Dark Brotherhood Poisons now 60% drain

KingYogi415

@Dubhliam
Poisons being introduced to equal out with potions is the first point to make sense!

Dubhliam

KingYogi415 wrote: »

@Dubhliam
Poisons being introduced to equal out with potions is the first point to make sense!

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending ZOS in their senseless introduction of poisons with no regard to player feedback whatsoever.
I just want to put the current stats here for all to see, not everyone has access to PTS so they simply don't know.

I am sorry if this offends you in any way, but please stop calling me out personally.

KingYogi415

Thanks for posting current PTS values!
Cheers!

C0wrex

With this poison update?



Prepare the popcorn!!!!

OrphanHelgen

I can sustain molag kena constantly with 789 stamina recovery, and thats 33% increase cost (pve)
Pvp was out of control about sustain, that was one of the complains.
I say lets test this poison out, it might not be too bad.

NBrookus

We have effects that tick per second for half a second? LOL. I'm sure this text is dynamically generated but it would make more sense to leave off the duration when it's a single tick.

mtwiggz

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I can sustain molag kena constantly with 789 stamina recovery, and thats 33% increase cost (pve)
Pvp was out of control about sustain, that was one of the complains.
I say lets test this poison out, it might not be too bad.

Huge difference between PvE and PvP stamina recovery. Can't even begin to compare the two. Good luck winning any fight in PvP with 789 Stam recovery, ever. Aside from a gank, but that's not a fight - it's a sucker punch.

OrphanHelgen

mtwiggz wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I can sustain molag kena constantly with 789 stamina recovery, and thats 33% increase cost (pve)
Pvp was out of control about sustain, that was one of the complains.
I say lets test this poison out, it might not be too bad.

Huge difference between PvE and PvP stamina recovery. Can't even begin to compare the two. Good luck winning any fight in PvP with 789 Stam recovery, ever. Aside from a gank, but that's not a fight - it's a sucker punch.

ok so ignore my first sentence then and lets discuss the other part.
Pvp was out of control when it comes to sustain. Isnt this a good change then?
Btw how long are the poison duration?
I also dont think someone can sustain constant poison in pvp like for a whole day, I might be wrong here, but it consumes quick?
I already see all the mushrooms out of stock in guild stores.

svartorn

Dubhliam wrote: »

These are the values from PTS (today):

As you can see, only the single effect Ravage Stamina poison has the 10 seconds duration, with a 10 second cooldown, all the rest have a lower uptime.

RIP cyrodiil

Glory

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can we have an antidote at least? Like instead of slotting poisons we can slot antidotes which cure poison effects and give 10s immunity or something? That way there is at least a balancing component?

Aiphaton

Pvp was out of control when it comes to sustain. Isnt this a good change then?
Btw how long are the poison duration?

Out of controll ahaha pls
Good player knew how to play with some dmg and sustain so they were still able to play 1vs X till now,
Now having Sustain against a bunch of bad players is going to be fun ?
Zenimax is just dont care about good Pvpers, they want the Ep Zerg like Decimation Elite or other Zwegs with 40 people which are chasing a single person from Chal to Dragonclaw or even Bleakers to Aleswell ?
You wanna get rid of a zerg with poison that will never happen!
Its allready hard as player which isnt playind Redguard Dk or Highelf Sorc, or Darkelf Dk/Nb .

People who took the wrong class like Nord,Argonian or even Orc are screwed they dont have any "Stamina Regen Passive" or the Op Passive from Redguard.
Zenimax is just not aware to balance the game!

arkansas_ESO

The core issue with poisons is this:

• If ZOS makes poisons strong, everybody will be obligated to use them to remain competitive, in both PVP and PVE.
• If ZOS makes poisons weak, then nobody will bother keeping up with yet another consumable for a minimal return, which means the time ZOS spent developing the system was ultimately for nothing.

They really shouldn't be added into the game in the first place, as it's increasingly apparent this new system will cause more balance issues than it will interesting new gameplay. All this does is make the game more grindy.

KingYogi415

As a day one destiny player I know how quickly devs can destroy a game. Have to remain hopefull ESO wont do the same.

Dubhliam

KingYogi415 wrote: »

As a day one destiny player I know how quickly devs can destroy a game. Have to remain hopefull ESO wont do the same.

They should really go and have a look at that fiasco.

And their player number were always public, you could clearly see something backfired.

KramUzibra

Aiphaton wrote: »

Pvp was out of control when it comes to sustain. Isnt this a good change then?
Btw how long are the poison duration?

Out of controll ahaha pls
Good player knew how to play with some dmg and sustain so they were still able to play 1vs X till now,
Now having Sustain against a bunch of bad players is going to be fun ?
Zenimax is just dont care about good Pvpers, they want the Ep Zerg like Decimation Elite or other Zwegs with 40 people which are chasing a single person from Chal to Dragonclaw or even Bleakers to Aleswell ?
You wanna get rid of a zerg with poison that will never happen!
Its allready hard as player which isnt playind Redguard Dk or Highelf Sorc, or Darkelf Dk/Nb .

People who took the wrong class like Nord,Argonian or even Orc are screwed they dont have any "Stamina Regen Passive" or the Op Passive from Redguard.
Zenimax is just not aware to balance the game!

Mr erik on eso live said when a player comes up against 10 or 20 players they will die anyways. With using situational awareness and utilizing the environment I been able to stay alive while fighting multiple opponents at least until my reinforcements arrive. So I strongly disagree with his statement.

Korah_Eaglecry

Unfortunately ZOS and a lot of other companies have gotten it into their heads that their vision is more important then the feedback that says otherwise. I dont think this is going to break the game or send people leaving in droves. But this constant "We're right til its hurting our profits" attitude on part of ZOS is going to come back to haunt them in content further down the road.

We told them it was terrible idea to make IC into a gankfest and Wrobel sat on ESO Live with that big cheesy grin laughing about it. And what happened? That place was abandoned after a month. The average PvPer went back to Cyrodiil Proper and rarely if ever goes back there. Now theyre spending more developer time correcting what they should of never implemented in the first place. And this will be the same here with poisons. Theyll introduce a system that fits their vision and itll backfire when people start to realize they cant sustain themselves in a fight any longer and their dropping dead faster then the lag can kill them.

Tholian1

Dubhliam wrote: »

These are the values from PTS (today):

As you can see, only the single effect Ravage Stamina poison has the 10 seconds duration, with a 10 second cooldown, all the rest have a lower uptime.

10 seconds is an eternity in a fight. Best of luck to all you PvP players. I hope we don't have to deal with these from the NPCs in PvE.

STEVIL

KramUzibra wrote: »

Aiphaton wrote: »

Pvp was out of control when it comes to sustain. Isnt this a good change then?
Btw how long are the poison duration?

Out of controll ahaha pls
Good player knew how to play with some dmg and sustain so they were still able to play 1vs X till now,
Now having Sustain against a bunch of bad players is going to be fun ?
Zenimax is just dont care about good Pvpers, they want the Ep Zerg like Decimation Elite or other Zwegs with 40 people which are chasing a single person from Chal to Dragonclaw or even Bleakers to Aleswell ?
You wanna get rid of a zerg with poison that will never happen!
Its allready hard as player which isnt playind Redguard Dk or Highelf Sorc, or Darkelf Dk/Nb .

People who took the wrong class like Nord,Argonian or even Orc are screwed they dont have any "Stamina Regen Passive" or the Op Passive from Redguard.
Zenimax is just not aware to balance the game!

Mr erik on eso live said when a player comes up against 10 or 20 players they will die anyways. With using situational awareness and utilizing the environment I been able to stay alive while fighting multiple opponents at least until my reinforcements arrive. So I strongly disagree with his statement.

So by multiple do you mean 10-20 fighting or do you mean some lower number and you just threw your anecdote in with vague terms hoping people wouldn't notice the switcheroo?

Their comment wasn't "in the vicinity of 20 people poisons or other stuff will kill you" but rather "when attacked by 20 people"

But hey, if you can maintain combat now against 20 people thats great. likely you never have to even fear anyone single.

Enjoy your immortality while it lasts.

But as a side note, if a group of lets say average ability players wants to group up for protection from solo elite immortals and go run the pve quests in IC, how many should they need to be able to survive long enough or even maybe discourage mass executioner solo monsters like yourself?

Is 200 enough that they should have to get before feeling safe vs one elite massacre machine like you can run?

is 2000?

200000000000000000000?

WEhere is the balance point at which YOU think the game should place odds of a fight being 50/50 between one elite player and X average players?

it seems you think X=20 is too low.

So, i am curious, what number should be correct?

How helpless should average player be vs the elite for the game to suit your particular tastes?

PurifedBladez

STEVIL wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Eso live said going live poisons @60%

This is a joke, right? Right @ZOS_GinaBruno ? You guys can't honestly think that this is a good idea.

Not a joke. Had a good discussion on the subject. makes sense.

Cant wait.

I'm sorry, you thought that was a good discussion? ESO Live is almost as sad as the actual game in its current state right now. Wrobel is a clown.. ESO Live was nothing but them dodging questions, talking up potions and, seling product. It was terrible.

STEVIL

PurifedBladez wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Eso live said going live poisons @60%

This is a joke, right? Right @ZOS_GinaBruno ? You guys can't honestly think that this is a good idea.

Not a joke. Had a good discussion on the subject. makes sense.

Cant wait.

I'm sorry, you thought that was a good discussion? ESO Live is almost as sad as the actual game in its current state right now. Wrobel is a clown.. ESO Live was nothing but them dodging questions, talking up potions and, seling product. It was terrible.

I can understand being sorry that someone did not enjoy something but being sorry that they did? That is a new one on me. So would you be happier if i was as dissatisfied as you? Misery loves company?

But this is why they hsve lotsa flavors of ice cream.

My best recommendation is if you dont enjoy eso live, dont login and watch them.

Me, i will keep going as long as they are enjoyable and informative.

ZakuBeta

So....wouldn't the opposite effect potion be the antidote? 60% increase vs 60% decrease? I just started doing potions, because, well, my character concept as an assassin, and poisons fit. While not a full RPer, I do build with RPing in mind. I have specific build concepts going in my mind when I create a character. Doesn't food give stat boosts too? Sounds to me like poisons are a way to reduce the effects of food and potions, without actually nerfing food and potions. What is the effect of the best food and potion you can make? Is it better or equal to the poison? Can you stack food and potions?

I tried PvP a couple times, I am not so good at it, but I don't grind my characters up to max as quick as possible either. I've been playing since the Xbox release, and can do okay, but the amount of CPs my opponents have usually kills me. Not to mention lag. I keep reading that people use food for buffs, but since I haven't used food yet, I'm not sure how much of a buff it gives.

JamilaRaj

LinearParadox wrote: »

Okay, first of all I'm going to be the jerk and say this straight out... everyone here claiming, or that has claimed, that this 'poison imbalance' is a way to milk the playerbase, force DLC involvement/purchase, etc, is a MORON. It's in the BASE GAME PATCH DUMMY. You have to buy LITERALLY NOTHING to use poisons. Jeeeeez -.-

Which begs the next question: aside from using poisons, can you also procure them without the DLC as easily (or difficultly) as with the DLC? If you indeed can not, then the fact you can use them is irrelevant. In the end people without the DLC would tend to be less well supplied with poisons, which would make the mechanics a) a vehicle to drive DLC sales and b) P2W.

Dubhliam

JamilaRaj wrote: »

LinearParadox wrote: »

Okay, first of all I'm going to be the jerk and say this straight out... everyone here claiming, or that has claimed, that this 'poison imbalance' is a way to milk the playerbase, force DLC involvement/purchase, etc, is a MORON. It's in the BASE GAME PATCH DUMMY. You have to buy LITERALLY NOTHING to use poisons. Jeeeeez -.-

Which begs the next question: aside from using poisons, can you also procure them without the DLC as easily (or difficultly) as with the DLC? If you indeed can not, then the fact you can use them is irrelevant. In the end people without the DLC would tend to be less well supplied with poisons, which would make the mechanics a) a vehicle to drive DLC sales and b) P2W.

Reagents for poisons are THE SAME reagents you use for potions.
There are some new reagents added, all of which are spread out all across the base game patch.
If there is one reagent that is locked behind the DLC, I am not aware of it.

SwaminoNowlino

Surak73 wrote: »

Is this effect cancelled by the snakesomething passive of alchemy? If so, 3 skill points and you are safe...

No. They said on ESO Live they didn't want everyone to have access to a counter measure

Dubhliam

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Is this effect cancelled by the snakesomething passive of alchemy? If so, 3 skill points and you are safe...

No. They said on ESO Live they didn't want everyone to have access to a counter measure

They CAN be purged however, don't leave that part out.

I predict a big shift towards the templar meta coming.

SwaminoNowlino

Dubhliam wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Surak73 wrote: »

Is this effect cancelled by the snakesomething passive of alchemy? If so, 3 skill points and you are safe...

No. They said on ESO Live they didn't want everyone to have access to a counter measure

They CAN be purged however, don't leave that part out.

I predict a big shift towards the templar meta coming.

Lol yeah @FENGRUSH lost his *** on that one. The problem is that not everyone has access to purge. Which means if you're a Stam player you're going to have to group up with Magicka players or Templars.

This whole forcing people in to group things isn't great. This, the rapids change, and some of the heal changes mean they want you to be in groups. But groups produce Zergs and Zergs produce lag. It got so bad on stream the other day that FENGRUSH had to call in a bomb build nightblade.

My honest opinion is that poisons aren't geared towards open world PVP. These changes to force people into groups with specific roles has battlegrounds written all over it. Which is cool! But we don't have battlegrounds yet and no specific eta on them. I honestly wish they would hold off on poison implementation until we have battlegrounds, and make battlegrounds ignore battle spirit. That way you have have poisons nerfed in open world by battle spirit and have a much more dynamic and different setting in battlegrounds

Avenias

This is insane, like pvp is not imbalanced already. This time ZOS have truly lost their mind.

PurifedBladez

STEVIL wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Eso live said going live poisons @60%

This is a joke, right? Right @ZOS_GinaBruno ? You guys can't honestly think that this is a good idea.

Not a joke. Had a good discussion on the subject. makes sense.

Cant wait.

I'm sorry, you thought that was a good discussion? ESO Live is almost as sad as the actual game in its current state right now. Wrobel is a clown.. ESO Live was nothing but them dodging questions, talking up potions and, seling product. It was terrible.

I can understand being sorry that someone did not enjoy something but being sorry that they did? That is a new one on me. So would you be happier if i was as dissatisfied as you? Misery loves company?

But this is why they hsve lotsa flavors of ice cream.

My best recommendation is if you dont enjoy eso live, dont login and watch them.

Me, i will keep going as long as they are enjoyable and informative.

More like I dont understand or couldn't comprehend that you actually thought that last episode of eso live was good. Theyre so nonchalant about ruining the game.


You do that man.

STEVIL

PurifedBladez wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Eso live said going live poisons @60%

This is a joke, right? Right @ZOS_GinaBruno ? You guys can't honestly think that this is a good idea.

Not a joke. Had a good discussion on the subject. makes sense.

Cant wait.

I'm sorry, you thought that was a good discussion? ESO Live is almost as sad as the actual game in its current state right now. Wrobel is a clown.. ESO Live was nothing but them dodging questions, talking up potions and, seling product. It was terrible.

I can understand being sorry that someone did not enjoy something but being sorry that they did? That is a new one on me. So would you be happier if i was as dissatisfied as you? Misery loves company?

But this is why they hsve lotsa flavors of ice cream.

My best recommendation is if you dont enjoy eso live, dont login and watch them.

Me, i will keep going as long as they are enjoyable and informative.

More like I dont understand or couldn't comprehend that you actually thought that last episode of eso live was good. Theyre so nonchalant about ruining the game.


You do that man.

I dont recall them ever ssying anything about ruining the game, so my guess is you are just projecting your opinions as facts?

But again, if you dont find them enjoyable i would suggest not attending.

Enjoy.

arkansas_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

Aiphaton wrote: »

Pvp was out of control when it comes to sustain. Isnt this a good change then?
Btw how long are the poison duration?

Out of controll ahaha pls
Good player knew how to play with some dmg and sustain so they were still able to play 1vs X till now,
Now having Sustain against a bunch of bad players is going to be fun ?
Zenimax is just dont care about good Pvpers, they want the Ep Zerg like Decimation Elite or other Zwegs with 40 people which are chasing a single person from Chal to Dragonclaw or even Bleakers to Aleswell ?
You wanna get rid of a zerg with poison that will never happen!
Its allready hard as player which isnt playind Redguard Dk or Highelf Sorc, or Darkelf Dk/Nb .

People who took the wrong class like Nord,Argonian or even Orc are screwed they dont have any "Stamina Regen Passive" or the Op Passive from Redguard.
Zenimax is just not aware to balance the game!

Mr erik on eso live said when a player comes up against 10 or 20 players they will die anyways. With using situational awareness and utilizing the environment I been able to stay alive while fighting multiple opponents at least until my reinforcements arrive. So I strongly disagree with his statement.

So by multiple do you mean 10-20 fighting or do you mean some lower number and you just threw your anecdote in with vague terms hoping people wouldn't notice the switcheroo?

Their comment wasn't "in the vicinity of 20 people poisons or other stuff will kill you" but rather "when attacked by 20 people"

But hey, if you can maintain combat now against 20 people thats great. likely you never have to even fear anyone single.

Enjoy your immortality while it lasts.

But as a side note, if a group of lets say average ability players wants to group up for protection from solo elite immortals and go run the pve quests in IC, how many should they need to be able to survive long enough or even maybe discourage mass executioner solo monsters like yourself?

Is 200 enough that they should have to get before feeling safe vs one elite massacre machine like you can run?

is 2000?

200000000000000000000?

WEhere is the balance point at which YOU think the game should place odds of a fight being 50/50 between one elite player and X average players?

it seems you think X=20 is too low.

So, i am curious, what number should be correct?

How helpless should average player be vs the elite for the game to suit your particular tastes?

Seriously, the only reason the "elite" are able to become "mass executioner solo monsters" like you say is because, for the most part, they understand the game's mechanics better than the players they're facing. Shouldn't the game reward players who actually understand how the game works?