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PC EU Economy - What the actual hell?

  • Tandor
    Tandor
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    It can't possibly be market manipulation because we're constantly told that such a thing could only happen with an auction house :wink: !

  • Khenarthi
    Khenarthi
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    To OP: here's what my MM has to say (except for the potions, as I did not have any crafted):

    alloy_zpswjxwhau8.jpg

    wax_zpskdtv97ju.jpg

    rosin_zpsmf12jro0.jpg

    columb_zps0a50lqdb.jpg

    smock_zpsrtae6fia.jpg

    Prices for tempers are similar to yours (still lower); for the flowers the difference is higher, costs are much lower specially for Columbine... and on my guilds the upward trend for prices is not as noticeable at least. My advice to shop around the less-travelled markets will stand :)

    @anitajoneb17_ESO gave a very insightful answer as to why you will find higher costs now than a few months ago.
    Edited by Khenarthi on August 31, 2016 6:07PM
    PC-EU @Khenarthi - Ahnissi, Khenessi, Khenarri, Runavirr, Ihnissa, J'Zanna, Avalissa, Elinorre, Ahzor, Ahzaj, Zarrum, Jakhaj, Ahnissa, Ihnessa (all Khajiit)

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    Don't assume that high CP means I'm any good... I just quest a lot.
  • Verbalinkontinenz
    Verbalinkontinenz
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    Tandor wrote: »
    It can't possibly be market manipulation because we're constantly told that such a thing could only happen with an auction house :wink: !

    thats not what it actually is like. yes it can happen and it might happen that people try that - but it usually smoothens faster and is harder to accomplish. i recognized the columbine thing also, but i do not have the feeling, that the prices are at the moment that high as wished and i also have the feeling, that its starting to go down again. at least...this is what columbine looks in my mm right now:

    75eb9262-74426786.jpg


    @Khenarthi...heyho thanks for your cheap stuff i often buy <3
    Edited by Verbalinkontinenz on August 31, 2016 5:57PM
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  • Akrasjel
    Akrasjel
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    - supply/demand
    - no single market
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  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
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    Or..... Could just be people trying to sell materials at high prices so they can buy other high priced set items.
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  • Bosov
    Bosov
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    Xbox EU 17k for a temp. 10k a rosin and 8k for a dreug wax
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  • Ridistrin
    Ridistrin
    1.Writ change hit the prices of wax and tempers ( Thats how i feel since less ppl doing it atm)

    this and:

    2. there has been a long time where many bots could sell without bans, then there came a ban wave for bots.

    3. new dlc with many new items and new "standards" for equipment. there is atm a lack of alloys and rosin. the dlc before that had not such an impact, since there hasnt been an upgrade to cp 160 for some sets. meanwhile its also for dd's possible to use two 5x boni with full cp 160 sets.

    at the moment i didnt recognize any attempts in buying/reselling or creating a lack of items to resell it later more expensive in a "mafia" way. (golden items is what i mean. that alchemist thing i also recognized)

    _

    my 5 cent.

    There is not really a "lack" of alloys and rosins, there's still people around with several thousands of them.

    What we see at the moment is the result of a few persons trying to manipulate the market, the prices rise and the more average players are hesitant to sell if they don't need the money asap, just because the price "might rise further".

    At least, for me, it's worth again to grind for raw materials :)
  • arkansas_ESO
    arkansas_ESO
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    As long as the economy is, effectively, controlled by the most successful trading guilds, hogging the best trader sites to feed their own greed, this will not change.

    Stuff the money grabbers, we need an AH to give everyone a level playing field and bring prices down to a more reasonable level.

    Games with AHs have their economies gamed just as much as here in ESO, if not more.


    Grand Overlord 25/8/17
  • Verbalinkontinenz
    Verbalinkontinenz
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    There is not really a "lack" of alloys and rosins, there's still people around with several thousands of them.

    sure there are, but its questionable, wether each of them gained them on a "legal" way, so maybe the prices would be way higher, if the marked would be without any exploited or botted mats.
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  • Arkadius
    Arkadius
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    Ridistrin wrote: »
    1.Writ change hit the prices of wax and tempers ( Thats how i feel since less ppl doing it atm)

    this and:

    2. there has been a long time where many bots could sell without bans, then there came a ban wave for bots.

    3. new dlc with many new items and new "standards" for equipment. there is atm a lack of alloys and rosin. the dlc before that had not such an impact, since there hasnt been an upgrade to cp 160 for some sets. meanwhile its also for dd's possible to use two 5x boni with full cp 160 sets.

    at the moment i didnt recognize any attempts in buying/reselling or creating a lack of items to resell it later more expensive in a "mafia" way. (golden items is what i mean. that alchemist thing i also recognized)

    _

    my 5 cent.

    There is not really a "lack" of alloys and rosins, there's still people around with several thousands of them.

    What we see at the moment is the result of a few persons trying to manipulate the market, the prices rise and the more average players are hesitant to sell if they don't need the money asap, just because the price "might rise further".

    At least, for me, it's worth again to grind for raw materials :)

    I don't really see any manipulation here. I think it's indeed because of high demand. Everyone and their mother runs trials all day long to farm equip which needs to be improved.
  • Waseem
    Waseem
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    price has always been increasing, and it will continue to do so.
    know how to farm what you need properly to avoid buying anything from guild stores.
    look on tempering allow sellers for example today and the price they sell it for, and after one month, it'll increase by 200-300g.
    it has been like this since months and will continue like that.
    buy cheap, sell expensive
    and its done without global auction house
    PC EU

  • silvereyes
    silvereyes
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    I wouldn't worry too much about market manipulation now with crafting bags. Especially for very common drops, like alchemy mats. So many people have them hoarded - there's no longer a gold opportunity cost associated with long-term storage - it would be very hard for someone to corner that market, no matter what trade system you have in place.

    Also, the fact that the same trends are occurring on PC NA and EU as well as both consoles speaks to a more general market dynamic than a specific player, guild, or group of guilds forming a monopoly.

    Right after a DLC that changes a lot of gear, like with SoH, demand for all crafting mats - especially improvement mats for dropped sets - shoots through the roof, way outstripping the natural supply rate. Improving a new full gold set will cost you at least 72 gold tempers/resin/wax, and maybe 88 if you use 1H or Sword+board on both bars. Even those with stockpiles of these rare materials will see them quickly exhausted and be seeking more.

    Even once those that have stockpiles are done upgrading their new gear, they will still probably want to replenish their stockpiles before starting to sell again. I know that is what I'm doing right now. I've still not recovered to pre-SoH levels.

    Kuta is acting a bit weird this time around because the nodes were reworked, potency glyphs were added to the vendor, and it looks like the drop rate increased too.

    As for alchemy mats, keep in mind that poisons were just introduced 4 months ago. It took a while for the new mechanic to catch on, and we're seeing an accompanying increase in demand.

    And all of this is assuming that ZOS hasn't just played with the RNG. I do know that I'm not seeing as many Alloy as I used to, but I probably don't refine enough for my sample to be large enough to make generalizations.
  • Ridistrin
    Ridistrin
    Arkadius wrote: »
    Ridistrin wrote: »
    1.Writ change hit the prices of wax and tempers ( Thats how i feel since less ppl doing it atm)

    this and:

    2. there has been a long time where many bots could sell without bans, then there came a ban wave for bots.

    3. new dlc with many new items and new "standards" for equipment. there is atm a lack of alloys and rosin. the dlc before that had not such an impact, since there hasnt been an upgrade to cp 160 for some sets. meanwhile its also for dd's possible to use two 5x boni with full cp 160 sets.

    at the moment i didnt recognize any attempts in buying/reselling or creating a lack of items to resell it later more expensive in a "mafia" way. (golden items is what i mean. that alchemist thing i also recognized)

    _

    my 5 cent.

    There is not really a "lack" of alloys and rosins, there's still people around with several thousands of them.

    What we see at the moment is the result of a few persons trying to manipulate the market, the prices rise and the more average players are hesitant to sell if they don't need the money asap, just because the price "might rise further".

    At least, for me, it's worth again to grind for raw materials :)

    I don't really see any manipulation here. I think it's indeed because of high demand. Everyone and their mother runs trials all day long to farm equip which needs to be improved.

    If somebody is buying almost all available upgrading materials in one day, then I can clearly see the intention of market manipulation, right?
  • Verbalinkontinenz
    Verbalinkontinenz
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    Ridistrin wrote: »
    Arkadius wrote: »
    Ridistrin wrote: »
    1.Writ change hit the prices of wax and tempers ( Thats how i feel since less ppl doing it atm)

    this and:

    2. there has been a long time where many bots could sell without bans, then there came a ban wave for bots.

    3. new dlc with many new items and new "standards" for equipment. there is atm a lack of alloys and rosin. the dlc before that had not such an impact, since there hasnt been an upgrade to cp 160 for some sets. meanwhile its also for dd's possible to use two 5x boni with full cp 160 sets.

    at the moment i didnt recognize any attempts in buying/reselling or creating a lack of items to resell it later more expensive in a "mafia" way. (golden items is what i mean. that alchemist thing i also recognized)

    _

    my 5 cent.

    There is not really a "lack" of alloys and rosins, there's still people around with several thousands of them.

    What we see at the moment is the result of a few persons trying to manipulate the market, the prices rise and the more average players are hesitant to sell if they don't need the money asap, just because the price "might rise further".

    At least, for me, it's worth again to grind for raw materials :)

    I don't really see any manipulation here. I think it's indeed because of high demand. Everyone and their mother runs trials all day long to farm equip which needs to be improved.

    If somebody is buying almost all available upgrading materials in one day, then I can clearly see the intention of market manipulation, right?

    ooooh tell me more via pn ;D
    EU/PC trading guilds
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    Just Traders - Belkarth - Contact (ingame): @Verbalinkontinenz @Arkadius1 @nku
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    United Trading Enterprises hat sich umbenannt in MAFIA.
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  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Ridistrin wrote: »
    If somebody is buying almost all available upgrading materials in one day, then I can clearly see the intention of market manipulation, right?

    No. Just someone with cash wishing to make more cash by buying cheap and reselling higher. He takes risks by doing do and it's a perfect legit way of making money.

    (I would be more differentiated if we were talking about essential items IRL, like food, but we're in a game, and on top of that, everything essential in the game can be farmed. So basically there's nothing unethical in doing that).

  • Paulington
    Paulington
    Community Ambassador
    Manipulate prices for personal gain? Who would even do such a thing?

    dbd57bcbb3fff7245025a39061012200.png
    Edited by Paulington on August 31, 2016 11:50PM
  • silvereyes
    silvereyes
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    Paulington wrote: »
    Manipulate prices for person gain? Who would even do such a thing?
    Of course sellers raise prices for personal gain. Sellers *always* raise prices for personal gain when they can. That's why they are called "sellers", not "givers", lol.

  • Verbalinkontinenz
    Verbalinkontinenz
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    Paulington wrote: »
    Manipulate prices for person gain? Who would even do such a thing?

    dbd57bcbb3fff7245025a39061012200.png

    nobody knows, since it has been very subtile...
    EU/PC trading guilds
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    Just Traders - Belkarth - Contact (ingame): @Verbalinkontinenz @Arkadius1 @nku
    Bait Trading House - Elden Root - Contact (ingame): @Verbalinkontinenz @Arkadius1 @nku @Orki

    United Trading Enterprises hat sich umbenannt in MAFIA.
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  • code65536
    code65536
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    My theory is that it's all because of the readjustment of endgame PvE difficulty.
    • Everyone is regearing. Vicious, Infallible, Velidreth, etc. It's not just the top tier--I see soooooo many normal trial farm groups forming up in trade guilds these days, all with people trying to get VO or Infal.
    • Vet trials are hard now. What used to be a 8-minute roflstomp through AA for the weekly with people on alts and not really taking it that seriously is now a 30-40 minute run that requires people to actually be on a good character that they're proficient on and trying their very best. As a result, DPS matters now more than ever in the new or revamped content, and spell/weapon power potions are no longer optional luxuries--they are must-have requirements if you are to pull your weight.

    The prices of the mats for spell power potions, for example, have been fairly stable, until vMoL came out, and it started to rise, though slowly. That price increase really picked up in speed with the DB and now SotH updates, and prices are now over triple what they used to be.

    The change is content is a welcome thing. But it's placed a major strain on these sorts of consumables. ZOS really must look at revamping their alchemy system. Why is it that we can get between 3-8 mats out of a cotton plant, but just 1-2 flowers out of an alchemical plant? If alchemical nodes had the same 3-4 (6-8 with PH proc) yield as the clothier nodes, it would alleviate much of this stress and support this new content difficulty. ZOS has stated that they looked at what people are capable to doing DPS-wise when tuning the content. You can't tune content to the DPS of players running potion-builds with potion-rotations and not expect it to severely impact the potion market.
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  • covenant_merchant
    covenant_merchant
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    Khenarthi wrote: »
    I'm also on PC-EU and have not noticed these prices, but I do not shop from top vendors and my MM gives me the values from my guilds only (which are social with small/medium traders).

    The only recent change I found was the price of Kuta which plummeted to about 5500-5800 in the last few months.

    When I get home tonight I'll check the gold tempers' average sale figure and post it here. In the meantime, have you checked the "lesser" trading hubs like Marbruk and Baandari Trading Post (Greenshade and Malabal Tor, respectively)? Or Sentinel (Alik'r)?

    Thing is, most people visit these traders, buy at low price and resell in their own respective trading guilds in Rawl'Ka, Craglorn, Deeshan etc. Most of my friends do that too, and tbf I have no luck in this game. Whenever I visit, there's nothing worth buying left. Just imagine waking up at 6PM and visiting a convenience store by the end of Black Friday. That's the same gut-wrenching feeling of despair that I get whenever I try to sucessfully master the art of trading in this game. Which is a bit disheartening for an Economics major.

    As for the over-the-top prices for the alchemy mats in my screen, I'm in TTG and TTM for those who know on PC EU. And that's where the pricing magic happens.
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  • altemriel
    altemriel
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    kasa-obake wrote: »
    If you have been playing on PC EU server this past month, you may have noticed the prices for most refining and alchemy materials have substantially increased, as in 12k tempering alloys, 8k dreugh wax, 5k rosins, 600g/columbine... Maybe it's because I'm bored and waiting for my degree courses to start, maybe it's because I'm depressed that a poor scrub like me can't afford to upgrade vDSA weapons, or maybe it's scientific curiosity, but I'm genuinely wondering: what the hell?

    Why did the prices increase so much? What the invisible hand of the PC EU eso market? In layman's terms, who is responsible for that inflation?

    Or did all the intensive farmers quit the game in an organised yet unpredictable fashion? Did the farming bots become sentient and rebelled against their masters, thus screwing their farming routes? While I get that the prices for these goods usually increase with the release of new DLCs aka new armors to upgrade etc. why haven't they dropped down? And what about alchemy mats? Their price isn't correlated with the release of new content. We were in August. If anything, the game should be more populated than at any other given period, implying more farmers. And yet, there's a shortage.

    Unless it's not a shortage, and somebody is buying every single reasonably priced good to resell at higher value. Then give me a scapegoat! Somebody to blame for my epic quality weapons and the general state of the eso economy. I'm triggered everytime I glance at my characters; instead of seeing bright, golden staves and swords, glinting and gleaming like elusive sunlight rays on a beautiful summer afternoon, I see purple and outright tear-worthy gear, only reminiscent of the most depressing color of the rainbow and Barney the Dinosaur, which scares me even more than clowns do.

    Here are some MM screenshots to illustrate my point. Pay no attention to the cow behind the curtain.
    Screenshot_20160831_130141.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130147.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130151.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130158.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130204.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130235.png




    well I believe it is because of an increased demand. tempers because the thing was introduced lately, that if you are above level 50, you can already wear cp160 gear, so everyone wanted to upgrade their gear, and also improve it of course.

    the alchemy reagents, poisons were introduced also lately, and you can use the herbs for making poisons too, so increased demand makes increased price

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  • idk
    idk
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    Dem tempers mafia

    Lol.

    But seriously, trials became challenging again. Purple gear was fine before for most of the trials but now more are going for the extra juice gold upgrading offers. It's also why alchemy has increased, that ans our regen has been nerfed.
    Really, idk
  • silvereyes
    silvereyes
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    kasa-obake wrote: »
    Thing is, most people visit these traders, buy at low price and resell in their own respective trading guilds in Rawl'Ka, Craglorn, Deeshan etc. Most of my friends do that too, and tbf I have no luck in this game. Whenever I visit, there's nothing worth buying left.
    In my opinion, flipping just isn't worth my time. I'd rather spend the time farming or leveling an alt's crafting for the hireling mats. There are deals out there flipping, to be sure, and some of them can be quite profitable. But it's all just luck, and I'd much prefer to spend 1/4 the time farming for 100% profit and have the other 3/4 of the time to play the actual game.

    I don't even look for good deals while I'm shopping for something else specific, because it slows down the process too much.
  • acw37162
    acw37162
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    Can't speak for alchemy but tempering materials had their drop rate tuned down since the update on PS4.

    On pS4 anyway writs drop them less and I went a very large refining spree last week over seven hours and raw material when the dust settled and math fell out gold tempers drop was 3.6%.
  • covenant_merchant
    covenant_merchant
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    acw37162 wrote: »
    Can't speak for alchemy but tempering materials had their drop rate tuned down since the update on PS4.

    On pS4 anyway writs drop them less and I went a very large refining spree last week over seven hours and raw material when the dust settled and math fell out gold tempers drop was 3.6%.

    Yeah I feel like the drop rates are lower than what they used to be. Maybe it's just an impression though. Nonetheless, it will be even worse with One Tamriel given that everyone will be farming in the same zones. Unless ZOS will implement a way to circumvent this.
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  • benjamino613
    benjamino613
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    Pibbles wrote: »
    kasa-obake wrote: »
    If you have been playing on PC EU server this past month, you may have noticed the prices for most refining and alchemy materials have substantially increased, as in 12k tempering alloys, 8k dreugh wax, 5k rosins, 600g/columbine...

    Why did the prices increase so much? What the invisible hand of the PC EU eso market? In layman's terms, who is responsible for that inflation?

    I blame Brexit.

    Voted best comment thread of the year.
  • PurifedBladez
    PurifedBladez
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    kasa-obake wrote: »
    If you have been playing on PC EU server this past month, you may have noticed the prices for most refining and alchemy materials have substantially increased, as in 12k tempering alloys, 8k dreugh wax, 5k rosins, 600g/columbine... Maybe it's because I'm bored and waiting for my degree courses to start, maybe it's because I'm depressed that a poor scrub like me can't afford to upgrade vDSA weapons, or maybe it's scientific curiosity, but I'm genuinely wondering: what the hell?

    Why did the prices increase so much? What the invisible hand of the PC EU eso market? In layman's terms, who is responsible for that inflation?

    Or did all the intensive farmers quit the game in an organised yet unpredictable fashion? Did the farming bots become sentient and rebelled against their masters, thus screwing their farming routes? While I get that the prices for these goods usually increase with the release of new DLCs aka new armors to upgrade etc. why haven't they dropped down? And what about alchemy mats? Their price isn't correlated with the release of new content. We were in August. If anything, the game should be more populated than at any other given period, implying more farmers. And yet, there's a shortage.

    Unless it's not a shortage, and somebody is buying every single reasonably priced good to resell at higher value. Then give me a scapegoat! Somebody to blame for my epic quality weapons and the general state of the eso economy. I'm triggered everytime I glance at my characters; instead of seeing bright, golden staves and swords, glinting and gleaming like elusive sunlight rays on a beautiful summer afternoon, I see purple and outright tear-worthy gear, only reminiscent of the most depressing color of the rainbow and Barney the Dinosaur, which scares me even more than clowns do.

    Here are some MM screenshots to illustrate my point. Pay no attention to the cow behind the curtain.
    Screenshot_20160831_130141.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130147.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130151.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130158.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130204.png

    Screenshot_20160831_130235.png


    That's cheap.. compared to XB1 na.
    Edited by PurifedBladez on August 31, 2016 11:37PM
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