Ideas for helping Magicka DKs in PVP

flguy147ub17_ESO

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

americansteel

sadly i see no buff coming to useless dragons blood and whip.

i would be happy for a whip buff.

sad how we have a magic DPS ability yet it doesnt offer DPS, is my whip there for bondage or combat?

sad how templars and DKs get trashed on by zos.

Lynx7386

Dragon blood needs some massive improvements for all DK's, not just magicka. Being based on health is bad enough for everyone that isnt a pure tank (and even for pure tanks it doesnt really do much for a self heal) - but the fact that battle spirit cuts it in half, you're looking at a 16% missing health heal. For a tank with 50k health, when you use DB at half health this thing is only going to heal for 4,000 - that's less than 10% of your total health bar, absolutely pathetic.

dragonblood needs to be changed - either make it a reverse-execute (a flat heal scaling with max magicka or stamina - based on morph - that heals more based on how much health you're missing), or into something like vigor with a bonus when low on health. Also, while they're at it, make green dragonblood green please.

Lexxypwns

Its simple, give us class based major or minor heroism, remove battle spirit debuff from Dragon's Blood, buff whip damage 15%. We just need 2/3 of those things, preferably the first 2.

Sugaroverdose

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

Panth141

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

True, this would be totally imbalanced given that there is no class in the game that can do this... oh, wait...

When battle spirit is applied, it would take 6 casts to get yourself from 0->100%. In PvP a magicka templar can do it in two with ease. A DK with major mending + rally+vigor can do it in one rotation. In PvE it's one decent BoL. I'm not sure what about a 33% (16.5% PvP) health heal is remotely 'OP' by comparison.

Ryuho

americansteel wrote: »

sadly i see no buff coming to useless dragons blood and whip.

i would be happy for a whip buff.

sad how we have a magic DPS ability yet it doesnt offer DPS, is my whip there for bondage or combat?

sad how templars and DKs get trashed on by zos.

So true..

Sugaroverdose

Panth141 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

True, this would be totally imbalanced given that there is no class in the game that can do this... oh, wait...

When battle spirit is applied, it would take 6 casts to get yourself from 0->100%. In PvP a magicka templar can do it in two with ease. A DK with major mending + rally+vigor can do it in one rotation. In PvE it's one decent BoL. I'm not sure what about a 33% (16.5% PvP) health heal is remotely 'OP' by comparison.

People still mess up templars whose basic role is healer and dk's whose basic role is tank.

Anyway, add obsidian shield (which boosts tooltip 33% to 43%) and coagulating blood buff (which adds 3% to tolltip) what do we have? 46%/2=23% untouched by CP or 4600 health nonkrit on 20k health target, with descent CP (20 in blessed=10%, 20 in quick recovery=6%) in result stacked effects will give ~52% with 20k health it is 5200, or 6500 when you have 25k health which is comparable to 11k/13k BoL tooltip, it will outplay BoL and HoT, also it's guarantees that you will be touched by this heal and no-one will steal it, stamDK's are already have huge boost, this one will make them completely unkillable.

What reason for any healer than? Why nightblades and sorcs shouldn't have such healing possibilities?

Panth141

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

True, this would be totally imbalanced given that there is no class in the game that can do this... oh, wait...

When battle spirit is applied, it would take 6 casts to get yourself from 0->100%. In PvP a magicka templar can do it in two with ease. A DK with major mending + rally+vigor can do it in one rotation. In PvE it's one decent BoL. I'm not sure what about a 33% (16.5% PvP) health heal is remotely 'OP' by comparison.

People still mess up templars whose basic role is healer and dk's whose basic role is tank.

Anyway, add obsidian shield (which boosts tooltip 33% to 43%) and coagulating blood buff (which adds 3% to tolltip) what do we have? 46%/2=23% untouched by CP or 4600 health nonkrit on 20k health target, with descent CP (20 in blessed=10%, 20 in quick recovery=6%) in result stacked effects will give ~52% with 20k health it is 5200, or 6500 when you have 25k health which is comparable to 11k/13k BoL tooltip, it will outplay BoL and HoT, also it's guarantees that you will be touched by this heal and no-one will steal it, stamDK's are already have huge boost, this one will make them completely unkillable.

What reason for any healer than? Why nightblades and sorcs shouldn't have such healing possibilities?

If this were to be implemented, I would expect it to be a fixed value of 33% (16.5% PvP), as it is a pure value taken from your max health - and I wouldn't expect it to be able to crit - they would be the balance criteria I would expect to be attached to the change.

This way it's useful in PvE as a good heal fixed at 33% health - but it would also be a magicka drain for stamDKs - possibly an increase in cost of it may be warranted to make its use a compromise? Though DKs in PvE already use their magicka for class based skills.

Does it seem a bit more balanced to you with those limitations attached?

I main a NB, and agree that this does outdo NB heals (though NB does have more 'escape' viability); and with the sorc surge nerf it certainly outdoes them as well. But I'm not sure that the fact that other classes may need a rework is a reason not to look at changing an ability that has faded to uselessness.

Sugaroverdose

Can you please add some numbers without forgetting that DK have other things like resource trade and bigredbutton called ultimate which returns a lot of all resources?

Don't know how DK's was powerful on release, but at 1.6 they never dies in 1v3 and this change boosts their survivability even in comparison with 1.6 state

Armitas

Ferocious Leap needs to do magicka damage and both morphs need to break roots as that ultimate is our primary source of sustain through battle roar.

Chains need to work all of the time. I also really wish there were a PvP and PvE friendly version of chains. (Variable Push or Pull) I really miss pull chains when I tank, but I need push chains when I PvP. I wish empowered chains would do both, pull first push if fail like before.

We need some internal defense that isn't armor value which can be easily penetrated. For example something like our evasion from our cinderstorm.

Corrosive armor should penetrate armor rather than just physical mitigation.

EsoRecon

magdks are amazing in duels. so i am ok with them being buffed for open world as long as it doesnt buff them in duels.

Firerock2

Your dragon's blood idea would open up the ability to stamina dk's so no. I say just make it scale off of magicka and make it basically a copy of Honor the Dead. Stamina DK's do NOT need a burst heal that uses magicka and heals for a lot.

DDuke

americansteel wrote: »

sadly i see no buff coming to useless dragons blood and whip.

i would be happy for a whip buff.

sad how we have a magic DPS ability yet it doesnt offer DPS, is my whip there for bondage or combat?

sad how templars and DKs get trashed on by zos.

Sad how people don't do research before complaining about classes.

Stam DK is currently the strongest class in both PvP & PvE - Magicka Templar following close behind. Stamina Templar came 2nd in the latest EU dueling tournament.


Magicka DK is extremely strong as well with a proper build (both in PvE/PvP) - though there are improvements they could make to allow more build diversity in magicka DKs.

---

For example, magicka DKs get Molten Armaments which encourages you to use inferno staff heavy attacks. Now the problem is, you can't use these heavy attacks at all because anyone with a gap closer will be in your face spamming Dizzying Swings/other CCs.

So what magicka DKs need in my opinion is a proper area denial similar to sorc mines that would keep melee away, allowing you to actually deal that ranged damage.


Other aspects of magicka DK are just fine & certainly don't need buffing.

Panth141

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Can you please add some numbers without forgetting that DK have other things like resource trade and bigredbutton called ultimate which returns a lot of all resources?

Don't know how DK's was powerful on release, but at 1.6 they never dies in 1v3 and this change boosts their survivability even in comparison with 1.6 state

Sure - can't get on Live or PTS at the moment to test current and exact values, but:

Above suggestion: Dragonblood, heals for 33% of max health no matter what buffs are applied, excluding battle spirit, which reduces the heal to 16.5% max health. Cost IIRC is around 3600 magicka?

For PvE, I would expect that this could be used as an 'oh ****' button by stamDKs, as it drains their magicka that they currently use to complement their offensive/tank capabilities. As the thread is focused on mDK, this provides them with an out-of-combat heal for PvP that isn't so large that it becomes unbalanced - for a 20k health mDK, the 16.5% heal is 3,300 - vigor can tick for up to a couple thousand on a properly spec'd build, and BoL is superior to this - though there is the possibility of 'losing' your heal to an ally. This in itself doesn't seem 'unbalanced'.

However there is an 'edge-case' that needs to be considered - the tanky-as-hell DK who stacks up 35k health. For them this would be a 5,775 heal - this is more comparable to the BoL heal value. However the DK must make sacrifices to other max stats to increase their health this much - meaning less magicka for utility/attacks/DB, and less stamina for blocking. I'm not certain that I consider this to be balanced, though - it would need testing - perhaps the max heal value should be capped? I'm not sure.

This brings out the two main balance issues I could see:

- Ridiculously large heals on DKs stacking health
- Spamming of DB

Now, the simplest (though perhaps messiest) solution is to cap the heal and increase the cost - though the 'capping' value would prove difficult to balance between PvE & PvE.

Another idea would be to drop the % to perhaps 28-30% of your missing health, and increase the cost to around 4,200 magicka - if we consider the different builds for this:

Standard mDK DPS, ~ 20-25k health:
- PvE heal is 6k-7.5k heal
- PvP heal is 3k-3.75k
- Cost is a good chunk of magicka - to get from 0->100% health in PvP would require 7 DBs - just short of 30k magicka. This is clearly inferior to BoL, but has the added utility of giving minor mending (for embers/draw essence heal) or increased stamina regen

Tanky-health-stacking mDK ~30-35k health
- PvE heal is 9k-10.5k heal
- PvP heal is 4.5k-5.25k heal
- Again, this is inferior to BoL and the cost would make 'spamming' somewhat prohibitive, given the lower magicka pool due to dumping into maxing out health

Stamina DK ~ however much health
- Can probably only do it 3/4 times = ~50% health heal before their magicka is empty = no more igneous shield for major mending, no more talons, no more class CC (fossilze)

Now, there is one more option... the dreaded cost increase within 6 seconds. If this method were used then the heal could stay as it is - the cost increase would prevent any spamming. But this form of 'balance' is pretty much universally disliked.

On the other hand, perhaps the entire skill needs a rework. Perhaps a HoT? Or a small % heal for damage taken? I'm not entirely satisfied that any of the stuff described above is 'balanced' as the edge-cases make DB exploitable - a hark back to the old days of the invincible DK, as you mentioned. But it is clear and largely agreed that something needs to be done about DB - at present a standard, 20k health mDK who has 1 HP left can use DB to get a massive (!) 3,300 maximum heal. When at 50% health they will get a heal of 1,650. It sucks and needs reworking.

I genuinely would be interested to hear thoughts and ideas on creating a useful but balanced DB.

Ishammael

DDuke wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

sadly i see no buff coming to useless dragons blood and whip.

i would be happy for a whip buff.

sad how we have a magic DPS ability yet it doesnt offer DPS, is my whip there for bondage or combat?

sad how templars and DKs get trashed on by zos.

Sad how people don't do research before complaining about classes.

Stam DK is currently the strongest class in both PvP & PvE - Magicka Templar following close behind. Stamina Templar came 2nd in the latest EU dueling tournament.


Magicka DK is extremely strong as well with a proper build (both in PvE/PvP) - though there are improvements they could make to allow more build diversity in magicka DKs.

---

For example, magicka DKs get Molten Armaments which encourages you to use inferno staff heavy attacks. Now the problem is, you can't use these heavy attacks at all because anyone with a gap closer will be in your face spamming Dizzying Swings/other CCs.

So what magicka DKs need in my opinion is a proper area denial similar to sorc mines that would keep melee away, allowing you to actually deal that ranged damage.


Other aspects of magicka DK are just fine & certainly don't need buffing.

DK AoE denial used to be cinder storm. So yeah, I'll agree with adding Evasion back to cinder storm.

In addition, fix dragon blood.

Whip doesn't really need a buff in damage. Make it un dodge-able like Radiant.

Add major/minor heroism to something (inferno, maybe).

Remove empower from chains, replace with stun and a DoT.

Stone fist should be reworked. One morph stamina.

Then we are probably solid.

Lord_Hev

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its simple, give us class based major or minor heroism, remove battle spirit debuff from Dragon's Blood, buff whip damage 15%. We just need 2/3 of those things, preferably the first 2.

This right here. This is all DK needs. They don't need these stupid animation changes, OP burning ember heals or any other stupid **** they come up with. These are the 3 core things that nerfed DK in 1.7. Well, 2 things, Whip dmg and Dragonblood heal. Although in current times, class passives that grant ultimate gain would be very welcome in increasing overall DK survivability and sustain.


Dragonblood and Whip is central to magic DK. Even now, I can live with low damage.



I. Just. Want. To. ****ing. HEAL. Myself. As the supposed tanky self-sustaining class that is Dragonknight. What, the actual ****? The logic ZOS justifies for the continual state of Dragonblood is beyond me.

Kilandros

Ishammael wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

sadly i see no buff coming to useless dragons blood and whip.

i would be happy for a whip buff.

sad how we have a magic DPS ability yet it doesnt offer DPS, is my whip there for bondage or combat?

sad how templars and DKs get trashed on by zos.

Sad how people don't do research before complaining about classes.

Stam DK is currently the strongest class in both PvP & PvE - Magicka Templar following close behind. Stamina Templar came 2nd in the latest EU dueling tournament.


Magicka DK is extremely strong as well with a proper build (both in PvE/PvP) - though there are improvements they could make to allow more build diversity in magicka DKs.

---

For example, magicka DKs get Molten Armaments which encourages you to use inferno staff heavy attacks. Now the problem is, you can't use these heavy attacks at all because anyone with a gap closer will be in your face spamming Dizzying Swings/other CCs.

So what magicka DKs need in my opinion is a proper area denial similar to sorc mines that would keep melee away, allowing you to actually deal that ranged damage.


Other aspects of magicka DK are just fine & certainly don't need buffing.

DK AoE denial used to be cinder storm. So yeah, I'll agree with adding Evasion back to cinder storm.

In addition, fix dragon blood.

Whip doesn't really need a buff in damage. Make it un dodge-able like Radiant.

Add major/minor heroism to something (inferno, maybe).

Remove empower from chains, replace with stun and a DoT.

Stone fist should be reworked. One morph stamina.

Then we are probably solid.

THIS

Ryuho

Change Inferno into:

Dragon charge - use ur wings to charge forward 5 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, each rank increase skill radius up to 10m

Flame charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit , deals initial flame dmg for X to all enemies and apply flame dot effect for 5 sec

Molting charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, and applying strong flame dot effect for 15 sec to all enemies

After 1 use u get debuff similar to sorc streak debuff.

All hail DK semi teleport spell!

Not troll post. Something like that would help mDK with escaping.

Lexxypwns

Lord_Hev wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Its simple, give us class based major or minor heroism, remove battle spirit debuff from Dragon's Blood, buff whip damage 15%. We just need 2/3 of those things, preferably the first 2.

This right here. This is all DK needs. They don't need these stupid animation changes, OP burning ember heals or any other stupid **** they come up with. These are the 3 core things that nerfed DK in 1.7. Well, 2 things, Whip dmg and Dragonblood heal. Although in current times, class passives that grant ultimate gain would be very welcome in increasing overall DK survivability and sustain.


Dragonblood and Whip is central to magic DK. Even now, I can live with low damage.



I. Just. Want. To. ****ing. HEAL. Myself. As the supposed tanky self-sustaining class that is Dragonknight. What, the actual ****? The logic ZOS justifies for the continual state of Dragonblood is beyond me.

I'm reduced to running healing ward and blessing of resto because they're both inadequate by themselves in outnumbered situations.

inb4 "healing ward is really stong" The thing is, when running a shield you don't block, which means that the best heal available to DKs requires us to not use our best (ONLY) mitigation tool.

Sugaroverdose

Ryuho wrote: »

Change Inferno into:

Dragon charge - use ur wings to charge forward 5 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, each rank increase skill radius up to 10m

Flame charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit , and applying flame dot effect for 5 sec

Poisonus charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, and applying poison dot effect for 5 sec

After 1 use u get debuff similar to sorc streak debuff.

All hail DK semi teleport spell!

Not troll post. Something like that would help mDK with escaping.

You forget to add invisibility, 15% damage reduction, fear everything around and heal to 100% of health.

It's a troll post to show how ridiculous such ideas.

Ryuho

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Change Inferno into:

Dragon charge - use ur wings to charge forward 5 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, each rank increase skill radius up to 10m

Flame charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit , and applying flame dot effect for 5 sec

Poisonus charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, and applying poison dot effect for 5 sec

After 1 use u get debuff similar to sorc streak debuff.

All hail DK semi teleport spell!

Not troll post. Something like that would help mDK with escaping.

You forget to add invisibility, 15% damage reduction, fear everything around and heal to 100% of health.

It's a troll post to show how ridiculous such ideas.

Wut? Range is smaller than sorc 10meters, and stuns only 1 enemy. Removed stamina morph, would be to OP agreed. But better that than mist form for escape..

imapogostick

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

I think if you have 0 health your dead but w.e like they say l2p

Sugaroverdose

imapogostick wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

I think if you have 0 health your dead but w.e like they say l2p

0 doesn't means null in this point, but extremely low value.

Ryuho wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Change Inferno into:

Dragon charge - use ur wings to charge forward 5 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, each rank increase skill radius up to 10m

Flame charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit , and applying flame dot effect for 5 sec

Poisonus charge - use ur wings to charge forward 10 m stunning 1 enemy u hit, and applying poison dot effect for 5 sec

After 1 use u get debuff similar to sorc streak debuff.

All hail DK semi teleport spell!

Not troll post. Something like that would help mDK with escaping.

You forget to add invisibility, 15% damage reduction, fear everything around and heal to 100% of health.

It's a troll post to show how ridiculous such ideas.

Wut? Range is smaller than sorc 10meters, and stuns only 1 enemy. Removed stamina morph, would be to OP agreed. But better that than mist form for escape..

Templars and DK's have no escape abilities and they shouldn't, want teleport - get sorc, want heal - get templar, want invis - get night blade, want wings, tallons, aoe interrupt, etc - get dragon knight.

BlackMadara

For everyone calling for whip buffs, check out this site http://esolog.uesp.net/viewSkills.php
It calculates tooltips of skills. Buffing whip by as much as 10% would make it too strong, especially paired with engulfing flames. Of course you still have to take into account passives and utility when comparing spammable skills, but still.

As for dragon blood, I have an idea that I have posted a couple times and refined with other's input. I think it should be given a flat value between 10-20% of max HP, that increases by a percentage according to missing HP, like the shield for healing ward.
This way, it isn't hurt as much by battle spirit, keeps its niche as an anti execute, and is still useful for tanks. Removing battle spirit from one ability isn't healthy from a balance perspective IMO.
The reason mDKs need our self heal is because we don't have synergy with healing ward and blessing of protection is relatively weak. Sorcs can shield stack and have mobility to guarantee the big heal on ward (universal mag based shields are coming, I know). Nb can cloak until the heal pops on ward. Templars have a reliable burst heal without resto staff.

I would also like cinder storm to give major evasion with a cast at feet function, and a slight increase in its radius by 1 or 2 meters so we can fight in it.

What do you think? I feel we just need our survivability back (wasn't around during op era of mDK but I have seen vids) are the changes suitable and balanced? Is there anything else we NEED that isn't biased to make mDK op?

I like the minor heroism idea BTW since dynamic ult isn't around. Idk about major

Moglijuana

I would be extremely happy with only 2 things.

1) Cinderstorm being cast at my feet and giving me dodge chance while inside it.
2) Either a reliable gap closer that ALWAYS worked (or) Movement speed added to reflective scales instead of that sh*t ability we have for a gap closer.

Ghost-Shot

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

My templar can cast 1 BoL and be at full health plus heal someone else, tell me more about how Dragons Blood would be OP.

Joy_Division

What I would do with Dragon Blood is base the heal off spellpower and max magicka (like every heal in the game) and then apply a bonus modifier for low health. I believe Healing Ward works like this (just make it instant by removing the shield part of the spell).

I don't so much have an issue with the damage DKs do as I do with their inability to burst stuff down. This wasn't so much an issue in 1.5 when sustain mattered in this game, but now people just heal/shield/dodge/whatever when they get to half health. This makes is frustrating to take down players without an execute. I wouldn't say no to extra whip damage, however I don't see that really doing much except increase the gap further for PVE DK DPS.

I'd much rather have the 1.5 Cinderstorm back.

Sugaroverdose

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

My templar can cast 1 BoL and be at full health plus heal someone else, tell me more about how Dragons Blood would be OP.

What about numbers? How much health, what's other stats, and what heal number are you talking about?

Hutch679

Gap closers are over rated for a magicka Dk. If you start getting hit from range, flap your wings and line of sight them. Force them to come to you. When you use a gap closer enemies can potentially drag you out into the open making you severely vulnerable.

Try using elusive mist instead of a gap closer. (must be a vampire for this skill). Magicka Dk is really in a pretty good spot right now. It's not meant to be a class that bulldozers enemies with a spammable attack. It's meant to out pressure on enemies to force them into going defensive by cc'ing them. Accept that the Dk is a group support role and you will play a lot better and have a lot more fun.

Dragon Blood should get a buff though. It's not reliable to have to cast a spell twice to get a heal. Example = burning embers.

Ghost-Shot

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ok i wont go crazy with a million changes but the 2 complaints i have seen the most is about Whip and Dragonblood. Please leave Constructive Criticism on my simple ideas and changes to help improve our class for PVP. Hopefully Zos will read this and implement our ideas as a Magicka DK commmunity. These are very very simple changes.

--- Dragonblood - I think there is a couple and easy ways of improving this ability, this may not completely satisfy or fix everything but a starting point for improvement and i believe it still could be implemented before DB launches since Zos is still tweaking things.

1. Remove the battle spirit 50% reduced healing on this ability in PVP. The ability will still not be that strong due to it being based off missing health but its definitely an improvement and making this ability a viable heal without having to use a Restoration Staff.

2. Make it scale off 33% of your total health instead of missing health. Which with battle spirit, it still wouldnt be strong still but would be an improvement.


---- Flame Lash - This is the PVP morph normally for most players. I still think the other morph PVE players will take due to the buff to the entire skill line in damage. So i suggest maybe a 10% increase in damage to the Flame Lash morph to start, it still isnt going to hit as hard as some other single target abilities but would be an improvement and i dont think it will have any impact on PVE either.


Note: I am not looking for this class to be OP or like it was at PC launch but just to put it in better shape than it currently is in PVP, i do not believe these changes will impact PVE much at all.


Please leave your thoughts and ideas even if you completely hate these ideas, please explain why they wouldnt work. I am just trying to communicate with the player base and ZOS to help us come up with some great ideas on improving this class in PVP.

3 casts from 0 health to 100% health whatever stats you have? Awesome idea and not OP, not at all /sarcasm

My templar can cast 1 BoL and be at full health plus heal someone else, tell me more about how Dragons Blood would be OP.

What about numbers? How much health, what's other stats, and what heal number are you talking about?

Based on your argument against Dragons Blood I fail to see how any of that is relevant. From your post history I get the impression you only play a templar, so forgive me if I have a hard time taking your insight on DK balance very seriously compared to those of us that have been playing magicka DK's for 2 years.