I just don't understand some of these changes: The Unheard Cries of a Sorc

Kildayen

I've always played magic based classes. I was never a fan of the stamina based classes. Ultimately, my favorite class has always been a Sorcerer / Wizard. These classes have always used the power of magic to destroy their targets. The power of lightning, fire, and invisible forces of magic would help in AOE situations. A Sorc was also the master of single target high burst damage. We would also be able to lock enemies down with the forces of magic. We would have super powerful shields to protect us from certain types of destruction. What ZOS is doing (and has done in the past) to Sorcs just makes zero sense to me. Right now with the changes on PTS, magicka Sorc just isn't a thing anymore. How can a class that has always been super powerful with magic now have to rely on stamina to be worth any kind of usable damage? Why? Who's wonderful ideas are these? What have you done to my favorite class to play? Instead of adding new magic based abilities, you are taking away from what we have and forcing us to use stamina if we want to have decent numbers. I just don't understand it. You are taking the things that make a sorc what it is and just removing our identity. Why? I speak from both a PVP and PVE standpoint. What is going on? It is enough that we are limited in our choices to provide magic based DPS to a fight, and I don't like using Overload for anything more than magicka regen.

You have some great changes coming with the DB DLC. I love the crafting bags. I love the nameplates. The removal of Vet Ranks for those who have multiple characters is good so they don't have to grind as much. I like the changes you have made to the weapon and armor traits. I like the new appearance changes too. Good stuff!

Some of the changes I disagree with:

Let's start with the shields. Not just Sorc shields. A shield that is accessible to everyone.

Harness Magicka: Why did you decide that out of all the skills out there, this skill is the one that should block physical damage too? This is a LIGHT ARMOR skill that is called Harness "MAGICKA". This was a skill used mostly by magic based classes that protected us against magic damage. Why should everyone use a light armor skill to protect from physical damage? Not only have you made a change that makes no sense, but you have taken away a VERY IMPORTANT part of this skill. The ability to effectively use it to protect players against magic based attacks and restore magic. Now with the changes on PTS I have to worry that it will absorb physical damage instead and because of doing so I will not get any magic restored nor be protected from it. What the heck? You did this so everyone can have a shield now? If you want to play a class that has a shield, make a Sorc. Thats it. Why ruin a skill so that everyone can have access to a Sorc based skill. This change should not go through. You are ruining a skill. Please reverse this change. If you absolutely insist that everyone should have a shield, make it a Resto Staff ability. Or how about just stop listening to people who are crying because they don't have a shield like the one that Sorcs have and tell them to just play their class and stop complaining, or create a Sorc if they want one that bad.

The change to the duration of shields is another thing that was taken too far. Once again I feel this is something that was done so the people who don't know how to get through a shield could have a better chance of doing so. How about just learn how to play your class and figure out how to break the shield? The length of time doesn't affect anything really. If you are using shields and relying on them to survive in PVP, you are most likely spamming them anyway and lacking in the DPS department. There are other ways to live. You know, learn your class and what offensive abilities you have to lock down and wear your opponent out. These shortened durations negatively affect the entire PVE side of using them and you are now using more magicka to keep them active because of having to recast them more often.

Sorcs barely have any class based damage abilities that are worth anything. That is why we have the defensive abilities. Skills like Daedric Mines will do little damage but stun the enemy. Rune Cage/Defensive Rune to disorient the enemy. Encase to immobilize the enemy. Hardened Ward - one of the Sorcs best defensive abilities. Now because people complain instead of learning how to play, ZOS has given EVERYONE access to this Sorc based skill. Fine, you want everyone to have a shield like this, don't ruin Harness Magicka and make another skill to do it. More importantly, don't take away from what the Sorc has. A special ability that protected us that no other class had. If everyone is going to have this same skill, make the Sorc version much better. Decrease the time a little bit if you want, but not so extreme. I don't care if the Hardened stacks with the new PTS version of Harness Magicka. I am a Sorc. This is an ability I have always had that other classes did not. It is one of the reasons I chose a Sorc as my main character. I don't want the physical damage protection from the new version of Harness. I want the magic defense from Harness and the physical from Ward. I want longer times on them too, not this new 6 seconds crap.

Harness Magicka is fine the way it is on live. Don't add the physical damage protection and continue to allow everyone to use it with a 26 seconds duration. Hardened Ward should still last 20 seconds and should be a Sorc ability only. If you want a physical damage shield, make a class that has one. If you complain because you can't kill someone with a physical damage shield, learn how to counter it. Don't nerf it.

Not only did the shields get the negative changes, but now our Surge ability got hit with the hammer. Why oh why? Who thought that this ability was overpowered and needed a nerf? This ability should still heal you for 40% of the damage done. You do a lot less damage in PVP, so I don't see it being overpowered there. And It is a skill that I don't even use in PVP. It is something to help us survive in PVE situations. It is another form of one of our defensive skills. Now all of a sudden it is too powerful and needs to change. Who's idea was this and why was this decision made?

Another thing I dislike is the change to Inevitable Detonation. I know that Inev/Proxy was created to break up zergs in PVP. Although I did use the Proxy form of that sometimes in PVP, Proxy was not my normal morph of it, and I know plenty of other people who used Inevitable the same way I did. For the Sorc class which lacks variety in damage abilities, the Inevitable Detonation morph of this skill was something we carried on our skill bar to use as single target burst damage. This was very important for some of us. That burst damage put us a little closer to where a Sorc should be. Now it is changed so that it will hardly do any single target damage at all and will grow in strength with the more people it hits. Ok, that is great! It is good for this skill to scale up and hit harder when there are more people/mobs around it, but do both morphs have to be changed this way? Can you make the change to Proximity Detonation to do this and let us keep Inevitable Detonation as a single target spell that keeps the high single target damage and maybe nerf the added AOE damage? Or even better, create a Sorcerer skill that does this. We should have a burst skill like this in our inventory. Please don't take this skill away from us. Doesn't even have to be a Sorc skill. Make it an everyone skill. I just don't want to lose it.

ZOS please stop ruining our class. If you want to play a stamina class, make a stamina class. Sorcs have always been magicka. Or how about you create new classes instead of changing the current ones? The only reason Sorcs have stamina based skills in ESO is because there are only 4 classes in this game. Stop harassing the classes and make something new.

I'm sure there are many people who are pleased to see the new poisons added to the game. I am not one of them, but nothing I can do about that. I will just have to learn to adapt. I would rather you just made a new class that was more poison based instead of making it something that I have to deal with against everyone in PVP now. And the whole 60% damage thing... I have no words. I don't want to use it in PVE to up my Sorc DPS. I want Sorc skills to do that. I don't care for the new poisons.

I want the old Surge back.

I want the old Harness Magicka back.

I want Hardened Ward to be a special ability that Sorcs have and I want it to still last for 20 seconds.

I want Inevitable Detonation or something like it that will still do the high single target damage.

I don't want to play stamina.

Most of all, I want to enjoy playing this game on the class that I've always played. You are taking all the enjoyment away from me, ZOS. Please please please communicate better with your player base and make us feel as though you appreciate us and respect us instead of making us feel that you could care less about us. I have been a paying subscriber since February of 2014. I have over 136 days /played on my Sorc and near 16,000 achievement points. I love this game. I have dealt with a bunch of changes, both negative and positive, but the changes that are coming with DB are something that might just finally make me unsubscribe for good. I'm already pretty bored with the game. I was looking forward to the added content and new changes so I could feel refreshed, but got a real wakeup call when I saw some of the things you had planned for us. Please don't make me leave. I really like it here.

- Kildayen

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

Lynx7386

Sounds like you're incapable of adapting to change. An mmo is probably the wrong kind of game to be playing, things change here all the time

XaXa

Yeah I'm confused about your post. You don't NEED to use stamina to do damage. the passive changes are long needed for Stamina Sorcs who (According to ESO Lore) are what sorcs actually are.

Kildayen

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Sounds like you're incapable of adapting to change. An mmo is probably the wrong kind of game to be playing, things change here all the time

Totally capable of adapting and am used to the changing in MMOs as I've been playing them since Everquest. I just want the core of a Sorc to be what a Sorc has always been. Magic.

Stamina is secondary. It doesn't make sense that stamina would be more powerful than magic when playing a class that has always been known for magic based damage.

Kildayen

XaXa wrote: »

Yeah I'm confused about your post. You don't NEED to use stamina to do damage. the passive changes are long needed for Stamina Sorcs who (According to ESO Lore) are what sorcs actually are.

I know I don't have to use stamina to do damage, and I don't want to. The problem comes when a Stamina Sorc becomes more powerful than a Magicka Sorc. This is the first Elder Scrolls game I have ever played, so I am not aware of Sorcs actually being stamina based. If this is true, then I guess I am wrong when it comes to this game. In every other game I have played a Sorc, they have always been magic based.

HuawaSepp

It's true.
In TES a class means that you have abilities common for this class.
But a sorc should not be worse in melting enemys with the pure power of his axe than a knight.
I like this.

Kildayen

I guess I need to stop comparing ESO to the other MMOs I have played. My bad.

XaXa

Its more ZoS fault for not really following lore. There are casters that are the stereotypical "Sorc" from other MMOs.

In TES lore though a Sorcerer typically wears heavier armor and wields weapons. they use their magical abilities more to buff themselves and their weapons.

Its a common mistake so I wouldn't worry about it.

I do agree that ZoS should make a post saying what their vision of the class is though now that we are going through all these changes.

Kildayen

XaXa wrote: »

Its more ZoS fault for not really following lore. There are casters that are the stereotypical "Sorc" from other MMOs.

In TES lore though a Sorcerer typically wears heavier armor and wields weapons. they use their magical abilities more to buff themselves and their weapons.

Its a common mistake so I wouldn't worry about it.

I do agree that ZoS should make a post saying what their vision of the class is though now that we are going through all these changes.

Thanks for the info.

ostrapz

couple things i felt need to be said
1. Stam sorc is definitely not stronger than magicka sorc and is easily weakest stam class and i dont anticipate thay changing much next patch. Im assuming your referring to the passive changes to inlcude physical damage as well. The key word is include, magicka sorc damage was unchanged here
2. Harness magcika will protect both forms of damage so the thought that your "magicka shield" soaking physical damage is negative in any way other than the loss of regen is foolish, this is a buff if anything giving you two sheilds to stack/rotate with new 6sec duration
3. Hardened ward is not a "copy" of harness now, its still stronger than harness and if that duration is scaring you run empowered for 10sec duration, just a suggestion
4. Prox/inevitable det were always intended to be used against a group and i dont think it was ever intended to be used so heavily for single target. Good news is on a good build you could still used it for probably around 4k damage single target if you want another dps move
5. Mines dont do "little damage" 2-3 mines will kill almost anyone who runs over them simultaneously

I think its too early to say sorcs are doomed, they have remained near top of food chain for awhile

Grao

ostrapz wrote: »

couple things i felt need to be said
1. Stam sorc is definitely not stronger than magicka sorc and is easily weakest stam class and i dont anticipate thay changing much next patch. Im assuming your referring to the passive changes to inlcude physical damage as well. The key word is include, magicka sorc damage was unchanged here
2. Harness magcika will protect both forms of damage so the thought that your "magicka shield" soaking physical damage is negative in any way other than the loss of regen is foolish, this is a buff if anything giving you two sheilds to stack/rotate with new 6sec duration
3. Hardened ward is not a "copy" of harness now, its still stronger than harness and if that duration is scaring you run empowered for 10sec duration, just a suggestion
4. Prox/inevitable det were always intended to be used against a group and i dont think it was ever intended to be used so heavily for single target. Good news is on a good build you could still used it for probably around 4k damage single target if you want another dps move
5. Mines dont do "little damage" 2-3 mines will kill almost anyone who runs over them simultaneously

I think its too early to say sorcs are doomed, they have remained near top of food chain for awhile

Ok, I feel the need to correct a few of your statements there...

1. True, Stamina sorcerers are not likely to be stronger than Magicka, but while the passive in question does still benefit magicka sorcerers, its benefits to stamina are now far greater. The passive affects all physical for stamina builds, but only shock damage for sorcerers. Considering we are not able to use a lightning staff as its heavy attacking is so bugged and simply bad, that passive sees limited use by magicka sorcerers.
2. and 3. To point you are right, Ward still offers a larger shield than Harness Magicka, but Harness Magicka was buffed to compensate the loss in duration, Meanwhile Ward was simply nerfed without any compensation, its cost was not reduced and nothing about it suffered positive changes. Considering pet builds are extremely reliant on this ability and were already near to nonviable, I believe ward should be buffed to heal pets besides protecting them with a larger shield than in Live (so pets may actually survive in fights). Also, maybe in PvP sorcerers have enough bar space to run the two shields, in PvE, we barely have enough space for one shield as we have too much toggleness to juggle.
4. That we are so desperate for another single target DPS ability that isn't Force Pulse shows how badly the class needs their own spammable ability.
5. It used to be that Mines would all explode on the same target in PvE and thus they were good DPS. That is no longer the case. In PvP the person has to be a complete moron to trigger more than one mine...

Lucky28

XaXa wrote: »

Its more ZoS fault for not really following lore. There are casters that are the stereotypical "Sorc" from other MMOs.

In TES lore though a Sorcerer typically wears heavier armor and wields weapons. they use their magical abilities more to buff themselves and their weapons.

Its a common mistake so I wouldn't worry about it.

I do agree that ZoS should make a post saying what their vision of the class is though now that we are going through all these changes.

not really. in TES "mages" are more varied battlemages, spell swords your typical mage caster type etc. but of course in eso you're limited to pretty much just Magicka or Stamina. because (obviously) in TES there are no "classes" which i at least understand that deviation, that would be a nightmare to balance.

Regardless. change in an MMO is one this. however, i would expect 'competence' from the devs who are handling these changes. sadly, @Wroble has not displayed such with this patch. He claims in the ESO live that he values "uniqueness" in the classes however with the changes to sorc the class is now not unique in any way shape or form he stripped that all from the class.

Grao

Lucky28 wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Its more ZoS fault for not really following lore. There are casters that are the stereotypical "Sorc" from other MMOs.

In TES lore though a Sorcerer typically wears heavier armor and wields weapons. they use their magical abilities more to buff themselves and their weapons.

Its a common mistake so I wouldn't worry about it.

I do agree that ZoS should make a post saying what their vision of the class is though now that we are going through all these changes.

not really. in TES "mages" are more varied battlemages, spell swords your typical mage caster type etc. but of course in eso you're limited to pretty much just Magicka or Stamina. because (obviously) in TES there are no "classes" which i at least understand that deviation, that would be a nightmare to balance.

Regardless. change in an MMO is one this. however, i would expect 'competence' from the devs who are handling these changes sadly, @Wroble has not not displayed such with this patch. He claims in the ESO live that he values "uniqueness" in the classes however which the changes to sorc the class is now not unique in any way shape or form he stripped that all from the class.

You are wrong, sorcerers are uniquely weak and unfun to play. He got the uniqueness he was looking to design.

Rilmarshim

A little bit offtopic but I still can't understand how proxy can resolve the problem of zergs? And how VD set should do it? All I see is zergs with proxy in VD set.

HuawaSepp

Dr_Talos wrote: »

A little bit offtopic but I still can't understand how proxy can resolve the problem of zergs? And how VD set should do it? All I see is zergs with proxy in VD set.

They try to farm ap from unskilled players as a zerg that communicates over TS.
If there are unskilled players around you can't attack them in meele range, if not they are f...ed

But about sorcs, they are forced to use weapon skills the most of all classes because they have a whole skilltree with useless skills.
They should just cut this whole summoning stuff.
Or does soemone really need this?

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Sounds like you're incapable of adapting to change. An mmo is probably the wrong kind of game to be playing, things change here all the time

i play A LOT of mmo's, and eso is the only one that changes their class skills so VERY drastically every major update

bloodenragedb14_ESO

BTW, in lore, All sorcerer skills still used magicka, they were still a magicka focused class.

from the wiki, on sorcerers in morrowind

"Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."

from the wiki on sorcerers in oblivion

"Boasting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb magicka from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more magicka than any other mage class."

IN LORE, it they were still a magicka focused class, they just wore heavy armor and had ALOT of magicka. There is no instance in lore that suggests they drew upon their stamina for spellcasting.

Look, you guys want to make stamina sorcerers relevant, fine, i wont stop you from asking that, but magicka sorcerers should not have to donate anything to a spec that defies the logic of the class.

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

BTW, in lore, All sorcerer skills still used magicka, they were still a magicka focused class.

from the wiki, on sorcerers in morrowind

"Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."

from the wiki on sorcerers in oblivion

"Boasting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb magicka from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more magicka than any other mage class."

IN LORE, it they were still a magicka focused class, they just wore heavy armor and had ALOT of magicka. There is no instance in lore that suggests they drew upon their stamina for spellcasting.

Look, you guys want to make stamina sorcerers relevant, fine, i wont stop you from asking that, but magicka sorcerers should not have to donate anything to a spec that defies the logic of the class.

I don't think you are wrong, actually I made that exact point before quoting those passages of the Wikis as well. Even while using blades and heavy armor, sorcerers in ESO still traditionally do significant magic damage, far more than physical damage, thus they scale with their magicka and spell power.

Alas, I don't think there is anything wrong with a sorcerer that focuses more heavily in their weapon mastery and with our skill trees in shambles as they are now, we have quite a few useless skills to donate to the Stamina Group (obviously those skills would need to be reworked).

I still believe stamina builds should use class skills more to buff them selves and debuff enemies than to cause direct damage. As it is I believe most of the passives are fine and some of the skills too, I'd replace the stamina morph for Useless Exchange for a Morph for Crystal Shards though. Crystal Blast is not widely used by sorcerers and that skill is a staple of ESO sorcerer. A stamina morph could be made a hard cast that besides damaging also applied a debuff for a few seconds, Major Fracture probably being the best alternative.

Crystal Strike: Conjure dark crystals to wound an enemy, dealing X Physical Damage and weakening them.
Weakened enemies are afflicted with Major Breach and Major Fracture for Y seconds.

That would be an instant cast skill though likely a little too heavy on the stamina cost to be a spammable ability.

In the place of Useless Exchange I'd have Magicka Sorcerer's spammable ability:

Dark Exchange: Leaches an enemy's strength dealing X Magic Damage and healing the caster by Y% of the damage inflicted.

Dark Touch: Leaches an enemy's strength dealing X Magic Damage and healing the caster by Y% of the damage inflicted.
Additionally curses the enemy causing Z damage every second for 5 seconds.

Dark Conversion: Leaches an enemy's strength dealing X Magic Damage and healing the caster by Y% of the damage inflicted.
Additionally regains Z% of the damage inflicted as Magicka. (Alternatively, this ability can offer an interrupt instead of Magicka return. I understand some may believe the magicka drain to be overpowered, but I wanted the skill to retain at least a shadow of its original purpose while serving as a much needed sustained DPS Skill)

Jar_Ek

Maybe the new Surge should also heal your pets. That might at least make a pet, non ward spam viable-ish?

Grao

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Maybe the new Surge should also heal your pets. That might at least make a pet, non ward spam viable-ish?

That would be ok, but I think it would make for more interesting game play if Ward healed the pets and the shield for them was considerably stronger. You see your pet standing on AoE, shield it, it will heal that damage they took and protect them for the duration of the AoE, pet is low on health, shield it, large raid damage about to happen, shield them... Would actually making protecting the pets part of your game play.

But for that to be useful to be useful they also have to make pets better, a little more survivable, reliantly affected by Storm Calling Passives and by Champion Points... Otherwise it just won't work.

FearlessOne_2014

To the "OP" I feel your pain, however we must either adapt to these unfair changes for our fun, or simply find some other game to play. Me personally I rolled a now V2 Stamblade in about week which is pretty slow, and is now leveling up my StamDK to Vet. I mean if this is not what you want to hear, then all I can say is that ESO is not the game for you. Sorcs will probable be phased out for a good 6 months or so to give stamblade and stamDK some time in the sun. Or Magicka Sorcs can just end up in the case of Magicka DK and take years to make it's return.

There is so much to play in this game and plus as another fan of the magic archetype in MMOs and RPGs. I'll let you in on a little secret Mageplars are the true Sorcerer class in ESO so try that before completely throwing in the towel.

Anhedonie

Well, they were full magicka in Daggerfall, but other TES versions of Sorcerer are different from this. Just look at tag skills:

Endurance
Intelligence

Enchant
Conjuration
Mysticism
Destruction
Alteration

Illusion
Medium Armor
Heavy Armor
Marksman
Short Blade

Kildayen

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

BTW, in lore, All sorcerer skills still used magicka, they were still a magicka focused class.

from the wiki, on sorcerers in morrowind

"Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."

from the wiki on sorcerers in oblivion

"Boasting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb magicka from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more magicka than any other mage class."

IN LORE, it they were still a magicka focused class, they just wore heavy armor and had ALOT of magicka. There is no instance in lore that suggests they drew upon their stamina for spellcasting.

Look, you guys want to make stamina sorcerers relevant, fine, i wont stop you from asking that, but magicka sorcerers should not have to donate anything to a spec that defies the logic of the class.

Thank you for this. It was never stamina for me and unfortunately I did not have the gameplay experience of previous Elder Scrolls games to know that they were backwards in this game. A Sorc will always be magic based to me. A stam sorc makes zero sense to me when comparing to all the other games I have played, but that has no power here I guess. I either learn to adapt and become a stam-sorc fanboy, or I go play Sorc in a different game.

Grao

Kildayen wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

BTW, in lore, All sorcerer skills still used magicka, they were still a magicka focused class.

from the wiki, on sorcerers in morrowind

"Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos."

from the wiki on sorcerers in oblivion

"Boasting the most well-equipped fighters, Sorcerers rely on the spells of the mystic arts. Unique to these mages is the bodily stamina to be armed with the thickest armor. Sorcerers also possess the unique ability to absorb magicka from spells targeted at them, serving in essence as magical "batteries", and possess more magicka than any other mage class."

IN LORE, it they were still a magicka focused class, they just wore heavy armor and had ALOT of magicka. There is no instance in lore that suggests they drew upon their stamina for spellcasting.

Look, you guys want to make stamina sorcerers relevant, fine, i wont stop you from asking that, but magicka sorcerers should not have to donate anything to a spec that defies the logic of the class.

Thank you for this. It was never stamina for me and unfortunately I did not have the gameplay experience of previous Elder Scrolls games to know that they were backwards in this game. A Sorc will always be magic based to me. A stam sorc makes zero sense to me when comparing to all the other games I have played, but that has no power here I guess. I either learn to adapt and become a stam-sorc fanboy, or I go play Sorc in a different game.

The TESO version of Sorcerer gets confused for a stamina class because in most games they were sword wielder and heavy armored, not at all your traditional robed mage with a staff or a wand. It is maintained though, that their damage is brought forth by the enchanting of their items, not blades, but also armor, etc, not to mention by their summoner abilities.

This is one of the reason I actually liked Bound Armor as it did give the impression of a sorcerer clad in heavy armor, that was truly matching the Lore of the game. I also started playing a sorcerer hoping to use a two handed sword as my main weapon and play a melee range magicka wielder. Unfortunately the fact Sorcerers lack their own spammable ability + how the game calculated damage back then made such rather impossible.

ostrapz

@grao the fact that physical damage is there doesnt lessen the magicka, and even after this coming patch id b suprised if stam sorc is deemed better than a magicka sorc. Also my belief is that zos intended to compensate for the "shield nerf" with crit surge changes to make it so sorcs actually have to heal instead of just shielding all the time, though it seems sorcs didnt feel surge was buffed as much as nerfed. Yes sorcs only have 3 real skills, but each of these skills hit, hard. If sorcs got another dps move then theyd have to re-adjust these moves strength. Hitting 1-2 mines is the only way to duel a sorc who camps mines when your on a melee character. Sorcs will be fine

BlackMadara

You can't make dark exchange into a spammable instant skill because of the blood magic passive, that heals 8% HP when hitting someone with a dark magic skill. That passive would have to be changed or tweaked, and you definitely can't make a life leach skill. Sounds like people want a copy of strife. I do think pets need to be useful. Make em fast and durable, reliably controllable, and not take up multiple slots on bars. Perhaps make their basic attacks do no damage when you're not on the bar the skill is on, if that's a concern for the toggle aspect. Also, make them scale of more than max magicka. ZOS isn't going to get rid of pets so make them useable in fast paced combat. If you have that, then you don't need a spammable DPS skill in class, use destro for spam chip damage, while pets beat on stuff for more DPS/pressure, time curse/frag/fury burst with all the pressure. For pve, boom you have extra "DOT" for DPs. I like the shields healing the pets idea, or make shields larger or last longer on pets. The only problem I can see these buffed pets is cc will counter them, taking them out the fight.

My 2 cents anyway. I could be way off. Lemme know

Grao

ostrapz wrote: »

@grao the fact that physical damage is there doesnt lessen the magicka, and even after this coming patch id b suprised if stam sorc is deemed better than a magicka sorc. Also my belief is that zos intended to compensate for the "shield nerf" with crit surge changes to make it so sorcs actually have to heal instead of just shielding all the time, though it seems sorcs didnt feel surge was buffed as much as nerfed. Yes sorcs only have 3 real skills, but each of these skills hit, hard. If sorcs got another dps move then theyd have to re-adjust these moves strength. Hitting 1-2 mines is the only way to duel a sorc who camps mines when your on a melee character. Sorcs will be fine

As I said, I have nothing against a sorcerer wanting to focus more on their weapon mastery than on spell casting and I think the class has enough useless skills to be changed into something good just for that. I was just pointing out that lorewise, even blade wielder, heavy armored sorcerers were in fact mainly spell casters, their damage came mostly from their spells, even if some of those spells were layered on their weaopn to increase the damage done by said weapon ^^

And... Don't you think it is a little ridiculous sorcerers only have three skills as you pointed out? Yeah, they are a good burst combo, but one be reflected, one make you glow strongly purple before blowing, so you can easily block it... I mean, even in PvP those skill aren't the best and in PvE, they are just not good enough, thus why sorcerer DPS is far bellow that of other classes. I don't want another burst DPS skill, I want a version of force pulse in the sorcerer's tree so we can make better use of some of our passives, make better use of overload and maybe have a slight buff to our DPS as all the other class spammables actually are a little more powerful than Force Pulse, damage wise.

brandonv516

As a magicka nb, I have a tough time against sorcs with their stacking perma shields. I've tried many strategies and the only one that works for me is when I catch them off guard.

That being said, I favor any nerfs to the class in the shield department. I'd rather be able to crit their shields or not allow them to stack but I'll take the duration hit for now.

dsalter

XaXa wrote: »

Its more ZoS fault for not really following lore. There are casters that are the stereotypical "Sorc" from other MMOs.

In TES lore though a Sorcerer typically wears heavier armor and wields weapons. they use their magical abilities more to buff themselves and their weapons.

Its a common mistake so I wouldn't worry about it.

I do agree that ZoS should make a post saying what their vision of the class is though now that we are going through all these changes.

i thought they were mainly mages with medium armor (morrowind) with long swords? i always made my own version of a sorc where it was ALMOST the exact same but cut out the medium armor bit, cause i prefered light or robes

Grao

dsalter wrote: »

XaXa wrote: »

Its more ZoS fault for not really following lore. There are casters that are the stereotypical "Sorc" from other MMOs.

In TES lore though a Sorcerer typically wears heavier armor and wields weapons. they use their magical abilities more to buff themselves and their weapons.

Its a common mistake so I wouldn't worry about it.

I do agree that ZoS should make a post saying what their vision of the class is though now that we are going through all these changes.

i thought they were mainly mages with medium armor (morrowind) with long swords? i always made my own version of a sorc where it was ALMOST the exact same but cut out the medium armor bit, cause i prefered light or robes

In most TES lore sorcerers are heavy armored and blade wielders. That does not mean most of their damage done is physical though as also according to lore, sorcerers have the largest Magicka pool in the game. That suggests most of their damage is likely magical, even if the choose to channel their magic to increase the damage done by their weapons and by summoning pets.

ostrapz

@brandonv516 @Grao i dont really think the duartion should have changed i woulda have preferred critting. That being said the only dps skill from nb i have from my nb class is suprise attack, fear an cloak my only class skills. Im not opposed to sorcs havin 1 more dps but at the same time the fact that a spammable dps is hard to add with balance. Right now a sorc will curse >mage fury>entropy>ha or some form of this combo, a frag usually will proc in that series, they will heavy and thats your chance to rush in tank a mine and dps with cc. If sorcs had a spammable lets say 3k attk they would become very op quickly. The need for heavy attacks would be gone with some sorcs having 50k magicka theyd spam that dps so frequently you couldnt dodge all the frags+spammable being thrown. Add that with mages fury and disintegration passive and people could only take that 11k frag+spam combo once before they risk execute range. They just need to allow to to keep pets when changing bars and they would be alot better