PvP Defense Help Request

Thrasher91604

I see a ton of threads on build advice, but very little on how to counter defensively (or offensively) each class and their typical builds.

I got wrecked multiple times by a DK last weekend, and had to figure out it was his reflective scales doing a number on my sorcerer. I was thinking he was a sorcerer with the crystal frags hits, but molten whip too?

What would be great is a 4x4 chart, with one dimension being the opponent's class, and the other being the player's class, with defensive recommendations in each slot that describe counters for each typical build (or offensive tactic).

Would be helpful for PvP newbs like me.

Solariken

A chart sounds nice in theory, but 4x4 certainly wouldn't be terribly helpful as it wouldn't provide nearly enough insight. 1v1 counterplay can be pretty complicated and nuanced.

In general if you want to shut down a magicka DK though, slot Purge to clear DoTs and a root/snare to keep the target at range. He might be a ninja with Reflective Scale, but it only lasts 4 seconds - with decent timing you should be able to pull out a combo like Curse - Streak stun - CFrag to the face - Endless Fury to put him down.

Lexxypwns

Solariken wrote: »

A chart sounds nice in theory, but 4x4 certainly wouldn't be terribly helpful as it wouldn't provide nearly enough insight. 1v1 counterplay can be pretty complicated and nuanced.

In general if you want to shut down a magicka DK though, slot Purge to clear DoTs and a root/snare to keep the target at range. He might be a ninja with Reflective Scale, but it only lasts 4 seconds - with decent timing you should be able to pull out a combo like Curse - Streak stun - CFrag to the face - Endless Fury to put him down.

As a sorc, its as simple as keeping harness up for unlimited sustain due to his dots, monitoring shields and timing dawnbreaker(or meteor) with det+curse+frag when his wings are down. Fortunately, Mag DK loving to be in melee range gives him less time/sometimes makes it impossible for him to react to a frag. If he's casting scales every 4 seconds he's never going to kill you though.

Thrasher91604

The thing is with lag it's very hard to time and discern much of anything.

Lexxypwns

Eh, no red aura around dk = scales isn't up

Thrasher91604

So curse and fury aren't reflected? How about meteor or dawnbreaker?

Also will daedric mines keep him out of melee range so whips wont get me?

Solariken wrote: »

A chart sounds nice in theory, but 4x4 certainly wouldn't be terribly helpful as it wouldn't provide nearly enough insight. 1v1 counterplay can be pretty complicated and nuanced.

That sounds like a cop out. You can put as much text as needed in each box. Or one post for each box.

Perhaps you don't want to reveal your secrets.

ostrapz

I think scales only works for projectiles. Dks will be hardest for sorc to kill. Mines are key.

Sorc beats nb because of streak detection and crit mitigation with shield.
Nb beat dk because of burst and dot mitigation with cloak( they are a bit better since patch)
Dk beats sorc because of them being able to stop c frags and get you stuck with talons
Templars are kinda up in the air because a lot are healing specced in pvp but with a strong build and skill they can put a good fight against anyone imo

Lexxypwns

ostrapz wrote: »

I think scales only works for projectiles. Dks will be hardest for sorc to kill. Mines are key.

Sorc beats nb because of streak detection and crit mitigation with shield.
Nb beat dk because of burst and dot mitigation with cloak( they are a bit better since patch)
Dk beats sorc because of them being able to stop c frags and get you stuck with talons
Templars are kinda up in the air because a lot are healing specced in pvp but with a strong build and skill they can put a good fight against anyone imo

DK doesn't beat sorc unless he's drastically more skilled. The math just doesn't work out, he won't have enough burst without you fragging yourself off his wings. Stalemate is easily achievable though.

DeanTheCat

@Thrasher91604

Maybe this might help?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/172558/surviving-cyrodiil-how-to-hopefully-die-less-often#latest

Thrasher91604

DeanTheCat wrote: »

@Thrasher91604

Maybe this might help?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/172558/surviving-cyrodiil-how-to-hopefully-die-less-often#latest

Thanks!

FriedEggSandwich

Defensive Rune is a good skill for countering DKs. If you throw a frag at a DK and they reflect it back you can block and the tiny bit of damage it does to you will proc the rune, therefore hard CCing the DK through their reflect and dropping their block, at the cost of some hp and stamina. It's also good when they attack you, it often takes them by surprise and messes with their wings timing. Other effective skills include mines, curse, streak, atronach or lightening/resto staff heavy attacks. In a group setting just resto heavy attack until you see their reflect drop then frags and execute when you can.

Edit: On pc there are add-ons that tell you when your projectile has been reflected back at you. If you know your frags is on its way back it's not a bad idea to block or dodge roll if you have the stam, at the very least it's less embarrassing this way. It's best to learn to recognise when they have reflect up though, and time your frags for when it drops. Also the closer you are to them when you launch your insta-frags the less time they have to react to it, and if you hold block when you launch it they won't see the animation either and you're protected in case they do reflect it. And if you have defensive rune up you're double protected

Thrasher91604

Thanks for those tips Fried one.

I find it hard to find the right set of skills that will counter all enemy classes and builds effectively though. Carrying defensive rune would use up another valuable slot. Not sure what the answer is.

Makkir

Since you are limited to 5 slots on each bar, you can't set up for every perfect situation.

I got killed by a DK last night who got the jump on me because I wasn't set up for one. I wasn't running mines, det, etc. I had overload slotted.

FriedEggSandwich

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Thanks for those tips Fried one.

I find it hard to find the right set of skills that will counter all enemy classes and builds effectively though. Carrying defensive rune would use up another valuable slot. Not sure what the answer is.

I replaced harness magicka with defensive rune. Harness isn't all that neccessary imo, unless you run low regen. With 30+ cp each in hardy and elemental defender hardened ward can be used by itself if you're comfortable switching bars a lot, or in combination with healing ward if you want a bit more protection. You don't really need to slot 3 wards as a sorc is what I'm saying, I think you just waste time casting them all.

Defensive Rune can also be used as a ranged interrupt for channelled abilities like cheesus beam or soul assault, as soon as the beam touches you the caster gets cc'd. You can use it to hard cc someone sitting on a keep sieging, therefore forcing them out of their siege to cc break, therefore slowing their efforts. It can be used to shake off someone chasing you with a gap closer, cast defensive rune between streaks and they get cc'd behind you allowing you to streak away out of range. And it can be used to troll players who lay caltrops cos as soon as you run over them it procs the rune and CCs the caster of the caltrops wherever they may be lol. The more you use defensive rune the more uses you find for it. I think it even procs from DKs chains hitting you, but I'm not certain about this.

It's a one use ability though and this becomes an issue if you have multiple opponents focused on you; it's not a 1vX tool, but I love it all the same.

Thrasher91604

Nice! Thanks!

FriedEggSandwich

Sorry to keep on, but this is also worth mentioning; the cc from defensive rune lasts a while, and npc guards in cyro don't cc break it. This means that despite it not being a 1vX tool you can use defensive rune to help you solo a resource. If you spam it while approaching the flag, without damaging any of the npcs on the flag, then you can have all 4 npcs caught in a rune and unable to damage you while you deal with the mage guard. This takes a bit of practice though. Even if just 2 of them are caught in a rune it helps, especially the healers.

Waffennacht

It's impossible to build a character capable of handling every situation easily.

It's easier, howeve, to post the current meta.

For my experience, the meta is:

NB, stam or magicka burst, basic idea is to gap close and time it where you are dead before you can respond. In their case, if you survive, they hope you're so close to death they can finish you before you can recover. Imo extremely vulnerable if caught after the initial burst. Magicka likes: lotus, proxy det, soul tether type things, stam likes concealed weapon and spam bush

Yolo sorc: almost every sorc out there: front bar something like Curse, Frag, Streak, Wrath, Entropy backbar, Hardened Ward, Annulment, Healing Ward, (maybe streak here to get away) power surge. Prob has Meteor. Imo if you get them in stacking mode and can keep up the pressure they'll die, do not however expend all resources and get Overloaded in the face. CC them until stam is gone then unload

DK, will DoT you and survive until he feels you are weak, then drops everything on you hoping WB will put you down. Imo resource management and well timed CC breaks will close the deal.

Temps, love to ja and stick yo with a spear, get you down and beam you to death. For me, a well timed gap close will stop the beam and mess them up. Like the sorc CC and well timed burst can help

Just my quick synopsis