Sorcerer with dual wield swords

AlphaCrucis

So mages use dual wield swords to gain spell damage but what class skill do you use. (Sorcerer)

Beardimus

Check the racial passives for what you want to do. Most people here would say Altmer, then either Dunmer / Breton for Sorc.

And Dual wield only boosts spell damage if you have points in the last passive, so focus on getting the skill line to L50 first (Dunmer have a 15% XP boost in Dual Wield FYI)

Acsvf

As a sorcerer, it would probably be beneficial to use a destruction staff as you don't really have a spammable.

Acsvf

Beardimus wrote: »

Check the racial passives for what you want to do. Most people here would say Altmer, then either Dunmer / Breton for Sorc.

And Dual wield only boosts spell damage if you have points in the last passive, so focus on getting the skill line to L50 first (Dunmer have a 15% XP boost in Dual Wield FYI)

With all due respect, no. Dual Wield increases spell damage because you get a fraction of the damage from your offhand weapon.

Beardimus

Ok @Acsvf have you checked the last passive? Dual swords with two points in the last passive give you a 5% boost to damage (inc spell) which is why everyone says to run them. Sure you get a second weopon, and glyph and extra set item too (set right can also boost spell damage such as Torugs Pact) but the main reason is as I said above most dual wield sorcs don't even use the blades on the back bar, it's purely there for the boost.

Look for yourself at the passive , test the damage if you don't believe me or search the multiple posts on here

Acsvf

The passive does not increase your spell damage, rather, it increases damage done. There is a lot of difference between these two- spell damage is a stat.
Dual Wield by itself increases spell damage due to, as stated before, damage you get from the offhand weapon.

Stannum

look, sorc skill rotation is simple: surge-frags until execute-fury

DRXHarbinger

AlphaCrucis wrote: »

So mages use dual wield swords to gain spell damage but what class skill do you use. (Sorcerer)

Ignore the above, amateur sorcs. Sword bar is your buff bar...so ward (stronger ward on swords) surge, liquid lit, bound aegis and innerlight....then overload. ..overload on your sword bar is more powerful. Overload bar to mirror sword bar...staff bar pretty much the same, so ward, innerlight, bound aegis, frags and crushing shock... switch to swords and overload away..that's all they are good for on a sorc.

So in short...on a boss.. sword bar, buff up and liquid lit down, back to staff bar and weave away with crushing shock and frags... when health is down switch to swords and overload away job done... PVP a bit different. Switch LL to daedric tomb etc. Much better for duel...put it around them and force them out of your mines rather than wait for them to come to you.

jeeves3krwb17_ESO

Actually shield is normally higher on main destro bar as people slot 'meteor' for extra mag, and overload on dual wield. I get a good 500 more on my hardened ward of my destro staff

Apart from that I whole heatedly agree -

Beardimus

@DRXHarbinger yep that's what I was suggesting too, dual wield on the back bar. The amateur debate was between us arguing about why dual wield gives more spell damage

@Acsvf so I understand, are you saying the passive does not boost the damage my spells do at all? I.e. I can save my two points? If so great and I've misunderstood, but id like that confirmed as I've certainly read its the passive that we all run it for on top of the other gains

Acsvf

@Beardimus The passive is an increase to damage. If you get the passive and use two swords, you deal 5% more damage. Yes, it does increase the damage of your spells, but not the stat "spell damage".

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I must agree with @DRXHarbinger. Putting Overload on the back bar allows you to get benefits for Dual Wielding when using Overload, and also allows you to use a destruction staff on the front bar- that's how I would set a magicka sorc up if I do use one.

Beardimus

Ok thanks @Acsvf the points will stay were they are, we were splitting hairs

Not to digress the post but it may help the OP too, if Overload is on that buff bar too how do you charge the ultimate fully? I.e. Do you need to attack with the swords?

Secondly I don't fully know how ultimate charges I.e. Sometimes the back bar charges and I'm not using the swords. Are they totally independent? (I.e. Main bar / back)

ListerJMC

On my sorcerer's duel-wield bar I have bound aegis (summoning), power surge (storm), liquid lightning (storm), endless fury (storm), magelight (Mages Guild), and overload (storm). So, mostly storm calling on that bar .

Before a fight I'll cast power surge then lay down some liquid lightning before swapping to my staff bar for my main damage abilities. Aegis should be up all the time.

For duel wield it's the last passive you want, "Twin Blade and Blunt", for that bonus damage.

ListerJMC

Beardimus wrote: »

Ok thanks @Acsvf the points will stay were they are, we were splitting hairs

Not to digress the post but it may help the OP too, if Overload is on that buff bar too how do you charge the ultimate fully? I.e. Do you need to attack with the swords?

Secondly I don't fully know how ultimate charges I.e. Sometimes the back bar charges and I'm not using the swords. Are they totally independent? (I.e. Main bar / back)

You charge Overload by weaving on your staff bar, both ultimates will charge regardless of what bar you're on.

Acsvf

@Beardimus Ultimate is a resource. If you get ultimate on one bar it carries over to the other. If you use up your ultimate on one bar you won't be able to use the one on the other bar. Well, you shouldn't be able to anyways.

psychotic13

Acsvf wrote: »

@Beardimus Ultimate is a resource. If you get ultimate on one bar it carries over to the other. If you use up your ultimate on one bar you won't be able to use the one on the other bar. Well, you shouldn't be able to anyways.

Correct, although overload isn't as simple as that as when you activate this ultimate it doesn't empty your ultimate pool, it depletes slowly. And as you can get a total of 1000% ultimate, If you let it charge this high you are able to use overload for a long time before switching back and still having enough resource left to cast a meteor for example.

Beardimus

Thanks @psychotic13 that's what I thought I often have varying levels.

Also on console you have no way of telling your charge for Overload, sometimes it lasts for ages others you come out after 2/3 light attacks.

Last question - does any activity charge ultimate on a bar or purely weapon (LA weaves etc) I.e. Staff attacks on main bar to charge both bars only

psychotic13

You gain ultimate by using light attacks with any weapon, depending on class and skills there are some Abilites that give you extra ultimate, for example the 'shooting star' morph of meteor gives you something like 13 ultimate for every enemy that was hit by it.

Also there are several Passives that give bonuses, but they vary depending on class.

Minalan

Sorc gains with dual wield:
5% spell damage
Extra set bonus for the off-hand weapon - usually spell damage, Magicka regen, or bonus magicka

Loss with dual wield over destro staff:
Animation cancelled light attacks woven in between spells for extra DPS.
Unreflectable heavy attack that restores magicka and applies elemental effect. Though you still get this by swapping bars.

GeorgeBlack

Dual Wield is an accessory of a weapon for builds like that.

It should be a warriors weapon, effective in PvP. Topics like this highlight what Dual Wield is reduced to.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Beardimus

Maybe but I like it, Gandalf style. If I had to have two staffs it would annoy me, even tho I barely swing them it adds something for me.

Emma_Overload

Beardimus wrote: »

Ok @Acsvf have you checked the last passive? Dual swords with two points in the last passive give you a 5% boost to damage (inc spell) which is why everyone says to run them. Sure you get a second weopon, and glyph and extra set item too (set right can also boost spell damage such as Torugs Pact) but the main reason is as I said above most dual wield sorcs don't even use the blades on the back bar, it's purely there for the boost.

Look for yourself at the passive , test the damage if you don't believe me or search the multiple posts on here

That passive doesn't work for spell damage any more, no matter what you read on the forums. Dual dagger or axes will give you just as much spell damage as swords.

Emma_Overload

Minalan wrote: »

Sorc gains with dual wield:
5% spell damage
Extra set bonus for the off-hand weapon - usually spell damage, Magicka regen, or bonus magicka

Loss with dual wield over destro staff:
Animation cancelled light attacks woven in between spells for extra DPS.
Unreflectable heavy attack that restores magicka and applies elemental effect. Though you still get this by swapping bars.

You forgot to mention the biggest drawback of all: the difficulty of gaining Ultimate with a melee weapon used at range!

Beardimus

^ hang on that's the question I've been asking about ultimate all through this thread. I.e. If you have DW on back bar and staff on main you don't need to use mêlée attack as the staff will build both ultimate's no? I thought that's how it was explained above?

Emma_Overload

Beardimus wrote: »

^ hang on that's the question I've been asking about ultimate all through this thread. I.e. If you have DW on back bar and staff on main you don't need to use mêlée attack as the staff will build both ultimate's no? I thought that's how it was explained above?

I guess if ALL you use the DW for is for occasional buffs and Overload, then it would be OK I guess. You see a lot of people using DW for their main/attack bar, though, and that's when you see slow Ultimate gain.

scibur314r8t

hmmmm i have learnt something new from this. thanks

Lord-Otto

People use swords for increased burst damage and the second set bonus.
Standard rotation is Curse-Frag-Fury for that. You can (and IMO, should) throw in an Inevitable Det before the Curse for even more burst. Tangling Webs from the Undaunted skill line can be used as a substitute dps move, but it can be reflected, so be careful.

No, spellpower does not increase shields, max magicka does. You can increase your heals with swords, though. And your DoTs. Some people therefore put their spammable dps skills on a destro bar, with heals and DoTs on the second DW bar. I don't think it's worth losing Healing Ward for this, though. Also, Overload does not benefit from the DW passives, only from raw spellpower. So judge for yourself if 200 points of spellpower are really worth it.

In my testing, I reached the conclusion that for single targets, a destro staff is better. Medium weave plus Crushing Shock gives you better damage output. Against mobs, DW with Inevitable Det is the ultimate killer. However, as Emma said, the hit to resource and ulti generation using DW can be a deciding disadvantage. And if you wanna run proxy Det for PvP, Impulse becomes a must for PvE, unless you wanna respec every time you change modes.