If Stamina versions of the classes could have 3 nerfs, what nerfs would they be? Opinions...

Ghost-Shot

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

For everyone suggesting to buff mag instead, keep in mind that continuous buffing does not create balance when you have stam specs capable of instant kills right now. We need a middle ground, mag should be buffed a bit to avoid gutting stam but stam needs a bit of a nerf.

as I wrote in other post.....you cant balance with only buffs, its nonsense, balance need a bit this and a bit of other this.

now dual maelstrom getting small nerf and this is good, nerf something to good instead of buffing all all other things around which will start doing problems for begginers, easier and better to nerf just 1 overpowered thing "instead of buffing all"

Agree with you, Stamina Class look overpowered because most people who run it actually know their thing. Grab any new player and get him a stamina build and you'll look how it goes ! Stamina aren't overpower, they are harder to play and so gather some bonus which can make them look interesting when playing with experimented player.

Magicka have more buff to help them sustain, they have more defensive ability (shield easy to get), they have better overall avoidance skill while maintaining DPS... I mean overall Magicka are pretty strong !

Only issue, if your stamina dude can follow the mobs, keep on with tank, and avoid everything that's thrown at him (short range damage) and if the boss has no mecanics to avoid close range (which most have), then he shall be more efficient then you are... if not ... well that stamina dude should be playing a magicka !

They are most certainly not difficult to play, as someone who plays both, magicka builds tend to have far more intricate rotations, stamina just has access to overpowered sets and can stack obscene stats.

BattleAxe

Simple change balance dps thru whole game remove animation canceling all problems solved including lag and latency issues

Dubhliam

1. Reduce the duration of Shuffle to 12 secs
2. Increase the stamina cost of Vigor
3. Remove the damage component of Black Rose

Sharee

One nerf would be sufficient: remove vigor from the game.

strikeback1247

Sharee wrote: »

One nerf would be sufficient: remove vigor from the game.

That's like saying "remove the ability to duel on stamina classes". Then stamina builds can only gank because they can't keep up with the healing from magicka.

Lava_Croft

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

One nerf would be sufficient: remove vigor from the game.

That's like saying "remove the ability to duel on stamina classes". Then stamina builds can only gank because they can't keep up with the healing from magicka.

Exactly what 'healing from Magicka' except Breath of Life is too much for Vigor and Rally to keep up with?

kaalmoth

shuffle is actually a damage shield, even often better than a DS, and it should be treated as such.
Other than that, the one kind of stam I hate to fight are NBs cause they have basically everything, hiding, damage, speed, range and even heal.

cjthibs

Dubhliam wrote: »

1. Remove the damage component of Black Rose

Why?
1 bonus of 154 damage or whatever means nothing.
I can take any set I want and stack that 3 times that with just jewelry enchants. ...or even more with weapon enchants.

154 damage is not going to make you a beast...especially when most medium armor wearers are rocking 4-5k weapon damage.

You guys are just looking for a convenient scapegoat.

If anything in this game needs to be nerfed it's the cheesy insta-damage monster helm sets.

Espica

Get rid of animation cancel, or put an internal or global cooldown to limit it.
I admit people that do it constantly are very very skilled players to master it to such degree, but it's just too much burst damage.

Banana

Just buff the magic folk. No point making people worse, which is there normal method of fixing something.

strikeback1247

Lava_Croft wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

One nerf would be sufficient: remove vigor from the game.

That's like saying "remove the ability to duel on stamina classes". Then stamina builds can only gank because they can't keep up with the healing from magicka.

Exactly what 'healing from Magicka' except Breath of Life is too much for Vigor and Rally to keep up with?

Rally is not enough to keep up with most resto staff abilities, especially healing ward. Hell, rally alone is barely enough to keep up with magblade healing abilities. Removing vigor from the game would force every stambuild to use 2H in pvp or to just become a oneshot glasscannon ganker. Just nerf it, no more extreme changes please.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

cjthibs wrote: »

The problem isn't stam vs. magicka.
The problem is a lack of caps. Being able to stack insane amounts of damage is just ridiculous and it just so happens that it is easier to stack weapon damage.

its not just that, you can use viper and velidrith(for example, there is other combos too) for a free extra 20k burst damage which magica just has no good options for that burst is really noticeable in pvp.
+ vigor is just crazy strong and every stam build has it with no drawbacks.
+ sorcs turn 3k magica into 9k health and 5k stam, its insane that needs to cost more magica.

caps is an issue but stamina burst sets+ malstrom daggers is whats going on, dont equip any of that and gl pulling 20k more dps than magica

Minalan

I know this is odd coming from me of all people. But Stamina *classes* are not overpowered.

The stamina sets are, it lets people make really cancerous builds. It's to the point where you need one to compete. Bear with me here, but imagine how where stamina would be without:

Viper
Widow
Velidreth
Reactive
Malubeth

That's where the problem is. Whomever designed these sets (and coded Malubeth) broke the game balance for the most part. Give magicka users equivalents of all of those sets, with set bonuses that buff max magicka and magicka regent instead of stamina, and the forum tears will be epic.

Nerf Sorc and their stupid spell viper and ranged velidreth! This is so much BS!

OMG! Magicka Templars with magicka reactive and malubeth, ZOS what were you thinking?!

TL;DR. Don't nerf stamina. Give magicka all of the same tools stamina has. Then let's see how many people are willing to nerf the proc set cancer.

BattleAxe

Remove animation canceling will not only get rid of a lot of problems but allow for less lag now so players who rely on animation canceling for extreme dps yes takes skill or not since animation canceling is essentially button mashing. A monkey could put out high dps button mashing. Now solution to remove animation canceling and still keep high dmg output have skills that build off each other. Prime example make a stam dk 2h use uppercut (morph ur preference) then follow up immediately with venomous claw the animation of the 2 slides together like poetry. Make skills build on each other yes Ik people will say empower but no wut I mean let the skills simply by their animations build dmg uppercut knocks them in the air venomous claw knocks them down should cause 2 things of dmg 1 for the hit 2 for the ground impact. I hope people understand or see where I'm going with this. Remove animation canceling revamp skills and incorporate the animation into causing dmg. Again I hope people get where I'm trying to go with this.

Alp

Am I the only one that feels weak as a stamina user? Vigor is my own real healing ability as a stamina nightblade that doesn't rely on me killing something. Maybe it's because I don't use any monster sets on that character so maybe that's where your problem is because I certainly don't feel overpowered. I can barely do the normal maelstrom arena.

Ghost-Shot

Alp wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels weak as a stamina user? Vigor is my own real healing ability as a stamina nightblade that doesn't rely on me killing something. Maybe it's because I don't use any monster sets on that character so maybe that's where your problem is because I certainly don't feel overpowered. I can barely do the normal maelstrom arena.

I don't mean this to be an *** so please don't take it that way, but if you feel weak on any stam build you need to learn how to play it.

Dubhliam

cjthibs wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

1. Remove the damage component of Black Rose

Why?
1 bonus of 154 damage or whatever means nothing.
I can take any set I want and stack that 3 times that with just jewelry enchants. ...or even more with weapon enchants.

154 damage is not going to make you a beast...especially when most medium armor wearers are rocking 4-5k weapon damage.

You guys are just looking for a convenient scapegoat.

If anything in this game needs to be nerfed it's the cheesy insta-damage monster helm sets.

Well, if it won't be missed, why are you making such a big fuss over it?
I mentioned two other "nerfs" yet you ignored those.

Let me guess... somebody is using BR...

Memnock

Stamina skills are not the problem , the issue in the game right now is the amount of sets oriented towards stamina users that gives them bonuses that go far beyond what a mage has access to.

The best example that i can think of the top of my head is the massive benefits that stamina guys enjoy with a Viper's Sting set equipped and mages have access to... Galerion's Revenge that comes kind of close to it until you take a look at the 5 bonus that does weaker dmg and you have to attack the target 6 times to get the proc compared to the viper guys who activate the bonus dmg with every melee attack , with a CD of 4 seconds. Same thing applies to Vicions Ophidian and Inflatable Ether , the sets that shoudl be the BIS things for their respective dps styles , the 5 piece bonus from the mage set is a DPS loss to anyone who tries to use the bonus compared to the stamina counterpart.

After One Tam hits live , they said they will be working on mage balance , which i hope means an overhaul for mage sets and equipment in general ( staves output is thrash compared to melee stuff IMHO ) , so it is brought up to stam levels.

Wreuntzylla

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Funny when people say 'X doesn't need a nerf, Y needs a buff'... In other words, do we make the game easier or harder? XD

Yes. Especially when X and Y cover the entire spectrum. We don't need PvE to be any easier, so nerf and not buff please.

cjthibs

Dubhliam wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

1. Remove the damage component of Black Rose

Why?
1 bonus of 154 damage or whatever means nothing.
I can take any set I want and stack that 3 times that with just jewelry enchants. ...or even more with weapon enchants.

154 damage is not going to make you a beast...especially when most medium armor wearers are rocking 4-5k weapon damage.

You guys are just looking for a convenient scapegoat.

If anything in this game needs to be nerfed it's the cheesy insta-damage monster helm sets.

Well, if it won't be missed, why are you making such a big fuss over it?
I mentioned two other "nerfs" yet you ignored those.

Let me guess... somebody is using BR...

Actually, I don't use Black Rose.

My favorite sets right now is Draugr's Heritage or Pelinal's Aptitude with either Ravager or Dreugh King Slayer.

cjthibs

-- Double-post --

Autolycus

This is in no way constructive. Pointless thread is pointless.

Sugaroverdose

Minalan wrote: »

I know this is odd coming from me of all people. But Stamina *classes* are not overpowered.

The stamina sets are, it lets people make really cancerous builds. It's to the point where you need one to compete. Bear with me here, but imagine how where stamina would be without:

Viper
Widow
Velidreth
Reactive
Malubeth

That's where the problem is. Whomever designed these sets (and coded Malubeth) broke the game balance for the most part. Give magicka users equivalents of all of those sets, with set bonuses that buff max magicka and magicka regent instead of stamina, and the forum tears will be epic.

Nerf Sorc and their stupid spell viper and ranged velidreth! This is so much BS!

OMG! Magicka Templars with magicka reactive and malubeth, ZOS what were you thinking?!

TL;DR. Don't nerf stamina. Give magicka all of the same tools stamina has. Then let's see how many people are willing to nerf the proc set cancer.

Make the game of meta "no matter magicka/stamina just praise the gods for proc".

Stamina must be double nerfed, magicka should be nerfed: "buff instead of nerf" is already made bust so huge that every f one run HA in cyrodiil to be at least same-way survivable as he was in LA before this PoS

Rilmarshim

Minalan wrote: »

Bear with me here, but imagine how where stamina would be without:
Viper
Widow
Velidreth
Reactive
Malubeth

From all of the above I use only 1pc of Velidreth and still can do 19-25k DPS if everything goes right. Where are your gods now?

jhharvest

Stamina changes:
Remove gap closer snare
Change shuffle to a pseudo-RNG (i.e. can't dodge two or more attacks in a row), duration shortened to 12 seconds
Vigor changed to a longer HoT or cost increased dramatically
Proc sets changed so they can't proc off one another or some other change to lower burst

Magicka changes:
Shields duration 12s, removed shield stacking
Healing spells spammed have increasing cost, like Streak / Dodge roll but not as extreme (10% increase per cast?)
Streak range increased or mobility at the end of it fixed
Cloak made to work reliably, user feedback when character is invis, but has increasing cost like Streak / Dodge roll with 10s timer

Probably would need a bit more work. Just some random spitballing.

Baconlad

so...let me input here. regarding shuffle, 20 seconds of dodge chance for lets say 4k stam cost. how many skills does that make you dodge? well ***..lol in cyrodil 20 seconds is a lot of skills, double for each enemy around, you're dodging, outright completely 100% mitigating 20% of all attacks...not to mention zero points into bastion = more points into other defensive CPs. in defensive play, cast once, remaining defense comes from blocking, vigor (fire and forget, also main stam heal), rally and mainly dodge rolling (which doesnt take up a slot on ur action bar) fire and for forget skill here.

lets look at anulment, due to battle spirit nerf, with 37k magicka and 100 points into bastion is like 9k. a bit more if you choose the other morph that doesnt give cost back. lasts 6 seconds. so in your defensive play, you cast say harness magick, boom NB hits you, shields down in less than 1 second, you want more 100% mitigation? cast again, boom...another assault from templar jabs, ok recast. so in a matter of twenty seconds. how many times did you have to recast this skill in open combat? we can spit ball and say that in order to not take eve 1% damage to our healthbar, it had to be cast every four seconds. against the meta enemy, we do not get mag back for it, so lets say it cost 3k magick, ok well...thats five casts big guys. or 15k magick. we don't have vigor. as a templar, if i want to heal? i have to cast boL then bubble, then jump into combat, and everytime my shield goes down and i take massive damage, i have to stop offending, and go defensive, casting my heal then shield again. by the time twenty seconds is up, i'm done, mag gone. only way i can compete with resources is to use drink, or go resto offbar, or stack regen instead of damage.

where is stamina equivalent? stamina has in general higher regen, higher damage, higher defense....WTF?

in order for my mag temp just to fkn stay alive, i have to go five heavy, sword and board offbar and DW mainbar....what? i can't use a destro staff, the damage is way too big of a loss, so i don't get to heavy attack for resources. my damage is gimed by not being able to wear LA...and even then HA gives enough Spell damage to make it roughly equal. not to mention my need for bloodspawn instead of a damage helm set

point is, stamina toons can build to be GLASS CANNONs...and i mean it, validreth, molag, hundings. theres no reason for them to put on five heavy unless they want to 1v10.

magick toons, set aside from sorcs (which even still are feeling VERY gimped due to their shields being nerfed so hard) and magblades (for the most part..still have many issues plaguing the playstyle), cannot build to be glass cannons...especially mag DK's and mag plars.

now before you stam users start wining, have you ever seen a video of a mag DK 1v1 playing? it's like watching paint peel, their damage is so weak due to the sets they are forced to wear. and magplars (while in a bit better place due to RD/dark flare) are not much more of a threat than dk's. i know that when i run across a mag toon in cyro, i do not get scared at all, i engage if the fight becomes too long, due to our *** damage, i just leave. i can't just leave when facing a stam player...cannot...my play in cyrodil has led me to do three things,

1-i don't 1v1, i can barely kill stam toons...most of the time they are noticebly newer players if i do engage. i may attack a mag NB or mag sorc...but not a temp or DK cause the fight just won't end.

2-i rolled an alt build that i play on 1/3 of my time in cyro...an malubeth/ reactive, blazing shieldplar...which is one of two things that i REALLY excell at

3-i rolled an alt build that i play on 1/3 of my time in cyro...a kagrenacs/ tranmutation BOL spamming small team healer

so realistically guys, if you main stamina, look at all the passives. compare everything...it's not fair. stam toons have best defense, best offense...only thing mag has more of is best utility and group support, hence so many large guilds running many mag toons...support....

Baconlad

seems that ZOS felt so bad for stamina at launch 2014, they started nerfing the *** out of mag, and just never stopped....

look at battlespirit:
- 5k health
- magic - ....ok...kinda worthless for a toon who's main defense is supposed to be shields (LA/ annulment)
-stam - better for them than mag due to having more resists, a long passive dodge chance ability, and VERY strong heal

- 50% nerf to shields
-magic - ....nerf to mag classes specifically. our LA DEFENSIVE TREE SKILL NERFED BY BATTLESPIRIT
-stam - nothing to see here

- 50% nerf to healing
-magic - direct nerf to an entire defensive weapon line for magick and every mag toon severely
-stam - already had dodge rolling, shuffle not effected....so lemmie get this straight...stamina's primary defense which is outright ingoring damage 20% of thetime through shuffle, and 100% of the time that they dodge roll, not effected (while magc was?)...rally nerfed, still a massive heal without Major mending. (although i think it was uneccesarry to nerf rally...stam need atleast one way to heal themselves for when they DO get hit). zos also implemented a must have heal...they balanced around battlespirit specifically for it's implementation...VERY strong heal like...stoooopid strong, aalso fire and forget, meaning that now both main stam heals are ticking away...every second, for five seconds.

"what about dodge roll cost increase nerf bacon?!" well that effects magick users MORE than you too...soo...*** off, and i have to now have atleast 16k stamina AND a melee weapon AND STAMINA POTS...just to play...so less magick than you have stamina because of this nerf...

fkn seriously...battle spirit healing/ bubbles nerfs need to go. do this, give LA the same passives you gave stamin for offense, give us a cost reduction to bubbles/ heals in our LA tree, allow 20 second long casts of annulment again, take away vigor from stamina OR take away shuffle from MA tree...one or the other has got to go. and i am on board with vigor taking shuffles spot on MA. also...in taking away those things from stamina, TAKE AWAY THAT STUPID DODGE ROLL NERF. take away the cost increase to sorc streak, but give it a dbuff for everytime it's used to drop distance for 1 meter, stackable 5 times and lasting 5-10 seconds. oh and please for the love of god fix friggin NB cloak, so sick of hearing them complain about it...and while ur at it, make ritual of rebirth effective...cause right now it sucks....at everything....

badda bing badda boom! everyone is now balanced...my magplar can wear LA again and do more damage, sorcs now do the same damage, but will be cancerous with their bubbles...(maybe take a class bubble away?) my regen will be good since i now have a reason to drop DW and go for staves. and stamina toons are now no longer living gods...ad only one nerf was needed XD!! matter of fact i BUFFED them in some areas...and whats hilarious about all of this, is that for the most part, everything was brought back to where it was about a year and a half ago! but now this time, stamina is in a much better place than they were then. and mag is happy now too XD

WIN/ WIN situation here guys

Soris

^ So much hate but i agree with all.

Omgwtfbbq321

It's simple, just give the Mages Guild this new skill:

• SoYouLikeToDodgeRollHuh?
• Cast time: Instant
• Duration: 30s
• Cost: 2500 Magcika
• All enemy players who dodge roll within 15M of you will have an Oblivion portal open up underneath them, sending them to the Vault of Umbrage where they are to roam around for the rest of entirety trying dodge RNG poison plants.

Not biased in the slightest…

MrJKurayami

I wish I could make a viable all stamina build. But there is really no comparison to the millions of mages that play this game. The fighter's guild characters cuss and spit at magicka, then I see all of them cast magicka spells in combat. You can build whatever you want in this game. But gimping yourself on purpose is idiotic.