Give me an example of why creating bags are pay to win?

hydrocynus

How do they make you more powerful in PVP?

How do they make you more powerful in PVE?

What advantage do they give you that will make you win in those situations that makes them classed as pay to win?

Epona222

And we need another thread about craft bags, why?

hydrocynus

It seems all the rage.

Curragraigue

Nerf bag threads they are too OP forum users are getting rekt.

Whatzituyah

Curragraigue wrote: »

Nerf bag threads they are too OP forum users are getting rekt.

Nerf nerf bag thread nerfers @Curragraigue

hydrocynus

Curragraigue wrote: »

Nerf bag threads they are too OP forum users are getting rekt.

Lol I actually agree. Why oh why did I do it?

Gidorick

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

Aisle9

I think the idea is that "If I cry loud enough about it, I will eventually get it" ... I guess ?

I don't know, I might be wrong about it, but that's what it looks like to me...


*edit*
Ah, no, wait, I just realized the OP is against posting about crafting bags... so he made a post about crafting bags ?

@hydrocynus why did you do that... xD

Taisynn

Please for heavens sake stop beating the dead horse. It's been dead for a long time... It's actually starting to decompose.

redspecter23

The bags are not pay to win. They are an extremely useful gimmick to get those that bought the DLC's to then resub for the bags instead of allowing them to continue on with their preferred payment model and buy as they go. My best guess is that after a month (and a bunch of resubs) they will release the bags in the store for those they couldn't trick into resubbing again.

What this will accomplish is create a negative impact for those that choose not to sub and instead purchase the DLC's as they go. Anyone in the future will feel like a fool if they choose that method of payment as they may miss out on exclusive game play features like this which amounts to another 400 or so account bound item slots. I have to assume this is their intention. To make people feel like idiots for buying the DLC's instead of subbing. Even if they aren't consciously doing this, it will be how some people feel. This is the fail of the craft bags. It could have been a huge win all around. Free for subs. Purchasable for non subs but they instead chose an implementation that causes some people to question if they should buy crowns and give money to ZoS in that way. To me, it's just simple logic that they should have gone with the method where everyone can have bags, regardless of their method of payment.

Vangy

Gidorick wrote: »

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

@Gidorick
With 8 toons all master crafter, 160+ slots on each toon + maxed bank slots, I dont see anything broken with the current system. Pray tell what is exactly broken? Yeah it takes a little time moving between toons to get what I need done, but that's just a matter of convenience. Sometimes I toss out stuff that's obsolete or really common such as the basic trait/style stones to make space for some new shiny stuff I find along the way but that's totally cool. I can get those stuff for like a stack of 200 for like 100 gold or something via trader.

hydrocynus

Aisle9 wrote: »

I think the idea is that "If I cry loud enough about it, I will eventually get it" ... I guess ?

I don't know, I might be wrong about it, but that's what it looks like to me...


*edit*
Ah, no, wait, I just realized the OP is against posting about crafting bags... so he made a post about crafting bags ?

@hydrocynus why did you do that... xD

@Aisle9 it was a temporary lack of concentration and my fingers slipped

Turelus

If it took gaining crafting bags to make you think ESO Plus was pay to win then you have a strange sense of what's pay to win.

Considering that ESO Plus has had more XP, Gold, Research Times, Access to content than you since it launched.

More likely people cry it's pay to win because someone else is getting something they're not and they don't want to pay for it, and they believe screaming pay to win will make ZOS do a 180 and realise that it's bad.

The fact we have so many threads and so many people wanting these bags is a good thing, it means ZOS hit the mark on something which is desired and makes subscribing more appealing.

Aisle9

Let's be honest here

This just a shameless way to rack up post count by trying to make it look like we're discussing a very important topic ...

I'm all for it, I like dem little stars, but... let's be honest... come on

At this point it's just

Genomic

redspecter23 wrote: »

The bags are not pay to win. They are an extremely useful gimmick to get those that bought the DLC's to then resub for the bags instead of allowing them to continue on with their preferred payment model and buy as they go. My best guess is that after a month (and a bunch of resubs) they will release the bags in the store for those they couldn't trick into resubbing again.

This. Double dipping. Also, those subbing will be enticed to spend more than their allocated crowns by adding things like overpriced 'limited edition' crown store items (which of course is deliberately manipulative - crown store items can't 'run out').

Then there's modifying RNG on items that are in-game and in the crown store (again, arbitrary and deliberately manipulative - RNG can be whatever they set it and all it costs them is 10 mins to alter a multiplier in the code), such that the drop rate is so low people become frustrated enough just to drop the cash. With B2P ESO has become much more of a marketing exercise.

Sunburnt_Penguin

Nothing will be said here that hasn't been said on other posts. Move along, folks.

hydrocynus

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Nothing will be said here that hasn't been said on other posts. Move along, folks.

@Sunburnt_Penguin therefore no one has answered this question in other threads because there is no valid answer.

Conclusion: crafting bags give no advantage and so I agree. Get over it people and move on.

Sunburnt_Penguin

hydrocynus wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Nothing will be said here that hasn't been said on other posts. Move along, folks.

@Sunburnt_Penguin therefore no one has answered this question in other threads because there is no valid answer.

Conclusion: crafting bags give no advantage and so I agree. Get over it people and move on.

You create a post asking a question to which there's "no valid answer" and you tell people to "get over it and move on".

Do you not see the irony in that?

Rev Rielle

Honestly. It's all about an individual's definition of 'Win'.

If by having fun playing this game you consider yourself winning and the crafting bags provide an avenue to significantly increase your fun in the game, then I can theoretically see how some people could call it 'pay to win'.
That reasoning can however - and probably should - be extended to the fact that we all brought the game to begin with, so we're all paying to win in one for or another, and arguing the finer points is just semantics.

I think that highlights (hopefully) how silly the pay to win cliche that is thrown around really is in this instance.

willymchilybily

Subscriptions are better for the games development.

when you can subscribe and get crowns only to unsubscribe after buying the DLC and pay effectively for one or two of the three months between the quarterly DLCs, ZOS will be losing out on a lot of potential revenue/stability.

They Do need to give greater incentive to sub and stay subbed. (id suggest increased benefits for duration of sub; Each month you have been subbed benefits increase and other benefits are introduced)

SO i dont even care if bags are pay to win. Or if they introduced new P2W benefits,

because if they could use the stability and turnover to then fix the bugs and churn out dlc of a better quality (instead of rushing it out every quarter so people are less likely to unsubscrribe inbetween). then my gaming experience overall would improve. the negative impact of P2W would be less than the benefit of a better game.

Aisle9

Gidorick

Vangy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

@Gidorick
With 8 toons all master crafter, 160+ slots on each toon + maxed bank slots, I dont see anything broken with the current system. Pray tell what is exactly broken? Yeah it takes a little time moving between toons to get what I need done, but that's just a matter of convenience. Sometimes I toss out stuff that's obsolete or really common such as the basic trait/style stones to make space for some new shiny stuff I find along the way but that's totally cool. I can get those stuff for like a stack of 200 for like 100 gold or something via trader.

@Vangy , ZOS needs to also consider the player who has one character with no inventory upgrades. Sure, upgrading inventory is a part of the game so that mechanic is important to keep intact, but telling someone who doesn't have a bunch of alts and maxed out inventories that the solution is to get alts and max out their inventories isn't exactly a solution, nor is it helpful to that player.

Mirelurk

Imagine, if you will, a sorc ...

... with lotsa shields ...

AND

... a crafting bag!

CherryCake

Soon there will be no other conversations on this forum except for the bag. People complain about the bag, and other people feel the need to complain about those that complain about the bag, and here I am complaining of those that complain about those that complain about the bag!!! :'(

Vangy

Gidorick wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

@Gidorick
With 8 toons all master crafter, 160+ slots on each toon + maxed bank slots, I dont see anything broken with the current system. Pray tell what is exactly broken? Yeah it takes a little time moving between toons to get what I need done, but that's just a matter of convenience. Sometimes I toss out stuff that's obsolete or really common such as the basic trait/style stones to make space for some new shiny stuff I find along the way but that's totally cool. I can get those stuff for like a stack of 200 for like 100 gold or something via trader.

@Vangy , ZOS needs to also consider the player who has one character with no inventory upgrades. Sure, upgrading inventory is a part of the game so that mechanic is important to keep intact, but telling someone who doesn't have a bunch of alts and maxed out inventories that the solution is to get alts and max out their inventories isn't exactly a solution, nor is it helpful to that player.

@Gidorick
P2W means something a feature you cannot access without paying. Making alts is free. Increasing bank space can be done via gold. Basically just means you need to spend more time. Just getting an alt to level 10 which can be done in around 30 minutes grants you access to a bank and 60 bag slots.... After that its just a matter of gold... So my POV differs from yours considerably it would seem. Time consuming to me is fine. Creating a new alt in 5 minutes for 60 slots is literally no cost in my POV and is very helpful to new players who may not know how easy it is to get access to another 60 slots... Ideally Id like ZOS to remove bank cap and bag cap so everyone can have access to all their storage needs. Hopefully that will come in the near future.

Gidorick

Vangy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

@Gidorick
With 8 toons all master crafter, 160+ slots on each toon + maxed bank slots, I dont see anything broken with the current system. Pray tell what is exactly broken? Yeah it takes a little time moving between toons to get what I need done, but that's just a matter of convenience. Sometimes I toss out stuff that's obsolete or really common such as the basic trait/style stones to make space for some new shiny stuff I find along the way but that's totally cool. I can get those stuff for like a stack of 200 for like 100 gold or something via trader.

@Vangy , ZOS needs to also consider the player who has one character with no inventory upgrades. Sure, upgrading inventory is a part of the game so that mechanic is important to keep intact, but telling someone who doesn't have a bunch of alts and maxed out inventories that the solution is to get alts and max out their inventories isn't exactly a solution, nor is it helpful to that player.

@Gidorick
P2W means something a feature you cannot access without paying. Making alts is free. Increasing bank space can be done via gold. Basically just means you need to spend more time. Just getting an alt to level 10 which can be done in around 30 minutes grants you access to a bank and 60 bag slots.... After that its just a matter of gold... So my POV differs from yours considerably it would seem. Time consuming to me is fine. Creating a new alt in 5 minutes for 60 slots is literally no cost in my POV and is very helpful to new players who may not know how easy it is to get access to another 60 slots... Ideally Id like ZOS to remove bank cap and bag cap so everyone can have access to all their storage needs. Hopefully that will come in the near future.

I said absolutely nothing about the bags being pay to win @Vangy , actually I said the opposite.

Gidorick wrote: »

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

Also, it seems you are suggesting creating alts as inventory mules... something I have spoken out time and time again on these forums. Not a solution. I'm fine with time consuming as well. If players could earn the bags in game through some time sink, this wouldn't be an issue.

I want solutions that don't involve exploiting game mechanics and don't involve being manipulated back into a subscription.

I honestly don't think that's too much to ask.

hydrocynus

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

hydrocynus wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

Nothing will be said here that hasn't been said on other posts. Move along, folks.

@Sunburnt_Penguin therefore no one has answered this question in other threads because there is no valid answer.

Conclusion: crafting bags give no advantage and so I agree. Get over it people and move on.

You create a post asking a question to which there's "no valid answer" and you tell people to "get over it and move on".

Do you not see the irony in that?

Yes I Do. Because I know there is no answer to the question. That is why I asked it.

hydrocynus

Rev Rielle wrote: »

Honestly. It's all about an individual's definition of 'Win'.

If by having fun playing this game you consider yourself winning and the crafting bags provide an avenue to significantly increase your fun in the game, then I can theoretically see how some people could call it 'pay to win'.
That reasoning can however - and probably should - be extended to the fact that we all brought the game to begin with, so we're all paying to win in one for or another, and arguing the finer points is just semantics.

I think that highlights (hopefully) how silly the pay to win cliche that is thrown around really is in this instance.

Exactly my point. The people saying it is pay to win are delusional.

hydrocynus

Mirelurk wrote: »

Imagine, if you will, a sorc ...

... with lotsa shields ...

AND

... a crafting bag!

Mirelurk wrote: »

Imagine, if you will, a sorc ...

... with lotsa shields ...

AND

... a crafting bag!

Hahahaha. I think we are all in agreement here.

Vangy

Gidorick wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

@Gidorick
With 8 toons all master crafter, 160+ slots on each toon + maxed bank slots, I dont see anything broken with the current system. Pray tell what is exactly broken? Yeah it takes a little time moving between toons to get what I need done, but that's just a matter of convenience. Sometimes I toss out stuff that's obsolete or really common such as the basic trait/style stones to make space for some new shiny stuff I find along the way but that's totally cool. I can get those stuff for like a stack of 200 for like 100 gold or something via trader.

@Vangy , ZOS needs to also consider the player who has one character with no inventory upgrades. Sure, upgrading inventory is a part of the game so that mechanic is important to keep intact, but telling someone who doesn't have a bunch of alts and maxed out inventories that the solution is to get alts and max out their inventories isn't exactly a solution, nor is it helpful to that player.

@Gidorick
P2W means something a feature you cannot access without paying. Making alts is free. Increasing bank space can be done via gold. Basically just means you need to spend more time. Just getting an alt to level 10 which can be done in around 30 minutes grants you access to a bank and 60 bag slots.... After that its just a matter of gold... So my POV differs from yours considerably it would seem. Time consuming to me is fine. Creating a new alt in 5 minutes for 60 slots is literally no cost in my POV and is very helpful to new players who may not know how easy it is to get access to another 60 slots... Ideally Id like ZOS to remove bank cap and bag cap so everyone can have access to all their storage needs. Hopefully that will come in the near future.

I said absolutely nothing about the bags being pay to win @Vangy , actually I said the opposite.

Gidorick wrote: »

By the divines... you people are being purposefully obtuse. That's the only explanation that makes sense.

The bags are NOT pay to win or anything of the sort. They are an example of ZOS placing a FIX to a broken system behind a subscription. It's shady and it's manipulative.

Also, it seems you are suggesting creating alts as inventory mules... something I have spoken out time and time again on these forums. Not a solution. I'm fine with time consuming as well. If players could earn the bags in game through some time sink, this wouldn't be an issue.

I want solutions that don't involve exploiting game mechanics and don't involve being manipulated back into a subscription.

I honestly don't think that's too much to ask.

@Gidorick
Oh no. My alts started out as mules when my main lacked the gold to upgrade bank slots as a short term solution! Now they are all full fledged v16 gold gear toons fully functional!! They are all master crafters with almost all the skill points they could ever need. I was merely pointing out that one can get around the gold deficit that new players face by getting an alt up to 10 quickly! Ive got enough slots to store everything without relegating my toons to mule status. Sure they started off that way but now each of them has like a 170 bag slot and max bank cap I think. More than enough for all my hoarding needs lol. Also they P2W thing was me making a reference to the OPs title. Like I was trying to say we don't need craft bags to store all our stuff.

Knightpanther

This Bag stuffs getting boring now