Dark Brotherhood Poisons now 60% drain

Sunburnt_Penguin

Edited to remove quoted content that was removed

Tryxus wrote: »

I haven't played on PTS but I'm struggling to see any sustainable ways to counter the 60% increase:
1. There's no consumable antidote
2. If Purge removes them I don't see how that's sustainable without a poison cool down as if you're a Stamina build, 50% of your pool (~4.5k cost) has already gone purging the first one, whereas if you're a Magicka build it's ~20% (assuming they've increased the cost of it)
3. They will be used primarily by Archers and it's extremely difficult to dodge/see any projectile coming that isn't Snipe. So it will require constant dodge rolling and Shuffling when you see Archers at the back of a group in order to evade their spamming of attacks. That then leaves you weak against melee builds in which I'm guessing a lesser amount of whom will also be running poisons.

The only build which I can see that has any possible chance of countering the 60% increase is 2H & Bow Stamina NBs, and that is only after recognising the cost increase (not sure if there's any visuals or not) and then cloaking away for the remaining duration. A DWing Stamina NB could well get mistaken for a Magicka NB, get hit with a Magicka poison and now his/her main utility abilities (Mass Hysteria, Siphoning Attacks, Relentless Focus, Cloak etc) are all far too expensive to use during combat.

I don't play PTS either, but I believe every stealth build will benefit from the poisons:

- NB can use Cloak to sneak up, apply the poison and give themselves a huge benefit with the 60% increase. Which is prob why ZOS reduced the damage on some of their attacks alrdy
- Bow builds (all classes) can indeed apply the poison from afar and from stealth too

But like I said: this could be a test from ZOS to see just how powerful the poisons should be. It's an all new game mechanic, so they're prob tweaking and testing it. Ofc, they could just be out of their minds...

Guess we can only wait and see[/quote]
Yeah, I agree it'll be good for stealth builds for initiating attacks but if they're still outnumbered after that first burst and suffer poisons then they'll get steamrolled - the same goes for any non-stealth build wanting to fight against larger numbers.

I really can't think of any way to counter the poisons and I can see it becoming a game of who applies the correct poison, the most: wins.

Amdar_Godkiller

Could it also be good for more hybrid Builds? If it hurts high/low builds the most, then that would seem a logical reason to implement it in this fashion.

SlayerTheDragon

I am willing to bet that with a near permanent 60% cost increase, you will still have more sustain than we had pre CP system with hard caps....

Korah_Eaglecry

LinearParadox wrote: »

Okay, first of all I'm going to be the jerk and say this straight out... everyone here claiming, or that has claimed, that this 'poison imbalance' is a way to milk the playerbase, force DLC involvement/purchase, etc, is a MORON. It's in the BASE GAME PATCH DUMMY. You have to buy LITERALLY NOTHING to use poisons. Jeeeeez -.-

That being said, I do agree that the cost Scaling is nuts. 30% was PLENTY, maybe even already more then enough, 60% is bonkers. I would've just made the poisons dock their resources pools directly for maybe 1K or so on proc, but the cost increase gave an interesting counter-play option with giving you the option to try to wait out the poison window, it's only about 3 seconds last I checked, but 60% is HUGE.
Also, it's a little janky because 60% of a skill you have min-mixed cost reduction on (light/med armor, champ points, etc) isn't that big a deal but say you go to use a 'full price' skill from your other pool like a Stam DK casting their armor buff... that's about 4K flat and the average Stam DK has about what... 10K Magicka total? With crap regen most likely... then BOOM 6K magicka gone in one cast. Isn't that a little extreme?

I'm putting in my vote to put them back to 30%, and these were the poisons I'd planned on using myself!

The moron is the guy too arrogant to actually read anything beyond one or two lines only turn around and start slinging insults.

If you disagree with what Ive said thats fine. But grow up, really. Getting your panties in that much of a bunch over what Ive said. And next time you want to slip some insults in, at least be a man...or woman. And tag me next time.

Youve added nothing that I havent already acknowledged about it being apart of the base game. But if you think players wont buy it up because its coming with the DLC added ontop of it. You dont know much about the dirty tricks companies play on its customer/consumer base and should pipe down.

Brrrofski

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I don't get what you are complaining about. You can use them yourself as well, it's not like your abilities now magically cost 60% more in pvp without you being able to do something to counter it.

Because some people play in small groups or solo - either way they're usually outnumbered. Good luck doing that with poisons.

Also, it either becomes a money game or you have to spend a lot of time farming mats just to be competitive. Not a lot of players idea of fun.

You have to do that anyways to be competitive. Are you going to complain now that you have to use armor and food to stay competitive or what?

Not really. People buy gold mats and pots. You can get decent pots with ap also. This is something else you'll need to buy. These are so good that you have to run them. Why wouldn't you?

I farm anyway, so I'm not complaining. I have 6 toons in gold gear with max alchemy. So I'll be fine getting potions.

I'm talking about balance between everyone. Good luck people already behind on CP who now have more of a resource issue.

I want to kill people because I have more skill or I put together a really good build. Not because I picked flowers more then him.

kevlarto_ESO

The abuse in pvp I think will be huge sad to say it.

Teridaxus

Well i suggested to change the new trait which gives more gold killing from npcs to a poison related trait, but nobody cared.

STEVIL

A couple things.

Enchants are getting a major uptick too,poisons disable enchants and have longer cooldown.
Net result weapons get a buff. Is it a 20% proc for poisons/ench on basic attack/skills now?

Also, for a while now the max single stat ignore sustain who cares about lowers cost enchants on jewelry has ruled the roost. Short term poisons that drastically raise your costs for brief periods may change that dynamic or at least make it a dynamic choice again.

Poisons allow a high level of variability to debuff "precisely" coordinated meta-designs.

Definitely going to shake things up.

Sounds like fun.

As for "poison scrolls online", yep, just like until now its been "enchantments" scrolls inline cuz so many people use enchantments on weapons to improve performance.

I am excited to see this new facet of customizable offense across all classes come to the game in whatever its final version is.

Draxys

lololol the latest way zos has justified me quitting. I keep on thinking of coming back, but asinine stuff like this makes me realize I made the right call in quitting.

frostitomik

Guys, calm down everything will be fine. I have about 30,000 flowers and mushrooms ready for this poison madness, can't wait to use them

Cously

Small scale will get expensive. Any tried poisons x zergs?

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed and edited some posts that were off-topic and threatening to derail this discussion.

milkbox

WTB more quickslots.

I'm already full up with siege, repair kits, coldfire, pots... *and* there seems to be a bug that doesn't allow me to add new items to quickslots when I'm anywhere near a battle. Where am I going to put different poisons?

I see the whole poison thing getting very frustrating, very quickly.

WalkingLegacy

Here goes ZOS, making the game more frustrating and less enjoyable to play.

I don't really care how this effects small scale PvP (IE gankers and gank squads) since Cyrodiil is suppose to be siege warfare.

But what the hell is the point of having CP system to reduce cost of abilities if poisons just make that kaput?

Raghul

This is just unbelievable

RazielSR

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Here goes ZOS, making the game more frustrating and less enjoyable to play.

I don't really care how this effects small scale PvP (IE gankers and gank squads) since Cyrodiil is suppose to be siege warfare.

But what the hell is the point of having CP system to reduce cost of abilities if poisons just make that kaput?

To buy dlcs(but you know...its all in the base game). Strategy.
Not that Im against this commercially speaking...I mean...it is a business after all and its normal.
Anyway i guess and hope this wont make it live because of all the claims. But you never know. Whatever goes live it will be a problem like I said and they will spend months trying to fix it. Just wait.

ButtersEP

That's a bit OP, but whatevs I guess

dennissomb16_ESO

The whole increase in weapon enchants/poisons is ridiculous. Power creep is already completely out of control and these new values just make things worse. I understand in the hardest dungeons/trials that every point of dps is a bonus but the damage in Cyrodil is over the top. Players already can do stupid amounts of damage and now even more, but little is done in the other aspects. Guards have gone from the early days of being something to be wary of (even a single guard) to being basically pointless.

Any player reasonable geared player can now take resources solo. Attacks out of stealth do so much damage that players can easily die without even getting a chance to break initial stun. Now they significantly boosting the damage from light and heavy attacks. It is just silly the power creep now

FLuFFyxMuFFiN

Good thing I don't PvP

Fallen_Ray

Pvp will be sooo unplayable with these around. Unless they implement poison resistance in game like in previous Elder Scrolls games. And I mean these type of poison not the "poison damage" type.

Ballzy321

I was having a good day til I read about this

slowpoke68

Will the Templar Spell Cleansing Ritual remove these new poison effects??

RDMyers65b14_ESO

You are acting like poisons proc all the time. It's only a 20% at best and gets lower with the smaller number of poisons you have equiped. If you have only a few, you may never see one proc.

rotaugen454

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

You are acting like poisons proc all the time. It's only a 20% at best and gets lower with the smaller number of poisons you have equiped. If you have only a few, you may never see one proc.

20% of the time, it works every time...

Egonieser

60%... Good lord..
On a bright side, if every single person uses poisons, it's "Balanced", might make some people feel like it's 1.5 all over again.

Oh my gerd, just thought what will happen in noCP campaigns where resource management and resource pools and cost reductions are already inherently reduced.
60% in a CP campaign will be bad, 60% in Azura and BwB will be devastating

sirrmattus

can someone tell me what the cooldown is on these poisons

NBrookus

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

You are acting like poisons proc all the time. It's only a 20% at best and gets lower with the smaller number of poisons you have equiped. If you have only a few, you may never see one proc.

Say that again when the bombard-spamming zerg comes out of stealth. In any PvP counter with more than a few opponents you WILL have multiple poison effects on you.

FatKidHatchets

The question is does the snakesblood passive from alchemy make you immune to poisons?

Francescolg

Very disappointing, they cleary do the wrong decisions..
Poisons should not be introduced in this game.

PainfulFAFA

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

The question is does the snakesblood passive from alchemy make you immune to poisons?

Make poisons so op youre forced to get dlc lol