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The Culture of ESO Exploitation and why it ruins the game

Rylana
Rylana
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You have all heard of one or more, the game was born with an exploit (the dupe exploit). They have become so ingrained into the very culture of the gaming community, that we wouldnt recognize an ESO without them, at this point. Worse than that, however, is how Zenimax has approached dealing with them. From the beginning cheating/exploiting/abuse of broken mechanics has basically defined the meta of this game, from using the broken trap skill in undaunted to farm VWGT, to standing in caltrops on a breach for immunity to siege, to everyone adopting wall of elements or shuffle, to just name it, its out there, and everyone uses it with impunity.

Why? Because of ZOS's track record dealing with the guilty. The moderators of these forums do a pretty bang up job of making sure youre following ToS or youre out of here quicker than you can blink an eye, I should know, ive been sanctioned before. They do not play.

So why in game is moderation so ineffectual? Ive known people to blatantly exploit and cheat for YEARS on end, without so much as a whisper happening to them. Ive spoken to them in-game, some dont even know the community thinks they are doing so at times. God forbid anyone mentions their names though, because you will get hammered fast.

Why arent the in game GMs as authoritarian as our forum mods? I know over 20 people that probably should have been game banned 2 years ago, still here, still exploiting whatever they can find. I also know 20 people that have been forum banned for doing nothing other than protest the ones ruining the game itself.

Today on the forums we have a new firestorm of in game mismanagement of an exploit. This time, action was taken, granted slap on the wrist, but the fallout is an unthinkable RETENTION OF THE EXPLOITED SPOILS. What? So basically the message sent is more of the same: "Exploit early, exploit often, we dont care lulz, just dont say bad things about it on social media or you will suffer the wrath of 1000 banhammers"

Zenimax, you need to clean your act up. Seriously. its damn disgraceful to watch, knowing full well anything I even post on these forums at this point could get me arbiitrarily banned for a plethora of reasons. I literally fear posting sometimes because I know I am being watched, heavily. But why arent the people IN GAME DOING WAY MORE DAMAGE THAN I EVER COULD able to go about their business as if they had not a care in the world? Exploiting glaring issues and bugs with 100 percent impunity, day in, day out, find the next one, abuse that too.

I got an idea, swap your forum mods and in game GMs. Police the game the way you police the forums. Most of the problems resolve immediately. That or just adopt a zero tolerance policy for this behavior, make a few examples, and scare the living hell out of anyone enough they dont dare abuse things or think to exploit. You know, like I have to do here on the forums, live in perpetual fear of a ban. Thats how an exploiter in game should fear.

its pretty simple really.

@ZoS_GinaBruno @ZOS_MattFiror

Inb4 "wont discuss actions" im not asking anyone to discuss actions, i want to see actions. Just DO IT.

The first thing you should do is delete all of the accumulated mats the exploiters gained unfairly, I mean that just makes sense. Jail a guy for counterfeiting, but leave piles of counterfeit money laying around, seems legit.
Edited by Rylana on May 3, 2016 11:10PM
@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin
  • Maotti
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    I agree. Everyone can do as they please in game. And this forum is one of the worst i've ever been to when it comes to dictatorship from the mods.
    PC EU
  • OGLezard
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    100% this...I have sent videos of people CLEARLY exploiting and all I got was "we will look into it" and here we are a year later from me sending those videos and those same people are here doing the same exploits.....yet I call zos out and I got banned on forums multiple times. Enough is enough
  • Mojmir
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    ive seen biased from both of them, doesnt suprise me.
  • clayandaudrey_ESO
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    Forum moderation will probably come quick to this. Which of course will prove your point. If they were as strict in game as they are on the forums things wouldn't be as out of control as they are.
  • Rylana
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    Forum moderation will probably come quick to this. Which of course will prove your point. If they were as strict in game as they are on the forums things wouldn't be as out of control as they are.

    I have not named anybody, I have not shamed anybody, I have not spammed, posted curse words or internet memes, I have done nothing but provide very pointed and polite albeit firm and passionate feedback about a red button issue.

    But yes, I am terrified ill get the hammer for this thread nonetheless. I am not even casting ESO itself in a negative light, just business practices.
    Edited by Rylana on May 3, 2016 11:34PM
    @rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
    Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
    Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
    Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
    Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin
  • FortheloveofKrist
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    Maotti_Nor wrote: »
    I agree. Everyone can do as they please in game. And this forum is one of the worst i've ever been to when it comes to dictatorship from the mods.

    Perhaps you should go live for a couple years in a county that's an actual dictatorship, and then come back and share with us your insights on why that's such a poor analogy.

  • Steel_Brightblade
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    In game GMs? You realise at least on console those are myths right? Only time I've seen them on xbox is on the loading screen that says a GM will have this logo, but I have never seen nor know of anybody that have seen one.
  • Zorrashi
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    I'm all for more strict punishments for exploiters. Preferably players that exploit super often.
  • Maotti
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    Maotti_Nor wrote: »
    I agree. Everyone can do as they please in game. And this forum is one of the worst i've ever been to when it comes to dictatorship from the mods.

    Perhaps you should go live for a couple years in a county that's an actual dictatorship, and then come back and share with us your insights on why that's such a poor analogy.

    Even Bethesda forums got an offtopic section. Where is it here?
    PC EU
  • Mojmir
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    whenever you get into trouble.just say your "in-character"
  • clayandaudrey_ESO
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    Rylana wrote: »
    Forum moderation will probably come quick to this. Which of course will prove your point. If they were as strict in game as they are on the forums things wouldn't be as out of control as they are.

    I have not named anybody, I have not shamed anybody, I have no spammed, posted curse words or internet memes, I have done nothing but provide very pointed and polite albeit firm and passionate feedback about a red button issue.

    But yes, I am terrified ill get the hammer for this thread nonetheless. I am not even casting ESO itself in a negative light, just business practices.

    You would be surprised what will get you muted. But on the other hand, if warnings were dollars I'd be rich.
  • daemonios
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    Agreed on the principle, but I do think there's often a grey area between an exploit and a simple bug.

    The survey thing was clearly and undoubtedly an exploit. You needed to take specific steps to do it. I'm less convinced about certain skills. Some might be considered exploits, but where do you draw the line between a simple overpowered skill and an exploit? Another example: a little over a year ago one faction repeatedly flipped 30-day campaigns in a few days by profiting from the underdog bonus system, i.e. as soon as the bonus kicked in, they would swarm the map, cap every resource and keep and get the kinds of ticks you would never get playing normally, some 2x to 3x higher than full map ownership with no bonus. I and many others considered it an exploit, and I quit PvP over this, but others thought of it as intelligent play and ZOS didn't lift a finger.

    IMHO these issues should be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, ZOS should broadly advertise if and when something is considered an exploit, and it should take actual measures if a player keeps abusing exploits.

    TL;DR: ZOS, do something. Advertise exploits, punish exploiters, publish statistics on sanctions. Right now the game is lawless, everything is fair game.
  • sekou_trayvond
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    Dear lord.

    It's a game people.

    A GAME.

    They fixed the writ bug within two days. They're not miracle workers.

    No one stole your sweetroll.

    Play the game or don't but at least please stop the hyperbolic whining.



  • Mojmir
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    Dear lord.

    It's a game people.

    A GAME.

    They fixed the writ bug within two days. They're not miracle workers.

    No one stole your sweetroll.

    Play the game or don't but at least please stop the hyperbolic whining.



    so your saying you stole my sweetroll?
  • clayandaudrey_ESO
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    Yes I think so
  • OrangeTheCat
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    Policing the forums is way easier and takes fewer people than policing the game.

    ZOS has demonstrated time and time again that it prefers to take the quick and easy approach to any problem even if it later bites them in the you-know-what.
  • MasterSpatula
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    You know, it's possible to think ZOS failed to inflict serious enough consequences for cheaters AND to think that them not doing so doesn't "ruin" the game.
    Edited by MasterSpatula on May 3, 2016 11:30PM
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • Mojmir
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    The forums would be easier on the mods if they'd just open an off topic catergory.
  • Tryxus
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    The forums would be easier on the mods if they'd just open an off topic catergory.

    Yup, then the entire first page of this forum would be filled with "Exploit rants" and "Free stuff for Non-exploiters" threads
    "Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
    Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU
  • AriBoh
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    Fully agree. BS of the highest order. Exploit early exploit often should be on the box of this game.
    Edited by AriBoh on May 3, 2016 11:54PM
    khele23eb17
    Agreed. Whoever came up with the design should be shot in the foot and only admitted to hospital when he manages to find 3 other people willing to maim themselves the same way in order to accompany him.

    ZOS_AmeliaR admin
    Ultimately, any method of entering an enemy keep without breaking down the door is considered an exploit. Thanks for checking!

    tinythinker
    "I used to be a healer once, but then I took a Wrobel to the knee"
  • Asherons_Call
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    Unfortunately where there is gaming, there will be ways to exploit them. Definitely not just an ESO-specific problem.
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    I don't know why the game masters make some of the decisions they make and I feel like a heel trying to pretend otherwise . I imagine it's a difficult job knowing what was intentional and what wasn't .

    I would like to give a thanks though to the forum moderators . That's a rough job disciplining and keeping the boards legible and pleasant for the community and more often then not unpleasant without any thanks . Don't think some of us don't appreciate that work load because some of Us do .

    With the staff at ZOS , and other MMO titles out there , I'm guessing it's a mixture of how much damage was done , how much in staff resource time should be allocated , and final judgement from a game lead . Not everyone will like the decisions but it's their game title at the end of the day .
  • SirAndy
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    Rylana wrote: »
    I got an idea, swap your forum mods and in game GMs.
    They still have in-game moderators?
    confused24.gif

    I haven't seen one in 2 years ...
    dry.gif

    PS: If you get banned, can i haz your stuff?

    Edited by SirAndy on May 4, 2016 12:37AM
  • Manpoints
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    Would love to see a tightening of the rules or at the very least the acceptable behavior and punishment WRITTEN IN STONE so it creates the expectation of rule enforcement that does not and has not existed on this game for a VERY LONG TIME.

    @OrangeTheCat If you think the restrictions on these forums are tight, should check the quick draw post deletions on the Reddit, my god you say anything mildly negative BOOM, its gone in minutes.
    GM of Potato Syndicate, (Gone' Casual) ---- I'MZ A GOD!
    GM of Mi Amor Libre Spanish ERP ---- Shadilay
    Manpoints - Templar // Womanpoints - DK // Abopoints - NB // Manepoints - NB // Sexypoints - Sorc // Hermann Purring - DK // Browniepoints - Templar // Tigger SMB - Templar // Affirmative Actionpoints - DK // Sha Bipoints - Sorc // Hughe Mungus - DK // Rachel Dolezol - Warden??
  • Volkodav
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    Rylana wrote: »
    Forum moderation will probably come quick to this. Which of course will prove your point. If they were as strict in game as they are on the forums things wouldn't be as out of control as they are.

    I have not named anybody, I have not shamed anybody, I have not spammed, posted curse words or internet memes, I have done nothing but provide very pointed and polite albeit firm and passionate feedback about a red button issue.

    But yes, I am terrified ill get the hammer for this thread nonetheless. I am not even casting ESO itself in a negative light, just business practices.

    The reason they will close this and go after you is because we arent allowed to even mention what the Mods do.What actions they take.
    I know what I would relate it all to,but,sadly,I am not allowed to say the name.
  • dtm_samuraib16_ESO
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    I'm starting to almost believe they want them cheats to do just that.
    I mean, see the actions taken against these cheaters, hell, they could just as well go pub drink beer with them, sort of speaking.

    But hey, they DO have an excuse:
    The millions they make of us are not enough to buy a ban hammer.
    Earthdawn Game Master Role Play Quotes by me:
    "If it looks like a bear, if it feels like a bear, smells and tastes like a bear, then be VERY aware, it could be something ENTIRELY different..."
    "Be careful what you wish for, you might get plenty of it..."
  • daemonios
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    Volkodav wrote: »
    Rylana wrote: »
    Forum moderation will probably come quick to this. Which of course will prove your point. If they were as strict in game as they are on the forums things wouldn't be as out of control as they are.

    I have not named anybody, I have not shamed anybody, I have not spammed, posted curse words or internet memes, I have done nothing but provide very pointed and polite albeit firm and passionate feedback about a red button issue.

    But yes, I am terrified ill get the hammer for this thread nonetheless. I am not even casting ESO itself in a negative light, just business practices.

    The reason they will close this and go after you is because we arent allowed to even mention what the Mods do.What actions they take.
    I know what I would relate it all to,but,sadly,I am not allowed to say the name.

    That is false. Forum moderators have stated that disciplinary measures in general can be discussed. You just can't name alleged wrongdoers, or discuss/appeal specific measures in the forums.

    [EDIT for quote]
    ZOS_AlanG wrote: »
    It is OK to discuss the recent exploit generally, but if you or a friend were banned, please don't discuss that here. Per the forum rules, discussing specific disciplinary actions on the forums isn't permitted.
    Edited by daemonios on May 4, 2016 12:34PM
  • rootimus
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    Maotti_Nor wrote: »
    I agree. Everyone can do as they please in game. And this forum is one of the worst i've ever been to when it comes to dictatorship from the mods.

    Speaking as someone who's administered or moderated a number of fora over the years, their house, their rules. You can always set up your own forum.
    Even on the internet, clear communication is important; it can be the difference between "helping your Uncle Jack off a horse" and "helping your uncle jack off a horse"; the difference between "knowing your s***" and "knowing you're s***".
    Greybeards & Gals - Civilised, laid-back, mature gamers. Beards optional. |
  • Robbmrp
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    @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_RichLambert, @Wrobel

    I couldn't agree more with this OP. Nothing is generally done with these people that exploit your game. Daily they use these cheats and exploits that WEREN'T DESIGNED or fixed and what was done to them at most? A 3 day ban.... Do you really think they cared about that? They already made millions in gold off the exploit that you hot fixed. You didn't take anything of REAL value away from them. The appropriate thing to do would be to ROLL BACK their character to the point before they started exploiting or at least of when ZOS became aware it was an issue.

    Temporarily banning people from the game does NOTHING to stop this sort of behavior in the future. There should be DIRE CONSEQUENCES for people that are specifically using exploits in your game. How do you police this? By people reporting others using said exploits. Then your GM's should be researching this, VERIFYING that said exploit is being used. THEN Notifying said individual that THEY HAVE BEEN CAUGHT USING AN EXPLOIT AND TO STOP IMMEDIATELY OR REPERCUSSIONS WILL COME SWIFT AND HARSH. REMOVE ANYTHING THEY GAINED WHILE USING SAID EXPLOIT. Whether that be gold, materials or AP. If someone has spent 20 hours farming AP using an exploit/cheat that THEY KNOW IS WRONG, then that should be removed from them. That's a CLEAR CHOICE that person made to use said exploit.

    It's time that ZOS does something to end the use of Exploits/Cheats in the game. We love this game and are still here after two years. Making people ACCOUNTABLE for their actions will only make this a better game......
    NA Server - Kildair
  • KingMagaw
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    But let us be real, the exploit was an advertisement feature. It was going on for quite some time and ZoS didn't step in because it motivated people to buy a 50 dollar shite item that does dik for you. It can't be used anywhere useful because outside of cyrodil for siege storage who can't spend 146 gold (if they are feeling to lazy to ride a horse 3 mins) to teleport to a real bank.
    I am sure quite a bit of scratch was made and a 3 day ban is a faint attempt to save face with everyone else. Sadly this has always been the EsO motto. Exploit when an exploit exists cause you only get a slap on the wrists and keep all the ill gotten gains.

    Zeni won in long run, as the exploiters who told others, who bought the banker to do this. They make more money. Then band-aid fix the exploit after sososo long people exploiting.

    Only ones to lose out, are the actual players. Take this for a prime example and temp bans. Next exploit you think someone will see, do you think they have a higher chance of reporting it?, or abusing it?. GG
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