Why We Need A Dueling System

Daedgaming

First off, after reading several other forum posts from both sides of the coin. I have come to the conclusion sadly that the ones who stand against a dueling system being added are simply misinformed and excuse my elitist pvp word usage here "bad players" themselves and dont want something added that would show the world how "bad" they really are. Whether it be they have no self esteem and take this game to seriously, or they just dont want to hear people calling them "bads" when they decline a duel challenge. All I have read is a bunch of players crying and crying when in fact they are standing in the way of the progress of this game and what it could become. In fact they are standing in the way of their own progress. Dueling could in fact improve them as a pvper were it to be added, dueling is how I learned how to be good at all of the other games I have played.

After watching people duel and feeling it out myself I eventually developed strategies in my head and then started winning more then losing. It is all practice and dueling is what gives us that. While there will always be an unintelligent base of pvp fans who discriminate left and right simply because if you dont pvp you are considered bad to them; there is a whole different community that wants to help and loves learning new play styles and theorycrafting etc. It comes to this really. All of the great mmorpgs have all had a good pvp system implemented while not perfect at certain times, there was always a dueling system to go along with it. How can we even call this an mmorpg when we cannot even duel each other? How can we call it a role playing game when this game in fact essentially makes roleplaying almost impossible? It also comes down to you players with no self esteem growing a pair of things called balls, putting on you're big boy and girl pants, and dealing with life instead of running away from it. Aka if you take a game so seriously that it effects your current mental state, then you shouldn't be playing video games in the first place. It is just a game people. Deal with it.

DenMoria

The ability to murder another player or even duel them and win does not make you a better player. It makes you a killer. Nothing more. Those who do not prefer PvP are not "bad players", they are simply people that enjoy the adventure more than the mayhem, murder and competition.

If I could solve more problems in ESO without having to kill everything in my path, I, personally would be far happier.

PvP is not my thing, but, when push comes to shove, I don't necessarily need to murder my opponent to make them miserable.

Moglijuana

DenMoria wrote: »

The ability to murder another player or even duel them and win does not make you a better player. It makes you a killer. Nothing more. Those who do not prefer PvP are not "bad players", they are simply people that enjoy the adventure more than the mayhem, murder and competition.

If I could solve more problems in ESO without having to kill everything in my path, I, personally would be far happier.

PvP is not my thing, but, when push comes to shove, I don't necessarily need to murder my opponent to make them miserable.

I'm pretty sure every single player in the game has contributed to said "murder"...how else are you going to level up? lol. If dueling was implemented the skill threshold of PvP AND PvE would rise dramatically and just make the game more competitive for everyone. How is someone supposed to learn if they can't practice? Dueling would be a safe option for new players to hone their skills with friends and randoms alike without the fear of doing bad in open world PvP and then consequently coming to the forums to complain on how said PvP is too unbalanced and unfair.

Daedgaming

Moglijuana wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

The ability to murder another player or even duel them and win does not make you a better player. It makes you a killer. Nothing more. Those who do not prefer PvP are not "bad players", they are simply people that enjoy the adventure more than the mayhem, murder and competition.

If I could solve more problems in ESO without having to kill everything in my path, I, personally would be far happier.

PvP is not my thing, but, when push comes to shove, I don't necessarily need to murder my opponent to make them miserable.

I'm pretty sure every single player in the game has contributed to said "murder"...how else are you going to level up? lol. If dueling was implemented the skill threshold of PvP AND PvE would rise dramatically and just make the game more competitive for everyone. How is someone supposed to learn if they can't practice? Dueling would be a safe option for new players to hone their skills with friends and randoms alike without the fear of doing bad in open world PvP and then consequently coming to the forums to complain on how said PvP is too unbalanced and unfair.

Exactly.

SemiD4rkness

Pvers get so butthurt. We have little pve in cyrodiil so we should have little pcp (duels) outside cyrodiil. It wont affect people who do not want to duel at all. If some dude comes asking for a duel and call you "bad player" just ignore and move on with your life.

WalkingLegacy

DenMoria wrote: »

The ability to murder another player or even duel them and win does not make you a better player. It makes you a killer. Nothing more. Those who do not prefer PvP are not "bad players", they are simply people that enjoy the adventure more than the mayhem, murder and competition.

If I could solve more problems in ESO without having to kill everything in my path, I, personally would be far happier.

PvP is not my thing, but, when push comes to shove, I don't necessarily need to murder my opponent to make them miserable.

When you duel, it is a non death thing. You just lose. A duel takes place only with consent.

When you win a duel an emote should pop up for all to see "Walkinglegacy defeated DenMoria in a duel"

No repair loss, no death.

You're not understanding what a duel is. Is ESO your first MMORPG?

Abeille

ZOS is already working on it, so what is this thread for, really? Because they kinda look like flame bait (if it is not, I apologize, disregard).

Personally, I want duels to be introduced in an immersive way instead of just as an "invite to duel" option. I mean, if you start fighting your friend in the middle of a town IRL, you would probably be arrested. So, if they go for the "invite to duel" option, I would expect the npcs (including guards) to react to the fight, which would force people who want to duel do look for more secluded places. I'm already not a fan of the AoE spamming in towns as it is. I also hope ZOS goes for a public arena of some kind, where other people could go watch the duels and place bets.

Daedgaming

Abeille wrote: »

ZOS is already working on it, so what is this thread for, really? Because they kinda look like flame bait (if it is not, I apologize, disregard).

Personally, I want duels to be introduced in an immersive way instead of just as an "invite to duel" option. I mean, if you start fighting your friend in the middle of a town IRL, you would probably be arrested. So, if they go for the "invite to duel" option, I would expect the npcs (including guards) to react to the fight, which would force people who want to duel do look for more secluded places. I'm already not a fan of the AoE spamming in towns as it is. I also hope ZOS goes for a public arena of some kind, where other people could go watch the duels and place bets.

That would break the game in so many ways. I liked how World of Warcraft did it, you could duel outside of cities but you could not duel inside, the game wouldn't let you.

Abeille

Daedgaming wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

ZOS is already working on it, so what is this thread for, really? Because they kinda look like flame bait (if it is not, I apologize, disregard).

Personally, I want duels to be introduced in an immersive way instead of just as an "invite to duel" option. I mean, if you start fighting your friend in the middle of a town IRL, you would probably be arrested. So, if they go for the "invite to duel" option, I would expect the npcs (including guards) to react to the fight, which would force people who want to duel do look for more secluded places. I'm already not a fan of the AoE spamming in towns as it is. I also hope ZOS goes for a public arena of some kind, where other people could go watch the duels and place bets.

That would break the game in so many ways. I liked how World of Warcraft did it, you could duel outside of cities but you could not duel inside, the game wouldn't let you.

That would be fine by me. All the bright effects while I'm trying to talk to the guild merchants in Rawl'kha are already annoying enough.

Daedgaming

Abeille wrote: »

Daedgaming wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

ZOS is already working on it, so what is this thread for, really? Because they kinda look like flame bait (if it is not, I apologize, disregard).

Personally, I want duels to be introduced in an immersive way instead of just as an "invite to duel" option. I mean, if you start fighting your friend in the middle of a town IRL, you would probably be arrested. So, if they go for the "invite to duel" option, I would expect the npcs (including guards) to react to the fight, which would force people who want to duel do look for more secluded places. I'm already not a fan of the AoE spamming in towns as it is. I also hope ZOS goes for a public arena of some kind, where other people could go watch the duels and place bets.

That would break the game in so many ways. I liked how World of Warcraft did it, you could duel outside of cities but you could not duel inside, the game wouldn't let you.

That would be fine by me. All the bright effects while I'm trying to talk to the guild merchants in Rawl'kha are already annoying enough.

And that is why I murder npcs for a living. lol, and you think im joking haha

Curtdogg47

I'd be down for this type of system! And it makes sense to have. Where do people duel now? I have had random people message me to duel. But I just figured it was some type of setup. And I'd just get jumped by a group and just made fun of by a bunch of ***! If however there are or is a group that duels in the manner you have said and is about helping people get better I sure would like to duel and learn from these types of people.

Daedgaming

Curtdogg47 wrote: »

I'd be down for this type of system! And it makes sense to have. Where do people duel now? I have had random people message me to duel. But I just figured it was some type of setup. And I'd just get jumped by a group and just made fun of by a bunch of ***! If however there are or is a group that duels in the manner you have said and is about helping people get better I sure would like to duel and learn from these types of people.

There are, however you are 100% correct to be afraid of that because a lot of the community gets absolutely ganked on occasion. That is why we need a normal dueling system, while I would still go into the pvp zone to duel people from other factions the type of dueling you are looking for most certainly should be based on your own faction in a safe environment where you dont have to worry about being jumped.

GreenGhostMan

Reading this thread makes me want to duel everyone right now. I'm jacked up!!

KingYogi415

In my maybe 80 hour of cryodiil I have had 2-4 real duels.

Most of the people zerg with their guild, fun but not true pvp for me.

Every time I'm in a good duel 30 sec someone from either side comes and ruin for me. I would have rather lost 1v1 then win 2v1. This has happened to me at least 50 times.

I feel no way for me to improve 1v1 which is super lame!

DenMoria

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

The ability to murder another player or even duel them and win does not make you a better player. It makes you a killer. Nothing more. Those who do not prefer PvP are not "bad players", they are simply people that enjoy the adventure more than the mayhem, murder and competition.

If I could solve more problems in ESO without having to kill everything in my path, I, personally would be far happier.

PvP is not my thing, but, when push comes to shove, I don't necessarily need to murder my opponent to make them miserable.

When you duel, it is a non death thing. You just lose. A duel takes place only with consent.

When you win a duel an emote should pop up for all to see "Walkinglegacy defeated DenMoria in a duel"

No repair loss, no death.

You're not understanding what a duel is. Is ESO your first MMORPG?

Agree and yes. Sorry. I don't understand the "duel" concept I guess. Honestly, I wasn't trolling. I don't even really understand what the term means.

attackjet

DenMoria wrote: »

The ability to murder another player or even duel them and win does not make you a better player. It makes you a killer. Nothing more. Those who do not prefer PvP are not "bad players", they are simply people that enjoy the adventure more than the mayhem, murder and competition.

If I could solve more problems in ESO without having to kill everything in my path, I, personally would be far happier.

PvP is not my thing, but, when push comes to shove, I don't necessarily need to murder my opponent to make them miserable.

It makes you a killer? Like a murderer? Like go to prison for 25 years?

No Zos please don't add dueling I don't want to go to prison

Seriously though wtf is this?

Samsayia

Honestly, I would be for friendly duels. Nord and Orc RPers would be all over that like white on rice. Hell, Magus RPers too. Anyone say magic duels??!?!?!

I was actually a bit surprised when there wasn't allowed dueling. Tryna RP a fight between me and another person and it's just not happening. Tavern night's in Riften would be a lot more fun if our bare chest brawlers could actually punch each other out.

The only thing I don't want to see in a dueling system is a tracker of how many duels you've won. PvP isn't all that balanced right now (not sure if it ever will be), so I don't wanna hear NB's bragging how many people they've trolled.

That and no fighting indoors. Take dat *** outside.
Only other thing about dueling is that is has to disable the attacking innocents, in case someone accidentally drops AOE and kills an innocent NPC standing by watching the fight.

yodased

There is such a simple fix for this I don't know why it wasn't implemented from the beginning.

Rules for duels:

1. Can't mount? Can't duel.
2. It's opt in, not out. You have to toggle yourself flagged for dueling. If you are not toggled on, the option to invite doesn't even show.
3. No repair no death. 0 health is win.
4. No leader board or win/lose tracking.
5. No battle leveling.

Messy1

I want duelin because I'm a RPer. Have any of you ever seen an RP duel? It would be so much easier if we could just challenge each other and fight it out. Usually the person with the biggest wall of text wins right now.

Kammakazi

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Pvers get so butthurt. We have little pve in cyrodiil so we should have little pcp (duels) outside cyrodiil. It wont affect people who do not want to duel at all. If some dude comes asking for a duel and call you "bad player" just ignore and move on with your life.

You PvP players QQ over passives and skills because you're too afraid to adapt, so ZoS of course holds your precious hands and "fixes" stuff, pretty much ruin the entire PvE side of the game. We have to deal with your QQ'ing every day.

Also you claim little PvE in Cyrodiil?


Cyrodiil has the BEST XP grinding spots in the ENTIRE GAME

DaveMoeDee

Moglijuana wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

The ability to murder another player or even duel them and win does not make you a better player. It makes you a killer. Nothing more. Those who do not prefer PvP are not "bad players", they are simply people that enjoy the adventure more than the mayhem, murder and competition.

If I could solve more problems in ESO without having to kill everything in my path, I, personally would be far happier.

PvP is not my thing, but, when push comes to shove, I don't necessarily need to murder my opponent to make them miserable.

I'm pretty sure every single player in the game has contributed to said "murder"...how else are you going to level up? lol. If dueling was implemented the skill threshold of PvP AND PvE would rise dramatically and just make the game more competitive for everyone. How is someone supposed to learn if they can't practice? Dueling would be a safe option for new players to hone their skills with friends and randoms alike without the fear of doing bad in open world PvP and then consequently coming to the forums to complain on how said PvP is too unbalanced and unfair.

People will still come and complain about balance if there is dueling. It would just make balance even more of a fool's errand as now you have to balance for PvP, dueling, MA, and PvE.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1

I like dueling.Its fun and the best thing its you can practice PvP.Another thing I like is ,if done like WoW,for example,is that it forms social hubs.Thats how many social hubs has formed in other MMOs I have played.People choose a spot to duel,then people start going to the spot to watch and duel.As times goes byes the spot ends up with lots of players doing different social activities,like RPing or just going to the spot to blow out some steam and have fun socializing with others players.

I hope they do duel in this game by invite/decline and outside of cities.Oh and of course that it can be done in the PvE overworld part of tamriel.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1

Now that I reacall,the best dueling system I have seen is in TERA.You can duel 1v1 or many vs many and the best thing? if you are part of the duel you can bet,if you win the duel you win the pot.

Katahdin

[snip]

the game doesnt NEED dueling
the game is doing just fine without it
Some people want dueling
Some people dont want dueling.

Because I realize there are people that enjoy dueling, I have been willing to compromise and I have stated that dueling placed in dueling areas where people can enjoy that game play are perfectly acceptable to me and that I prefer it stay out of the most of the normal PvE areas. However the more threads get posted and the more I read from the pro-duelers the less I am willing to compromise and the more I am leaning toward changing my mind to no dueling whatsoever in the PvE areas and restrict it only to PvP areas.

So Congrats pro-duelers you've further convinced me that this is a bad thing to have in game because it brings out the worst personality traits in people.

Why? Its simple.

-The pro-dueling crowd is toxic to the game community
-The pro dueling crowd resorts to insults and name calling to anyone that dares disagree with them
-The pro dueling crowd is unwilling to compromise. Its their way and only their way and no one else matters
-Duels enabled invariably result in griefing in one form or another.
-Duelers cant take no for an answer
-A simple toggle stating not to accept duels is not enough because if you have it set, the harassment begins
-Duelers will harass you, whisper you endlessly if you refuse to duel
-Putting duelers on ignore doesnt solve the problem, because the duelers will simply follow you spamming skills, interfering with your quests and enjoyment of the game until your only recourse is to log off.
-There arent enough ignore slots in the game to silence the duel requests

So now we will see the pro-duelers quote this post and further prove my point as to why we should not have dueling in the game.

Moderator edit - post edited for troll-calling

vladimilianoub17_ESO1

Katahdin wrote: »

[snip]

the game doesnt NEED dueling
the game is doing just fine without it
Some people want dueling
Some people dont want dueling.

Because I realize there are people that enjoy dueling, I have been willing to compromise and I have stated that dueling placed in dueling areas where people can enjoy that game play are perfectly acceptable to me and that I prefer it stay out of the most of the normal PvE areas. However the more threads get posted and the more I read from the pro-duelers the less I am willing to compromise and the more I am leaning toward changing my mind to no dueling whatsoever in the PvE areas and restrict it only to PvP areas.

So Congrats pro-duelers you've further convinced me that this is a bad thing to have in game because it brings out the worst personality traits in people.

Why? Its simple.

-The pro-dueling crowd is toxic to the game community
-The pro dueling crowd resorts to insults and name calling to anyone that dares disagree with them
-The pro dueling crowd is unwilling to compromise. Its their way and only their way and no one else matters
-Duels enabled invariably result in griefing in one form or another.
-Duelers cant take no for an answer
-A simple toggle stating not to accept duels is not enough because if you have it set, the harassment begins
-Duelers will harass you, whisper you endlessly if you refuse to duel
-Putting duelers on ignore doesnt solve the problem, because the duelers will simply follow you spamming skills, interfering with your quests and enjoyment of the game until your only recourse is to log off.
-There arent enough ignore slots in the game to silence the duel requests

So now we will see the pro-duelers quote this post and further prove my point as to why we should not have dueling in the game.

This remind me of the " save function for vMA discussion " where those against it had so many irrational and unrealistic reasons for not having the feature but at the end ,well ,we got the feature.Why?because the cons that ppl portrayed where so minimal and unrealistic that at the end the feature got green light.

I have to give it to this guy tho,he really make it sounds like the end of the MMO genre LOL

Moderator edit - post edited to match moderated content

attackjet

Katahdin wrote: »

[snip]

the game doesnt NEED dueling
the game is doing just fine without it
Some people want dueling
Some people dont want dueling.

Because I realize there are people that enjoy dueling, I have been willing to compromise and I have stated that dueling placed in dueling areas where people can enjoy that game play are perfectly acceptable to me and that I prefer it stay out of the most of the normal PvE areas. However the more threads get posted and the more I read from the pro-duelers the less I am willing to compromise and the more I am leaning toward changing my mind to no dueling whatsoever in the PvE areas and restrict it only to PvP areas.

So Congrats pro-duelers you've further convinced me that this is a bad thing to have in game because it brings out the worst personality traits in people.

Why? Its simple.

-The pro-dueling crowd is toxic to the game community
-The pro dueling crowd resorts to insults and name calling to anyone that dares disagree with them
-The pro dueling crowd is unwilling to compromise. Its their way and only their way and no one else matters
-Duels enabled invariably result in griefing in one form or another.
-Duelers cant take no for an answer
-A simple toggle stating not to accept duels is not enough because if you have it set, the harassment begins
-Duelers will harass you, whisper you endlessly if you refuse to duel
-Putting duelers on ignore doesnt solve the problem, because the duelers will simply follow you spamming skills, interfering with your quests and enjoyment of the game until your only recourse is to log off.
-There arent enough ignore slots in the game to silence the duel requests

So now we will see the pro-duelers quote this post and further prove my point as to why we should not have dueling in the game.

As someone who would enjoy dueling, I would love to duel people on my friendslist and people who suck at PvP just as much as I do. Its a learning a social thing, not just a bunch of random people telling you that you suck.

The community isn't really as toxic as you think.

Moderator edit - post edited to match moderated content

The_Tip

Id be down for a dueling system IF it incorporated more than just a 1v1 system, if it had the ability to be 2v2 or even 3v3 then Id be on board with it, Honestly this game was NEVER meant to be 1v1, so to cater a system to just that player base seems lame, and a waste of resources. However if you turn this into a group thing, with a 1v1 option, than Id definitely try it out.

The argument that people who are against it are "just bad players" is so insanely backwards in thinking, and so easily proven wrong in the other side of the debate it's kind of funny.

I played with plenty of amazing 'duelers' but in my experience most are just button mashers and animation canceling kids who have no social skills, so the idea of 'grouping' makes them wet themselves, never mind having to communicate tactical commands on a battlefield that takes half an hour to traverse if you let the wrong keeps fall into the wrong hands.

Those same duelers, who could drop kids 1v1 in seconds, or fend off a group of 12 players on their own in cyrodiil, when put into a dungeon to complete a daily, or run a trial, couldn't get past the first or second objective half the time.

I myself was pretty competent in pvp, sieging with groups large, or small. I dueled here and there but never really got too into it. Had some epic wins, and plenty of losses before dodge roll got nerfed. but give me a group of 4 and we wiped zergs of 20+ routinely. Finished top 5 in multiple 30 day campaigns, Still the huge keep sieges are uncomparable when it comes to PVP experience imo.

I was a very good healer in dungeons, but when it came to Trials and other serious endgame content, my PVP favored build hindered my ability to complete such content with any relative ease.

people who want "Dueling" I'd say for the most part aren't even all that interested in The Elder Scrolls, and that's inevitably why I don't really care if we do or do not get it. Id much rather have them focus on more PvE content, and improve Cyrodiil as it is now.

ColoursYouHave

The common argument against dueling is so silly. Its like saying you don't like electric cars, and you never want t drive one, so nobody should ever make them. And if somebody does make them, it is unfair to you because then you'll have to see somebody else driving one, and you'll have to deal with other people talking about them. Then sometimes these people will even go as far as to say that the people who want electric cars to be produced are selfish and are trying to control what everybody else does.

I understand that there are some valid arguments against incorporating dueling, but most of what I've seen is akin to the electric car metaphor. Seriously, why are people so against other people having things they like? What if PVPers argued that this game shouldn't have dungeons or trials simply because they don't like them, despite the fact that they can easily ignore them for the entirety of the game? That would be a ridiculous argument (although probably more legitimate than arguing against duels, since there are some very powerful rewards that can only be obtained through dungeons/trials, while duels would not need to have any associated rewards).

Cadbury

I'm neutral to the idea, but this topic has potential so...

Quantact

The ESO system of PvP is precisely as it should be. I understand the OP likes PvP combat, but there are tons of people out there who hate it. The OP clearly doesn't care about such people, but the game was designed both with those people in mind and with the OP in mind. Go to Cyrodiil, and you can kill people all you want. But, as I've extensively experienced in other games, there is a ton of troublemakers who live to annoy and harass other players. Being able to kill them, gank them, and otherwise harass them is made infinitely easier by a system that allows PvP combat everywhere. By sticking such combat specifically into Cyrodiil, Zenimax made sure to minimize such stuff to the extent possible.

I know my share of very very very skilled PvPers, and they spend a lot of time in Cyrodiil. OP, since you like PvP you should too -- but please respect the fact that some people are either not good at PvP or simply find it too competitive and stressful, and respect those people's right to be left alone to play the game without bothering or being bothered by anybody.

NoMoreChillies

I dont Duel, infact i am bad at PVP in general ( i die everytime i meet someone in IC)
Having said that, i would definately like to go watch some duels and bet AP/Gold on them.
Arena in Imperial City would be the perfect place, there is already NPC's standing on the walls cheering, just replace those with players betting.