Thread concerning Pelinal's Aptitude

michaelarryn

I have really been thinking lately of making a hybrid build and this set looks like it may fit, although it is a bit underwhelming (ZoS please give us wep and spell dmg in the 5 piece as well).

I have a few questions however concerning this set and hope some theorycrafters and testers can confirm or disprove my thinking.

#1 This set equalizes wep and spell dmg so does that also apply with buffs like major brutality?

#2 If 1 is true, then can we stack buffs? Example: Being able to reap the benefits of having both Major Sorcercy and Major Brutality active for a combined total of 40% weapon damage?

#3 People want to legitametly use hybrid builds on both PvE and PvP, maybe I won't hit the hardest but there should be more support for the SpellSwords of ESO. ZoS if you are reading this please add more support for these types of builds and possibly a set that scales ALL attacks off of max magical or stamina depending on whicheve one is the highest. I think people wouldn't discredit us mix breeds then!

xellink

AfkNinja wrote: »

3.) Any reality of Hybrids being competitive disappeared with soft caps. You can do it but it won't ever be close to optimal.

Disagree. There are many games with mechanics that allow hybrids without soft-capping.

Example 1
DND
Take for instance DnD
1) Arcane spells that buff physical damage - Bull's strength, cat's grace
2) Defensive bonuses from non-physical stats: Artful Swordplay, etc
3) Prestige classes
4) Hybrid races
5) Armors negating hybrid penalty
Initially there is some form of soft cap but its pretty much non-existent once you hit epic and prestige classes.

In DND 1-2E, you couldn't play hybrid unless you picked a Paladin or Ranger or hybrid class.
It took 30 years for DnD to evolve from a basic game to one that supports build diversity which is 3E which is so good that they had to refine it to make it 3.5E. It took another 10 years for it to be further morphed to the current state: 5E.

Example 2
Guild wars 1:
GW1 had a soft cap... but it was pretty much non-existent there were too many specialised builds that discouraged hybrid play (Ranger spike, necro spike etc... first 2 years had really bad balance).
1) Certain skills still allowed hybrid play such as: Illusion Weaponry.
2) Subclassing
3) Armor insignias (not relevant to ESO)
4) PVP centric balancing
5) Pressure, draggy, long but intelligent fights.
6) Quick revive system (2s) up to instacast mechanics
7) Spells that buff physical attacks (I can't emphasise this enough, eg Conjure Flame)

IT took about 2-3 years before balanced builds became prominent in GW1 which was PVP centric. Initially the game had balanced teams rather than balanced builds, consisting of 2 warriors, 2 monks, 2 DPS, 1 runner and 1 filler. Often the runner had to run a hybrid build because of lane split.

Example 3
DOTA
Hybrid class: Morphling: able to switch from strength to agility. Having lots of HP but no damage makes you an easily ignorable target, and having high damage but low HP makes you a glass cannon.

Almost every class in DOTA is either strength, agility or intelligence... so... Morphling is one of the few exceptions.

Example 4
If you like programming, D20 systems or play MUD games:
1) Remort system
2) varies from game-game but similar to DnD

Balance in MUD games are simpler... everything is like pen and paper. They don't have to fix things like graphics bugs so almost all resources are dedicated to number crunching. Hybrid builds did take a while as well, and considering how long it took for most players to remort... probably a few years at least.

Disadvantages of soft capping
Take for instance guild wars 2: Everyone is forced to bring a heal. Everyone is forced to play as a hybrid of sorts. Everyone is forced to have weapon slots.

Things ESO done badly:
Poor skill mechanics. No skill seem to scale off health (?damage shields?), which is a shame.
Skills that don't work well such as gap closers.
One-hand weapon/spell not implemented (?yet?)

Things ESO has done well:
1. Having 3 attributes.
2. Hybrid armor: Pelinals as a good first-step. Undaunted armor is the weaker younger brother. More will be implemented
3. Radiant ward: scales to HP
4. Dueling
5. Hybrid classes -> all classes can use weapon skills and magicka class skills. (as opposed to fighter or rogue in DnD)

Things that can be realistically implemented in ESO
1. Scale elemental weapon enchantments to magicka. Poison does not need to follow suit.
2. Implementation of type-resistances/mixed-mob dungeons, for example a mob that resists all physical damage and another that resists all elemental damage. A hybrid build will always be more consistent in this regard. A team can otherwise bring one-stam and one-magicka DPS which leads us to:
3. Lane-splitting in dungeons, forcing players to become self-sufficient.
4. Health attribute skill morphs
5. PVP centric balancing and more intelligent AI in PVE to encourage support/utility skills
6. Punishment system for non-deliberate damage/overdamage
7. Organised small scale PVP 3v3 etc.
8. Weapon magicka morphs: make it limited such as one-handed skill line.
9. Spells that buff physical stats by percentage (See DND section)
10. More armors and skills negating hybrid penalty.
11. Stat-stealing mechanics
12. Increase power of utility skills, lower damage on ALL skills. This will drag fights longer.
13. Decrease sustainability for spike damage.
14. 1-2 Non-sustainable but powerful melee magicka skills, these can work as finishers for stam/hybrid users.
15. Hybrid morph of Balance/Equilibrium -> stamina scales to magicka return, magicka scales to stamina return etc. (this one feels a bit forced)
16. Solo/small group-backdoor fort mechanics - Increased number of NPC (Alarm trigger system) according to how many player enters via the backdoor (narrow tunnel or corridor). Each NPC does AOE damage and have different resistances. Eg. NPC 1 resistant to elemental, NPC 2 resistance to physical. Collectively, when people zerg in the narrow corridor, they will face zergs of AOE NPCs.

There are many more ways that hybrid builds can be implemented while promoting diversity in ESO. Hence, I disagree with your comment which denies the fact that more can be done. ESO is a relatively young game. It took those games i named many years (DND 30 years, GW1 2-3 years) before hybrid builds became adopted. Even after that, a lot of refinements had to be made. I think the best years of ESO has yet to come...

AfkNinja

1.) Yes
2.) No, it just takes the highest and matches them. You will not get a double benefit from using Major Sorcery and Major Brutality.
3.) Any reality of Hybrids being competitive disappeared with soft caps. You can do it but it won't ever be close to optimal.

Stoopid_Nwah

If they scaled all attacks off of the highest stat, it still wouldn't help hybrid builds that much. The problem would be that as a hybrid, you would most likely be splitting your resource pools, so instead of having 44k max magicka, you would have say 30k. That's quite the huge difference in damage, without even considering how champion points would effect this as I assume those also would be split up.

I'm sorry to say it, but I just don't see hybrid builds ever really being a competitive thing, far too much would have to be reworked that I just can't imagine zos doing it (let alone doing it right lol).

Ankael07

The game have too many persentage passives that keep hybrids from being competitive.

MrTarkanian48

The other issue is Crit %. Unless it were to scale with the highest % between Weapon and Spell.

Too many problems to make them viable.

driosketch

michaelarryn wrote: »

I have really been thinking lately of making a hybrid build and this set looks like it may fit, although it is a bit underwhelming (ZoS please give us wep and spell dmg in the 5 piece as well).

I have a few questions however concerning this set and hope some theorycrafters and testers can confirm or disprove my thinking.

#1 This set equalizes wep and spell dmg so does that also apply with buffs like major brutality?

I haven't tracked them down, but there are certain buffs that take effect after the equalization. My spell and weapon damage are not equal with the set. I'll try and see which they are when I get home.