NB the going to the OP stage.

MoeCoastie

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I don't disagree that NB can do serious damage. But in real world play, high spec'd templar builds chew NBs up in PvP. Many times best bet for the NB is to run from the templar it cannot kill. In my opinion templars have been monsters for quite a while.

Also I have observed that what people call "the best NB" in pvp are either players that have a very very narrow play style of heavy cloak and ganking (which isn't a fight in my opinion). Or a NB that is high sustain and just makes you run around a lot until you burn out then attacks. Besides some form of ganking, whether it be to start a fight, or maybe even during a fight, toe to toe a NB can't deliver the damage and at such a high rate and volume like a templar can.

Im no expert but I agree with a lot of obsevations made in this post.

americansteel

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I don't disagree that NB can do serious damage. But in real world play, high spec'd templar builds chew NBs up in PvP. Many times best bet for the NB is to run from the templar it cannot kill. In my opinion templars have been monsters for quite a while.

Also I have observed that what people call "the best NB" in pvp are either players that have a very very narrow play style of heavy cloak and ganking (which isn't a fight in my opinion). Or a NB that is high sustain and just makes you run around a lot until you burn out then attacks. Besides some form of ganking, whether it be to start a fight, or maybe even during a fight, toe to toe a NB can't deliver the damage and at such a high rate and volume like a templar can.

night blades have no problems bursting down a templar. and do so regurally with not much trouble peopl have made NB very cheesy. and yes they are very OP bad NBs are easy to kill. a decent NB can wreck a templar.

ElliottXO

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

I'm going to say it again... Buffing the other classes is the solution, not nerfing nightblade.

Are you seriously not realizing how stupid that statement is? *rolleyes*

He's actually right

Yep. Let's keep buffing all classes because of some childish attitude towards the word 'nerf'. Sometimes I think this word leads to half of the nerd rage in mmo communities.

When the community is the ones approaching NBs with the childish "nerf" claims every other month. Yeah, it gets old real fast. Especially when the community cant differentiate between Stamina and Magicka NBs, when they cant figure out why their PvE build is not effectual in PvP, when they seem to blame every new meta on the class when everyone is out using it, when they cant seem to look at the other classes and ask the needed questions of what could be going wrong here that needs to be changed to better compete in Cyrodiil?

Half of the people that create these threads cant even form a criticism that isnt based entirely on nonsense. Let alone bring a functional argument to the table for people to sit down and really mull over. But its the people that are tired of this being the status quo on the forums that are being childish. Its totally not the incoherent OP and those rallying behind his stunted argument that are nerd raging.

I am not making any statement about balance. But if somebody posts 'don't nerf NB, buff all the other classes instead' I find it mildly dumb. It's nothing but a nerf that is more complicated to achieve.

It's like not telling the fat kid to lose weight but telling the 3 other kids to eat more, under the premise that the other 3 kids have somewhat normal weight.

You gotta tell the fat kid the truth man. It's the obvious.

Publius_Scipio

americansteel wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I don't disagree that NB can do serious damage. But in real world play, high spec'd templar builds chew NBs up in PvP. Many times best bet for the NB is to run from the templar it cannot kill. In my opinion templars have been monsters for quite a while.

Also I have observed that what people call "the best NB" in pvp are either players that have a very very narrow play style of heavy cloak and ganking (which isn't a fight in my opinion). Or a NB that is high sustain and just makes you run around a lot until you burn out then attacks. Besides some form of ganking, whether it be to start a fight, or maybe even during a fight, toe to toe a NB can't deliver the damage and at such a high rate and volume like a templar can.

night blades have no problems bursting down a templar. and do so regurally with not much trouble peopl have made NB very cheesy. and yes they are very OP bad NBs are easy to kill. a decent NB can wreck a templar.

Yes, but I don't see high spec'd NB bursting down high spec'd templars in the hands of players of equivalent experience. Unless the NB gets the jump on the templar, I see the templar healing through the NB's initial damage, breaking cc, and then the templar bursting down the NB. NB will be looking to escape.

NB can hit hard initially. But they don't have the DPS barrage templars unleash. Plus templars pop those heals and they pretty much shrug off any incoming damage.

lathbury

has the OP stated which heal he's on about yet?

lathbury

crowfl56 wrote: »

Every MMO I have played except one ( EQ ) the NB type of class has always attracted, what I would call, the less than fair player.

Now, ever since game launch I have seen the NB go from a very weak class to a extremely OP class.

Why does ZOS continue to add bonus's ( a major heal )to a class that shouldn't be super strong.

A NB should die easily, but should kick your butt if you aren't ready and fast.

But no, a NB, with the right gear and player running it, can almost, not die. << that is totally stupid.

In pvp you have constant (griefer's) and I don't mean ganker's and you all know what I mean.

The only people that will feel all butt hurt will be just those people.

To see exactly just how many people now play only a NB, go to any city with a large pop of player's and watch.

Almost every player you see are fixing or rather tieing on a set of gloves, (ie they are wearing leather) for the stam regen, thus again in most cases they are a NB.

So in any game when u see a large portion of the players switching to a certain class, THERE IS A PROBLEM. The problem being the overbuild by ZOS, for

whatever reason the NB.

Thus I say, GL in pvp to all not a NB, and gratz to the awesome dps the NB has for dungeons.

Plus to ZOS, quit listening to your Hard Core players so much and jump to nerf or add abilities to certain class's, because of them constantly whinneing.

stamblade which I guess your referring to has no native heal. also gratz to your amazing dungeon dps just lol stamblade is fairly middle of the table highest dps is stam dk

FearlessOne_2014

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

Those are all things suggested for the average player to make things easier on them due to the number of nightblades afoot atm. Also as I said most of what I previously suggested works against all dpps. Aswell If you aren't running in a group you aren't really tyna do much in cyrodil. Most of you run in small groups of 3 and follow the zzerg. Which means you are in an unorganized large group.

If your group is small and you are having small battles then you don't need multiple healers, but they better be a good one.

If you are fighting 1v1 magelight, lingering flare or aoes all will ieep them out of stealth.


You ask what other class needs all that to beat them, i ask which other class do you have that many options? Where's the field of no healing button? Wheres the no shield light button? The truth is, all of the classes take alot to beat them if you fight anyone who is good at their class. I have seen players make every class appear untouchable to the average player.

You just complain about nightblades most because there are so many. And there are so many because of band wagon jumpers.

You want to fight the world with your 3 man group, experience the difficulties of getting wrecked.

Thanks to 2 weeks now on the PTS. I now will consider myself a bandwagon jumper. However am I really to blame after my favorite RPG archtype gets hit with yet around round of nukes? To the point I might add that I'd shelved them to just be crafters.

Me and many other people have actually embrace the special drinks ZOS has forced fed us. In effect of that many of us are displaced and have to find other playstyles to use for the first time since the 2014 launch.

BTW no one should complain about Nightblades with the state that DKs are in now and they are even going to be getting a even bigger DPS buff. Lol. Got my Stamblade to lvl 45 now after it hits V1 I'll be turning my attention on leveling the monster that I have on the PTS on the live server. Which is my Stam DK, it's funny people are lobbying for NB nerfs already when Stamina DKs are far worst IMO from what I've experienced on the PTS yesterday.

But w/e I guess this is going to be "THAT GAME" that I'll have to get good at all playstyles because ZOS loves to drop nukes on classes. But fear not I'll adapt and overcome, and so shall you.

Don't be lazy and cry wolf. Put some time and effort and learn how to counter or play other playstyles, so instead of you being the pray, you'll be the hunter.

Lava_Croft

I think OP meant Stamina Dragon Knight, not Nightblade.

Bonzodog01

When ZOS designed this game, they looked at the competition, and realised that one of their many failures was probably attributed to narrow classes, poor design, and everyone still following the D&D Holy Trinity.

So, ZOS set out on a new, untested path - lets break the Holy Trinity, and break the Min/Max Paradigm.

At first their initial designs on this looked promising, but it seems the playerbase, for some reason, could simply not accept that you can play an RPG game without that Holy Trinity.

So, the whining and complaining set in. Add to which, some staff changes happened developer side, and the staff brought in decided to do as the playerbase asked.

However, there are still many, many elements of the initial design ideas left in game. The main idea behind the design of classes was "anyone can be anything". Why bend to the Holy Trinity?

Screw everyone that came before, lets make it so any class can do everything. They can DPS, they can heal, and they can tank. All at the same time!.


........and you know what?


There are many, many people out there that came to appreciate this brave new approach to MMO design. I personally applaud them for doing so.

As I have stated in a previous thread, I personally think they didn't go far enough. They could have defeated the min/max paradigm entirely with one more brave manoeuvre - make the health/magicka/stamina racial passives a choice regardless of which race you choose, so the fixed racial passives are not that important.

clayandaudrey_ESO

I think so too but his auto correct saw the website and the word nerf and changed dragonknight to nightblade. Damn you auto correct.

Xandryah

i won't use my right of liberty of speech, to ensure not to get banned (wow! a lot of text has come about nontheless

my suggestions :

- global cooldown
- introduce the random-damage-generator = to avoid extreme dmg-output (e.g. dmg between 1000-1500; plus critical chance) and also allow luck decide the fate of a fight; i am not a believer of skill at this current state of the game; it's better than 2014..
- make character spreadsheet more clear; the whole thing is just not trustworthy; i don't get it how Deltia gets his stamina NB with 4000 weapon damage on the PTS, when i can't have 4000-weapon damage stamina NB on the PTS too( i only manage to get some 2750 ), which should be the case, right? on the PTS we are all alike....i have severe problems in trusting the whole thing... also with the random-loot-generator that penalizes a lot players after long efforts to get sth... also the patch notes sometimes refer to bug that affect only certain players...
- use of percentages instead of flat numbers
- introduce stamina/magicka recovery minimum for all players > don't make it dependable on gear, but on CP and passives
- introduce the necessity to choose between certain passives only; > you can't have it all (again)> this again to limit the builds
- limit the use of weapons to certain roles > foster the necessity to commit to a very definite role : dps/tank/healer ( you can't have it all)
- lower overall dmg output of all skills again, now it's 50%> make execute-skills be the measure of how dmg should be handled; question: why killers-blade a 25%-execute while executioner a 50%-executioner; jesus-beam > idk, last time i got executed a 90% hp... (months ago);
- lower critical chance drastically, but still giving the option to increase critical chance to very high levels (player must choose between critical chance and power output or penetrations) you can't have it all
- aoe-dmg shall never lead to a kill in 1v1 , whatever the cp-points
- homogenize certain skills across classes > make limited builds for all (more limited dps/healers/tanks) > improves quality of life of players and developers
- give every morph a magicka and stamina option
- introduce non-dmg-skills
- introduce 1 or 2 non-stamina-weapons
- 2/3 second kills still possible but require a very definite plan of attack from stealth and can't be done as reaction-counter-attack or just spontanously spamming some random skills, relying only on CP-budget and/or gear
- say farewell to "play as you want"
- official UI with all possible info and customization (swtor)
- make gear accessible in reasonable real life time of playing
- make dailies/weeklies rewarding , XP-wise and token-wise, currency-wise
- the whole game must be much more rewarding; right now one 15-minutes-quest rewards for maybe 3 mm of a level-bar... do you understand? it's still better than 2014, but it's not good at all.... i think a player should complete a level-bar with 3 to 4 quests of 15 minutes each (more or less) > that's about 35-40 hours to level up a toon in a pleasant way (= doing random quests across Tamriel spontanously and exploring)

all these changes would make a lot of players angry or quit the game... but honestly this combat system is against the traditional character of Elder Scrolls (franchise), that has always been a rather peaceful, relaxed game about exploring and some fighting too. Right now, i can't help myself to compare this combat system to a 2-D-space shooter, where every seconds matters and every mistake or hesitation is unforgiving and leads unevitably to death. It's not a healthy learning system. The brain likes to be fed with successes and not with 2-3-seconds-failures

I don't want to make names, but who is this game made for? for young people only (18-25 years) or for other players too? in swtor i discovered that many players are 30 or more years old, have kids/wives/jobs etc...i believe this is the case here too; developers are not the very youngest either...

i think the game should be made for the majority, but would ensure that the game is more accesssible , learnable and fun in the end for more players... and not a toil to uncertainty... certain rules must be clear, every game has clear rules... it's also thank to the rules that a game is fun... it will always be a sandbox... don't you fear...; i think improvements have been implemented too hesitatingly and scarcely..

i wanted to write a few other things, but i have fogotten..

anyways, a game must be fun and you should find it fast in a MMO; you should sensibly feel your learning curve go up to never come down (hard) again and feel your personal success

Xandryah

something i forgotten and very important in my honest opinion are:

CAPS (which were once active, when the game launched)

this is very important for players , for a orientation of where they are

Xandryah

also: healing skills generates lower numbers than damaging skills

Lava_Croft

See the little cog icon in the top right of your post? Click it to reveal the 'Edit' option.

Xandryah

please introduce a few more targeting options

i would love to see a lock-on-targeting-system (swtor)

where you can focus on positioning (only) and on rotating and not on targeting constantly or worrying about losing your target

this really would a quality of life improvement and also very very important

those who alway are against improvements should be given the option to toggle on/off EVERY IMPROVEMENT

Xandryah

that's all folks...i think... thank you

clayandaudrey_ESO

To a lot of people that is not an improvement. You can already tab target in this game but unlike swtor you can't just hit it no matter what because it is locked. The combat in this game is great. We don't need that kind of "improvement"

frethopper

Not the first time I've seen ESO compared to WOW, as in change this and it'll just turn into a WOW clone. I respect your opinion guys, I have to because I've never played WOW. But to be honest I don't really care if it is like WOW. I just want ZOS to do whatever makes THIS game better. It's a pretty crowded market anyway, nobody can possibly maintain a completely unique experience.

As to Nightblades. Well if you tell me they aren't overpowered then I'll absolutely believe you, so long as you give me a credible alternative explanation of why every other player I run into these days is playing a Nightblade ;-)

Xandryah

I like NB because of the invsibilty... and cuz as vegetarian playing a merciless predator is sth to new to xp virtually

FearlessOne_2014

Xandryah wrote: »

please introduce a few more targeting options

i would love to see a lock-on-targeting-system (swtor)

where you can focus on positioning (only) and on rotating and not on targeting constantly or worrying about losing your target

this really would a quality of life improvement and also very very important

those who alway are against improvements should be given the option to toggle on/off EVERY IMPROVEMENT

NO JUST NO! This is the for most main reason I play ESO is because of the Action Combat/Targeting system. If you want SWTOR lock on targeting system then go play that. I've say all I needed to say about you opinion on the targeting system.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

EsoRecon wrote: »

I'm going to say it again... Buffing the other classes is the solution, not nerfing nightblade.

Hahahahahah, great joke. XD

What, you were not kidding?
Seriously?
Wow...

Already half the forum is about the lack of challenge content wise, and you want to BUFF the rest up still?
Please be so kind to explain the logic in there?

As I! see it, a nerf would rather be suitable for both goals: being this: more challence content wise, AND the NB being balanced!
But seems I got THAT dead wrong.

Awaiting elaboration, EsoRec.

Thank you.

susmitds

Brrrofski wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Both stamina and magicka build will have a version of mage light in the DB update.

This means that Cloak will be very easy to counter just by popping Mage Light or Evil Hunter.

Without Cloak most NBs tend to die pretty fast.

Yep.

They don't have rally, vigor, shuffle, dodge roll or fear to help them survive. Definitely dead without cloak.

Last I checked everybody had those.

Kungfu

The game is in a better place now than it has been since launch.

If ANY of you really think NB needs a nerf, I challenge you to find the skill(s) or combo that other players here cannot already counter on at least two of the other classes.

FearlessOne_2014

All the while StamDK is slipping through the cracks. And that was with a CP300 template on the PTS so imagine with my CPs, yeah GG fokes.

MichYodias

You have to remember that the NB class has to fulfill 3-4 different archetypes within the class. Not everyone is playing a Stamblade to gank. NBs are also life steal tanks (blood DK from wow) and life stealing mage (warlock/shadow priest from wow). Should a NB tank's passives be nerfed bc people are afraid of Stamblades? All this talk is going to result in DK 2.0 and NB will lose different playstyles in an attempt to nerf one.

The real solution here is to add another class or a 4th skill line to each class.

Kungfu

MichYodias wrote: »

You have to remember that the NB class has to fulfill 3-4 different archetypes within the class. Not everyone is playing a Stamblade to gank. NBs are also life steal tanks (blood DK from wow) and life stealing mage (warlock/shadow priest from wow). Should a NB tank's passives be nerfed bc people are afraid of Stamblades? All this talk is going to result in DK 2.0 and NB will lose different playstyles in an attempt to nerf one.

The real solution here is to add another class or a 4th skill line to each class.

And archers
And some love to play as healers
And all kinds of support class hybrids that used to exist... the off-heal dps is still pretty strong for certain content, I suppose.

khele23eb17_ESO

Tryxus wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

The classes SHOULD have defined roles and if they play outside of that then they should be weaker.

Completely agree with you on this: a class should be there to give us a job, a defined task, to give to the player.

Currently, ZOS is throwing this out the window by making all classes capable of doing everything: tanking, healing and DPS. Remember how Breath of Life got nerfed and both Sorcs and DKs got more healing capabilities? And now there's talk of reducing the damage of Surprise Attack/Concealed Weapon, which makes me believe ZOS is trying to give every class stealth capabilities.

This is bad design choice IMO.

Valrien wrote: »

Nightblade = Stamina DPS (Rogue, Assassin, Specialist)

Well technically, Nightblades are actually mages who use their magic for covert missions and stealth. They're more wizards than assassins, though they do the same job.

Technically ESO NBs are not ES lore NBs. Read their description on the character creation screen.

americansteel

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I don't disagree that NB can do serious damage. But in real world play, high spec'd templar builds chew NBs up in PvP. Many times best bet for the NB is to run from the templar it cannot kill. In my opinion templars have been monsters for quite a while.

Also I have observed that what people call "the best NB" in pvp are either players that have a very very narrow play style of heavy cloak and ganking (which isn't a fight in my opinion). Or a NB that is high sustain and just makes you run around a lot until you burn out then attacks. Besides some form of ganking, whether it be to start a fight, or maybe even during a fight, toe to toe a NB can't deliver the damage and at such a high rate and volume like a templar can.

night blades have no problems bursting down a templar. and do so regurally with not much trouble peopl have made NB very cheesy. and yes they are very OP bad NBs are easy to kill. a decent NB can wreck a templar.

Yes, but I don't see high spec'd NB bursting down high spec'd templars in the hands of players of equivalent experience. Unless the NB gets the jump on the templar, I see the templar healing through the NB's initial damage, breaking cc, and then the templar bursting down the NB. NB will be looking to escape.

NB can hit hard initially. But they don't have the DPS barrage templars unleash. Plus templars pop those heals and they pretty much shrug off any incoming damage.

nope wont agree with this seen too many high specd classes destroy a templar except magDK. DPS greater than what a templar gives and heall all yiu want a night blade will go right through the breath of life.

Xandryah

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Xandryah wrote: »

please introduce a few more targeting options

i would love to see a lock-on-targeting-system (swtor)

where you can focus on positioning (only) and on rotating and not on targeting constantly or worrying about losing your target

this really would a quality of life improvement and also very very important

those who alway are against improvements should be given the option to toggle on/off EVERY IMPROVEMENT

NO JUST NO! This is the for most main reason I play ESO is because of the Action Combat/Targeting system. If you want SWTOR lock on targeting system then go play that. I've say all I needed to say about you opinion on the targeting system.

well, now with the nameplates in striking colors, it's a bit improved, but not good enough imo.. maybe one or two addons will make it complete..

If you could toggle on/off a lock-on-targeting-system (> choose your favorite targeting-system), would you still play ESO?

Thanks for the reply though, i appreciate it

most people seem to discuss within the circle of closed club only...

henrycupcakerwb17_ESO

Mr.Hmm wrote: »

I am just being a filthy Templar healer in pvp and heal everyone even my own ass without a care about those people who are poking me on the ass.

TLDR:

I Ignore these NB and continue healing, it makes them feel bad and most of the times they leave me be while the rest of the times they get pissed off and start going nuts trying to kill me.

care to elaborate how a fully slotted healing templar be able to stand against NB endless cc and stab attack?
i have been playing in cyrodiil since level 10 and leveled my toon to v1 solely in cyrodiil and never stand a chance to their sneak attack or people slashing at me

normally i slotted all restoration skills + Llight amor magic shield

when i got sneak attacked i put up ward + magic shield and keep mashing honour the dead hoping to heal it through but normally i am dead before someone can help me, i just wanted to stay alive lol