Dark Brotherhood Poisons now 60% drain

bloodenragedb14_ESO

you know, the days i would go into cyrodiil were already scarce as it is, but with poisons being added........

well, suffice to say ive now cut those times from scarce, to none

me_ming

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I don't get what you are complaining about. You can use them yourself as well, it's not like your abilities now magically cost 60% more in pvp without you being able to do something to counter it.

Have you played the PTS? You insta die! It's pretty hard to counter something when you're dead, last time I checked.

DocFrost72

Look on the bright side; No more lag and easier emp pushes!

/Sarcasm

I'm not a fan of anything that messes with resources, already hate the breakfree mechanics.

nimander99

Good thing I dont use any abilities. Just light and heavy attacks for this Templar

Sunburnt_Penguin

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Korah_Eaglecry

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Oh theyre well aware of what theyre doing. The only thing this update has for PvPers really is the poisons. And theyre looking to make every penny they can from this DLC. So how do you convince PvPers to get the DB DLC? You introduce a purposely overpowered mechanic to the game.

Once they feel theyve milked the Dark Brotherhood Cow for every drop of milk they can squeeze out of it. Theyll nerf the poisons into the ground and theyll become effectively useless.

Leogon

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Couldn't agree more and I think it's time for some of them to be replaced. I know it's not nice to say something like that and I never thought I'd say that but it's getting ridiculous now and it has to stop.

KingYogi415

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Oh theyre well aware of what theyre doing. The only thing this update has for PvPers really is the poisons. And theyre looking to make every penny they can from this DLC. So how do you convince PvPers to get the DB DLC? You introduce a purposely overpowered mechanic to the game.

I totally agree with this, they put something OP every DLC to make players need it.
ICP= Molag kena
Wrothgar= Best grind spots in the game
Thieves Guild= Node City

But a huge pvp meta change for a profit grab? Am I playing Destiny???

Sunburnt_Penguin

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Oh theyre well aware of what theyre doing. The only thing this update has for PvPers really is the poisons. And theyre looking to make every penny they can from this DLC. So how do you convince PvPers to get the DB DLC? You introduce a purposely overpowered mechanic to the game.

Once they feel theyve milked the Dark Brotherhood Cow for every drop of milk it they can squeeze out of it. Theyll nerf the poisons into the ground and theyll become effectively useless.

10/10

rotaugen454

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Oh theyre well aware of what theyre doing. The only thing this update has for PvPers really is the poisons. And theyre looking to make every penny they can from this DLC. So how do you convince PvPers to get the DB DLC? You introduce a purposely overpowered mechanic to the game.

Once they feel theyve milked the Dark Brotherhood Cow for every drop of milk they can squeeze out of it. Theyll nerf the poisons into the ground and theyll become effectively useless.

Are poisons ONLY available to people with DB DLC or is it base game?

Sheezabeast

Do they even test these changes themselves before they make them????????

Surely they must consider how to counter something....

Or not.

NBrookus

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Oh theyre well aware of what theyre doing. The only thing this update has for PvPers really is the poisons. And theyre looking to make every penny they can from this DLC. So how do you convince PvPers to get the DB DLC? You introduce a purposely overpowered mechanic to the game.

Once they feel theyve milked the Dark Brotherhood Cow for every drop of milk they can squeeze out of it. Theyll nerf the poisons into the ground and theyll become effectively useless.

Are poisons ONLY available to people with DB DLC or is it base game?

It's in the base game.

C0wrex

Going to prepare the popcorn. Extra salty!

Korah_Eaglecry

rotaugen454 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Sunburnt_Penguin wrote: »

They have no idea wtf they're doing.

Oh theyre well aware of what theyre doing. The only thing this update has for PvPers really is the poisons. And theyre looking to make every penny they can from this DLC. So how do you convince PvPers to get the DB DLC? You introduce a purposely overpowered mechanic to the game.

Once they feel theyve milked the Dark Brotherhood Cow for every drop of milk they can squeeze out of it. Theyll nerf the poisons into the ground and theyll become effectively useless.

Are poisons ONLY available to people with DB DLC or is it base game?

Im assuming they arent. But thats the kicker. Not everyone is going to be aware of it if theyre part of the base patch. And many will buy it up assuming theyre gaining access to a powerful mechanic. And these are the people ZOS is targeting with these changes. Those who arent fully informed. Only informed enough to drop some cash the first sign of a means to get an up in the game on others. Cant risk being left behind...Better get that new DLC.

arkansas_ESO

Anybody else wish they'd just scrap poisons in general? I'll admit, when I heard about it I was kinda excited, but now that I've seen what they look like, I feel like they'll only be a detriment to PVP and yet another consumable to keep up with in PVE.

khele23eb17_ESO

I don't really pvp a lot (in fact I don't at all) but this seems absurd. If this was an old school MMO they could make it a skill with a 2 min cooldown. That would be balanced somewhat.

Genomic

Antidote potions incoming to the Crown Store...

LinearParadox

Okay, first of all I'm going to be the jerk and say this straight out... everyone here claiming, or that has claimed, that this 'poison imbalance' is a way to milk the playerbase, force DLC involvement/purchase, etc, is a MORON. It's in the BASE GAME PATCH DUMMY. You have to buy LITERALLY NOTHING to use poisons. Jeeeeez -.-

That being said, I do agree that the cost Scaling is nuts. 30% was PLENTY, maybe even already more then enough, 60% is bonkers. I would've just made the poisons dock their resources pools directly for maybe 1K or so on proc, but the cost increase gave an interesting counter-play option with giving you the option to try to wait out the poison window, it's only about 3 seconds last I checked, but 60% is HUGE.
Also, it's a little janky because 60% of a skill you have min-mixed cost reduction on (light/med armor, champ points, etc) isn't that big a deal but say you go to use a 'full price' skill from your other pool like a Stam DK casting their armor buff... that's about 4K flat and the average Stam DK has about what... 10K Magicka total? With crap regen most likely... then BOOM 6K magicka gone in one cast. Isn't that a little extreme?

I'm putting in my vote to put them back to 30%, and these were the poisons I'd planned on using myself!

Samphaa

Stupid idea, poisons will ruin pvp and make it impossible for even the most skilled player to fight competitively against more than 2 people when they're stacking debuffs.

SlayerTheDragon

I will reserve my judgement.

I think adding a bit more dynamic to PVP is always a good idea.

Brrrofski

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I don't get what you are complaining about. You can use them yourself as well, it's not like your abilities now magically cost 60% more in pvp without you being able to do something to counter it.

Because some people play in small groups or solo - either way they're usually outnumbered. Good luck doing that with poisons.

Also, it either becomes a money game or you have to spend a lot of time farming mats just to be competitive. Not a lot of players idea of fun.

BRogueNZ

nice.. healing debuff and draining laced arrows.. if that's how poisons are intended to work

not that I pvp much anymore, soon as the proxy bombs start appearing I go do something entertaining

clocksstoppe

Brrrofski wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

I don't get what you are complaining about. You can use them yourself as well, it's not like your abilities now magically cost 60% more in pvp without you being able to do something to counter it.

Because some people play in small groups or solo - either way they're usually outnumbered. Good luck doing that with poisons.

Also, it either becomes a money game or you have to spend a lot of time farming mats just to be competitive. Not a lot of players idea of fun.

You have to do that anyways to be competitive. Are you going to complain now that you have to use armor and food to stay competitive or what?

RazielSR

You know...ME AND OTHERS WERE THE MAD HERE: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262756/poison-making-cant-go-live-the-way-they-work-now/p1

Can I laugh a bit more now?Or cry?

The same mistakes over and over again. They go in the right direction with some decisions...and suddenly the same pattern again. Same old mistakes with other names.

Embarassing.

Some people in this community is as special as giving 34 awesomes to a person saying it was all stupid panic in the topic I wrote up there.

Sad but true.

Mayrael

LinearParadox wrote: »

Okay, first of all I'm going to be the jerk and say this straight out... everyone here claiming, or that has claimed, that this 'poison imbalance' is a way to milk the playerbase, force DLC involvement/purchase, etc, is a MORON. It's in the BASE GAME PATCH DUMMY. You have to buy LITERALLY NOTHING to use poisons. Jeeeeez -.-

Yup the mechanics is in the base game patch but ingredients for stronger poisons will be aviable only in DLC. Why they are announcing that poisons will be stronger? Because we have already claimed that 30% poisons are to strong, so now they tell us that they will make them even stronger and when it will go live they will just drop it again to 30% and we will be so happy with them oh wait... Didnt we thought earlier that 30% is to much? Nah...

Thornen

RazielSR wrote: »

You know...ME AND OTHERS WERE THE MAD HERE: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262756/poison-making-cant-go-live-the-way-they-work-now/p1

Can I laugh a bit more now?Or cry?

The same mistakes over and over again. They go in the right direction with some decisions...and suddenly the same pattern again. Same old mistakes with other names.

Embarassing.

Some people in this community is as special as giving 34 awesomes to a person saying it was all stupid panic in the topic I wrote up there.

Sad but true.

Because the same people are in charge of making the same decisions. If there's never any consequences to ones actions then there is no reason to change them.

RazielSR

Thornen wrote: »

RazielSR wrote: »

You know...ME AND OTHERS WERE THE MAD HERE: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262756/poison-making-cant-go-live-the-way-they-work-now/p1

Can I laugh a bit more now?Or cry?

The same mistakes over and over again. They go in the right direction with some decisions...and suddenly the same pattern again. Same old mistakes with other names.

Embarassing.

Some people in this community is as special as giving 34 awesomes to a person saying it was all stupid panic in the topic I wrote up there.

Sad but true.

Because the same people are in charge of making the same decisions. If there's never any consequences to ones actions then there is no reason to change them.

I agree,I guess when some of the original ESO creators left,was because of something.

Thing is that maybe they are laughing a lot while reading the feedback.

Sunburnt_Penguin

Edited to remove quoted comment that was removed.

I haven't played on PTS but I'm struggling to see any sustainable ways to counter the 60% increase:
1. There's no consumable antidote
2. If Purge removes them I don't see how that's sustainable without a poison cool down as if you're a Stamina build, 50% of your pool (~4.5k cost) has already gone purging the first one, whereas if you're a Magicka build it's ~20% (assuming they've increased the cost of it)
3. They will be used primarily by Archers and it's extremely difficult to dodge/see any projectile coming that isn't Snipe. So it will require constant dodge rolling and Shuffling when you see Archers at the back of a group in order to evade their spamming of attacks. That then leaves you weak against melee builds in which I'm guessing a lesser amount of whom will also be running poisons.

The only build which I can see that has any possible chance of countering the 60% increase is 2H & Bow Stamina NBs, and that is only after recognising the cost increase (not sure if there's any visuals or not) and then cloaking away for the remaining duration. A DWing Stamina NB could well get mistaken for a Magicka NB, get hit with a Magicka poison and now his/her main utility abilities (Mass Hysteria, Siphoning Attacks, Relentless Focus, Cloak etc) are all far too expensive to use during combat.

olsborg

I even tought 30% would be a bit excessive, 60% will just make this a comedy...

Tryxus

Edited to remove quoted content that was removed.

I haven't played on PTS but I'm struggling to see any sustainable ways to counter the 60% increase:
1. There's no consumable antidote
2. If Purge removes them I don't see how that's sustainable without a poison cool down as if you're a Stamina build, 50% of your pool (~4.5k cost) has already gone purging the first one, whereas if you're a Magicka build it's ~20% (assuming they've increased the cost of it)
3. They will be used primarily by Archers and it's extremely difficult to dodge/see any projectile coming that isn't Snipe. So it will require constant dodge rolling and Shuffling when you see Archers at the back of a group in order to evade their spamming of attacks. That then leaves you weak against melee builds in which I'm guessing a lesser amount of whom will also be running poisons.

The only build which I can see that has any possible chance of countering the 60% increase is 2H & Bow Stamina NBs, and that is only after recognising the cost increase (not sure if there's any visuals or not) and then cloaking away for the remaining duration. A DWing Stamina NB could well get mistaken for a Magicka NB, get hit with a Magicka poison and now his/her main utility abilities (Mass Hysteria, Siphoning Attacks, Relentless Focus, Cloak etc) are all far too expensive to use during combat.

I don't play PTS either, but I believe every stealth build will benefit from the poisons:

- NB can use Cloak to sneak up, apply the poison and give themselves a huge benefit with the 60% increase. Which is prob why ZOS reduced the damage on some of their attacks alrdy
- Bow builds (all classes) can indeed apply the poison from afar and from stealth too

But like I said: this could be a test from ZOS to see just how powerful the poisons should be. It's an all new game mechanic, so they're prob tweaking and testing it. Ofc, they could just be out of their minds...

Guess we can only wait and see