stamsorc vs stamblade

barbarian340

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each for pve, mostly solo? Basically, which do u prefer in that circumstance, and why?

juhasman

Stam sorc definietly have better survivality but nb have better dmg in solo play. Stam sorc have class version of rally so he is independent from 2h in but nb have class gap closer and execute so he is independet from skill lines that have those 2.

Asardes

juhasman wrote: »

Stam sorc definietly have better survivality but nb have better dmg in solo play. Stam sorc have class version of rally so he is independent from 2h in but nb have class gap closer and execute so he is independet from skill lines that have those 2.

Not exactly. While surge provides self heal and major brutality, the self heals are dependent of critically hitting an enemy. While there isn't one around or you don't score a critical, you don't heal. Nightblades can use Siphoning skills to get some health (swallow soul), magicka and stamina back (siphoning attacks). But sorcs have better protection wards (hurricane, bound armaments) and shield (hardened ward) while nightblades have only mirage for a combination of protection and evasion as well as invisibility. Sorcerers have group CC/snare (restraining prison) but no fear (mass hysteria).

So stamina builds of both classes are comparable and complementary, with the observation that nightblades are a bit more dependent on magicka.

juhasman

Asardes wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Stam sorc definietly have better survivality but nb have better dmg in solo play. Stam sorc have class version of rally so he is independent from 2h in but nb have class gap closer and execute so he is independet from skill lines that have those 2.

Not exactly. While surge provides self heal and major brutality, the self heals are dependent of critically hitting an enemy. While there isn't one around or you don't score a critical, you don't heal. Nightblades can use Siphoning skills to get some health (swallow soul), magicka and stamina back (siphoning attacks). But sorcs have better protection wards (hurricane, bound armaments) and shield (hardened ward) while nightblades have only mirage for a combination of protection and evasion as well as invisibility. Sorcerers have group CC/snare (restraining prison) but no fear (mass hysteria).

So stamina builds of both classes are comparable and complementary, with the observation that nightblades are a bit more dependent on magicka.

So many wrong informations. You do realize we are talking here about stam builds? most of the skills You mentioned are highly magicka based and on stam builds will do nothing. Swallow sould heals for nothing hardened ward gives barely visible shield on Your hp bar. Sorc can get hp and stamina back using dark exchange so it's heal outside of fight and amount of stamina You get back allows You to have full stamina bar in 4 seconds after totally going to 0 stamina. Running with dual wield ad hurricane on with current high crit meta makes You 100% sure on stam sorc You'll be healer each second and if there isnt enemie around why You would need to heal Yourself?. You can run with stam sorc on vMA without vigor and rally and dont die that's how powerfull that self heal is. Restaining prison is bad choice (due to cost and few other factors) for stam sorc better is rune cage. Both classes have acces to major and minor resists sorc via hurricane and bound armor nb via shadow skill line passive and mirage. Nb can rely more on magicka skills but also can restore magicka with each light attack so it equals the deal. About group cc 1 good placed negate can do better job then spammed fear , also low cost of DB of smithing allows stam sorc to use this ulti as group cc.

Autolycus

Stamblades have a marginally higher dps potential, but less survivability. There are mechanics in veteran trials that will 1shot stamDKs and stamblades who aren't blocking/dodging/etc. at the appropriate time. Stam sorcs have 100% uptime on Major and Minor Ward and Resolve, plus significant self-healing potential. Stamblades also have significantly better execute damage and burst potential, whereas Stam sorcs are best suited for endurance battles (and have great sustain too, although stamblades can typically sustain with siphoning attacks and not give it another thought). The rotations are actually quite similar for both classes in their respective metas, but there are some key differences that play mostly upon passives and available buffs. For example, a stamblade can have 100% uptime on Minor Berserk, whereas a stam sorc will only have this if their healer provides it. But on the other hand, most stamblades are not utilizing their Shadow Barrier passives in a trial setting (with some exceptions), so they are more likely to die, assuming the player did not (or could not) avoid or mitigate it in time.

Jar_Ek

The differences play out as follows:
Stamsorc can self heal whilst maintaining the offensive more easily as critical surge provides a long duration buff with healing cooked in from all damage criticals (so it triggers off DoT crits, channel crits, direct damage crits) once per second.
Stamsorcs are weapon platforms in that they have no class attack abilities, but have decent utilities in bound armaments, hurricane and dark deal. They are thus reliant on weapons for damage.
Stamsorc passives are now pretty good, but work best with physical damage (esp fast/multiple physical dots to trigger implosion), and enforce some skill limitations to get important passives (ie double bar bound armaments to get stam regen buff).
You can thus build for high survivability (inc hvy armour builds), or high damage with decent survivability. Although you can build for burst, esp in execute phase it is mostly weapon based. Stamsorcs weakness is that it has no real "oh sh#t" button (heal morph of negate being the closest as dark deal requires some setup) or true escape (bolt escape frankly doesn't escape anything).

Stamblades have a more offensive toolkit in suprise attack, ambush, incap strike (hard hitting cheap ult) and alot of buffs and debuffs (fracture, berserk, empower, etc), but less survivability - vigour / rally and mirage (stamsorcs can use shuffle for evasion), plus cloak (which has alot of counters).
Stamblades have good class attacks and utilities, including siphon and a few "oh sh#t" / escape options in fear, veil, cloak and shadow image (the teleport back one darned if I can recall the name). Stamblades can work with all weapon types but to get the brutality buff they need to go 2h/dw or pots (and not all means are ideal from stealth)
Stamblade passives are decent.
Stamblades excel at burst (making excellent gank builds) and can have high survivability in a skilled players hands.
The biggest weakness is that stamblades probably have a higher skill requirement if you want survivability - esp as most people build pure stamina+wpn damage NBs (which means high vigour ticks so it's still got survivability, esp with dodge rolls).

Asmael

Mostly solo? That means only open world, vMA and public dungeons.

My pick would be stamina sorc for less experienced players. Use Critical surge, Hurricane, Boundless Armaments on both bars, and you have constant healing and (relative) tankiness while still dealing AoE damage. Stamina sorc is very simple to play, even for vMA. Add Bloodthirst (from DW skill line) and Resolving Vigor, and you can virtually heal yourself to full every 2 seconds.

Stamina nightblade has a slightly higher DPS potential, thanks to specific critical oriented passives, and a potential 100% uptime on Minor Berzerk, but have a more sporadic access to Major Resolve / Ward, which make them more squishy.

TL;DR: Both work, but stamina sorcerers is probably much easier to play in your case.

@Jar_Ek would be very valid points, if not for the fact that OP stated:

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each for pve, mostly solo?

Gank builds, Ambush and Cloak in PvE... Not exactly the best

Jar_Ek

@Asmael Whoops my bad. Well it never hurts to know these things I guess?
Anyway to answer the OPs question -stamsorc atm... it is less hassle and levelling up you can use a pet to help until you get surge.

Stannum

For PvE stam builds
NB is better for boss DPS
Sorc is better for trash mobs clearning (streak and encase synergies with nado and cloak)

ADarklore

I'm really surprised more people haven't suggested StamSorc which INCLUDES a tank pet that can draw aggro away from you and you can (Bow) attack from range helping survivability. Plus, the pet can HEAL you if necessary, along with access to Overload Ultimate... I have Hurricane, Matriarch, Clannfear, Crit Surge and Evil Hunter on Overload bar... but I rarely have to use that Ultimate even against Group bosses. Typically, against Group bosses I use Clannfear to draw aggro why I Wrecking Blow the boss to death after popping Rally AND Critcal Surge.

Asardes

Pet takes one slot on both bars or it will be unsummoned when you change. The heal from clannfear is fixed at 35% of your health and 3600 Magicka cost is not that bad. Dark conversion is slightly cheaper.

Jar_Ek

The problem is the clannfear damage scales with max magicka, the heal cost is bugged (it costs alot more than 3.6k), CPs don't affect it, and you have much greater problems keeping it alive as you won't be using a ward (and don't know your pet's health). It's great for levelling, but it's utility really tails off once you get in post 50 game.
Overload is a decent ultimate but the CP scaling isn't perfect. I tend to prefer DB or the heal morph of negate tbh... the overload bar swap is far too clunky for my tastes.

Izaki

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

For PvE stam builds
NB is better for boss DPS
Sorc is better for trash mobs clearning (streak and encase synergies with nado and cloak)

You sure about NBs doing more DPS on bosses than stam sorcs? From what i've seen stam sorcs are the second best DPS after stam DKs in pretty much any situation.

susmitds

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

For PvE stam builds
NB is better for boss DPS
Sorc is better for trash mobs clearning (streak and encase synergies with nado and cloak)

You sure about NBs doing more DPS on bosses than stam sorcs? From what i've seen stam sorcs are the second best DPS after stam DKs in pretty much any situation.

Nope StamNBs are the current top DPS. Check Gilliam's post on it (you can get like 54K DPS on stamina NBs, compared to 52K on sorcs). And he is right, stamsorcs are slightly better for trash. But yeah, stamina nightblades are way harder to play.

SunBro

I main stamsorc and it has great survivability and dps. Since you asked what's best for solo PVE I'd say stamsorc as it has better resource management (dark deal) and constant heals (crit surge+hurricane, blood craze, bloodthirst, vigor) with the right set/mundus you should constantly score crits procing crit surge heal. I solo vet dungeon bosses on mine and VMA is rather easy as well (consistently around 500k score). Nightblade is fun and maybe more dps in a group setting and is a good solo ganker in PVP but that's not what you asked

exeeter702

Asardes wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Stam sorc definietly have better survivality but nb have better dmg in solo play. Stam sorc have class version of rally so he is independent from 2h in but nb have class gap closer and execute so he is independet from skill lines that have those 2.

Not exactly. While surge provides self heal and major brutality, the self heals are dependent of critically hitting an enemy. While there isn't one around or you don't score a critical, you don't heal. Nightblades can use Siphoning skills to get some health (swallow soul), magicka and stamina back (siphoning attacks). But sorcs have better protection wards (hurricane, bound armaments) and shield (hardened ward) while nightblades have only mirage for a combination of protection and evasion as well as invisibility. Sorcerers have group CC/snare (restraining prison) but no fear (mass hysteria).

So stamina builds of both classes are comparable and complementary, with the observation that nightblades are a bit more dependent on magicka.

You are indeed wrong on multiple fronts. First it is exactly as he said. As far as major brut goes, the stam sorc is not beholden to rally or flying blade. And likewise, the nb is not beholden to any gap closers or executes from 2h skill line. How they function is unique but that is a seperate issue.

NB have access via their class, to the major protections just as stam sorcs do.....

Sorc prison is equal almost entirely to the nbs agony, ie they both fall into the unique extra long single target CC.

Nb has aoe fear, sorc has aoe root. Nb has siphoning, sorc has dark deal.

Nb are not beholden to shuffle for major evasion stam sorcs are.

Both have access to major evasion via defensive morphs. Stam gets minor evasion, nb gets major evasion tied to aoe damage.

FeaR Turbo

barbarian340 wrote: »

What are the advantages and disadvantages of each for pve, mostly solo? Basically, which do u prefer in that circumstance, and why?

sorc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUvD13MNsEU

NB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqtJBe-AxOk