Is it me or are most stam builds exactly the same?

Bakven

You see the exact same thing. 2h and bow.

2h bar: Crit rush, Rally, Dizzy Swing, Executioner, class ability
Bow bar: Snipe/bombard, Poison injection, class skill, class skill, class skill

And ususally all the DK's are running the same DK skills, Templars running the same Templar skills, same with Sorcs and Nightblades. All the stam builds now just feel cookiecutter and boring. I actually get excited when I run into someone using duel wield or SnB or even a magicka user.

Don't get me wrong, the meta is effective (that's why everyone's running it), but seriously where is the imagination on making unusual builds? I blame @Zos for making some skills usless while others too good to go without and forcing these cookiecutter fotm builds.

Stratforge

I have seen lots of SnB and Dual Wield builds lately. I think you're underestimating the diversity.

Bakven

Stratforge wrote: »

I have seen lots of SnB and Dual Wield builds lately. I think you're underestimating the diversity.

I honestly can't tell you how few of those I see. In a zerg I see maybe 1-2 SnB and duel wield users. Magicka users are more common thankfully but a huge majority of stam users are 2h and Bow.

Izaki

No no no the bow bar is more like
Bombard/Snipe, Poison injection, Shuffle, Resolving Vigor, Class Ability

And you forgot ultimates too : DBoS

Bakven

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

No no no the bow bar is more like
Bombard/Snipe, Poison injection, Shuffle, Resolving Vigor, Class Ability

And you forgot ultimates too : DBoS

I was actually just looking to edit to add shuffle and Vigor. I left out the ultimate on accident but yeah, DBoS

altemriel

meta

Waffennacht

If you're stam you kinda have to run dbos esp sorc (no other burst) and 2h (spot heal and only true execute and only weapon gap closer for dps)

I personally run dw other bar, though on it i have 3 magicka costing moves on it

susmitds

Well, only Stamina NBs can affords to run DW succesfully in PvP, which is actually quite common.

Bdawwg

I love going s&b instead. People always are looking for the dizzying swing but not here. LA ransack bash ftw!

Pandorii

I've always felt that way about stam classes, which is why I always preferred magicka (before they were thrown under the bus).

Stamina builds rely so much on their weapon skills, it's not funny, with 1 or 2 class defining skills (i.e. jabs and repentance for stamplars, wings for dk, etc.) However, I think it's symptomatic of class imbalance problems, which even the PvP kings (the stamina types) need looking into. For example, crushing shock is an integral part of many builds because the classes do not have their own strong gap closers. Executioner is an integral part of many builds because their classes may not have proper executioners, etc.

NBs seem immune. They have so many great stamina class skills. However, these are just my broad observations, since I'm not an expert on stam builds. Not my thing.

Bakven

Pandorii wrote: »

I've always felt that way about stam classes, which is why I always preferred magicka (before they were thrown under the bus).

Stamina builds rely so much on their weapon skills, it's not funny, with 1 or 2 class defining skills (i.e. jabs and repentance for stamplars, wings for dk, etc.) However, I think it's symptomatic of class imbalance problems, which even the PvP kings (the stamina types) need looking into. For example, crushing shock is an integral part of many builds because the classes do not have their own strong gap closers. Executioner is an integral part of many builds because their classes may not have proper executioners, etc.

NBs seem immune. They have so many great stamina class skills. However, these are just my broad observations, since I'm not an expert on stam builds. Not my thing.

NBs only have 4 stamina class abilities, not a lot, but more than the other classes. maybe you'd see a lot more variety if they made class skills have a stam and magika morph.

Edziu

I think it is just this "meta"

as for me on bow I have only poison arrow as weapon skill and on my 2h weapon...thanks surprise attack as stamina orph I have only rally as weapon skill

Jaronking

Stratforge wrote: »

I have seen lots of SnB and Dual Wield builds lately. I think you're underestimating the diversity.

I have seen a lot of NB going DW but other stam classes can't.2 hand is their only way to get a gap.closer plus one of the few spamable stamina abilities for some classes for example stam sorcs and DK its all they have for PVP. On Xbox I haven't seen many players running SNB unless their a tank.OP only person I know who goes SnB as DPS in PVP is me lol.

Mojmir

That's what happens when you only have 4 classes,unbalanced weapon skills,and 2 pools to dip resources from. We could have so many more things but we have too many restrictions holding it back. This game is how old and it's the SSDD?

Waffennacht

Here is my build, and honestly would love to hear some opinions.

All purp armor with a few pieces still blue, no undaunted buffs yet, needs gold weapons too. Add another 5k to both resistances from hurricane, and another 12% spell crit from CP passive.



Here is an example of game play,

Https://youtu.be/JYF4AHAlWms

Can you guys give me a critique of both my playing and my opponents?

anthonylpz

Couldn't agree more. As a Stamplar, I am extremely frustrated with the lack of diversity. I would love to use dw and/or 1h/s, but I could never do that without sacrificing a burst heal (rally), mobility (bow passive), and a gap closer (crit rush). All of the aofrementioned are necessary to be any good in PvP especially as a solo player. Honestly, this is making the game very boring for me.

Sandman929

You can get creative with builds when you're in a group that will compensate for what you have to sacrifice to be creative.

Sandman929

I think there's been too much effort put into making solo play viable, and the result is DPS builds that are also their own healers.

SirAndy

Bakven wrote: »

You see the exact same thing. 2h and bow.

Funny because my Stamblade doesn't use 2H, so no, they're not *all* the same ...

twistedmonk

2h/bow is by far the easiest to play and overall most effective setup for most situations for all 4 classes.

There are ways they could fix things.

Like make all gap closers have a timer so you can't zoom across the battle field or spam ambush on people. so many possibilities.

Rally is way too good. it was changed back when 2-hander was garbage. now its just ridiculous - long buff + hot + heal on demand....ok

and shuffle is bugged to heck. with 20% dodge rate, its should be improbably you can dodge 3+ things in a row, but it happens all the time.

vigor heal = get rid of it. that way you would have to rely on magic healers in pvp and not just solo.

dodge rolls should be its own resource like most games - so you can twice and its on a slow timer.

bring back softcaps so you can't maximize sustain, damage and surviviability.

champion system is ridiculous. but you can always just play on no CP azuras

Makkir

They all play stam sorcs I hear

Sandman929

twistedmonk wrote: »

2h/bow is by far the easiest to play and overall most effective setup for most situations for all 4 classes.

There are ways they could fix things.

Like make all gap closers have a timer so you can't zoom across the battle field or spam ambush on people. so many possibilities.

Rally is way too good. it was changed back when 2-hander was garbage. now its just ridiculous - long buff + hot + heal on demand....ok

and shuffle is bugged to heck. with 20% dodge rate, its should be improbably you can dodge 3+ things in a row, but it happens all the time.

vigor heal = get rid of it. that way you would have to rely on magic healers in pvp and not just solo.

dodge rolls should be its own resource like most games - so you can twice and its on a slow timer.

bring back softcaps so you can't maximize sustain, damage and surviviability.

champion system is ridiculous. but you can always just play on no CP azuras

Too many people whining that they can't do everything with their class, so now we have a homogeneous classless PvP atmosphere of solo builds. Characters that aren't healers should need healers, rather than be handed a means to heal themselves.

MoeCoastie

Ive never been a fan of vigor. As a stamNB, play is more interesting without it...feels way more tanky than I would expect with it.

Preyfar

Stamina builds really don't have many choices for class skills so they end up relying on weapon and fighters' guild skills along with Vigor. It's hard to make a unique build when the game kind of pushes you into the same limitations.

Bakven

SirAndy wrote: »

Bakven wrote: »

You see the exact same thing. 2h and bow.

Funny because my Stamblade doesn't use 2H, so no, they're not *all* the same ...

read the title. Most.

Bakven

Don't get me wrong. I'm a small group/solo player so I don't mind having the ability to heal, sustain, and do damage. But some things do need to change to allow more build diversity. @Zos needs to not make some weapon skills so useful and others so useless. When people can only spam dizzy swing and executioner, it's both boring to fight and doesn't exactly show any skill. But people are forced to do that because of the lack of skill diversity. I can understand FOTM builds, but this isn't that. This is @Zos doing the stupid thing and making the game unbalanced and forcing stamina builds to use the same weapons and skills. "Play how you want" my ass.

Kelces

Most people simply lack creativity or just want to be "godlike" and avoid real challenges, same with tanking.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the cookie cutter frags frags frags and more frags ? Then snipe snipe snipe and then RD RD RD and more RD ?....

What's your point exactly ? A majority of pvp players be ESO, WoW, Runescape or what ever will use what has been proven to be the "meta build" because they care about being "the best player"..... Yes know what you are thinking those players are [words can not be repeated] and are killing the game but what can the original thinking players can do ? Cookie cutter builds > Original builds sad but true.

Bakven

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the cookie cutter frags frags frags and more frags ? Then snipe snipe snipe and then RD RD RD and more RD ?....

What's your point exactly ? A majority of pvp players be ESO, WoW, Runescape or what ever will use what has been proven to be the "meta build" because they care about being "the best player"..... Yes know what you are thinking those players are [words can not be repeated] and are killing the game but what can the original thinking players can do ? Cookie cutter builds > Original builds sad but true.

The problem isn't that everyone is using the same build. The problem is Zos doesn't allow anything but one kind of build. This shows a huge imbalance in the game. It's not a stamina vs magicka thing. It's that all the skills in 2h are so much better than skills in SnB, DW, and even class skills. It puts people who want to run something unique at a disadvantage when there shouldn't be such a huge gap in how good the skills are between the weapon skills. It makes the different classes completely useless. When there's literally only 1 or 2 class skills used on both bars and the rest is weapon and armor skills it's basically saying if you're stamina it doesn't matter what class you are, just equip 2h and bow and you're good to go. Might as well just get rid of classes and other weapons all together if you choose a stamina build

Forestd16b14_ESO

Bakven wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the cookie cutter frags frags frags and more frags ? Then snipe snipe snipe and then RD RD RD and more RD ?....

What's your point exactly ? A majority of pvp players be ESO, WoW, Runescape or what ever will use what has been proven to be the "meta build" because they care about being "the best player"..... Yes know what you are thinking those players are [words can not be repeated] and are killing the game but what can the original thinking players can do ? Cookie cutter builds > Original builds sad but true.

The problem isn't that everyone is using the same build. The problem is Zos doesn't allow anything but one kind of build. This shows a huge imbalance in the game. It's not a stamina vs magicka thing. It's that all the skills in 2h are so much better than skills in SnB, DW, and even class skills. It puts people who want to run something unique at a disadvantage when there shouldn't be such a huge gap in how good the skills are between the weapon skills. It makes the different classes completely useless. When there's literally only 1 or 2 class skills used on both bars and the rest is weapon and armor skills it's basically saying if you're stamina it doesn't matter what class you are, just equip 2h and bow and you're good to go. Might as well just get rid of classes and other weapons all together if you choose a stamina build

Of course the game is imbalanced a well know head of combat design dev is in charge of balancing and he really has no idea what he is doing. I love 2H been using it since my first days of MMORPGing when I was like 8 and yes 2H is power but what you want ? It is a giant sword, axe, and or hammer and sword and shield play was normally meant for a defensive style of play. As for dual wield well maybe ti could be buffed up cause pretty sure the blood craze and flurry heals were meant to replace rally but damage base heal/ DoT base heal VS a burst heal ? Which you think players are gonna go towards.

Now really want to balance around SnS could block more and reduce blocking more and have a better healing skill besides absorb magic seeing how the weapon is meant for tanking. Dual wield blood craze and flurry could heal more such as blood craze DoT getting buffed by 150% and flurry healing could be 500% instead of 300% on the final strike.

Bakven

Get rid of all weapon hots. Simple as that. Or make the others as good as rally.