Weapon ultimates - ESO Live: Thieves Guild Special #2

SorataArisugawa · February 2016

@Wrobel
What about weapon ultimates. Are they work in progress, or was it a "no at all"?

I do not understand this part.

Elsonso · February 2016

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

SorataArisugawa · February 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

Possible, but what is the state of the art?

Molag_Crow · February 2016

Just a few ideas if they ever added them in.

Bow - Taking Aim (Similar to the NPC's Taking Aim, but slightly quicker - not too quick otherwise you'd unfairly one-shot players in PvP, so they'll need the chance to interrupt it as you cannot move while casting it(?))
2 Handed - Whirlwind/Spinning Cleave (something like Bladestorm from WoW)
Dual Wield -
One-handed & Shield -
Destruction -
Restoration -

SorataArisugawa · February 2016

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Bow - Taking Aim (Similar to the NPC's Taking Aim, but slightly quicker - not too quick otherwise you'd unfairly one-shot players in PvP, so they'll need the chance to interrupt it as you cannot move while casting it(?))

2 Handed - Whirlwind/Spinning Cleave (something like Bladestorm from WoW)

Dual Wield -

One-handed & Shield -

Destruction -

Restoration -

[*] Destruction - Huge Fireball, Hail- and Thunderstorm (dependend at the element)

[*] Restoration - a strong hot heal AO effect, which says for 15 secs or something and Heals for 5000 every 2 secs

Turelus · February 2016

[*] Destruction - Winters Reach (or an elemental equivalent) that NPC skill is so OP it might as well be an ultimate.

Pretty sure that's the correct name for the skill. That damn Ice Carpet thing.

Molag_Crow · February 2016

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

CrowsDescend wrote: »

Bow - Taking Aim (Similar to the NPC's Taking Aim, but slightly quicker - not too quick otherwise you'd unfairly one-shot players in PvP, so they'll need the chance to interrupt it as you cannot move while casting it(?))

2 Handed - Whirlwind/Spinning Cleave (something like Bladestorm from WoW)

Dual Wield -

One-handed & Shield -

Destruction -

Restoration -

[*] Destruction - Huge Fireball, Hail- and Thunderstorm (dependend at the element)

[*] Restoration - a strong hot heal AO effect, which says for 15 secs or something and Heals for 5000 every 2 secs

Yeah that sounds good, some BIIIIIIG AOE or something similar to the Ash Titan's waves of fire

so many possibilities. Resto would have to have an awesome heal, especially if they want other classes (non-Templars) to be decent healers, as they've kinda said in ESO live.

Turelus wrote: »

[*] Destruction - Winters Reach (or an elemental equivalent) that NPC skill is so OP it might as well be an ultimate.

Pretty sure that's the correct name for the skill. That damn Ice Carpet thing.

Is that the one that the boss does in Imperial Sewers? the circular AOE that hits like a truck and slows?

Elsonso · February 2016

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

Possible, but what is the state of the art?

What does "state of the art" mean, and does it even matter?

From a game design, do they want to put a feature into the weapon skills that negates the need for class skills in a game that is based on classes? Doing this pretty much makes a classless stamina character. What does it mean when you come across a DK, NB, Sorc, or Templar where the class is nothing but a facade for a 2H or DW full weapon build? What happens down the road if the weapon ultimates become OP and part of a meta where class does not matter so long as you are suitably slotted with weapon skills?

Of course, the reverse could be true today under the opposite conditions. If you only use class skills in your build, there is no need to even equip a weapon. Maybe it does not matter.

Jura23 · February 2016

I would prefer adding new morphs to already existing abilities rather than adding new abilities. Who says every skill has to have just 2 morphs?

SorataArisugawa · February 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

Possible, but what is the state of the art?

What does "state of the art" mean, and does it even matter?

[...]

Did he mention what is going to happen? That matters.

lordrichter wrote: »

From a game design, do they want to put a feature into the weapon skills that negates the need for class skills in a game that is based on classes? Doing this pretty much makes a classless stamina character. What does it mean when you come across a DK, NB, Sorc, or Templar where the class is nothing but a facade for a 2H or DW full weapon build? What happens down the road if the weapon ultimates become OP and part of a meta where class does not matter so long as you are suitably slotted with weapon skills?

Of course, the reverse could be true today under the opposite conditions. If you only use class skills in your build, there is no need to even equip a weapon. Maybe it does not matter.

Why does it to be OP? The passives of the classes will be still important. And if somebody just want 5 skills of one weapon and the ulty of it... well do it.... sounds not that interesting for me, but... it is a free world...

Kendaric · February 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

I don't see that as a problem, I generally play without using class skills. And there are the guild ultimates already, that allow you to forego the class ultimates anyway.
There's absolutely no reason not to have weapon ultimates.

hydrocynus · February 2016

1h&s: that jumping skill from the Wrothgar mobs with devastating aoe damage when landing and applying taunt to all mobs in the affected area.

Elsonso · February 2016

Kendaric wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

I don't see that as a problem, I generally play without using class skills. And there are the guild ultimates already, that allow you to forego the class ultimates anyway.
There's absolutely no reason not to have weapon ultimates.

That's true about the guild ultimates. I have never been all that impressed by them, so I tend to forget they are there.

Jura23 · February 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

I don't see that as a problem, I generally play without using class skills. And there are the guild ultimates already, that allow you to forego the class ultimates anyway.
There's absolutely no reason not to have weapon ultimates.

That's true about the guild ultimates. I have never been all that impressed by them, so I tend to forget they are there.

Even if you dont use any class skills, you are still affected by your class passives, so you are still playing aour class in a way.

And I think its actually refreshing when somebody acts like just a soldier with weapon attacks. These ppl are rare anyway, so why not make their life easier.

Gilliamtherogue · February 2016

Here are some suggestions that me and my friends have been all discussing since the game released on what we'd all love to see as weapon ultimates.

Two-Handed: Whirlwind (bladestorm clone from WoW), a classic 2h ability that doesn't exist in this game, which is a crime against all things just and good in the world. A channeled ultimate that did aoe damage (likely 7 meters, since that's the reach of light/heavy attacks) over ~4-6 seconds. The type of weapon should augment 2ndary effects, akin to the Twin Blade and Blunt passive. I.e, axes have a stacking bleed for each strike landed in succession on an enemy, maces sunder armor by a flat amount that stacks per hit, and swords ramp up in damage the more they land. You'd be locked in place with the base skill, and one morph would allow you to move at normal cast speed (think its 25% of base move speed while channeling/casting a spell?) and snared enemies hit, and the other morph could be extended duration or perhaps mitigation per enemy hit for a short time after (to support bruiser play styles/pvp)

Destruction staff: Master of the Elements, call upon the latent energies within your staff and deal damage type based on what type (fire, ice, or lightning) in a large area around you. The effect would be something like an 8m radius AoE that was bound to the caster, so if you move, it moves, but is an instant cast ability so you can do other things while its active. Each element would be unique, lightning would be a lightning storm that comes down from a storm cloud or something, periodically zapping any enemy within the radius, frost would be a blizzard that engulfs the area, slowing and dealing moderate damage to things within, and flame would cover the ground around you in a blazing hellfire, burning anything near. Morphs could be increased duration and radius for one, and the second could have a guaranteed chance to proc the element's secondary effect (burning, concussed, chilled) every damage source and adds additional damage to the base.

Restoration staff: Lifebinder, something like Remembrance but more focused on the staff rather than the templar. It wouldn't do to be a copy paste of the skill, so it should be a weaker effect that splashes a moderate HoT to anyone nearby the caster, but moves with them (think Jug of 1,000 Cups from Lili in Heroes of the Storm but with restoration magic instead of water). Morphs could be allies affected by the HoT gain Major Protection, and the other could be that allies that leave the radius, or if the effect ends, the HoT remains for an additional amount of time (think like Templar's circle ability that allows them to leave for a bit)

Bow: Rapid Fire, a channeled ultimate that locked the caster in place, only allowing them to turn in direction while firing. Over a brief period of time they shoot a continuous stream of arrows on a single target. It could either be a basic channel like Rapid Fire from Diablo 3 or it could be a string of attacks where each shot does additional damage with a unique shooting animation for each arrow fired. Morphs could be that the channel/shot duration is bumped up and the final arrow loosed deal bonus damage based on missing health or explodes or something, and the other morph could make it deal AoE conal damage but suffers a 5% damage loss for each enemy within it.

One hand & Shield: Intimidating Shout, pretty straight forward from the name (needs a really cool voice file instead of the basic /shout, would have to find the original voice actors for that though, or you could just have a male/female version and keep it constant regardless of character voice) that focuses around buffing your allies or debuffing the enemy (morph split). The base morph is an AoE taunt and applies Major Maim to all enemies hit by it for a short time. Morphs could be that allies near the caster all get their moral boosted and all hits with weapon attacks regenerate a small % of resources (magicka and stam please) for a while after the cast, and then other morph could stun or immobilize enemies affected by the taunt for a brief period (to offer viability in PvP to tank roles)

Dual Wield: This one we've had a hard time coming up with a really cool and iconic attack that really fits into the roll of this weapon type without feeling too close to the kit itself or straying too far from it. I'd personally love to see something like Killing Spree come, or maybe an enhanced version of the attack that mini boss from stage 5 round 1 of VMA does (frenzied blows or something?) Something with a large amount of attacks with both weapons that feels really mobile (jumping/teleporting around, or perhaps a lunge?) that has the potential to be a single target or multiple enemy attack. Other thoughts were something like weapons master that summoned duplicates of your weapons and copied any stamina based attacks for a short while (think like the Morkuldin proc, but it copies your actions of stamina attacks) This could be a toggle that drained a large amount of ultimate for each copied attack, or could just be a large ulti cost that copied for a set period of time. I'm sure there are some better ideas for this weapon line floating around though...

Eirikir · February 2016

If this were a thing I would love an OP AoE version of Uppercut for the Two-Handed. Dark Lord style...

Dark_Aether · February 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

Possible, but what is the state of the art?

What does "state of the art" mean, and does it even matter?

From a game design, do they want to put a feature into the weapon skills that negates the need for class skills in a game that is based on classes? Doing this pretty much makes a classless stamina character. What does it mean when you come across a DK, NB, Sorc, or Templar where the class is nothing but a facade for a 2H or DW full weapon build? What happens down the road if the weapon ultimates become OP and part of a meta where class does not matter so long as you are suitably slotted with weapon skills?

Of course, the reverse could be true today under the opposite conditions. If you only use class skills in your build, there is no need to even equip a weapon. Maybe it does not matter.

But you can already do that:

Shuffle
Quick Cloak
Caltrops
Rending Slashes
Steel Tornado
ULTI Ice Comet

Rally
Vigor
Crit Charge
Wecking Blow
Executioner
ULTI Flawless Dawnbreaker

And that's just off the top of my head at work. That's a stam build for any class and it has all it needs.

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

I would honestly be happy with physical damage morphs of death stroke and radial sweep.

Jura23 · February 2016

Supersnake_Lx wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I would have to go back and look, but my impression of Weapon Ultimates is that, if we have them, it is possible to create a build where we have no need to be a class or to slot any class skills at all.

Possible, but what is the state of the art?

What does "state of the art" mean, and does it even matter?

From a game design, do they want to put a feature into the weapon skills that negates the need for class skills in a game that is based on classes? Doing this pretty much makes a classless stamina character. What does it mean when you come across a DK, NB, Sorc, or Templar where the class is nothing but a facade for a 2H or DW full weapon build? What happens down the road if the weapon ultimates become OP and part of a meta where class does not matter so long as you are suitably slotted with weapon skills?

Of course, the reverse could be true today under the opposite conditions. If you only use class skills in your build, there is no need to even equip a weapon. Maybe it does not matter.

But you can already do that:

Shuffle
Quick Cloak
Caltrops
Rending Slashes
Steel Tornado
ULTI Ice Comet

Rally
Vigor
Crit Charge
Wecking Blow
Executioner
ULTI Flawless Dawnbreaker

And that's just off the top of my head at work. That's a stam build for any class and it has all it needs.

+ you can also use soul assault/bats/ww

SorataArisugawa · February 2016

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

[...]
Destruction staff: Master of the Elements, call upon the latent energies within your staff and deal damage type based on what type (fire, ice, or lightning) in a large area around you. The effect would be something like an 8m radius AoE that was bound to the caster, so if you move, it moves, but is an instant cast ability so you can do other things while its active. Each element would be unique, lightning would be a lightning storm that comes down from a storm cloud or something, periodically zapping any enemy within the radius, frost would be a blizzard that engulfs the area, slowing and dealing moderate damage to things within, and flame would cover the ground around you in a blazing hellfire, burning anything near. Morphs could be increased duration and radius for one, and the second could have a guaranteed chance to proc the element's secondary effect (burning, concussed, chilled) every damage source and adds additional damage to the base.
[...]

We don't need a nother "bound to the caster" spell!!! Hope they don't do that. I want a cast the ulty to an opponent. The other part of your suggestion is good