Calling all people who eschew Maxing and just Play

menedhyn

Some encouraging comments here, and several mirror my own thoughts.

Due to my work and study commitments, plus a smattering of other interests (including a mild case of bibliophilia), I tend to play solo when it is convenient for me to do so. I love RP and this dictates what and how I play, though more often than not I find myself quietly RPing alone or through occasional random encounters with others. I would much rather use what little time I have playing in this way than investing time in creating a viable PvP build that, in truth, doesn't really interest me.

If i'm being brutally honest, I deliberately weaken myself through the choices I make at character creation stage and through my consequential actions in-game. For example, I would rather stick stubbornly to an idea that my character is a relatively experienced archer and can 'stab with a stabby-thing', but knows no other weapon skill. Or, an older, physically weak character living a simple life who knows how to make potions, has an understanding of runes and glyphs and a deep interest in 'earth magicks'. I've no idea how far I will be able to take these characters, but i'm happy to try and see what happens. Very occasionally I join others to tackle dungeons, and so far everyone has been very relaxed about the pace, our respective roles and our mutual abilities. Perhaps I have been lucky so far and found like-minded, easy-going people? Who knows.

I think I take the game seriously, though I dislike any terms that attempt to describe what sort of player you are. I eschew standard builds in favour of something that works for me rather than what may or may not work for others. Most of all, I have great fun and thoroughly enjoy playing this way.

GivvumBoane

paganach wrote: »

Some encouraging comments here, and several mirror my own thoughts.

Due to my work and study commitments, plus a smattering of other interests (including a mild case of bibliophilia), I tend to play solo when it is convenient for me to do so. I love RP and this dictates what and how I play, though more often than not I find myself quietly RPing alone or through occasional random encounters with others. I would much rather use what little time I have playing in this way than investing time in creating a viable PvP build that, in truth, doesn't really interest me.

If i'm being brutally honest, I deliberately weaken myself through the choices I make at character creation stage and through my consequential actions in-game. For example, I would rather stick stubbornly to an idea that my character is a relatively experienced archer and can 'stab with a stabby-thing', but knows no other weapon skill. Or, an older, physically weak character living a simple life who knows how to make potions, has an understanding of runes and glyphs and a deep interest in 'earth magicks'. I've no idea how far I will be able to take these characters, but i'm happy to try and see what happens. Very occasionally I join others to tackle dungeons, and so far everyone has been very relaxed about the pace, our respective roles and our mutual abilities. Perhaps I have been lucky so far and found like-minded, easy-going people? Who knows.

I think I take the game seriously, though I dislike any terms that attempt to describe what sort of player you are. I eschew standard builds in favour of something that works for me rather than what may or may not work for others. Most of all, I have great fun and thoroughly enjoy playing this way.

You play the game for you. Nobody else. So, definitely play the way you want. I'm sure you'll enjoy it more than trying to fill a role. Feels too much like a job without the pay.

ParaNostram

I'm working on an ice knight build for dark brotherhood. I have an alteration of this style, I like to take unorthodox class concepts based on who my characters are as characters and make them a viable reality mechanically.

Docmandu

I hear you... I PvP 95% of the time, but don't have all-gold gear, don't swallow a pot every 45 seconds, haven't bored myself to death doing Undaunted grinding for the passives, don't have a Maelstrom weapon, .. and yet.. I still have fun and do fairly ok.

MattT1988

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

I don't really see the appeal of min/max - I'm not a dungeon runner, and very much a completionist. I have no desire to go chasing "end game" gear.

I did slightly concede to the min/max paradigm when creating my current main - A Dunmer Magicka Templar DPS mage. With their racial bonuses to fire, I figured it would give a little extra. Also, Dunmer is one of my favourite races. I also got someone to craft her a proper set of armor - Seducers/Torugs pact. However, I fast realised that for someone exploring and questing, that robes are at best impractical. So, with the release of TG, the set she got was styled in the mercenary jerkin fashion, which seems a lot more practical to me. I may go with Ancient Elf for the next set, as it has a warmer look to it, and looks more guild like, but very practical at the same time.

However, I gave a backstory, and gave a fitting in-lore name. I made her part of House Virian, but fighting for DC initially, as she grew up in the Alik'r Desert. However, she considers herself more of a Mercenary for hire, and will fight for who-ever has the best cause or pays the right money. She *really* dislikes those high-elves though, and whilst she is currently running a few tasks for Queen Ayrenn, she feels she is constantly having to make sure she is ok, much like a big sister. She feels Ayrenn just...I don't know...is a little weak?

She was always impressed with the Redguard, and has always felt that High King Emeric had the right idea all along. Does not like King Jorunn, though she knows the Ebonheart will soon require her help. She feels he is a little too aggressive.

She is looking forward to finally meeting up with some of her family, and has heard much of Naryu.

The Skald King's voice bugged me. While I do like the voice actor, his voice didn't seem fitting for the character. His dialog seemed to overemphasize the wrong parts. He seemed to be struggling.

Awe,I love Peter Stormare's voice as the king. He's just a bit responsibility laden,Jorunn is,so that struggling voice fits,..for me anyway.

I love the guy. My favorite character in Armageddon. He was good in Bad Boys 2. Just didn't do it for me as Jorunn though. I liked Emeric and Ayrenn

"American spaceship! Russian Space Station! ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!"

Best character in that movie for sure.

GivvumBoane

Docmandu wrote: »

I hear you... I PvP 95% of the time, but don't have all-gold gear, don't swallow a pot every 45 seconds, haven't bored myself to death doing Undaunted grinding for the passives, don't have a Maelstrom weapon, .. and yet.. I still have fun and do fairly ok.

MattT1988 wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

I don't really see the appeal of min/max - I'm not a dungeon runner, and very much a completionist. I have no desire to go chasing "end game" gear.

I did slightly concede to the min/max paradigm when creating my current main - A Dunmer Magicka Templar DPS mage. With their racial bonuses to fire, I figured it would give a little extra. Also, Dunmer is one of my favourite races. I also got someone to craft her a proper set of armor - Seducers/Torugs pact. However, I fast realised that for someone exploring and questing, that robes are at best impractical. So, with the release of TG, the set she got was styled in the mercenary jerkin fashion, which seems a lot more practical to me. I may go with Ancient Elf for the next set, as it has a warmer look to it, and looks more guild like, but very practical at the same time.

However, I gave a backstory, and gave a fitting in-lore name. I made her part of House Virian, but fighting for DC initially, as she grew up in the Alik'r Desert. However, she considers herself more of a Mercenary for hire, and will fight for who-ever has the best cause or pays the right money. She *really* dislikes those high-elves though, and whilst she is currently running a few tasks for Queen Ayrenn, she feels she is constantly having to make sure she is ok, much like a big sister. She feels Ayrenn just...I don't know...is a little weak?

She was always impressed with the Redguard, and has always felt that High King Emeric had the right idea all along. Does not like King Jorunn, though she knows the Ebonheart will soon require her help. She feels he is a little too aggressive.

She is looking forward to finally meeting up with some of her family, and has heard much of Naryu.

The Skald King's voice bugged me. While I do like the voice actor, his voice didn't seem fitting for the character. His dialog seemed to overemphasize the wrong parts. He seemed to be struggling.

Awe,I love Peter Stormare's voice as the king. He's just a bit responsibility laden,Jorunn is,so that struggling voice fits,..for me anyway.

I love the guy. My favorite character in Armageddon. He was good in Bad Boys 2. Just didn't do it for me as Jorunn though. I liked Emeric and Ayrenn

"American spaceship! Russian Space Station! ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!"

Best character in that movie for sure.

Definitely. "I gotta go. Some punk thinks he can die in my club." Bad Boys 2

SantieClaws

Khajiit does not play. Poor Santie has no time for play. It is a hard life as a humble cleaner of the pockets, wardrobes, barrels and mugs of the ale.

Also Khajiit really does not understand why you think she would be interested in waxing? The natural beauty of the khajiit is so much more pleasing to the eye than the hairless ones!

Yours with fine hairy paws
Santie Claws

kevlarto_ESO

Fun thing about this game is being able to wear all types of armor and use what ever weapon you want to, not all combinations are effective but they can be fun. I am not a heavy min/maxer I don't care what the meta says or what one of the streamers say is the "best" build, I do good for me and have fun doing it. I try new things make different choices, and have had some rewarding game play in the process.

Vindemiatrix

Myself and a number of my guildmembers regularly camp outside DC's new character spawn house in Glenumbra. We clap and cheer and set out birthday cake for the new toons as they exit the house. We have also frequented the skyshards in the starter zone and done the same. It gets absolutely nothing accomplished, but I hope it makes players feel more welcome as they enter Tamriel and it is great fun.

greylox

Yup, none of my builds are fotm. I just play as I want, care about my.characters and just enjoy the game instead of approaching it like a maths lesson where I have to play one way with the same gear as the rest of the best players, never missing a rotation...yawn.

I'm really enjoying my hybrid stam/mag bosmer pet/bow sorc atm more than anything.

I think some people have stopped knowing how to enjoy a game.

brtomkin

I have played as I wanted since the game was released on the PS4. So, almost a year and 4 vet characters later (3 are vet16), I am still evolving and growing each characters' identity, build, and playstyle. I have gone through a natural trend towards min/maxing, but I will most likely never have a truly maxed out character.

For example, right now I only use two pieces of gold equipment, a Blood Spawn helmet (which is too good to not always have equipped on my stam sorc) and a Vet16 Encasement of Anguish. The Encasement of Anguish is simply part of the identity of my stamplar, which also runs full purple Hundings and Briarheart sets. I stubbornly kept the blue vet13 version that dropped for me during my General Executioner achievement grind, until I happily spent 100,000 gold on the vet16 version from a guild trader. I upgraded it to gold because I knew that I would never equip a different chest armor on that character - Daedric Lord Slayer title + Encasement of Anguish is just too awesome. I could have bought another Blood Spawn helmet from the Cyrodiil vendor for my stamplar, but I chose to continue to use the vanity piece instead.

Heck, the only grind I have ever done in this game is for the General Executioner achievement - and I did that for two characters. The first because I wanted the cool title and the second because I checked my achievements and saw that I only needed 4 or 5 more generals to get the title on that character too. Again, this achievement takes a lot of game time, but does not contribute to min/maxing at all. I have never done a gear grind or material farming or xp grind - just a natural progression and accumulation of stuff just by playing and enjoying the game.

While not necessarily min/max related, here is another example of my playstyle. I was in position to win a 1v1 encounter behind the mine at Arrius keep the other day, but my opponent fell into a hole in the rocks and was having trouble jumping out. Rather than finish him off by sniping from above, I sheathed my weapon, jumped down into the hole and started dancing. I was a bit disappointed that he proceeded to fear me and unload his burst rotation on me.... So, in other words, I gave up 1700 easy AP from an opponent to try to have a fun moment with a fellow player - it didn't work out that time, but I have enjoyed fun moments like that in the past.

Nestor

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

There have to be other players out there who do not try to get the best gear, best setup, max stats, and simply attempt to play, have fun, and find their own entertainment.

I don't Min/Max by any stretch of the imagination. I have no interest in chasing Trials times to get on a Leaderboard, nor do I want to do a Trial that takes 2 to 3 hours of play to complete, all the time running optimal rotations. I don't do PvP, but I also don't harbor the illusion that my gear is what will be getting me killed, it will be my rotations and tactics there.

I do try to build efficient characters though. That means they are effective at their role (DPS/Tank/Heal) and can manage their resources so I am not having to stand around regenning all the time in between fights.

I have only been limited by a couple Vet Dungeons in not being able to complete them. No problem there, it's two dungeons out of the entire game, if I never get those Achievements, I will still be happy.

I have 8 characters, 5 of which are active, all different and all are played differently. One of them is challenged by most of the content, 3 of them can handle most anything I care to try, and one can faceroll through anything, but she is going to be retired come DB and will be my sole Master Crafter. All other Alts are getting their Crafting points pulled on respec.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Volkodav wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Samwell Slayer wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

First TBS is probably better than hundings in a proper group setting so nice job min/maxing. Haha.

I think the vast majority of people play like that. I did for the better part of a year. I was a dagger and bow NB at launch and it was a long time before any min/maxer would even consider it to be viable.

That being said, at some point a little min/maxing goes a long way. The vast majority of this game can be completed with almost no thought to a build. Hovever, if you want to be competitive at end game, "play the way you want" sort of flies out the window.

Just made a post about TBS vs Juli for group play.

KK, done advertising for myself. Bow was not viable for pve for a year, and they changed it so that it is. The fact that you were using bow for a year before that does not mean you had some great insight, it just means you used bow back when it sucked. No offense.

Never said I had any great insight. I was pointing out that for a long time I ran a sub-optimal build because I wanted to play dagger/bow regardless of performance. In other words, not min/maxing. That was the point of this thread.

Also, bow is still terrible single target DPS in PVE. There was a period for a few months when it was really good, but it was short lived. Bow has not been competitive as a main bar weapon in quite some time. Is is viable, sure, but people are clearing vWGT with nothing but light attacks. Almost anything is viable. However, it's certainly not competitive.

Again, kind of my point. Play the way you want works for most things in this game unless you are talking competitive end-game. Some people like to compete and some don't. Neither group is in the wrong.

I dont understand why a bow isnt a good main bar weapon to have for PvE. This is all I use on all my alts. I have no problems with it giving me the damage I need when I need it.I have dual wield on my second bar and switch when caught in close up combat.
I can see that it might be a problem in PvP though.

I am not saying you cant make it work, but when you compare it to other ranged options like a Magic NB or a Magic Sorc with a destro staff, the numbers you pull wont be in the same ball park. Again we are discussing the distinction between what is viable and what is competitive.

As a general rule, Melee Damage is going to be better than ranged damage, although the gap is not nearly as far apart as it used to be. It makes sense that way. Playing Melee is generally tougher. You are exposed to more mechanics and it requires good mobility, etc. Range has always been a "safer" way to play, and that generally comes with a DPS loss.

Bow is actually a better weapon for PVP as a main bar than PVE, especially if going for a ganker build. What happened a while back was that Snipe (and the morphs) were the staple of a single target bow build for PVE. People were running combos of Hawks Eye and Morag Tong, and they were pulling very competitive numbers in trials and that sort of thing by weaving snip and a few DoTs/Buffs. The problem was, that this translated into people getting one-shot in PVP left and right, so the bow got a pretty big nerf. The bow is probably the biggest victim of the balance issues that stem from trying to deal with both PVE and PVP.

Please understand that I am not telling anyone that you cant play with a bow effectively to clear just about anything in the game. However, if you are trying to pull competitive numbers in a trial setting (i.e. do more DPS than the guys standing next to you), bow is near the bottom of the list as a main bar weapon. As a back bar weapon, it is great. It has some great DoTs that can tick really hard (especially with a maelstrom bow), but the vast majority of DPS from competitive stamina players is coming from Dual Wield, not the bow.

I would love to see the bow as a competitive weapon again for trials and such, but it would probably require a rework of snipe to keep the PVE/PVP balance.

GivvumBoane

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Samwell Slayer wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

First TBS is probably better than hundings in a proper group setting so nice job min/maxing. Haha.

I think the vast majority of people play like that. I did for the better part of a year. I was a dagger and bow NB at launch and it was a long time before any min/maxer would even consider it to be viable.

That being said, at some point a little min/maxing goes a long way. The vast majority of this game can be completed with almost no thought to a build. Hovever, if you want to be competitive at end game, "play the way you want" sort of flies out the window.

Just made a post about TBS vs Juli for group play.

KK, done advertising for myself. Bow was not viable for pve for a year, and they changed it so that it is. The fact that you were using bow for a year before that does not mean you had some great insight, it just means you used bow back when it sucked. No offense.

Never said I had any great insight. I was pointing out that for a long time I ran a sub-optimal build because I wanted to play dagger/bow regardless of performance. In other words, not min/maxing. That was the point of this thread.

Also, bow is still terrible single target DPS in PVE. There was a period for a few months when it was really good, but it was short lived. Bow has not been competitive as a main bar weapon in quite some time. Is is viable, sure, but people are clearing vWGT with nothing but light attacks. Almost anything is viable. However, it's certainly not competitive.

Again, kind of my point. Play the way you want works for most things in this game unless you are talking competitive end-game. Some people like to compete and some don't. Neither group is in the wrong.

I dont understand why a bow isnt a good main bar weapon to have for PvE. This is all I use on all my alts. I have no problems with it giving me the damage I need when I need it.I have dual wield on my second bar and switch when caught in close up combat.
I can see that it might be a problem in PvP though.

I am not saying you cant make it work, but when you compare it to other ranged options like a Magic NB or a Magic Sorc with a destro staff, the numbers you pull wont be in the same ball park. Again we are discussing the distinction between what is viable and what is competitive.

As a general rule, Melee Damage is going to be better than ranged damage, although the gap is not nearly as far apart as it used to be. It makes sense that way. Playing Melee is generally tougher. You are exposed to more mechanics and it requires good mobility, etc. Range has always been a "safer" way to play, and that generally comes with a DPS loss.

Bow is actually a better weapon for PVP as a main bar than PVE, especially if going for a ganker build. What happened a while back was that Snipe (and the morphs) were the staple of a single target bow build for PVE. People were running combos of Hawks Eye and Morag Tong, and they were pulling very competitive numbers in trials and that sort of thing by weaving snip and a few DoTs/Buffs. The problem was, that this translated into people getting one-shot in PVP left and right, so the bow got a pretty big nerf. The bow is probably the biggest victim of the balance issues that stem from trying to deal with both PVE and PVP.

Please understand that I am not telling anyone that you cant play with a bow effectively to clear just about anything in the game. However, if you are trying to pull competitive numbers in a trial setting (i.e. do more DPS than the guys standing next to you), bow is near the bottom of the list as a main bar weapon. As a back bar weapon, it is great. It has some great DoTs that can tick really hard (especially with a maelstrom bow), but the vast majority of DPS from competitive stamina players is coming from Dual Wield, not the bow.

I would love to see the bow as a competitive weapon again for trials and such, but it would probably require a rework of snipe to keep the PVE/PVP balance.

I used the bow until I hit 50. It seemed to lose alot of it's punch in vet levels. I put points back into bow at vet 13. Totally unimpressed. Best used for killing squirrels and rats.

susmitds

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

There have to be other players out there who do not try to get the best gear, best setup, max stats, and simply attempt to play, have fun, and find their own entertainment.

For example: I recently made a TBS set in all Akiviri med armor for my V16 Orc stam NB. Had to make the Soul-shriven 2H sword to match (since it's really the only samurai looking sword). And even though it certainly doesn't have the damage ability of my Hunding setup, I find that I'm getting much more enjoyment out of it. I use mostly 2H abilities since they feel more like swordplay, and I stopped animation canceling because it feels more realistic since I can see the actions. Sometimes I like to hunt squirrels and rabbits and pick flowers, cause my Orc is the strong silent type, but he is also pragmatic and sensitive. Basically I'm playing up the Samurai persona, and yes I know that's not the lore but who cares.

Does anyone else follow a similar (yet your own) path? Nothing against people who want the baddest setup and skills, but it started to become a drag.

So what do you do to entertain yourself besides questing and PvP? Fishing expeditions? Talk with everyone in town? Steal ingredients to make stacks of food to sell? I want to hear ideas, because I want to try them out. Especially the bizarre ones.

Do tell...

Honesty speaking, TBS out performs Hundings Rage in quite a few situations and for crit builds, TBS is definitely superior.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Samwell Slayer wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

First TBS is probably better than hundings in a proper group setting so nice job min/maxing. Haha.

I think the vast majority of people play like that. I did for the better part of a year. I was a dagger and bow NB at launch and it was a long time before any min/maxer would even consider it to be viable.

That being said, at some point a little min/maxing goes a long way. The vast majority of this game can be completed with almost no thought to a build. Hovever, if you want to be competitive at end game, "play the way you want" sort of flies out the window.

Just made a post about TBS vs Juli for group play.

KK, done advertising for myself. Bow was not viable for pve for a year, and they changed it so that it is. The fact that you were using bow for a year before that does not mean you had some great insight, it just means you used bow back when it sucked. No offense.

Never said I had any great insight. I was pointing out that for a long time I ran a sub-optimal build because I wanted to play dagger/bow regardless of performance. In other words, not min/maxing. That was the point of this thread.

Also, bow is still terrible single target DPS in PVE. There was a period for a few months when it was really good, but it was short lived. Bow has not been competitive as a main bar weapon in quite some time. Is is viable, sure, but people are clearing vWGT with nothing but light attacks. Almost anything is viable. However, it's certainly not competitive.

Again, kind of my point. Play the way you want works for most things in this game unless you are talking competitive end-game. Some people like to compete and some don't. Neither group is in the wrong.

I dont understand why a bow isnt a good main bar weapon to have for PvE. This is all I use on all my alts. I have no problems with it giving me the damage I need when I need it.I have dual wield on my second bar and switch when caught in close up combat.
I can see that it might be a problem in PvP though.

I am not saying you cant make it work, but when you compare it to other ranged options like a Magic NB or a Magic Sorc with a destro staff, the numbers you pull wont be in the same ball park. Again we are discussing the distinction between what is viable and what is competitive.

As a general rule, Melee Damage is going to be better than ranged damage, although the gap is not nearly as far apart as it used to be. It makes sense that way. Playing Melee is generally tougher. You are exposed to more mechanics and it requires good mobility, etc. Range has always been a "safer" way to play, and that generally comes with a DPS loss.

Bow is actually a better weapon for PVP as a main bar than PVE, especially if going for a ganker build. What happened a while back was that Snipe (and the morphs) were the staple of a single target bow build for PVE. People were running combos of Hawks Eye and Morag Tong, and they were pulling very competitive numbers in trials and that sort of thing by weaving snip and a few DoTs/Buffs. The problem was, that this translated into people getting one-shot in PVP left and right, so the bow got a pretty big nerf. The bow is probably the biggest victim of the balance issues that stem from trying to deal with both PVE and PVP.

Please understand that I am not telling anyone that you cant play with a bow effectively to clear just about anything in the game. However, if you are trying to pull competitive numbers in a trial setting (i.e. do more DPS than the guys standing next to you), bow is near the bottom of the list as a main bar weapon. As a back bar weapon, it is great. It has some great DoTs that can tick really hard (especially with a maelstrom bow), but the vast majority of DPS from competitive stamina players is coming from Dual Wield, not the bow.

I would love to see the bow as a competitive weapon again for trials and such, but it would probably require a rework of snipe to keep the PVE/PVP balance.

I used the bow until I hit 50. It seemed to lose alot of it's punch in vet levels. I put points back into bow at vet 13. Totally unimpressed. Best used for killing squirrels and rats.

Yeah, it's really hard to discuss balance unless you are comparing v16 characters with close to optimal gear/builds. Lot's of things feel completely useless at low levels that turn out to be great at end game and vice versa. I have been trying to level stam DK before the patch drops. I switched to bow as a main bar weapon once my DW hit 50 so i can get it leveled. Sure I can solo world bosses and public dungeons with a bow, but it takes twice as long. For some a clear is enough, for others, its the efficiency of the clear that matters. Again, neither group is wrong. Personally I would rather clear VICP in 30 minutes than 2 hours, but what do I know. haha

Bow is "best" used in PVE as a DOT/Buff bar. For example, open a fight with a few self buffs, Scorched earth and poison injection, and then switch to dual wield and wreck things while your Bow DoTs are ticking. When they run out, switch back and reapply, but hanging out on your bow bar is not going to result in particularly high numbers.

The bow has 2 viable spam DPS skills. Arrow Spray (and morphs) is pretty decent AOE, but it has nothing on Steel Tornado from the DW line. Snipe (and Morphs) hits very hard, but the cast time is long. This results in overall lower DPS than other ranged options. Poison Arrow and Volley are good DoTs, but DoTs should never be reapplied before cooldown, in other words, spamming them is bad. Scatter shot is really a PVP skill that is only situationally useful IMO. I have never found it worth a slot on my bar in PVE or PVP.

Florial

I'll take a gander at a guide here and there for good skills to have or optimal gear. My crafter is mostly 9/9 in all her research so I can make whatever with my stockpile of materials and skills. The number of choices for gear can be overwhelming so getting some good advice from a guide or listening to banter in guild chat can be quite helpful. If I ever got very serious about getting all v16 gold gear, I would probably consult a guide and go after the more popular choices. Right now my poor v16s are in v14 gear and I really need to get on the ball to upgrade them at some point. Then again I will procrastinate until the next DLC me thinks lol.

With that said though, I'll play my character in a style that is comfortable for me. I've read some min/max guides and some of the keyboard gymnastics required didn't sit well with me or my wrists. Or frankly my playstyle. Most of my characters are pretty survivable and I can tackle most of the content comfortably. If I were to start running dungeons seriously (not likely), I would probably read up a bit more if my DPS or healing was subpar for example. Mostly I just do my own thing and have fun.

Annalyse

I've always played my own way. My VR16 characters wear crafted gear in sets I like and I'm happy with that. I might use skills that other people question, or not use one that people seem to deem absolutely necessary, but for me a game is all about fun and I am having fun with it!

That said, I do play almost entirely solo and do not like PvP. I got pretty sick of the mindset in PUGs in the past games I played (watching people being kicked for a reason like slightly underlevelled gear even though they were great players) so I've just avoided all of that with ESO.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Florial wrote: »

I'll take a gander at a guide here and there for good skills to have or optimal gear. My crafter is mostly 9/9 in all her research so I can make whatever with my stockpile of materials and skills. The number of choices for gear can be overwhelming so getting some good advice from a guide or listening to banter in guild chat can be quite helpful. If I ever got very serious about getting all v16 gold gear, I would probably consult a guide and go after the more popular choices. Right now my poor v16s are in v14 gear and I really need to get on the ball to upgrade them at some point. Then again I will procrastinate until the next DLC me thinks lol.

With that said though, I'll play my character in a style that is comfortable for me. I've read some min/max guides and some of the keyboard gymnastics required didn't sit well with me or my wrists. Or frankly my playstyle. Most of my characters are pretty survivable and I can tackle most of the content comfortably. If I were to start running dungeons seriously (not likely), I would probably read up a bit more if my DPS or healing was subpar for example. Mostly I just do my own thing and have fun.

Best comment on this thread. You seem to understand that the most important thing is to play comfortably and have fun, but also realize that if you want to compete in a group setting, you will likely have to make a few adjustments. Pretty much what I have been ranting about. haha

Father_X_Zombie

I use an Imperial magicka sorc, i know the feeling of not min/maxing

GivvumBoane

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

GivvumBoane wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Samwell Slayer wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

First TBS is probably better than hundings in a proper group setting so nice job min/maxing. Haha.

I think the vast majority of people play like that. I did for the better part of a year. I was a dagger and bow NB at launch and it was a long time before any min/maxer would even consider it to be viable.

That being said, at some point a little min/maxing goes a long way. The vast majority of this game can be completed with almost no thought to a build. Hovever, if you want to be competitive at end game, "play the way you want" sort of flies out the window.

Just made a post about TBS vs Juli for group play.

KK, done advertising for myself. Bow was not viable for pve for a year, and they changed it so that it is. The fact that you were using bow for a year before that does not mean you had some great insight, it just means you used bow back when it sucked. No offense.

Never said I had any great insight. I was pointing out that for a long time I ran a sub-optimal build because I wanted to play dagger/bow regardless of performance. In other words, not min/maxing. That was the point of this thread.

Also, bow is still terrible single target DPS in PVE. There was a period for a few months when it was really good, but it was short lived. Bow has not been competitive as a main bar weapon in quite some time. Is is viable, sure, but people are clearing vWGT with nothing but light attacks. Almost anything is viable. However, it's certainly not competitive.

Again, kind of my point. Play the way you want works for most things in this game unless you are talking competitive end-game. Some people like to compete and some don't. Neither group is in the wrong.

I dont understand why a bow isnt a good main bar weapon to have for PvE. This is all I use on all my alts. I have no problems with it giving me the damage I need when I need it.I have dual wield on my second bar and switch when caught in close up combat.
I can see that it might be a problem in PvP though.

I am not saying you cant make it work, but when you compare it to other ranged options like a Magic NB or a Magic Sorc with a destro staff, the numbers you pull wont be in the same ball park. Again we are discussing the distinction between what is viable and what is competitive.

As a general rule, Melee Damage is going to be better than ranged damage, although the gap is not nearly as far apart as it used to be. It makes sense that way. Playing Melee is generally tougher. You are exposed to more mechanics and it requires good mobility, etc. Range has always been a "safer" way to play, and that generally comes with a DPS loss.

Bow is actually a better weapon for PVP as a main bar than PVE, especially if going for a ganker build. What happened a while back was that Snipe (and the morphs) were the staple of a single target bow build for PVE. People were running combos of Hawks Eye and Morag Tong, and they were pulling very competitive numbers in trials and that sort of thing by weaving snip and a few DoTs/Buffs. The problem was, that this translated into people getting one-shot in PVP left and right, so the bow got a pretty big nerf. The bow is probably the biggest victim of the balance issues that stem from trying to deal with both PVE and PVP.

Please understand that I am not telling anyone that you cant play with a bow effectively to clear just about anything in the game. However, if you are trying to pull competitive numbers in a trial setting (i.e. do more DPS than the guys standing next to you), bow is near the bottom of the list as a main bar weapon. As a back bar weapon, it is great. It has some great DoTs that can tick really hard (especially with a maelstrom bow), but the vast majority of DPS from competitive stamina players is coming from Dual Wield, not the bow.

I would love to see the bow as a competitive weapon again for trials and such, but it would probably require a rework of snipe to keep the PVE/PVP balance.

I used the bow until I hit 50. It seemed to lose alot of it's punch in vet levels. I put points back into bow at vet 13. Totally unimpressed. Best used for killing squirrels and rats.

Yeah, it's really hard to discuss balance unless you are comparing v16 characters with close to optimal gear/builds. Lot's of things feel completely useless at low levels that turn out to be great at end game and vice versa. I have been trying to level stam DK before the patch drops. I switched to bow as a main bar weapon once my DW hit 50 so i can get it leveled. Sure I can solo world bosses and public dungeons with a bow, but it takes twice as long. For some a clear is enough, for others, its the efficiency of the clear that matters. Again, neither group is wrong. Personally I would rather clear VICP in 30 minutes than 2 hours, but what do I know. haha

Bow is "best" used in PVE as a DOT/Buff bar. For example, open a fight with a few self buffs, Scorched earth and poison injection, and then switch to dual wield and wreck things while your Bow DoTs are ticking. When they run out, switch back and reapply, but hanging out on your bow bar is not going to result in particularly high numbers.

The bow has 2 viable spam DPS skills. Arrow Spray (and morphs) is pretty decent AOE, but it has nothing on Steel Tornado from the DW line. Snipe (and Morphs) hits very hard, but the cast time is long. This results in overall lower DPS than other ranged options. Poison Arrow and Volley are good DoTs, but DoTs should never be reapplied before cooldown, in other words, spamming them is bad. Scatter shot is really a PVP skill that is only situationally useful IMO. I have never found it worth a slot on my bar in PVE or PVP.

I ran bow only until 50. Had problems dealing with molag Bal at range, so went to dual wield. When I wiped him with in morphed abilities easily, I was thinking "screw the bow".

Osteos

disintegr8 wrote: »

I might role a healer to see what the other side feels like but even that might be a magicka based nightblade rather than a templar as I currently only do PVE.

Go for it! Magicka nb healer is a lot of fun, viable and completely competitive. Nicest part is other group members have to be responsible for there own resource management No one nagging you to throw shards lol

GivvumBoane

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

I might role a healer to see what the other side feels like but even that might be a magicka based nightblade rather than a templar as I currently only do PVE.

Go for it! Magicka nb healer is a lot of fun, viable and completely competitive. Nicest part is other group members have to be responsible for there own resource management No one nagging you to throw shards lol

Second this

GilGalad

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

[...]Sometimes I like to hunt squirrels [...]

No. Just no.

Aodra

I generally have a story in my head for each character & so play in line with that. Each thing that happens in game shapes what they become over time & though I don't openly RP with others I do in my head. I'm a solo player so I just tackle what I want, when I want. I create armor pieces that look nice without caring if it's the 'best'.

GivvumBoane

Gil.Galad wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

[...]Sometimes I like to hunt squirrels [...]

No. Just no.

Aww c'mon squirrels is good eatin. And you can use their inards to catch fishies (more good eatin)

Vigarr

I've been using stolen rams head staffs for my new vamp even though they're weaker then others as it suits him-

Uriel_Nocturne

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

There have to be other players out there who do not try to get the best gear, best setup, max stats, and simply attempt to play, have fun, and find their own entertainment.

For example: I recently made a TBS set in all Akiviri med armor for my V16 Orc stam NB. Had to make the Soul-shriven 2H sword to match (since it's really the only samurai looking sword). And even though it certainly doesn't have the damage ability of my Hunding setup, I find that I'm getting much more enjoyment out of it. I use mostly 2H abilities since they feel more like swordplay, and I stopped animation canceling because it feels more realistic since I can see the actions. Sometimes I like to hunt squirrels and rabbits and pick flowers, cause my Orc is the strong silent type, but he is also pragmatic and sensitive. Basically I'm playing up the Samurai persona, and yes I know that's not the lore but who cares.

Does anyone else follow a similar (yet your own) path? Nothing against people who want the baddest setup and skills, but it started to become a drag.

So what do you do to entertain yourself besides questing and PvP? Fishing expeditions? Talk with everyone in town? Steal ingredients to make stacks of food to sell? I want to hear ideas, because I want to try them out. Especially the bizarre ones.

Do tell...

Great post, OP!

I myself (like other people have said already) don't care in any way what the current Flavor of the Month is. All the gear on all my characters fits in with those characters' stories. From the Sets I craft to the rotation of Skills that they use, my characters were all back-stories before they ever got created in the game.

I RP pretty heavily. I come from a storied history of MMO's, and was playing MMO's before any kind of PvP or Min/Max'ing was introduced into the genre.

They use the Crafted Sets that best fit the builds that go along with their stories, and I find the most amazing fun in running around with my characters because of that.

My Main Sorcerer for instance; has taken a break from solving the problems of the world. He has need of crafting mats of all types for a side business of his, so he's currently going through the various land he has currently traveled and stocking up on those mats. But he's having a blast seeing the sites and will stop to watch a sunset through an Ash Storm whenever he's in Stonefalls. The peaceful tranquility of the last rays of sunlight peeking through the falling ash has a very calming effect.

But the whole Min/Max FotM mania that grips most people just seems ignorant and silly to me. I guess I'm helped by the fact that I don't really give two poop-turds about PvP or about running a Vet Dungeon in "record time".

Most of those FotM die-hards don't seem to realize that a group of four can make their way through a Vet Dungeon just fine, and that the Min/Max mentality or FotM simply isn't as necessary as they would like you to believe. When I'm in a PUG and people start criticizing someone's Build or Skill rotation because it isn't the FotM build... I usually just quietly leave the Group and Dungeon and leave that pettiness behind.

The Story and the Journey are much more important to me than screaming to the End Game as fast as possible.

I've found that; if you get to the End Game in that manner and that quickly, those people are usually the first people to get burned out on the game and to start whining about not having enough to do, even though they've just skipped the biggest portion(s) of the game by trying to grind to the End Game.

Makes no sense to me...

FortheloveofKrist

Gil.Galad wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

[...]Sometimes I like to hunt squirrels [...]

No. Just no.

Why not? Small game on PS4 sells for around 100g each. It takes about 30 minutes (if you're an expert squirrel hunter like myself) to get a stack of 100. So I'd say 10000g for 30 min is pretty good.

Not to mention, it's actually fun. You have to listen for the squirrels and rabbits, and you gotta know the good hunting spots.

Or were you just being poopy for negativity sake?

Daishichi

Great thread, @FortheloveofKrist; appreciate many of the responses too.

I'm pretty much lost in the middle...literally, in the sense that I bought my Xbox One mostly so I could hang out online with my older and younger brothers.

While I'm the guy who has played every Assassin's Creed as much for the historical fiction and beautifully rendered cities as the action, I've never successfully talked my brothers into joining me for pvp or co-op. Instead we've mostly thrown balls or shot bullets, neither being my preferred genre, until interest fades (typically, my older brother is obsessive about the latest game for a month, then gives up when he feels he's being outplayed by teenagers with endless time and mommy's credit card).

We got ESO for Xbox because one of our longest running games was Everquest on PS2. After most of a year on ESO, my younger brother is a guild leader and is pursuing all the end-game stuff that gets you the gear to be competitive in PVP; he thinks of this game (not gaming) as his singular hobby. The other brother has mostly burned out on ESO as described above.

So I come on these forums looking for tips to make my main character stronger...I care about being useful and helpful to my group and guilds, and sometimes I'm frustrated that hundreds of hours invested still makes me a chump when ganked by a 501+, or wiped by a boss that makes me look (and feel) like a beginner.

But, when it's just me, I dig the stories, the scenery, and the character progression. I'm going to try to keep up with my hardcore bro, and kicking butt with him always feels great. But I think I'll always most enjoy those weeks after a new DLC drops, when there's a new quest line to complete, a new skill line to level, and a new area to explore.

I've chimed in on another thread this week re: "Casual gamers"...and one well-received definition offered there was "Hardcore players find their fun in the result, not the journey" (Thanks, @TheDarkShadow). I'm in the middle there too: I dig the journey, but I do like having and reaching destinations...realistic, reasonable destinations. Unlocking my final research trait and making my own Twice Born armor felt cool. But realizing I'd spent hundreds of hours grinding a Vet Dungeon for a random drop would make me seriously worry about how I'm spending my time.