An idea to add more variety to stamina builds.

BurritoESO

Currently, 99% of PvP stamina builds are forced to use a 2h just for access the rally. It's basically mandatory to run a 2h and be the same as every other stam build in the game. If rally was no longer a 2h skill, but an alliance war skill like vigor, players would no longer be forced to use 2h just for one of the very few viable stamina self heals. People could use any combination of weapons they want, which would allow people to use whatever weapons of their personal preference. What do you guys think?

Eirella

If that happens then I want healing ward to be an Alliance War skill so I'm not forced to use a resto staff on my Magicka toons.

themdogesbite

Soo... stamina players were upset about not haveing a heal besides rally, and got vigor. All fine and dandy with me since it made sense.

And now you want a 2nd stamina based AvA heal? dude, no. wtf are you thinking?

BurritoESO

You didn't read my post correctly, I suggested that rally should be moved to the alliance war skill line instead of the 2h skill line so they wouldn't be locked into using a 2h. I never suggested adding another heal.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Another QQ thread about rally

How about no. PvE players were crying that they didn't get vigor so ZOS not only moved it down the list of skills in assault but reduced overall EXP needed to get it but having both the only 2 valid stamina base healing in the game only in alliance skills is just a bad idea. Besides if rally is moved then it has to be replaced with something else.

Options..... ZOS adds more stamina base healing to the game.

AddictionX

Thats a good idea.

themdogesbite

BurritoESO wrote: »

You didn't read my post correctly, I suggested that rally should be moved to the alliance war skill line instead of the 2h skill line so they wouldn't be locked into using a 2h. I never suggested adding another heal.

No you're litteraly saying that you want 2 free heals from the AvA skill tree, man can't we just add the entire resto staff skill-line too then?

Ni7eWa7ch

themdogesbite wrote: »

Soo... stamina players were upset about not haveing a heal besides rally, and got vigor. All fine and dandy with me since it made sense.

And now you want a 2nd stamina based heal? dude, no. wtf are you thinking?

Do you play as a stamblade ? I don't think so . Vigor is an alliance war skill , not everyone is up to do pvp just to get Vigor
and magicka is just so much easy to survive , stamblade has to kill in order to get healed a bit and above all the skills available to do so are single target , the only skills that are morpable to stamina still do magicka damage instead of physical damage
And what is the problem about having an ability that heals us on demand or hot that uses stamina ??
Is there any class skill line that's pure and only stamina ? nope

themdogesbite

Ni7eWa7ch wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Soo... stamina players were upset about not haveing a heal besides rally, and got vigor. All fine and dandy with me since it made sense.

And now you want a 2nd stamina based heal? dude, no. wtf are you thinking?

Do you play as a stamblade ? I don't think so . Vigor is an alliance war skill , not everyone is up to do pvp just to get Vigor
and magicka is just so much easy to survive , stamblade has to kill in order to get healed a bit and above all the skills available to do so are single target , the only skills that are morpable to stamina still do magicka damage instead of physical damage
And what is the problem about having an ability that heals us on demand or hot that uses stamina ??
Is there any class skill line that's pure and only stamina ? nope

Yes, i have played every class as magica and stamina.

I wouldn't even call it beeing "up to pvp" in order to unlock vigor at this point. The effort you need to put in is like the size of a atom.

You have a skill that heals you on demand already, it's called rally, it's in the 2h skill line and it should stay there. You can't have the damn cake and also eat it now can you?

Although i do have something in mind that can improve the game for players like you, and for players that pvp!
A new alliance war skill that replaces vigor, but is unlocked to you upon entering Cyrodiil: Carebear! "Upon useage, instantly teleport the carebear out of cyrodiil and locks him out from participating until basic understanding of the game is obtained."

This is the skill icon:


"When basic knowledge about the game have been obtained, the skill changes into vigor, and the affected player can now be let back into PvP!

Brrrofski

To be fair, everyone except templar can get it from class skills.

DW also gives a less desirable version of it from flying blade. But it's there.

Ghost-Shot

themdogesbite wrote: »

BurritoESO wrote: »

You didn't read my post correctly, I suggested that rally should be moved to the alliance war skill line instead of the 2h skill line so they wouldn't be locked into using a 2h. I never suggested adding another heal.

No you're litteraly saying that you want 2 free heals from the AvA skill tree, man can't we just add the entire resto staff skill-line too then?

WTB blessing/healing ward without a resto staff

OdinForge

Tbh rally isn't even a required option for stam, it's a pretty *** heal alone after the 1.7 nerfs. For some builds with less natural mobility, forward momentum is a better option, especially with all the snares. There was once a time where rally was a good enough skill to be a solo heal, and vigor was just overkill.

Any extra healing is still good, but many players have been dropping rally and just using a stronger build + vigor.

Dude you can pvp for like a week now and unlock vigor, used to take months and months of grinding AP. Come on it's never been easier to get vigor, you don't even have to try now.

Elementz

OdinForge wrote: »

forward momentum is a better option, especially with all the snares.

lmfao

frozywozy

OdinForge wrote: »

Tbh rally isn't even a required option for stam, it's a pretty *** heal alone after the 1.7 nerfs. For some builds with less natural mobility, forward momentum is a better option, especially with all the snares. There was once a time where rally was a good enough skill to be a solo heal, and vigor was just overkill.

Any extra healing is still good, but many players have been dropping rally and just using a stronger build + vigor.

Dude you can pvp for like a week now and unlock vigor, used to take months and months of grinding AP. Come on it's never been easier to get vigor, you don't even have to try now.

Wait, Stam build without Rally? What game do you play?

Americanfunguy

BurritoESO wrote: »

stamina builds are forced to use a 2h just for access the rally.

My main pvper's are stamina, so I get what you mean entirely, but I do think its fine as it is. Magicka builds are forced to use a restoration staff for healing ward just as @jinkygames said. Although they do have some heals on the side as magicka builds, their drawback is its harder to deal with stamina draining enemies. Currently the force choice in weapons is not in a bad spot, and that's supposed to make you think on your builds. To determine the drawback's of using a bow instead of two handed, one has range, one has sustain, and you have to play accordingly. I, for one think its fair.

reften

yeah I agree. I do at times go Bow/DW and put flying blade on my DW bar for the buff...or run with stam tri-pots, but always seem to go back to 2H on my buff bar for the rally.

Such a powerful skill.

Other option is to nerf buffs so that if you switch off the bar you're on when you cast the buff, you loose it

That would be awful, but, would eliminate buff bars

OdinForge

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Tbh rally isn't even a required option for stam, it's a pretty *** heal alone after the 1.7 nerfs. For some builds with less natural mobility, forward momentum is a better option, especially with all the snares. There was once a time where rally was a good enough skill to be a solo heal, and vigor was just overkill.

Any extra healing is still good, but many players have been dropping rally and just using a stronger build + vigor.

Dude you can pvp for like a week now and unlock vigor, used to take months and months of grinding AP. Come on it's never been easier to get vigor, you don't even have to try now.

Wait, Stam build without Rally? What game do you play?

This game is rife with players who simply copy whatever works, and never actually experiment with the game beyond that. Rally hasn't been required for a long time, while sometimes I do use it there are many times where I don't. I used it in 1.8 (albeit not really needing it), and I don't use it currently whenever I do sign in with absolutely no loss in performance.

Rally was awesome in 1.6, but I got to experiment with vigor at medium-high CP levels, wasn't required. Post 1.7 even after the healing nerf, thanks to higher stats vigor is still just as good. The damage mitigation available to players is silly, some players like Fengrush or Ezareth come to mind, as successful stamina builds who dropped rally sometimes.

The truth is it just hasn't been required.

Jaybe_Mawfaka

what's "stamina builds"? I thought this game is elder magickanbsdetonation online

HoloYoitsu

Jaybe_Mawfaka wrote: »

what's "stamina builds"? I thought this game is elder magickanbsdetonation online

They are arguing over who gets the shiney display case in the museum.

frozywozy

OdinForge wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Tbh rally isn't even a required option for stam, it's a pretty *** heal alone after the 1.7 nerfs. For some builds with less natural mobility, forward momentum is a better option, especially with all the snares. There was once a time where rally was a good enough skill to be a solo heal, and vigor was just overkill.

Any extra healing is still good, but many players have been dropping rally and just using a stronger build + vigor.

Dude you can pvp for like a week now and unlock vigor, used to take months and months of grinding AP. Come on it's never been easier to get vigor, you don't even have to try now.

Wait, Stam build without Rally? What game do you play?

This game is rife with players who simply copy whatever works, and never actually experiment with the game beyond that. Rally hasn't been required for a long time, while sometimes I do use it there are many times where I don't. I used it in 1.8 (albeit not really needing it), and I don't use it currently whenever I do sign in with absolutely no loss in performance.

Rally was awesome in 1.6, but I got to experiment with vigor at medium-high CP levels, wasn't required. Post 1.7 even after the healing nerf, thanks to higher stats vigor is still just as good. The damage mitigation available to players is silly, some players like Fengrush or Ezareth come to mind, as successful stamina builds who dropped rally sometimes.

The truth is it just hasn't been required.

Give me Surge and I'll drop Rally anytime!

OdinForge

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Tbh rally isn't even a required option for stam, it's a pretty *** heal alone after the 1.7 nerfs. For some builds with less natural mobility, forward momentum is a better option, especially with all the snares. There was once a time where rally was a good enough skill to be a solo heal, and vigor was just overkill.

Any extra healing is still good, but many players have been dropping rally and just using a stronger build + vigor.

Dude you can pvp for like a week now and unlock vigor, used to take months and months of grinding AP. Come on it's never been easier to get vigor, you don't even have to try now.

Wait, Stam build without Rally? What game do you play?

This game is rife with players who simply copy whatever works, and never actually experiment with the game beyond that. Rally hasn't been required for a long time, while sometimes I do use it there are many times where I don't. I used it in 1.8 (albeit not really needing it), and I don't use it currently whenever I do sign in with absolutely no loss in performance.

Rally was awesome in 1.6, but I got to experiment with vigor at medium-high CP levels, wasn't required. Post 1.7 even after the healing nerf, thanks to higher stats vigor is still just as good. The damage mitigation available to players is silly, some players like Fengrush or Ezareth come to mind, as successful stamina builds who dropped rally sometimes.

The truth is it just hasn't been required.

Give me Surge and I'll drop Rally anytime!

Except that you don't need surge to drop the rally morph of momentum, forward momentum gives both a more reliable HoT and brutality (as well as a much reduced cost and snare cleansing). Works best with a 2H/1H type setup where mobility is less natural but blocking out damage is more common, getting rid of the rally morph isn't for everyone and every build, but there are other options in the game if you experiment.

_Ani_

Except that you don't need surge to drop the rally morph of momentum, forward momentum gives both a more reliable HoT and brutality (as well as a much reduced cost and snare cleansing). Works best with a 2H/1H type setup where mobility is less natural but blocking out damage is more common, getting rid of the rally morph isn't for everyone and every build, but there are other options in the game if you experiment. [/quote]

I agree completely. I dropped rally months ago in favor of forward momentum. Haven't missed rally or regretted my decision at all. With how pvp is right now, I have been really surprised more people haven't been switching to forward momentum.

OdinForge

_Ani_

Ya I'd go forward momentum for any setup post 1.9 (even post 1.7) that doesn't use a bow. The typical 2H/Bow open world stam setups will easily still benefit from rally and shuffle is better to use with a bow off-hand. But for any other 1H/2H or DW/2H type builds, or stat food builds forward momentum works better with another skill or potion acting as a speed buff.

With enough resource and damage, vigor should be healing a ton. Plus block or dodge or whatever other defensive skill you have.

_Ani_

OdinForge wrote: »

_Ani_

Ya I'd go forward momentum for any setup post 1.9 (even post 1.7) that doesn't use a bow. The typical 2H/Bow open world stam setups will easily still benefit from rally and shuffle is better to use with a bow off-hand. But for any other 1H/2H or DW/2H type builds, or stat food builds forward momentum works better with another skill or potion acting as a speed buff.

With enough resource and damage, vigor should be healing a ton. Plus block or dodge or whatever other defensive skill you have.

Well, exactly. I get all the healing I need from vigor and, TBH, if it does not, I don't think rally is going to save me. Most my oh crap moments involve a horde and getting away is much more valuable than a heal. I am 2h/dw and a dk, so especially since this last DLC, I consider forward momentum one of the best things on my bar. I haven't really felt stam has been weak, I get a lot of wins but changing things has definitely been a necessity to remain viable. losing the idea that rally is the only way to go, imo is one of those things stams need to consider.

RadioheadSh0t

Edit: wrong thread

Jar_Ek

Isn't the issue really that 2h simply has better skills across the board? It has a gap closer, a buff+heal combined (that can be precast), a hard hitter that self buffs, an execute that buffs all 2h attacks in execute range, and an aoe that generates a shield based on number of targets.
Dw has a bleed that provides as a hot (which at least works now) but the major damage component can be purged, a channelled damage attack, a ranged attack that buffs, an aoe damage reduction with a speed buff, and an aoe execute.

Now what do people generally use from Dw? The aoe execute. Unless you build specifically for DoTs that is.

Oh and from a synergy point of view 2h synergises better with more classes.

Vangy

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Isn't the issue really that 2h simply has better skills across the board? It has a gap closer, a buff+heal combined (that can be precast), a hard hitter that self buffs, an execute that buffs all 2h attacks in execute range, and an aoe that generates a shield based on number of targets.
Dw has a bleed that provides as a hot (which at least works now) but the major damage component can be purged, a channelled damage attack, a ranged attack that buffs, an aoe damage reduction with a speed buff, and an aoe execute.

Now what do people generally use from Dw? The aoe execute. Unless you build specifically for DoTs that is.

Oh and from a synergy point of view 2h synergises better with more classes.

^ this. It dosent matter where you place rally. Fighers guild, mages guild, AvA, undaunted etc etc. 2H is just far better overall.

1. Flurry vs WB as main spender: Isnt even a contest. FLurry does most of its damage at the end and any1 with half a brain is going to CC you or get away from most of the damage. WB has a self-empower (and almost ranged attack range hur hur) and CCs. WB>>>flurry for PvP. (2H:1 DW:0 )

2. Gap closer. 2H has one and DW dont. (2H:2 DW:0)

3. Single target execute that grants 17% bonus damage for just being slotted. Pretty good. DW gets aoe execute and solid AOE. Pretty much on par with each other in different situations. (2H:3 DW:1)

4. Rally is just the final nail in the coffin. 2H gets a major buff and a heal while DW gets Aoe damage reduction + a wannabe ranged attack. (2H:4 DW:1)

Even if you move rally its still going to be 2H:3 DW:1..... Also maelstrom 2hs are SOOO good for PvP. Open with snipe+poison injection then move into stampede/crit rush = double deathly dots on your opponent right off the bat. Maelstrom DW is just so meh for PvP even for DKS. PvE tho they are godly lol.

Rylana

The only reasons people use dual wield nowadays

- steel tornado (really going out of style)
- higher spell/weapon damage stats DW/Resto or DW/Destro is extremely common with magicka builds nowadays, and class skill stamblades do really well with DW damage increases for class skills like spambush and SA
- twin blade and blunt passive effects (crit, bleed, damage, etc)

Outside of that, if youre slotting dual wield, i dont know what to tell you.

Trashkan

I feel like there is a simple answer to all of this. Make all craftable sets in the game with a jewelery drop from random bosses that is bind on equip. More versitile builds more options to craft 2 5 piece sets. On top of all that the in game economy would be back to the V12/V14 days before motifs were the only thing of value.

Rune_Relic

resto staff - use 4th major 'healing resource' scaled off unused attribute points.
Add a minor class heal to all based off same attribute.
Remove all magicka/stamina heals.

Job done.

Weapons do damage. Nothing more and nothing less.
Want to heal ? Sacrifice magicka/stamina damage and mitigation.

Nafirian

BurritoESO wrote: »

Currently, 99% of PvP stamina builds are forced to use a 2h just for access the rally. It's basically mandatory to run a 2h and be the same as every other stam build in the game. If rally was no longer a 2h skill, but an alliance war skill like vigor, players would no longer be forced to use 2h just for one of the very few viable stamina self heals. People could use any combination of weapons they want, which would allow people to use whatever weapons of their personal preference. What do you guys think?

Most stamina builds run 2H most magicka builds even templars use healing ward all weapon ability so it would be unfair and having 2 free heals form the AVA? lol no and ive seen some good dw bow builds work in the hands of good players.