Problems with the Shadows Of The Hist dungeons

Tonnopesce

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I agree that the two dungeons are pretty hard but not so extreme as people want to picture them.

Sunday when COS was on rotation for the gold pledge i've decided to go pug since none of my guildies wanted to do it,
there was a stamina sorcerer equipped with pvp gear(500 cp), a quite good stamina NB (531 cp) , a noob templar healer (240CP) and myself with my DK tank ( note the healer and the sorcerer where in COS for the first time)

While i've carried the group tru the dungeon for the most part without the need to explain nothing, there is the second BOSS ( fourth considering the minibosses) that have some nasty mechanics expecially the "one shot the tank" that cannot be avoided.
It took us tree try to kill him but it was a good result for a pug ( since they where not able to understand the adds/orbs part i've decided to give them a free achievement ).

Even Velidreth took us a while probably 6 try ( and several minutes of me explaining how to do it) but in the end we have done it not hard mode.

The dungeons are NEW not everyone want to check the pros (like @Alcast ) who make good videos explaining HOW to do things in the game , but everyone want to faceroll tru everything .

After 3 wipes on Velidreth the healer started to talk *** about the instance and that a nerf is needed and i simply told him ,that you cannot pretend that every instance in the game can be done at the first try, and maybe if he follows the mechanics instead of pretend to have an easy mode we can do it .

STOP COMPLAINING .

"Stop complaining."

I will not silence myself. I dont care what your healer said or did or under what conditions he said and did them. I will not silence my complaints based on my experiences and I suggest no one in this thread do so either.

I'm sorry to hear that but complain for something that is two weeks old ( while vet hard mode MOL took 5 months to complete) is just childish and clearly a L2P issue.
First time i've dove vet COS i was with some guildmates in ts and we facerolled the dungeon with only 1 full group dead till Velidreth that killed us tree times, this is not what i call a HARD INSTANCE.

Join a guild with ts and you will faceroll the dungeon.

Doctordarkspawn

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I agree that the two dungeons are pretty hard but not so extreme as people want to picture them.

Sunday when COS was on rotation for the gold pledge i've decided to go pug since none of my guildies wanted to do it,
there was a stamina sorcerer equipped with pvp gear(500 cp), a quite good stamina NB (531 cp) , a noob templar healer (240CP) and myself with my DK tank ( note the healer and the sorcerer where in COS for the first time)

While i've carried the group tru the dungeon for the most part without the need to explain nothing, there is the second BOSS ( fourth considering the minibosses) that have some nasty mechanics expecially the "one shot the tank" that cannot be avoided.
It took us tree try to kill him but it was a good result for a pug ( since they where not able to understand the adds/orbs part i've decided to give them a free achievement ).

Even Velidreth took us a while probably 6 try ( and several minutes of me explaining how to do it) but in the end we have done it not hard mode.

The dungeons are NEW not everyone want to check the pros (like @Alcast ) who make good videos explaining HOW to do things in the game , but everyone want to faceroll tru everything .

After 3 wipes on Velidreth the healer started to talk *** about the instance and that a nerf is needed and i simply told him ,that you cannot pretend that every instance in the game can be done at the first try, and maybe if he follows the mechanics instead of pretend to have an easy mode we can do it .

STOP COMPLAINING .

"Stop complaining."

I will not silence myself. I dont care what your healer said or did or under what conditions he said and did them. I will not silence my complaints based on my experiences and I suggest no one in this thread do so either.

I'm sorry to hear that but complain for something that is two weeks old ( while vet hard mode MOL took 5 months to complete) is just childish and clearly a L2P issue.
First time i've dove vet COS i was with some guildmates in ts and we facerolled the dungeon with only 1 full group dead till Velidreth that killed us tree times, this is not what i call a HARD INSTANCE.

Join a guild with ts and you will faceroll the dungeon.

If you read the original post, you'll know I did run with TS. And we didn't faceroll it. So. Dont know what a guild is supposed to do, do the chances of geting absolutely insane DPS get higher with a guild?

That was sarcasm, I know they do, but the point remains man. Read the OP.

Tonnopesce

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

It would be nice if people didn't come in here asking why we want to be pandered to like that one guy who allways goes 'why use a controller' on every controller support thread in existance.

Actually if you use the controller during the Velidreth fight everything is a lot easier, since it vibrates wen you have to do something...

Doctordarkspawn

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

It would be nice if people didn't come in here asking why we want to be pandered to like that one guy who allways goes 'why use a controller' on every controller support thread in existance.

Actually if you use the controller during the Velidreth fight everything is a lot easier, since it vibrates wen you have to do something...

IKR?

Tonnopesce

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I agree that the two dungeons are pretty hard but not so extreme as people want to picture them.

Sunday when COS was on rotation for the gold pledge i've decided to go pug since none of my guildies wanted to do it,
there was a stamina sorcerer equipped with pvp gear(500 cp), a quite good stamina NB (531 cp) , a noob templar healer (240CP) and myself with my DK tank ( note the healer and the sorcerer where in COS for the first time)

While i've carried the group tru the dungeon for the most part without the need to explain nothing, there is the second BOSS ( fourth considering the minibosses) that have some nasty mechanics expecially the "one shot the tank" that cannot be avoided.
It took us tree try to kill him but it was a good result for a pug ( since they where not able to understand the adds/orbs part i've decided to give them a free achievement ).

Even Velidreth took us a while probably 6 try ( and several minutes of me explaining how to do it) but in the end we have done it not hard mode.

The dungeons are NEW not everyone want to check the pros (like @Alcast ) who make good videos explaining HOW to do things in the game , but everyone want to faceroll tru everything .

After 3 wipes on Velidreth the healer started to talk *** about the instance and that a nerf is needed and i simply told him ,that you cannot pretend that every instance in the game can be done at the first try, and maybe if he follows the mechanics instead of pretend to have an easy mode we can do it .

STOP COMPLAINING .

"Stop complaining."

I will not silence myself. I dont care what your healer said or did or under what conditions he said and did them. I will not silence my complaints based on my experiences and I suggest no one in this thread do so either.

I'm sorry to hear that but complain for something that is two weeks old ( while vet hard mode MOL took 5 months to complete) is just childish and clearly a L2P issue.
First time i've dove vet COS i was with some guildmates in ts and we facerolled the dungeon with only 1 full group dead till Velidreth that killed us tree times, this is not what i call a HARD INSTANCE.

Join a guild with ts and you will faceroll the dungeon.

If you read the original post, you'll know I did run with TS. And we didn't faceroll it. So. Dont know what a guild is supposed to do, do the chances of geting absolutely insane DPS get higher with a guild?

That was sarcasm, I know they do, but the point remains man. Read the OP.

Ok so you are complaining because you are not good enough to do the hard mode....
Again Vet hard mode MOL has been done ONLY by 1 group and after 5 months i fail to see your point.

I know my limits and i know i will never be able to do Vet MSA and Vet MOL , is my problem not an instance problem.

Doctordarkspawn

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I agree that the two dungeons are pretty hard but not so extreme as people want to picture them.

Sunday when COS was on rotation for the gold pledge i've decided to go pug since none of my guildies wanted to do it,
there was a stamina sorcerer equipped with pvp gear(500 cp), a quite good stamina NB (531 cp) , a noob templar healer (240CP) and myself with my DK tank ( note the healer and the sorcerer where in COS for the first time)

While i've carried the group tru the dungeon for the most part without the need to explain nothing, there is the second BOSS ( fourth considering the minibosses) that have some nasty mechanics expecially the "one shot the tank" that cannot be avoided.
It took us tree try to kill him but it was a good result for a pug ( since they where not able to understand the adds/orbs part i've decided to give them a free achievement ).

Even Velidreth took us a while probably 6 try ( and several minutes of me explaining how to do it) but in the end we have done it not hard mode.

The dungeons are NEW not everyone want to check the pros (like @Alcast ) who make good videos explaining HOW to do things in the game , but everyone want to faceroll tru everything .

After 3 wipes on Velidreth the healer started to talk *** about the instance and that a nerf is needed and i simply told him ,that you cannot pretend that every instance in the game can be done at the first try, and maybe if he follows the mechanics instead of pretend to have an easy mode we can do it .

STOP COMPLAINING .

"Stop complaining."

I will not silence myself. I dont care what your healer said or did or under what conditions he said and did them. I will not silence my complaints based on my experiences and I suggest no one in this thread do so either.

I'm sorry to hear that but complain for something that is two weeks old ( while vet hard mode MOL took 5 months to complete) is just childish and clearly a L2P issue.
First time i've dove vet COS i was with some guildmates in ts and we facerolled the dungeon with only 1 full group dead till Velidreth that killed us tree times, this is not what i call a HARD INSTANCE.

Join a guild with ts and you will faceroll the dungeon.

If you read the original post, you'll know I did run with TS. And we didn't faceroll it. So. Dont know what a guild is supposed to do, do the chances of geting absolutely insane DPS get higher with a guild?

That was sarcasm, I know they do, but the point remains man. Read the OP.

Ok so you are complaining because you are not good enough to do the hard mode....
Again Vet hard mode MOL has been done ONLY by 1 group and after 5 months i fail to see your point.

I know my limits and i know i will never be able to do Vet MSA and Vet MOL , is my problem not an instance problem.

"Complaining because you are not good enough to do the hard mode."

I play a tank. S'not my job to DPS, and what DPS I do is reallllly realllllllly baaaaaaaad. So. Whether or not we can fight against the clock is really the DPS's problem.

As for my point...It's funny that you mention Vet Maw, because Vet Maw meets all the checkmarks for difficulty content.

It's a trail, meaning you know what you signed up for.

It was advertised as the most difficult trial in the game.

Statements about it's difficulty from the devs circulated before TG even released.

Shadows of the hists dungeons failed to meet any of these. Their dungeons so the audience for them isn't nearly as big, they werrent advertised like really hard dungeons using wording like "It will test you to your physical limits!" Or "These dungeons will be the ultimate test of strength!" Or anything else conducive to communicating these dungeons are harder. In fact, most of us were wondering -what- approach to the difficulty they would take, how it would be done, who this was for, and so on.

My point is if you design content to pander to hardcore players, and it is designed as people have said in this thread, it wasn't designed to be pug friendly, it was designed to be *** hard, and you dont -market it like that-, either nerf it or get ready to hand out refunds. (Or do any of the other proposed solutions people have given in this thread.)

Beyond that, if you cant see my point it's because you dont want to.

Khairiah

Im just wondering here.. Dont you have addons on PC for when you have to do certain stuff? Im asking coz I honestly dont know. (Again, im on PS4)

Doctordarkspawn

Khairiah wrote: »

Im just wondering here.. Dont you have addons on PC for when you have to do certain stuff? Im asking coz I honestly dont know. (Again, im on PS4)

Certain stuff like what?

Tonnopesce

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I agree that the two dungeons are pretty hard but not so extreme as people want to picture them.

Sunday when COS was on rotation for the gold pledge i've decided to go pug since none of my guildies wanted to do it,
there was a stamina sorcerer equipped with pvp gear(500 cp), a quite good stamina NB (531 cp) , a noob templar healer (240CP) and myself with my DK tank ( note the healer and the sorcerer where in COS for the first time)

While i've carried the group tru the dungeon for the most part without the need to explain nothing, there is the second BOSS ( fourth considering the minibosses) that have some nasty mechanics expecially the "one shot the tank" that cannot be avoided.
It took us tree try to kill him but it was a good result for a pug ( since they where not able to understand the adds/orbs part i've decided to give them a free achievement ).

Even Velidreth took us a while probably 6 try ( and several minutes of me explaining how to do it) but in the end we have done it not hard mode.

The dungeons are NEW not everyone want to check the pros (like @Alcast ) who make good videos explaining HOW to do things in the game , but everyone want to faceroll tru everything .

After 3 wipes on Velidreth the healer started to talk *** about the instance and that a nerf is needed and i simply told him ,that you cannot pretend that every instance in the game can be done at the first try, and maybe if he follows the mechanics instead of pretend to have an easy mode we can do it .

STOP COMPLAINING .

"Stop complaining."

I will not silence myself. I dont care what your healer said or did or under what conditions he said and did them. I will not silence my complaints based on my experiences and I suggest no one in this thread do so either.

I'm sorry to hear that but complain for something that is two weeks old ( while vet hard mode MOL took 5 months to complete) is just childish and clearly a L2P issue.
First time i've dove vet COS i was with some guildmates in ts and we facerolled the dungeon with only 1 full group dead till Velidreth that killed us tree times, this is not what i call a HARD INSTANCE.

Join a guild with ts and you will faceroll the dungeon.

If you read the original post, you'll know I did run with TS. And we didn't faceroll it. So. Dont know what a guild is supposed to do, do the chances of geting absolutely insane DPS get higher with a guild?

That was sarcasm, I know they do, but the point remains man. Read the OP.

Ok so you are complaining because you are not good enough to do the hard mode....
Again Vet hard mode MOL has been done ONLY by 1 group and after 5 months i fail to see your point.

I know my limits and i know i will never be able to do Vet MSA and Vet MOL , is my problem not an instance problem.

"Complaining because you are not good enough to do the hard mode."

I play a tank. S'not my job to DPS, and what DPS I do is reallllly realllllllly baaaaaaaad. So. Whether or not we can fight against the clock is really the DPS's problem.

As for my point...It's funny that you mention Vet Maw, because Vet Maw meets all the checkmarks for difficulty content.

It's a trail, meaning you know what you signed up for.

It was advertised as the most difficult trial in the game.

Statements about it's difficulty from the devs circulated before TG even released.

Shadows of the hists dungeons failed to meet any of these. Their dungeons so the audience for them isn't nearly as big, they werrent advertised like really hard dungeons using wording like "It will test you to your physical limits!" Or "These dungeons will be the ultimate test of strength!" Or anything else conducive to communicating these dungeons are harder.

My point is if you design content to pander to hardcore players, and it is designed as people have said in this thread, it wasn't designed to be pug friendly, it was designed to be *** hard, and you dont -market it like that-, either nerf it or get ready to hand out refunds. (Or do any of the other proposed solutions people have given in this thread.)

Beyond that, if you cant see my point it's because you dont want to.

Ok you will have a point IF you where complaining about Vet dungeons, and you are right these dungeons where not advertised as a over 9000 instance ( in fact they are not super hard vet IC is still harder than the new dungeons, even after the nerf).
You are complaining about the HARD MODE version, something MADE to challenge players... plz

Doctordarkspawn

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

I agree that the two dungeons are pretty hard but not so extreme as people want to picture them.

Sunday when COS was on rotation for the gold pledge i've decided to go pug since none of my guildies wanted to do it,
there was a stamina sorcerer equipped with pvp gear(500 cp), a quite good stamina NB (531 cp) , a noob templar healer (240CP) and myself with my DK tank ( note the healer and the sorcerer where in COS for the first time)

While i've carried the group tru the dungeon for the most part without the need to explain nothing, there is the second BOSS ( fourth considering the minibosses) that have some nasty mechanics expecially the "one shot the tank" that cannot be avoided.
It took us tree try to kill him but it was a good result for a pug ( since they where not able to understand the adds/orbs part i've decided to give them a free achievement ).

Even Velidreth took us a while probably 6 try ( and several minutes of me explaining how to do it) but in the end we have done it not hard mode.

The dungeons are NEW not everyone want to check the pros (like @Alcast ) who make good videos explaining HOW to do things in the game , but everyone want to faceroll tru everything .

After 3 wipes on Velidreth the healer started to talk *** about the instance and that a nerf is needed and i simply told him ,that you cannot pretend that every instance in the game can be done at the first try, and maybe if he follows the mechanics instead of pretend to have an easy mode we can do it .

STOP COMPLAINING .

"Stop complaining."

I will not silence myself. I dont care what your healer said or did or under what conditions he said and did them. I will not silence my complaints based on my experiences and I suggest no one in this thread do so either.

I'm sorry to hear that but complain for something that is two weeks old ( while vet hard mode MOL took 5 months to complete) is just childish and clearly a L2P issue.
First time i've dove vet COS i was with some guildmates in ts and we facerolled the dungeon with only 1 full group dead till Velidreth that killed us tree times, this is not what i call a HARD INSTANCE.

Join a guild with ts and you will faceroll the dungeon.

If you read the original post, you'll know I did run with TS. And we didn't faceroll it. So. Dont know what a guild is supposed to do, do the chances of geting absolutely insane DPS get higher with a guild?

That was sarcasm, I know they do, but the point remains man. Read the OP.

Ok so you are complaining because you are not good enough to do the hard mode....
Again Vet hard mode MOL has been done ONLY by 1 group and after 5 months i fail to see your point.

I know my limits and i know i will never be able to do Vet MSA and Vet MOL , is my problem not an instance problem.

"Complaining because you are not good enough to do the hard mode."

I play a tank. S'not my job to DPS, and what DPS I do is reallllly realllllllly baaaaaaaad. So. Whether or not we can fight against the clock is really the DPS's problem.

As for my point...It's funny that you mention Vet Maw, because Vet Maw meets all the checkmarks for difficulty content.

It's a trail, meaning you know what you signed up for.

It was advertised as the most difficult trial in the game.

Statements about it's difficulty from the devs circulated before TG even released.

Shadows of the hists dungeons failed to meet any of these. Their dungeons so the audience for them isn't nearly as big, they werrent advertised like really hard dungeons using wording like "It will test you to your physical limits!" Or "These dungeons will be the ultimate test of strength!" Or anything else conducive to communicating these dungeons are harder.

My point is if you design content to pander to hardcore players, and it is designed as people have said in this thread, it wasn't designed to be pug friendly, it was designed to be *** hard, and you dont -market it like that-, either nerf it or get ready to hand out refunds. (Or do any of the other proposed solutions people have given in this thread.)

Beyond that, if you cant see my point it's because you dont want to.

Ok you will have a point IF you where complaining about Vet dungeons, and you are right these dungeons where not advertised as a over 9000 instance ( in fact they are not super hard vet IC is still harder than the new dungeons, even after the nerf).
You are complaining about the HARD MODE version, something MADE to challenge players... plz

...Welp. I tried.

Khairiah

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Khairiah wrote: »

Im just wondering here.. Dont you have addons on PC for when you have to do certain stuff? Im asking coz I honestly dont know. (Again, im on PS4)

Certain stuff like what?

Like stuff popping up when ur supposed to block/dodge etc..

Doctordarkspawn

Khairiah wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Khairiah wrote: »

Im just wondering here.. Dont you have addons on PC for when you have to do certain stuff? Im asking coz I honestly dont know. (Again, im on PS4)

Certain stuff like what?

Like stuff popping up when ur supposed to block/dodge etc..

There are a few, but their shakily built at best and too basic to fit realistic needs at worst.

Khairiah

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Khairiah wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Khairiah wrote: »

Im just wondering here.. Dont you have addons on PC for when you have to do certain stuff? Im asking coz I honestly dont know. (Again, im on PS4)

Certain stuff like what?

Like stuff popping up when ur supposed to block/dodge etc..

There are a few, but their shakily built at best and too basic to fit realistic needs at worst.

Right. Well I cant wait to try all the new content. Will be a few days tho due to work.. meh..

Ep1kMalware

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

There seem to be two main groups of people in this thread. The people who think it needs toned down, and the people screaming about filthy casuals. If the divide isn't clear now, I dont think it will ever be.

I like how you portray the "casual" side of the argument as the civilized group. from reading all these posts the more civilized answers have been from the groups in opposition of nerfs.

The onlt 'division' is the one you created between two non existent groups misrepresentated to fufill the needs of your own biased views.

I'm guessing it'a just 'us', or 'them', no indivdual perspectives exist here?

If you wanna judge the people opposing nerfs as 'civil', then go ahed, feel free to draw your own conclusions. I continue to call it like I see it.

I suggest reading through your previous post then, because if you consider that 'calling as you saw it', I'd get checked for dementia.

Doctordarkspawn

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

There seem to be two main groups of people in this thread. The people who think it needs toned down, and the people screaming about filthy casuals. If the divide isn't clear now, I dont think it will ever be.

I like how you portray the "casual" side of the argument as the civilized group. from reading all these posts the more civilized answers have been from the groups in opposition of nerfs.

The onlt 'division' is the one you created between two non existent groups misrepresentated to fufill the needs of your own biased views.

I'm guessing it'a just 'us', or 'them', no indivdual perspectives exist here?

If you wanna judge the people opposing nerfs as 'civil', then go ahed, feel free to draw your own conclusions. I continue to call it like I see it.

I suggest reading through your previous post then, because if you consider that 'calling as you saw it', I'd get checked for dementia.

Vildebill

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Come on, why do you wish to be catered with a dungeon walk-through instead of something to work with? Finally we have some new dungeons which are somewhat challenging, at least some bosses. I hardly struggled at all on vCoS first time i ran it, it took some tries on Velidreth to get the hang of the mechanics, but that wasn't very hard either. vRoM was a little tougher but still VERY doable if you take time to learn the mechanics on the bosses. Compare that to how hard vWGT or vICP was the first time you ran them (at least in my case). They nerfed them to hell so you even can ignore mechanics, where is the fun in that? Would be a shame if the same was done to these new dungeons.

Why are you even playing dungeons if you just want the guided tour?

The 'why do you want a theme park' thing does not satisfy any of the complaints which have been:

"The final boss mechanics on hard mode are far too much"

"Basic mob resistance is too high"

And isn't a solution like the ones currently discussed in this thread which have been:

"Better advertising for the difficulty of the content so players are not mislead."

"A 'Expert' or 'Elite' difficulty that will restore all dungeons, not just these, to the vanilla style of difficulty."

"Slight tweaks to the very hard boss mechanics to make them more manageable."

Please either despute the points made, or add a solution to the list of solutions people have come up with. Be constructive.

OK, let me answer you questions then:
- "The final boss mechanics on hard mode are far too much"
Learn the mechanics and they are not that hard. You can look it up on YouTube and learn it in like 5min and then do a couple of tries to get the hang of you. Purely lazy argument...

- "Basic mob resistance is too high"
People nuke these mobs, improve your DPS and practice.

I don't consider myself as a top player and my DPS isn't the highest when I play that role, and I still make it.

The 'why do you want a theme park' argument completely satisfy everything here. Do you expect your whole life to be catered to you as well? You have to work for most things that are challenging. Which is the whole fun in these dungeons. Don't ruin the fun for us that actually likes to work for our goals just because you aren't willing and able to do so.

Doctordarkspawn

Vildebill wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Come on, why do you wish to be catered with a dungeon walk-through instead of something to work with? Finally we have some new dungeons which are somewhat challenging, at least some bosses. I hardly struggled at all on vCoS first time i ran it, it took some tries on Velidreth to get the hang of the mechanics, but that wasn't very hard either. vRoM was a little tougher but still VERY doable if you take time to learn the mechanics on the bosses. Compare that to how hard vWGT or vICP was the first time you ran them (at least in my case). They nerfed them to hell so you even can ignore mechanics, where is the fun in that? Would be a shame if the same was done to these new dungeons.

Why are you even playing dungeons if you just want the guided tour?

The 'why do you want a theme park' thing does not satisfy any of the complaints which have been:

"The final boss mechanics on hard mode are far too much"

"Basic mob resistance is too high"

And isn't a solution like the ones currently discussed in this thread which have been:

"Better advertising for the difficulty of the content so players are not mislead."

"A 'Expert' or 'Elite' difficulty that will restore all dungeons, not just these, to the vanilla style of difficulty."

"Slight tweaks to the very hard boss mechanics to make them more manageable."

Please either despute the points made, or add a solution to the list of solutions people have come up with. Be constructive.

OK, let me answer you questions then:
- "The final boss mechanics on hard mode are far too much"
Learn the mechanics and they are not that hard. You can look it up on YouTube and learn it in like 5min and then do a couple of tries to get the hang of you. Purely lazy argument...

- "Basic mob resistance is too high"
People nuke these mobs, improve your DPS and practice.

I don't consider myself as a top player and my DPS isn't the highest when I play that role, and I still make it.

The 'why do you want a theme park' argument completely satisfy everything here. Do you expect your whole life to be catered to you as well? You have to work for most things that are challenging. Which is the whole fun in these dungeons. Don't ruin the fun for us that actually likes to work for our goals just because you aren't willing and able to do so.

One. Not a DPS.

Two. Like I said in the original post, I've done these dungeons plenty of times, I know the mechanics. Purely lazy arguement.

You wanna hold to the theme park arguement, well I got nothing to say to it exept for:



Oh. And you dont need me to ruin the fun. Sales, the ammount of people actually doing the quest and the ammount of copies they need to sell will do that. I cant do ***, but capitalism can.

Jade1986

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Like im not evwn surprised to see one of these threads im so glad i left this game there is literally nothing to do cause the casuals keep hollering for nerfs im pretty sure you want maestrom wrapons to be sold too huh? lol man lol i play never winter now where i see absolutely no nerf threads at all and alot of that game is really hard at the end and its a blast!! The casuals and hardcore alike work together to complete quests and content cause rheres like zero chanve of them nerfing anything. Eso just turned into causal carebear city i have a fulltime job a life and a girland yet i still find the time needed to put in to do hard content. Everything in life isnt going to be spoonfed man you gotta work for it stop being pampered

I remember when mobs were difficult at launch. XD A little too difficult for certain classes, but that just required class tweaks. Not a massive nerf to all enemies.

Doctordarkspawn

laced wrote: »

Rjizzle09 wrote: »

Like im not evwn surprised to see one of these threads im so glad i left this game there is literally nothing to do cause the casuals keep hollering for nerfs im pretty sure you want maestrom wrapons to be sold too huh? lol man lol i play never winter now where i see absolutely no nerf threads at all and alot of that game is really hard at the end and its a blast!! The casuals and hardcore alike work together to complete quests and content cause rheres like zero chanve of them nerfing anything. Eso just turned into causal carebear city i have a fulltime job a life and a girland yet i still find the time needed to put in to do hard content. Everything in life isnt going to be spoonfed man you gotta work for it stop being pampered

I remember when mobs were difficult at launch. XD A little too difficult for certain classes, but that just required class tweaks. Not a massive nerf to all enemies.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Back when we had softcaps.

Back when the game was designed around these softcaps.

Back when the designers had a baseline and we didn't have this constant powercreep of DPS pushing the limit and then the designers designing for the new limit.

Back when the design didn't suck.

Tyrion87

Well, from my experience the two new dungeons are similar to vICP and vWGT in terms of difficulty, maybe except for the final boss in vRoM which can be pretty hard, especially during the execute phase. Yet, the problem of these two dungeons is that they are not PUG-friendly. And this is because of the mechanics of the final bosses and also of the penultimate boss in vRoM. I don't think that the rest of the dungeons is so hard that PUGs couldn't do.

As for the final boss in vRoM: for the players who don't get a blue screen there should be some kind of the notification on the screen (similar to the one that appears when Argonian Behemoth spits his poison aoe on the ground) indicating that another player has hallucination and waits for indicating him the right statue to smash. Such notification could be removed for the hardmode. There is also a chaos during the execute phase where a person who gets the blue screen will likely be killed by the roots-like AOE (especially if it's a healer and there is no one who could heal him when it happens). The hallucination during the execute phase should be removed and left only for the hardmode.

I would also change one little aspect of the fight with Argonian Behemoth in vRoM - for a player who carries the poison to the geyser there should be a possibility to drop the poison (activate the synergy in order to hand on the poison to another player) anytime and not only when he is slowed down (it would prevent some unnecessary deaths since you cannot use abilities/heal yourself when carrying the poison).

As for the final boss in vCoS - I wouldn't change anything.

It's good that these new dungeons (in vet mode) are hard and challenging - the satisfaction from completing them is priceless. The three basic principles for the players to complete them are 3x "co": coordination, cooperation and communication. And it doesn't require you to use TS - people should just know what to do and when. The mechanics are interesting and overall the dungeons are amazing and fun. Nevertheless the difference between normal and vet modes of those is too large and the normal ones don't prepare the players for their harder veteran equivalents. And also, if more people are to do them and if they use only zone chat/grouping tool to join a PUG, the mechanics should be a little altered (as I suggested above), leaving the hardmodes unchanged. It is good that after completing them in vet but without a hardmode for a pledge, you get one gold key now instead of only the silver one. It was a really good change.

IwakuraLain42

Tyrion87 wrote: »

It's good that these new dungeons (in vet mode) are hard and challenging - the satisfaction from completing them is priceless. The three basic principles for the players to complete them are 3x "co": coordination, cooperation and communication. And it doesn't require you to use TS - people should just know what to do and when. The mechanics are interesting and overall the dungeons are amazing and fun. Nevertheless the difference between normal and vet modes of those is too large and the normal ones don't prepare the players for their harder veteran equivalents. And also, if more people are to do them and if they use only zone chat/grouping tool to join a PUG, the mechanics should be a little altered (as I suggested above), leaving the hardmodes unchanged. It is good that after completing them in vet but without a hardmode for a pledge, you get one gold key now instead of only the silver one. It was a really good change.

This (the bolded) part is a major problem for all endgames content since Orsinium. I understand why ZOS provides easy (aka Normal versions) for all the really casual players out there, but these Dungeons or Trials really don't help at all with the Veteran versions. As has been written before, the jump between Normal and Veteran has become very huge and I would like seeing that addresses by ZOS. Any halfway competent player (and trial group) can run through the Normal dungeons/trials easily, but most will struggle at the Veteran versions with their artificially boosted difficulties.

It's my opinion that the difficulty of the endgame content needs to be adopted that most of the playerbase (like casuals, pro/veterans, elite/veterans) have some content that they can enjoy mastering. Currently this fails for the mid-tear for all endgame content released since Orsinium.

Doctordarkspawn

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

It's good that these new dungeons (in vet mode) are hard and challenging - the satisfaction from completing them is priceless. The three basic principles for the players to complete them are 3x "co": coordination, cooperation and communication. And it doesn't require you to use TS - people should just know what to do and when. The mechanics are interesting and overall the dungeons are amazing and fun. Nevertheless the difference between normal and vet modes of those is too large and the normal ones don't prepare the players for their harder veteran equivalents. And also, if more people are to do them and if they use only zone chat/grouping tool to join a PUG, the mechanics should be a little altered (as I suggested above), leaving the hardmodes unchanged. It is good that after completing them in vet but without a hardmode for a pledge, you get one gold key now instead of only the silver one. It was a really good change.

This (the bolded) part is a major problem for all endgames content since Orsinium. I understand why ZOS provides easy (aka Normal versions) for all the really casual players out there, but these Dungeons or Trials really don't help at all with the Veteran versions. As has been written before, the jump between Normal and Veteran has become very huge and I would like seeing that addresses by ZOS. Any halfway competent player (and trial group) can run through the Normal dungeons/trials easily, but most will struggle at the Veteran versions with their artificially boosted difficulties.

It's my opinion that the difficulty of the endgame content needs to be adopted that most of the playerbase (like casuals, pro/veterans, elite/veterans) have some content that they can enjoy mastering. Currently this fails for the mid-tear for all endgame content released since Orsinium.

I didn't think I could applaud this hard. This, to infinity and beyond.

I think that if ZOS spent as much time designing the curve up to veteran trials and true endgame elite content as they did mechanics we would not be in the position we are in, where we are asking 'who is this content for'

Contraptions

Here we go again. ZOS releases some overtuned crap, the elites rush to defend their precious "challenge". Give it a few months OP, it will be nerfed eventually. I'll purchase it when they do.

I've completed the vet versions of both dungeons and I feel they need to tone down the difficulty for the two dungeons on vet. They seem a bit too difficult now, where most bosses feel like damage sponges and the number of one shot and RNG mechanics (like which doors are locked on Velidreth) makes the fight unenjoyable. There are even ways where the bosses will explicitly find the best way to annoy you. (such as Velidreth automatically trying to stun someone who is rezzing, and throwing out resource draining bubbles that home into players etc.) Why do dungeons have to be so overtuned? Why do the hard modes have to be like the trials where you have to have high survivavbility, high DPS, high sustain, high everything? This isn't a trial; I don't want to feel like I'm beating my head against a wall for some daily quest.

As for the whole "hardcore vs casual" thing I really don't find that a useful distinction. Those terms are used way too loosely that they lose their meanings. Besides, not every "hardcore" is good and not every "casual" is bad; some of my best dungeon runs have been with the more casual members of my guilds. Recently had a semi-pug vCOS run where we needed a dps, and this person with the Dro-m'Athra skin shows up, Maelstrom weapons and all. I think, "hmm, he's done the hardest content in this game, we should be fine". HA. Refuses to light braziers and bash Khephidaen, refuses to bash Dranos' chains, first to ragequit after a few tries. Please.

I do think the new trials and dungeons are suffering from some form of "spectacle creep" where the new content has to be flashier, more "action packed" compared to the old content. To some this may be a good change but for me in my opinion it usually means the fights are much more gimmicky and time consuming compared to the older content. Also, with the CP system and the lack of soft caps the gulf between good and great DPS has grown huge. In this game where DPS is king, ZOS has to constantly increase the difficulty in order to appease the crowd screaming for "MOAR challenge". I don't think it's sustainable nor good game design. It means eventually you'll have to make content that's so overtuned that only a tiny tiny fraction of the player base can ever complete it (see vMOL). It's elitist and exclusionary, it enforces cliqueish behavior where the best only ever group with the best. For a social game like an MMO I don't think that's good. The softcaps era in comparison was much better.

Wifeaggro13

Contraptions wrote: »

Here we go again. ZOS releases some overtuned crap, the elites rush to defend their precious "challenge". Give it a few months OP, it will be nerfed eventually. I'll purchase it when they do.

I've completed the vet versions of both dungeons and I feel they need to tone down the difficulty for the two dungeons on vet. They seem a bit too difficult now, where most bosses feel like damage sponges and the number of one shot and RNG mechanics (like which doors are locked on Velidreth) makes the fight unenjoyable. There are even ways where the bosses will explicitly find the best way to annoy you. (such as Velidreth automatically trying to stun someone who is rezzing, and throwing out resource draining bubbles that home into players etc.) Why do dungeons have to be so overtuned? Why do the hard modes have to be like the trials where you have to have high survivavbility, high DPS, high sustain, high everything? This isn't a trial; I don't want to feel like I'm beating my head against a wall for some daily quest.

As for the whole "hardcore vs casual" thing I really don't find that a useful distinction. Those terms are used way too loosely that they lose their meanings. Besides, not every "hardcore" is good and not every "casual" is bad; some of my best dungeon runs have been with the more casual members of my guilds. Recently had a semi-pug vCOS run where we needed a dps, and this person with the Dro-m'Athra skin shows up, Maelstrom weapons and all. I think, "hmm, he's done the hardest content in this game, we should be fine". HA. Refuses to light braziers and bash Khephidaen, refuses to bash Dranos' chains, first to ragequit after a few tries. Please.

I do think the new trials and dungeons are suffering from some form of "spectacle creep" where the new content has to be flashier, more "action packed" compared to the old content. To some this may be a good change but for me in my opinion it usually means the fights are much more gimmicky and time consuming compared to the older content. Also, with the CP system and the lack of soft caps the gulf between good and great DPS has grown huge. In this game where DPS is king, ZOS has to constantly increase the difficulty in order to appease the crowd screaming for "MOAR challenge". I don't think it's sustainable nor good game design. It means eventually you'll have to make content that's so overtuned that only a tiny tiny fraction of the player base can ever complete it (see vMOL). It's elitist and exclusionary, it enforces cliqueish behavior where the best only ever group with the best. For a social game like an MMO I don't think that's good. The softcaps era in comparison was much better.

Those behaviors will be there reguard less of the difficulty. People form static groups and friendships because this is a MMO. I did not find the dungeons hard. It is DPS centeric once again is the problem. The elitist attitude comes form the E peen i am a 40k DPS player blah blah. so ZOS designs the content around 2 people being able to burst or sustain this ridiculous number. You dont need a tank and full healing is situational. did the pledge yesterday VCOA where once again whole zone Developed around DPS and avoiding fire. I healed my self kited the adds on the ash titan and 3 people stacked on boss and DPS'd . The problem is to sustain that ridculous DPS number requires a wonky rotation of dots bar swapping and Gold gear set gear with a DPS centric CP build. Yes the upper echelon spending hours on this has it mastered, has variations of sets baked into their build for different situations. This is not play your way ESO this is play the DPS way ESO. Thats what the problem is Core game design is un inventive and lazily built around DPS.

idk

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Nebthet78 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Now, we finally have hard modes that matter. And this is a good change. People have been asking repeatedly for three tiers of difficulty: one for most players (normal), one for the good--but not hardcore--players who want a challenge (vet), and one for the hardcore players (vet HM). So much of the new content--Maelstrom and Maw in particular--cater to just the first and third groups while leaving the middle group feeling left out. And now we finally have content that (somewhat) satisfies the need for more difficulty tiers, and your response is to complain about it?

The problem is, there is no actual third difficulty tier. There is no middle ground. The Normal mode is too damn easy and the Vet versions are too damn hard for most casual players, especially after they have nerfed Regen into the ground once again.

If they are going to keep things at this difficulty, then they are going to have to actually either nerf the Vet versions to be more in line with what they used to be, but properly scaled up, or they are going to have to create an actual Third Tier, especially for Trials.

Prior to this DLC I used to run Vet Trials with my guilds. We were able to accomplish them even with players not wearing specific armour to meet Meta requirements. It was challenging and it was fun and we could usually get two runs in, in a three hour timeline.

NOW, with the way they have scaled Vet Trials, no one is my guilds have been able to get anywhere near the end of them. We have even had one of the people in that video who actually did make it through with his Elite Guild come into ours and he basically told everyone, if you want to finish it, then you have to wear such and such gear to meet Meta and have to have such and such DPS otherwise there is no point.
That confirmed to me right there that only the top Elite Guilds are ever going to be able to complete the Vet Trails as they stand right now.

And before you jump down my throat for essentially calling for a nerf, I don't mind challenging content. I don't mind having to follow mechanics and take my time and having to think about things. What I do mind is what equates to banging my head against the wall repeatedly trying to do something that was designed in such a way as to actually hinder my ability to do it unless I fit into this specific cookie cutter build.
That crap isn't fun and I don't stay with things very long that are not fun.

Add onto that the fact that most players don't have 3+ hours at a time to dedicate to trying to take down the Vet versions of the new dungeons or the Vet trials.

For the new Vet Dungeons, and I have had lengthy conversations with others whom have completed them on Vet, (and yes, I have tanked both on Vet and completed them), they need a reasonable 10% reduction in damage output and health.

For the Vet Trials, the bosses themselves should be scaled back a little (10-15%). However, the real issue I see most people having is with the adds being scaled to rediculous proportions of over 1+million HP each, and new harder adds being added, such as the Overchargers in AA.
Scale the adds back down to what they are on Normal, but leave the actual Bosses to what they are and it gives players who don't have over 3+ hours and "Meta" gear a fighting chance to actually complete Vet dungeons while still having to pay attention to mechanics.

Have I purchased the Shadow of the Hist DLC? Nope, and I won't either. The only reason I have access to it right now is because my sub hasn't run out yet.

I would honestly love to see the Devs actually play these dungeons and trials on Vet modes without any of their cheat codes/God modes to see how they react and if they can do it because I am pretty well convinced they don't really play their own game unless they are using god mode or are on normal (easy) mode.

I feel bad for you, I really do. It sounds as if you're frustrated. I hope that you find a way to complete the Trials.

That being said, I've tanked them too, I've dps'd them as well. None of what you're calling for is accurate.

A decent, well organized and well equiped guild group can complete any Vet Trial (Except Maw) in an hour and a half. That is *with* deaths and probably at least one wipe on places where the team splits up.

Your guild did not do "Veteran Trials" before the update. You did "Regular Trials" that also happened to have a Difficult Mode attached to them (Breaking the Statues, Burning the Banners, Smashing the Orbs). You can still do Regular Trials. Good Guilds can complete Veteran Trials and Great Guilds can complete Veteran Trials on Difficult Mode. I'm sorry to say this, but I will bet money you weren't beating the Trials before you were VR16 (now CP160). I'm willing to lose that bet if it's not the case, but likely you were running builds you "liked" against VR12 and VR14 mobs at VR16 and you were beating them by the sheer difference in power level. Now that that's gone you realize you were only on a small foothill standing next to Mount Olympus.

The same goes for Dungeons. We were spanking City of Ash on Veteran Difficult Mode when there was no Champion System and when 14 was as high as it could go. Sure it took us a few tries, but it was totally possible, now we've got new content that takes some tries but it is highly doable and we even have the added benefit of adjusting CP so that we maximize what will give us the greatest benefits.

If the Dungeons Difficult Mode is too hard, don't do it. If the Trials Difficult Mode is too hard, don't do it.

Otherwise, just practice and work at it. You can do a lot without resorting to "cookie cutter". You can learn from the people who've done extensive testing and theorycrafting and you can figure out what they say that works for you and what you are willing to turn your nose up and you can accept the consequences of those actions without claiming that it's "not fun".

All of this is easy to do, sure it's easier for me because I can beat the Veteran Trials and the Difficult Mode levels of Dungeons, but that's because I've worked at it and worked at it and worked at it. I beat my head against AA and Hel Ra so many times back when 12 was the highest Veteran Rank, eventually I beat them, right before 14 was introduced. However, even if it weren't easy for me to complete those things I'd be cool with it. I am a terrible awful freaking abysmal PvP player and I've accepted that I will never get the Emp costume, never earn Proxy Det or Caltrops on all my alts, and never get some of those rather cool rewards I see people score from lockboxes. I'm cool with that because I can rock PvE pretty hard. Find your niche and be cool with it.

So with that all being said.

Stop asking for reductions in difficulty after only a few weeks of a dungeon or trial being live, please.

I hate to break it to you, but the guilds I ran with indeed did Vet Trials and finished them on hard mode prior to this update. Would you like a screen shot of the gold jewelry I received from making leaderboard just to prove it?

You think my requests are unreasonable, just wait until the console users start flooding the forums with their complaints, then you will see unreasonable. I at least am being reasonable in stating it requires a small adjustment to allow many other players to enjoy the content they paid for and not feel like they are just beating their heads against a brick wall.

You do realize that there was no vet version of AA and HRC before this update (only normal mode with an option to do hard mode on the last boss) ? And that they were capped at cp120 ? And that you still would get gold jewelry for their weeklies ?

Yes and those were not the only two I ran. You assume much, and you know what they say about making assumptions.....

Either way, I still stand by my opinion. You don't have to like, nor agreed with it, but I won't be changing it. We'll see what happens in a couple months.

Since AA and HRC are not the only trials you have completed in hard mode the. I expect your talking about SO since vMoL has been cleared on hard mode by few guilds.

With that, even SO was below our level. It was v14 while we were clearlign it at v16. But difference.

For many it will be like relearning these trials, especially since we have been able to ignore many mechanics in the trials. For others, that funky dps build is not going to cut it. Many players will have to improve their build, essentially learn to get more out of their character.

Do I feel for guilds and players unable to clear the vet trials when they could easily clear the trials before? NO. It's a great experience to push oneself. It's a great challenge.

For those not up to the challenge there is normal mode and it can be fun to run with a group.

Carbonised

Contraptions wrote: »

Here we go again. ZOS releases some overtuned crap, the elites rush to defend their precious "challenge". Give it a few months OP, it will be nerfed eventually. I'll purchase it when they do.

I've completed the vet versions of both dungeons and I feel they need to tone down the difficulty for the two dungeons on vet. They seem a bit too difficult now, where most bosses feel like damage sponges and the number of one shot and RNG mechanics (like which doors are locked on Velidreth) makes the fight unenjoyable. There are even ways where the bosses will explicitly find the best way to annoy you. (such as Velidreth automatically trying to stun someone who is rezzing, and throwing out resource draining bubbles that home into players etc.) Why do dungeons have to be so overtuned? Why do the hard modes have to be like the trials where you have to have high survivavbility, high DPS, high sustain, high everything? This isn't a trial; I don't want to feel like I'm beating my head against a wall for some daily quest.

As for the whole "hardcore vs casual" thing I really don't find that a useful distinction. Those terms are used way too loosely that they lose their meanings. Besides, not every "hardcore" is good and not every "casual" is bad; some of my best dungeon runs have been with the more casual members of my guilds. Recently had a semi-pug vCOS run where we needed a dps, and this person with the Dro-m'Athra skin shows up, Maelstrom weapons and all. I think, "hmm, he's done the hardest content in this game, we should be fine". HA. Refuses to light braziers and bash Khephidaen, refuses to bash Dranos' chains, first to ragequit after a few tries. Please.

I do think the new trials and dungeons are suffering from some form of "spectacle creep" where the new content has to be flashier, more "action packed" compared to the old content. To some this may be a good change but for me in my opinion it usually means the fights are much more gimmicky and time consuming compared to the older content. Also, with the CP system and the lack of soft caps the gulf between good and great DPS has grown huge. In this game where DPS is king, ZOS has to constantly increase the difficulty in order to appease the crowd screaming for "MOAR challenge". I don't think it's sustainable nor good game design. It means eventually you'll have to make content that's so overtuned that only a tiny tiny fraction of the player base can ever complete it (see vMOL). It's elitist and exclusionary, it enforces cliqueish behavior where the best only ever group with the best. For a social game like an MMO I don't think that's good. The softcaps era in comparison was much better.

This is exactly the crux of the matter here, couldn't have said it better myself.

Another problem with the new dungeons, for me personally, is that they both require great mobility. Your character has to dodge roll, sprint and jump about all the time to avoid various one-shot mechanisms, or to get to the boss, or to get away from the boss. And here I am on my magDK with zero mobility and not even a functioning gap closer.
I also suffer from being stuck at 30k-ish DPS, while stam yet again has the possibility to just burn through everything. ZOS adds more and more mechanisms into their dungeon circus, bash this, esacpe that, invulnerability here and there, CC phase, one shot phase, maze phase and what not, and stam doesn't have to deal with half of that due to extreme DPS, while some of us who can never reach those numbers do. And it's not about 'l2p' or 'gitgud', read every post on these forums and you'll see magDK has issues.

'Spectacle creep' is exactly how I see it too. Even before trying out the new dungeons on normal, I knew ZOS has added a million mechanisms that had to be played out in order to not wipe. Jump to the left, jump to the right, push that button, hop on one leg and close your eyes while singing 'God save the Queen' in the blue phase when the boss does her thing etc. This makes it more of a circus than a dungeon, and feels exactly too 'action packed' or 'gimmicky'. The DPS stack & burn game you have made yourself is the problem here, ZOS, and these dungeons are only ways of you trying to circumvent or remedy that. They're not the solution, they're a symptom of the underlying problem. Had you made a good and challenging game with softcaps and no easy way to reach those insane dps numbers with no costs, there wouldn't be need of all these gimmicks and sideshow mechanics of the new dungeons to begin with.

Milvan

Carbonised wrote: »

0
Another problem with the new dungeons, for me personally, is that they both require great mobility. Your character has to dodge roll, sprint and jump about all the time to avoid various one-shot mechanisms, or to get to the boss, or to get away from the boss. And here I am on my magDK with zero mobility and not even a functioning gap closer.
I also suffer from being stuck at 30k-ish DPS, while stam yet again has the possibility to just burn through everything. ZOS adds more and more mechanisms into their dungeon circus, bash this, esacpe that, invulnerability here and there, CC phase, one shot phase, maze phase and what not, and stam doesn't have to deal with half of that due to extreme DPS, while some of us who can never reach those numbers do. And it's not about 'l2p' or 'gitgud', read every post on these forums and you'll see magDK has issues.

'Spectacle creep' is exactly how I see it too. Even before trying out the new dungeons on normal, I knew ZOS has added a million mechanisms that had to be played out in order to not wipe. Jump to the left, jump to the right, push that button, hop on one leg and close your eyes while singing 'God save the Queen' in the blue phase when the boss does her thing etc. This makes it more of a circus than a dungeon, and feels exactly too 'action packed' or 'gimmicky'. The DPS stack & burn game you have made yourself is the problem here, ZOS, and these dungeons are only ways of you trying to circumvent or remedy that. They're not the solution, they're a symptom of the underlying problem. Had you made a good and challenging game with softcaps and no easy way to reach those insane dps numbers with no costs, there wouldn't be need of all these gimmicks and sideshow mechanics of the new dungeons to begin with.

I'm sorry, but its clearly a l2p and gitgud issue. Just because you can't doesn't mean that other people can't. The fighting mechanics are great, you need to learn to coordinated, to pay attention on several aspects and and still and press buttons. It's hard to learn but actually easy to master.
Work on your gameplay and on your build that you will do just fine on any endgame content.

Carbonised

Milvan wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

0
Another problem with the new dungeons, for me personally, is that they both require great mobility. Your character has to dodge roll, sprint and jump about all the time to avoid various one-shot mechanisms, or to get to the boss, or to get away from the boss. And here I am on my magDK with zero mobility and not even a functioning gap closer.
I also suffer from being stuck at 30k-ish DPS, while stam yet again has the possibility to just burn through everything. ZOS adds more and more mechanisms into their dungeon circus, bash this, esacpe that, invulnerability here and there, CC phase, one shot phase, maze phase and what not, and stam doesn't have to deal with half of that due to extreme DPS, while some of us who can never reach those numbers do. And it's not about 'l2p' or 'gitgud', read every post on these forums and you'll see magDK has issues.

'Spectacle creep' is exactly how I see it too. Even before trying out the new dungeons on normal, I knew ZOS has added a million mechanisms that had to be played out in order to not wipe. Jump to the left, jump to the right, push that button, hop on one leg and close your eyes while singing 'God save the Queen' in the blue phase when the boss does her thing etc. This makes it more of a circus than a dungeon, and feels exactly too 'action packed' or 'gimmicky'. The DPS stack & burn game you have made yourself is the problem here, ZOS, and these dungeons are only ways of you trying to circumvent or remedy that. They're not the solution, they're a symptom of the underlying problem. Had you made a good and challenging game with softcaps and no easy way to reach those insane dps numbers with no costs, there wouldn't be need of all these gimmicks and sideshow mechanics of the new dungeons to begin with.

I'm sorry, but its clearly a l2p and gitgud issue. Just because you can't doesn't mean that other people can't. The fighting mechanics are great, you need to learn to coordinated, to pay attention on several aspects and and still and press buttons. It's hard to learn but actually easy to master.
Work on your gameplay and on your build that you will do just fine on any endgame content.

When are you going to stop being so friggin arrogant and think you know anything about my playstyle and my build?

"clearly a l2p issue" Yeah and how do you know that, pray tell? Have you been with me in the dungeons, seen my performance? No? Then I suggest you stop thinking you know anything about my playstyle.

That the mechanics are fun is your opinion only, and frankly I couldn't really care less about what your opinion is. I see several other people in this thread saying they are not funny, and feel gimmicky and too hard for the sake of being too hard.

Yes, it's actually 'easy to master', I guess that's why it's virtually impossible to get a group for the new dungeons because everyone wants someone with 'exp' to prevent a million wipes and a half-day grind against the unnessecarily hard content.

The man I quoted hit the nail on the head, I suggest you read what he wrote instead of falling back on your reflex knee-jerk answer to everything.

The Uninvited

Carbonised wrote: »

And it's not about 'l2p' or 'gitgud', read every post on these forums and you'll see magDK has issues.

Those are mostly about PVP, in PVE magDK doesn't have that much issues.

Milvan

Carbonised wrote: »

When are you going to stop being so friggin arrogant and think you know anything about my playstyle and my build?

"clearly a l2p issue" Yeah and how do you know that, pray tell? Have you been with me in the dungeons, seen my performance? No? Then I suggest you stop thinking you know anything about my playstyle.

Because you said it yourself?
"Another problem with the new dungeons, for me personally, is that they both require great mobility. Your character has to dodge roll, sprint and jump about all the time to avoid various one-shot mechanisms, or to get to the boss, or to get away from the boss. And here I am on my magDK with zero mobility and not even a functioning gap closer.
I also suffer from being stuck at 30k-ish DPS(...)"

Carbonised wrote: »

That the mechanics are fun is your opinion only , and frankly I couldn't really care less about what your opinion is. I see several other people in this thread saying they are not funny, and feel gimmicky and too hard for the sake of being too hard.

Yes, it's actually 'easy to master', I guess that's why it's virtually impossible to get a group for the new dungeons because everyone wants someone with 'exp' to prevent a million wipes and a half-day grind against the unnessecarily hard content.

The man I quoted hit the nail on the head, I suggest you read what he wrote instead of falling back on your reflex knee-jerk answer to everything.

I don't work with synecdoches. I'm not the only one that actually enjoys the mechanics, also, hate and complains are much more vocal than the people that are enjoying because, well, they are actually playing it.

The point is that casuals scrolls don't even try to run it. There is the normal version to pratice, there is vet version to get used to and there is hardmode vet version to the real challenge. Can't complete it on vet? Do it on normal, l2p and go back to the vet when you are ready and woop the boss ass with his own face. The point is that anti-socials casual scrolls want to get on anything to do it solo and easily with barely any challenge. This is sad, when we actually get some decent group content after three major solo updates, people are already asking to nerf it.