you would find the difficulty more entertaining. I'm serious. No one forces you people to allocate you cp. Play without them.

    Whatever you're on, I want some. But at the same time I don't.
    That gear I worked so hard on to make the game easier? Wtf is that? I make gear and CP allocations to what's BiS to make myself better, not make the game easier.
    Noone forces casuals to be *** at the game. Noone forces end-game players to be good at the game. We do these things because it's our own way of enjoying it.

    Now get the *** out of my thread if you're gonna post stupid *** like that. Kthx.
    CP | Chronically Capped
    Characters | pretzL (Stamblade) , Brannbil (Stamplar) , Spicy pretzL (mDK) , Campingbil (MagSorc) , Saltkringla (Magplar) , Disco Dan (sDK) , Darth Salty (Mag NB) , Plebsorc (Stamsorc), pretzLeroni (Magplar), Mahoogler (pvp mDK)
    Guilds | HODOR & Who Pulled
    Kindling Power Magicka DK Build
    twitch.tv/pretzlcsgo
  • leeux
    leeux
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    IF difficulty meant engaging combat and more intelligent AI, I'd all for it, but in reality is means damage sponges and half of the game mechanics disabled [1], so... no, thanks, I play Dark Souls for stuff like that, and it's actually more engaging, fairer and more polished.

    [1] like:
    * enemies use un-purgeable abilities, or
    * unavoidable CCs that you can't block, or
    * enemies spamming snares on you constantly,
    * 1HK that give no warning except memorizing patterns, that you can't avoid easily when playing with PR > 300ms

    EDIT: typo
    Edited by leeux on October 3, 2016 11:12PM
    PC/NA - Proud old member of the Antique Ordinatus Populus

    My chars
    Liana Amnell (EP mSorc L50+) =x= Lehnnan Klennett (AD mTemplar L50+ Healer/Support ) =x= Ethim Amnell (DC mDK L50+)
    Leinwyn Valaene (AD mSorc L50+) =x= Levus Artorias (AD mDK-for-now L50+) =x= Madril Ulessen (AD mNB L50+) =x= Lyra Amnis (AD not-Stamplar-yet L50+)
    I only PvP on AD chars

    ~~ «And blossoms anew beneath tomorrow's sun >>»
    ~~ «I am forever swimming around, amidst this ocean world we call home... >>»
    ~~ "Let strength be granted so the world might be mended... so the world might be mended."
    ~~ "Slash the silver chain that binds thee to life"
    ~~ Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn. >>
    ~~ The sands of time were eroded by the river of constant change >>
  • Trihugger
    Trihugger
    ✭✭✭
    As someone who used to approach games as to how playable they are based on how healthy their raiding scene was...

    I do not want daily quest content to exclude the player base that actually wants to play. As it stands I'd love for veteran dungeons to be like Wrath of the Lich King era WoW heroic dungeons where I could go in with almost any of my buddies so long as they knew how to play the game to some terribly low minimum standard. Yes if I went in with my full raid geared crew we would destroy them, but the difference wasn't so apparent.

    I think if people really want to push for hard content, push for trials. Dev time is limited, and everyone needs to accept this stone cold fact. Trials are already geared towards large relatively more organized groups of people that isn't generally associated with the term "daily." They could arguably go the Ulduar route of hardmodes where every boss has some mechanism to activate and the hardcore could have their true veteran hm trial dungeon. Personally I think it's a waste of dev time, but if they're going to do this anywhere, doing it in the trial scene makes the most sense.

    That or like many have suggested, make a non-CP dungeon setting that drops really high end stuff.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Shadow of the hist dungeons need nerfed.

    People dont do those or ICP now. Difficulty isn't what people want, their just too scared of being yelled at by the difficulty enthusiasts to say it out loud.

    What will the difficult dungeons do? What will a third difficulty tier do, for the playerbase? I'd be fine with the dudes who loooove shadow of the hist to get a third difficulty where things drop only in gold so they can flood the market and make lots of money, that's fair enough, but quit trying to suffocate the game by making it ultrahard and driving away all but the hardcore audience. If anything, a third difficulty tier needs to be made so that the devs can focus on trying to make -interesting- dungeons instead of trying to pander to a small part of the playerbase.

    People have told me if we make it all easy it'll kill the game. That's not what I've seen. I've seen parts of the game that are just barren, be the hardest parts. Hopefully, when the new questgiver goes live in four days the devs will get an accurate read on what the playerbase actually wants, and tune things accordingly. There just needs to be a -three- tier difficulty system so we can finally get it out of the way.

    Those "difficult dungeons" all have normal modes that are specifically made for casual players.
    If we're talking about SoTH dungeons, normal modes even drop helmets (+all gear sets of course). Keys for dailies will be equalized in 1T update, so youll get the rewards anyway (just one key instead of 2, but thats fair).
    So whats the issue?

    The issue was that the choice was either "Do the dungeons when pledges come up or take the day off". Most people took the day off.

    Now that their geting their own quest giver in like two days, this wont be an issue anymore, as the content will need to be able to stand on it's own interest wise or get nerfed into the ground to get people playing it.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
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    Akrimus wrote: »
    Group dungeons are not designed as a ultra-hard activity. Trials - yes.

    Is there a way to present you with gifts? Because you got it right.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Doctordarkspawn
    Doctordarkspawn
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    pretzl wrote: »
    pretzl wrote: »
    Khaos_Bane wrote: »
    ZoS is never going to make the majority of content exclusive to 1% of the population. That wouldn't make sense at all. People have asked for a difficulty slider though, but that should offer nothing but achievement, not exclusive gear.

    They allready have.

    When all content being developed is exclusively for the people who want difficulty, everyone else gets to suck a fat one. And that's what the group content has been, since development started. Imperial city, Maw with thieves guild, Shadows of the hist, their all aimed at difficutly centric people, there is no trace of the casual air the old dungeons had.

    It's allready happening.

    Have you ever done a normal trial? DLC dungeons on normal? Exact same gear (except for gold versions in trials, which is how it should be), far less of a challenge. I like the fact that veteran content is aimed at actual veteran players. Normal content is aimed at normal players. Just the way it honestly should be...

    I've done normal trials.

    I've done veteran dungeons, including shadows of the hist dungeons.

    My stance remains the same. If veteran dungeons are now officially for the 'meta' players only, you have ripped content from the hands of people who previously had it, and have repurposed it. You have taken it. Taken dev time, and content, from everyone else.

    I have not met a single person who can do the veteran hard mode fully scaled to 160. And no one that has tried, has wanted to do it again. The content will go by the wayside, and people will forget about it. With the alternate questgiver going up in a couple of days, nobody will do these dungeons anymore. mark my words. It'll be more effort for the same reward they could get if they just did the other pledges, and your brilliant temples to difficulty, will remain empty. Until the designers wake up and realize how small the audience really is.

    I'm not asking for anything to be removed or taken away from anyone. I only originally stated that there are 4 tiers of difficulty and asked why one isn't significantly harder than the other 3. Now, I'm not asking for one of those 4 to be removed, I'm asking for something to be added... An additional level of difficulty.

    You are asking for dev time and effort to be put toward difficult content which is allready in the game, slowly hedging out and outnumbering content the rest of us can pug. Whether you like it or not, or are concious of it or not, geting what you want drives the people who dont want it, out.

    Enough with this push for eliteist pricks. Enough. Out. Go play darksouls.
    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    To me, the measure of a man is whether or not he fights for his principles. It does not matter if you never had a chance to begin with. The deck could be stacked, the game rigged against you. You fight to the bitter end, because it is worth fighting for.

    NA-PC Tank player only.
  • Vangy
    Vangy
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    I think the irrational fear of elitism is getting out of hand here lol.

    No one wants to take anything away from casuals. People are just asking for a version of non-DLC dungeons that are not a snooze fest. Compare normal and veteran dungeons in one tamriel. From what I understand, doing a dungeon on normal and veteran has almost no difference with respect to loot. Any non-accessory gear can be upgraded to gold and there would be no difference to how you got said piece of loot; from veteran or from normal.

    You could for instance, add an extra layer of difficulty that drops gold accessories that are in the difficulty range of the hist DLC dungeons. You will lose nothing but the shot at gold accessories which 99% of the time casuals had no way of acquiring anyway. (you arent going to get gold VO drops for ex, by doing normal trials). This is just adding stuff to the game. And if you are a casual, you still have full access to EZ mode dungeons for a shot at purple accessories.

    Dont see how this is elitist. Elitist would be like, oh make the current vet dungeons 5 times harder and make normals drop cp150 gear!!!. But no. We arent asking for this. You can do ur normals or the current vet ones for blue and purple CP160 loot while the new layer will just give a shot at gold accessories. Kind of like how the vet trials work.

    So both casuals and hardcore gamers can all have their fun in their comfort zone and get appropriately rewarded based on their skill level. Ignoring the needs one group of gamers just because they make up the minority (ie CP 500+ players who are very skilled and are getting bored with vet content) is akin to share-holder oppression lol. ESO is already very casual friendly in terms of people having access to 99% of the best loot by doing face-roll content. Besides, look at the new overland sets being opened up to everyone. Anyone can get these with close to 0 effort. If anything, ESO is becoming carebear land.... nothing to do with elitism. People good at the game just want something to do that isnt a snore-fest (for them).
    Edited by Vangy on October 4, 2016 5:22AM
    (2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
    (2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
    (2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
    (1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
    CP: 610 and counting

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz
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