Non-Vet PvP battle-levels anyway, why not let us into campaign at level 1?

Giraffon

Why not just let folks play the non-vet campaign as soon as they start a new character? Players are getting battle leveled and there are no champion points so what difference does it make?

haunted1994F

Yeah sure just spam light and heavy attack its not really fun.

UrQuan

So I see you're looking for easy kills by letting a whole bunch of characters with no skill points into PVP...

Nestor

And what skills do you bring to the fight at Level 1?

OK, Level 3 as your not getting out of the Wailing Prison at much less than that no matter what you do.

TequilaFire

you can get to level 10 in an hour or two. smh

Giraffon

The average player isn't going to be level 10 in an hour. Yes, there are ways if you know what to do and get in the right groups, but not everyone does this.

Could I get any buy-in if we limited the Level 1 players to only the non-vet campaigns until they reach level 10?

Skinzz

Just level to 10 before pvp. As simple as that. Not a hard concept.

TequilaFire

OK 2 hours! lol
Seriously bring your level 1 sword on with no skills unlocked.

Giraffon

Argh! Am I the only one that sees this?!? It serves no purpose! Why restrict it at all? How is it different than me taking a level 1 character into Wrothgar or Hew's Bane? It's not. I'll be VR16 with no skills. Good enough to do delves and fight NPCs. The rest will happen rather quickly and I won't have to spend a single day in Stonefalls!

Let me in at level 1!!!!

idk

haunted1994F wrote: »

Yeah sure just spam light and heavy attack its not really fun.

Yea. It really wouldn't add anything to PvP as they'd be easy kills. No skills and their armor would become outdated (for battle leveling) really fast.

Callous2208

In Wrothgar and Hew's you're not an annoying spec that brings nothing to the table to help your alliance. In those pve areas, you're not a free ap farm. Also, it literally takes an hour or less, no matter how casual you are, to hit level 10. And if it takes longer, you don't belong in pvp anyhow, you need that extra few levels and hours to learn your class.

idk

Giraffon wrote: »

Argh! Am I the only one that sees this?!? It serves no purpose! Why restrict it at all? How is it different than me taking a level 1 character into Wrothgar or Hew's Bane? It's not. I'll be VR16 with no skills. Good enough to do delves and fight NPCs. The rest will happen rather quickly and I won't have to spend a single day in Stonefalls!

Let me in at level 1!!!!

It's merely that we see this as a non-issue. Being how fast one levels to 10 and the skill points one gets from the main quests it's a good thing to wait until level 10. It's a matter of a few hous so no big deal.

The importance of this request fits nicely behind retiring the visual effects for magelight.

TequilaFire

Well despite my pokes I really don't care, but from experience I don't even like going till I have both weapon bars unlocked at 15.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Someone wants to start a lvl 1 light attack zerg army

Giraffon

My goal here is to come up with a way for pre level 10 players to enter Cyrodiil without grinding 10 levels of PvE.

At the very least, Blackwater should be available as soon as you create a new character. It's not going to hurt anything. I can't emphasize enough that level 1 or level 10 will make no difference if you go to a vet campaign. This idea that you need to be level 10 before you can survive is silly.

Giraffon

Callous2208 wrote: »

In Wrothgar and Hew's you're not an annoying spec that brings nothing to the table to help your alliance. In those pve areas, you're not a free ap farm. Also, it literally takes an hour or less, no matter how casual you are, to hit level 10. And if it takes longer, you don't belong in pvp anyhow, you need that extra few levels and hours to learn your class.

Even a level 1 character can run siege and siege is dangerous.

Callous2208

Giraffon wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

In Wrothgar and Hew's you're not an annoying spec that brings nothing to the table to help your alliance. In those pve areas, you're not a free ap farm. Also, it literally takes an hour or less, no matter how casual you are, to hit level 10. And if it takes longer, you don't belong in pvp anyhow, you need that extra few levels and hours to learn your class.

Even a level 1 character can run siege and siege is dangerous.

So with siege changes, you want to flood a campaign with a level 3 siege army. I'm on to your scheme.

catalyst10e

Giraffon wrote: »

My goal here is to come up with a way for pre level 10 players to enter Cyrodiil without grinding 10 levels of PvE.

At the very least, Blackwater should be available as soon as you create a new character. It's not going to hurt anything. But I can't emphasize enough that level 1 or level 10 will make no difference if you go to a vet campaign so this idea that you need to be level 10 before you can survive is silly.

Your goal is clear here, but any new player at level 1 should be spending their time learning how to play the game, gaining levels and skill points, and exploring. IMHO they should move the cap to 15, so when you unlock your second skill bar, you can then enter PVP, as you do yourself no credit jumping in before you do.

It will in fact hurt a lot. in PVP you'll have characters who thru no fault of their own, CANT help. they literally dont have the skills needed in order to survive or contribute to the group. At best they could run a siege weapon, but you wouldn't be able to count on them for much else. They'd be fodder, and die rather easily since they cant defend themselves from CC or burst, and that is distinctly NOT fun for anyone, and can cause the player to never want to PVP again. (which hurts the population) The differences between a level 1 and a level 10 are pretty vast if you really look at them, a level 10 has had the time to get new skills, find some skyshards, get some gear (better than starting gear anyway) and get used to their character.

Callous2208

Another thing to consider; It's not an issue atm, but do you know how livid the v16 Grand Warlords will be when their Cyro que is an hour due to an army of level 3 cannon fodder bogging down the map?

Inarre

You don't even get out of coldharbor until level 3. Why level 1?

Even at level 3 you have what, 3 skills if you're lucky?

Nah son. Keep it at 10.

Giraffon

catalyst10e wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

My goal here is to come up with a way for pre level 10 players to enter Cyrodiil without grinding 10 levels of PvE.

At the very least, Blackwater should be available as soon as you create a new character. It's not going to hurt anything. But I can't emphasize enough that level 1 or level 10 will make no difference if you go to a vet campaign so this idea that you need to be level 10 before you can survive is silly.

Your goal is clear here, but any new player at level 1 should be spending their time learning how to play the game, gaining levels and skill points, and exploring. IMHO they should move the cap to 15, so when you unlock your second skill bar, you can then enter PVP, as you do yourself no credit jumping in before you do.

It will in fact hurt a lot. in PVP you'll have characters who thru no fault of their own, CANT help. they literally dont have the skills needed in order to survive or contribute to the group. At best they could run a siege weapon, but you wouldn't be able to count on them for much else. They'd be fodder, and die rather easily since they cant defend themselves from CC or burst, and that is distinctly NOT fun for anyone, and can cause the player to never want to PVP again. (which hurts the population) The differences between a level 1 and a level 10 are pretty vast if you really look at them, a level 10 has had the time to get new skills, find some skyshards, get some gear (better than starting gear anyway) and get used to their character.

I'm glad you mentioned the skill bar issue. I had drafted a paragraph and then deleted it on this specific issue. I will throw this out as another idea that I almost included before but attention spans are short here so brevity is best:

Create a new compaign for levels 1-14 characters. Push them out when they hit level 15 because they get their second skill bar at this point.

Leave Blackwater and other campaigns with the level 10 minimum.

I also agree that there is a risk that new players might be turned off to PvP if they get wrecked. An idea I have for this would be to set an alliance rank that the player must achieve before they would be able to enter the non-vet campaign at level 1.

So if I totally got my way the changes would be:

Player can enter non-vet campaign at level 1 after they have achieved an alliance rank of 9 (title=Veteran) with a different character on the same account.

But if I can't get that, then add the second campaign as described above.

catalyst10e

Giraffon wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

My goal here is to come up with a way for pre level 10 players to enter Cyrodiil without grinding 10 levels of PvE.

At the very least, Blackwater should be available as soon as you create a new character. It's not going to hurt anything. But I can't emphasize enough that level 1 or level 10 will make no difference if you go to a vet campaign so this idea that you need to be level 10 before you can survive is silly.

Your goal is clear here, but any new player at level 1 should be spending their time learning how to play the game, gaining levels and skill points, and exploring. IMHO they should move the cap to 15, so when you unlock your second skill bar, you can then enter PVP, as you do yourself no credit jumping in before you do.

It will in fact hurt a lot. in PVP you'll have characters who thru no fault of their own, CANT help. they literally dont have the skills needed in order to survive or contribute to the group. At best they could run a siege weapon, but you wouldn't be able to count on them for much else. They'd be fodder, and die rather easily since they cant defend themselves from CC or burst, and that is distinctly NOT fun for anyone, and can cause the player to never want to PVP again. (which hurts the population) The differences between a level 1 and a level 10 are pretty vast if you really look at them, a level 10 has had the time to get new skills, find some skyshards, get some gear (better than starting gear anyway) and get used to their character.

I'm glad you mentioned the skill bar issue. I had drafted a paragraph and then deleted it on this specific issue. I will throw this out as another idea that I almost included before but attention spans are short here so brevity is best:

Create a new compaign for levels 1-14 characters. Push them out when they hit level 15 because they get their second skill bar at this point.

Leave Blackwater and other campaigns with the level 10 minimum.

I also agree that there is a risk that new players might be turned off to PvP if they get wrecked. An idea I have for this would be to set an alliance rank that the player must achieve before they would be able to enter the non-vet campaign at level 1.

So if I totally got my way the changes would be:

Player can enter non-vet campaign at level 1 after they have achieved an alliance rank of 9 (title=Veteran) with a different character on the same account.

But if I can't get that, then add the second campaign as described above.

But it's so easy and relatively quick to get to level 15, the campaign itself may not see ANY use at all. in which case it's taking up space, which, as we've just seen with the recent update dead campaigns are disappearing. It would also be adding a new and arbitrary hurdle, instead of level 10 to PVP it's alliance rank 9 to go to non vet? (if im understanding that correctly) It honestly sounds a bit more like you love pvp, have a bunch of characters, have started a new one and just wish that you could jump right back into it with said new character. Which I totally understand, as I recently started a new alt myself, and kinda fell into that same camp. But I learned rather quickly after jumping into even the non vet campaign, being a level 10 in PVP is a huge disadvantage, and it is much better and much easier to just go and do some quests or grinding get to at least 15 or higher and then jumping back in. PVP doesn't need a bunch of level 1-3 characters who can only light and heavy attack, running siege that they dont know how to properly use, and cluttering the area chat with frustration. Most people I've met who are hard core PVPers now didn't even try PVP till they were around lvl 20-30. This niche of players who would be willing to jump into a campaign of just lvl 1-14 is so small it may as well be considered non-existent.

unjulationb16_ESO

if someone wants to pvp at whatever level, why not?

personally i wouldn't want to but each to their own tbh and i really don't understand why anyone would have a problem with the idea at all

UrQuan

Giraffon wrote: »

My goal here is to come up with a way for pre level 10 players to enter Cyrodiil without grinding 10 levels of PvE.

At the very least, Blackwater should be available as soon as you create a new character. It's not going to hurt anything. I can't emphasize enough that level 1 or level 10 will make no difference if you go to a vet campaign. This idea that you need to be level 10 before you can survive is silly.

I can't emphasize enough that having no skill points and no gear and no idea how to play the game would make brand new level 1 players (actually level 3 players) nothing more than free kills.

So yes, great idea! Let's let brand new players go right into PVP and get slaughtered over and over again with absolutely no chance of even fighting back, until they ragequit and never play again! Brilliant!

Lenikus

A level 1 character has (besides no equipment whatsoever) not enough skillpoints to have a damm complete bar. Not to mention that passives and armor / guild skill lines are completely out of question for a lowlie build that did not rush skyshards on the 5 first zones that aren't locked in cadwell's / vr content.
It would be fun, yea, picking at "mobs" that only light attack and have 30k health, but it would not be fun for them as they'd say things like "other characters are too OP".

If you do PvP enough, you know how ridiculous the difference between a random lv 10 ~ Vr 15 character, and a well-built Vr16. That difference would be merely way more visible if you allow a lv 5 in cyro, for example.

unjulationb16_ESO

so what if peeps have no skills or dont know what they are doing if they want to pvp why not?
how in any way does that impact on your fun if they get killed repetedly?
and if someone goes into it at that level then they know they are going to be underpowerd compared to a 2 year vet but if thats what they want to do, go for it i say
peeps moan about eso holding noobs hands but peeps seem to be doing exactly the same on this thred - "oh no it will be teribad for them they'll just quit" how do you know they will, you might but how do you they will? and so wat if they do its no ones problem but their own

ToRelax

A small unranked battleground for level 1-14 once they implement Arenas maybe?

starkerealm

Giraffon wrote: »

Why restrict it at all?

So that your very first experience isn't a level 48 smearing you off the map with ambush + killer's blade spam, and dancing off into the sunset, while you decide that the game is terrible, and make PvP both your very first and very last experience in ESO.

catalyst10e

unjulationb16_ESO wrote: »

so what if peeps have no skills or dont know what they are doing if they want to pvp why not?
how in any way does that impact on your fun if they get killed repetedly?
and if someone goes into it at that level then they know they are going to be underpowerd compared to a 2 year vet but if thats what they want to do, go for it i say
peeps moan about eso holding noobs hands but peeps seem to be doing exactly the same on this thred - "oh no it will be teribad for them they'll just quit" how do you know they will, you might but how do you they will? and so wat if they do its no ones problem but their own

Well it would impact MY fun because it's not fun to just mow down inexperienced players... the better fights have some back and forth. But it'd also impact my fun when those same people jump on the forums trying to claim my frags hit too hard and need a nerf because they happened to die to a few, saw 13k+ damage on their recap, and have no idea how it does that much damage so it must be OP.

They don't know they're going to be underpowered, they have no measurement for that yet... they may as likely assume there will be lots of other lvl 3-14 running around for them to fight.

unjulationb16_ESO

Well it would impact MY fun because it's not fun to just mow down inexperienced players...

dont kill them then

They don't know they're going to be underpowered, they have no measurement for that yet...

of course they do, do you realy think so little of peeps that they do not understand that if they go into pvp as a level 1 they are going up against players who have been in game for 2yrs+ they are going to be extreamly underpowerd in comparison ?

catalyst10e

unjulationb16_ESO wrote: »

Well it would impact MY fun because it's not fun to just mow down inexperienced players...

dont kill them then

They don't know they're going to be underpowered, they have no measurement for that yet...

of course they do, do you realy think so little of peeps that they do not understand that if they go into pvp as a level 1 they are going up against players who have been in game for 2yrs+ they are going to be extreamly underpowerd in comparison ?

Don't kill players in PVP? are you serious? So when the 10 level 5s roll up with their fisher price "my first battering ram" I just don't kill them? HOW is this a solution? The current system of forcing them to wait until they've unlocked some skills and gear works.

Do I think so little? I am remembering what it was like when I started and I had no idea what PVP was, who was there, or how to do it. I went in at level 22 and had no idea what a veteran rank even was, why would I have? I only had the game a day. Do YOU not remember what it was like being new to the game? People still don't understand how siege works. Have you been to the non vet campaign recently? I jumped on with an alt, and just listened to the conversations and watched how they tried to take a keep. You'll hear/see plenty of people who have no clue what their doing.