Data Mine Costumes and What It Means For ESO (IMO)

MikeB · February 2016

With the latest data mining it appears ESO has produced another 30-40 vanity costumes on top of several other crown store items. I don't know what this says to everyone else but in my head I think they spend a lot of time making crown store items, a lot more than other nonsub mmo's, and not enough time finding bugs and fixing existing game issues. This is of course just my opinion and what goes through my head when I see all the crown store items with bugs still in the game since beta. This means, to me, that it's more about making short term money than the games overall health, well-being and longevity.

ESO really lacks an identify, it lacks class balance and it lacks in fixing issues that need fixing ASAP. What is your opinion when you see so many crown store items with so many game issues?

This post is my opinion and I know a lot of people still enamoured by ESO and ES fan-boys/girls will not agree with it, but please keep the comments civilized.

WalkingLegacy · February 2016

Meh from what I've seen they look like recolors with minor adjustments, something a small artist team can definitely accomplish. Especially with their horrendous costume system that puts generic premade bodies on your character. Yeah, not that much dev time goes into the costumes bro.

Kaynehusky · February 2016

You... DO realize that the people who find and fix bugs, and the people who design vanity items and stuff, are very DIFFERENT people, right? Designing content and fixing bugs are two VERY different jobs. They're jobs that happen at the same time, no less.

redspecter23 · February 2016

I'm cool with all the costumes I guess. I just want them to start working on some things I'd actually pay for as I'm not big into cosmetics. I want to see character slots, race/class change among other things. I'd probably be more interested in costumes if I could equip them piece by piece and color them. Buying a costume that has no custom color options isn't overly attractive for me at all.

Yes, they need to keep a constant stream of store items coming but they need to think outside the box a bit and add more than just pets, mounts and costumes. If someone has little interest in those things, they won't spend any money at all.

Aspi90 · February 2016

I am fine with all the costumes. I never gonna buy one, but when others do and so ESO keeps running I am happy

WalkingLegacy · February 2016

Kaynehusky wrote: »

You... DO realize that the people who find and fix bugs, and the people who design vanity items and stuff, are very DIFFERENT people, right? Designing content and fixing bugs are two VERY different jobs. They're jobs that happen at the same time, no less.

You do realize that maybe the OP is insinuating that the ZOS team employs more artists then QA and code engineers? Maybe they spend more leadership time talking about cash shop items over talking about the state of the game or what's broken and how to fix it.

With how long things have been broken and how long they take to get fixed, it is very plausible that their QA team is small and under funded.

GreenSoup2HoT · February 2016

Have you seen how many damn time's they have re-skinned that damn senche?

I wanna talk about something that is similar to this topic. I bring up Warframe a lot on these forum's because they have amazing developer's. However they too had a rocky start with ton's of bug's and boring gameplay, extreme lag/rubber banding etc. Overtime the game progressed into the beast it is now. It used to be only 4 frame's with hardly any quest's and weapon's... BUT NOW... they have raid's, space combat, pvp, 15+ frame's, ton's of end game content, ton's of cosmetic's, hundred's of gun's, the list goes on and on.

What i'm trying to say, Eso need's some time. I'm sure it get's frustrating when there is mega lag and broken stuff all over the place. To be honest i feel like i would get knots in my back returning to these forum's if i were them. There are 100's of player's in this game in an open world mega server which is a big goal for a company this size. This is no WoW for instance. We play this game everyday and expect changes way to quickly.

I complain just as much as the next guy on these forum's but i still enjoy playing this game. That's what really count's. Eso will turn out great just like Warframe did, we can't turn are back's on Zos so easily.

Try to avoid what's turning you away and you will have plenty of fun. For me, it's cryodill lag. It may be time i actually make a new character and take it slow till thing's progress in the right direction.

If you come to these forum's just raging maybe it's time you take a break from eso or pvp.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · February 2016

The costume design and modelling team are different to the coding team. The chances are the design team are well ahead of their project schedule and are knocking out costumes left, right and center to fill in time. The added bonus is they can be sold in the crown store so management are happy.For all we know what we are being sold could have been initial costumes for NPCs that didn't make the cut.

vyrusb23 · February 2016

DOOM TM

acw37162 · February 2016

As long I can't re-style a drop a piece of gear to a style I have learned or would actually like me gear to look like I would am cool with more costumes that actually look cool to cover the horrendous look of much of the gear in game.

Of course most of the costumes look pretty meh, also.

So what I should say is more good costumes would be appreciated as well s the ability to re-style drop set pieces of gear (not he iconic pieces for anyone about to have kittens over re-styleing monster shoulders, but everything else, yes)

Lysette · February 2016

MikeB wrote: »

With the latest data mining it appears ESO has produced another 30-40 vanity costumes on top of several other crown store items. I don't know what this says to everyone else but in my head I think they spend a lot of time making crown store items, a lot more than other nonsub mmo's, and not enough time finding bugs and fixing existing game issues. This is of course just my opinion and what goes through my head when I see all the crown store items with bugs still in the game since beta. This means, to me, that it's more about making short term money than the games overall health, well-being and longevity.

ESO really lacks an identify, it lacks class balance and it lacks in fixing issues that need fixing ASAP. What is your opinion when you see so many crown store items with so many game issues?

This post is my opinion and I know a lot of people still enamoured by ESO and ES fan-boys/girls will not agree with it, but please keep the comments civilized.

What my opinion is?- You forget, that people working in the art team are not those who would fix bugs. Even if they would not create new stuff for the crown store, this would not make a difference, because they are not those, who could fix bugs.

Lenikus · February 2016

As it was said;
The guys doing fancy pretty stuff are not the guys working in creating new stuff or the guys working in fixing what's broken.
They want to make more skimpy clothing for boys and girls (or mostly boys playing girls) so they can afford to have those guys working in fixing/creating, hey, imma buy those outfits myself, then

Lysette · February 2016

Lenikus wrote: »

As it was said;
The guys doing fancy pretty stuff are not the guys working in creating new stuff or the guys working in fixing what's broken.
They want to make more skimpy clothing for boys and girls (or mostly boys playing girls) so they can afford to have those guys working in fixing/creating, hey, imma buy those outfits myself, then

I got me a male argonian now - will be nice to show off all his pretty scales.

Acsvf · February 2016

I would much rather they release costumes than fix bugs.
I'm kind of disappointed with the costumes they do release though.

Thevampirenight · February 2016

I want those bosmer costumes!

NativeJoe · February 2016

2 different sets of people.

One is a under-appreciated programmer who never gets a pat on the back and whose job is never done. No creative out put, and putting his nose to the grind stone constantly.

the one's that create costumes are lofty hipsters with a couple of years of graphic design under their belt spitting out onto paper/modeling program whatever comes to mind. Commonly banking said crap; for later implementation if there is a request. A Low stress job ; so long as they just keep creating random ***. Then they assemble some as "per request" taking a few they stored a while ago. do a quick over view for absolutely crippling clipping (we know it has to be a quick over view because look at akaviri armor and khajiit) and they push it out the door.

Programming this game must me total hell tho. I mean, considering how broken things are like 24/7, and major breaks every 3 months or so...and the fact many of us know how to break stuff on our own.it must be a hard job. They need to do 2 things, give these guys a raise, and double their staff. if not triple.

Lysette · February 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

2 different sets of people.

One is a under-appreciated programmer who never gets a pat on the back and whose job is never done. No creative out put, and putting his nose to the grind stone constantly.

the one's that create costumes are lofty hipsters with a couple of years of graphic design under their belt spitting out onto paper/modeling program whatever comes to mind. Commonly banking said crap; for later implementation if there is a request. A Low stress job ; so long as they just keep creating random ***. Then they assemble some as "per request" taking a few they stored a while ago. do a quick over view for absolutely crippling clipping (we know it has to be a quick over view because look at akaviri armor and khajiit) and they push it out the door.

Programming this game must me total hell tho. I mean, considering how broken things are like 24/7, and major breaks every 3 months or so...and the fact many of us know how to break stuff on our own.it must be a hard job. They need to do 2 things, give these guys a raise, and double their staff. if not triple.

They do not need more programmers, they need someone, who comes up with an idea for game mechanics, which make zergs undesirable to the most. This would solve the problem with lag in PvP rather quickly. Without such a change, it will continue to be like it is, because it is not per se a technical problem but a game design flaw.

Recremen · February 2016

Nah bro it's cool, the new costumes are used alongside new setpieces in the new zones for the DLCs, which is a totally different animal than the programming team who works on the bugs. Like, in Abah's Landing there's loads of NPCs using the new Redguard costumes. So the datamined costumes are basically just previews of new DLC to come!

NativeJoe · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

2 different sets of people.

One is a under-appreciated programmer who never gets a pat on the back and whose job is never done. No creative out put, and putting his nose to the grind stone constantly.

the one's that create costumes are lofty hipsters with a couple of years of graphic design under their belt spitting out onto paper/modeling program whatever comes to mind. Commonly banking said crap; for later implementation if there is a request. A Low stress job ; so long as they just keep creating random ***. Then they assemble some as "per request" taking a few they stored a while ago. do a quick over view for absolutely crippling clipping (we know it has to be a quick over view because look at akaviri armor and khajiit) and they push it out the door.

Programming this game must me total hell tho. I mean, considering how broken things are like 24/7, and major breaks every 3 months or so...and the fact many of us know how to break stuff on our own.it must be a hard job. They need to do 2 things, give these guys a raise, and double their staff. if not triple.

They do not need more programmers, they need someone, who comes up with an idea for game mechanics, which make zergs undesirable to the most. This would solve the problem with lag in PvP rather quickly. Without such a change, it will continue to be like it is, because it is not per se a technical problem but a game design flaw.

Okay I'll take that job!

As my first act, any group that is now a large raid 4+, now suffers -10% to all resists, for every additional group of 4, they suffer an additional -10% to all resists. a full group of 24 therefor would suffer 50% more damage from any attack, and inevitable detonation or proximity det would do an additional 150% damage to such group members. (solves lag in many ways. because it makes bigger damage numbers, not more, so less for the server to compute)

To prevent keeps from being absolute focal points for where to take and have battles, I would implement a system which for non-owners of the keep their attackers within the radius of all resources of the castle including the towers suffer -1% to all resists for every 10 seconds they're in range of the debuff~instantly cleared upon owning the castle or taking the battle into the out skirts. in addition siegers will recieve a buff of +10% more siege damage for every 10 seconds they are sieging or are holding a siege (further dis-incentive for zergers because if ur group of 4 just hold up 4 siege weapons for a minute or so outside the door of a keep and u wanna wreak absolute mayhem , u can muahahahahaha) and u can therefor siege the castles faster. get in get ur shiznick and gtfo!

As my 3rd act. Anyone fighting in small groups inbetween keeps (groups of 4 or less) recieve 400% more AP.

xellink · February 2016

There's no suitable competition for them to worry about yet.

ContraTempo · February 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Programming this game must me total hell tho. I mean, considering how broken things are like 24/7, and major breaks every 3 months or so...and the fact many of us know how to break stuff on our own.it must be a hard job. They need to do 2 things, give these guys a raise, and double their staff. if not triple.

It's also not just a matter of plugging in new programmers and getting more output. The whole concept of plug and play programmers has been a wet dream of management for decades but those of us who actually do programming call it plug and pray because you never know what will really happen when you add someone new to the team. We do know there is always spin-up time while they get use to the coding methods of the team and learn where stuff is. We also know they can't be as fast/insightful as the guy who wrote the code. In some cases adding people actually slows down development/maintenance while they spin up. At the very least adding to a programming team is almost always a matter diminishing returns as each new addition adds less and less.

The people who will know best whether adding team members will be a good thing are the existing team members. They know and if they need staff they will be begging for it because they will feel overwhelmed. If they are resistant to new staff there is probably a good reason.

Losing familiar faces is also going to slow things down (unless the guy was a total roadblock and needed to go) and when you replace them all the above apply.

Managing a team of programmers and keeping them productive is tough and damn few managers have a clue how to do this well so a lot of teams have to succeed in spite of their management. For example, too many look at process instead of output. So if they see a guy/gal checking their phone, chatting, leaning back relaxing they get freaked but what they really need to do is see who is producing. If they produce a lot of work, who cares what their process is? If they are a slacker, who cares if they are nose-to-the-grindstone every time management comes around?

Sorry, I know that is long and preachy but it hits close to home for me. I'm gonna go kill some stuff now and forget about work. XD

JD2013 · February 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Nah bro it's cool, the new costumes are used alongside new setpieces in the new zones for the DLCs, which is a totally different animal than the programming team who works on the bugs. Like, in Abah's Landing there's loads of NPCs using the new Redguard costumes. So the datamined costumes are basically just previews of new DLC to come!

If that's true, then the Q3 or Q4 DLC may take place in Skyrim. Yay!

stojekarcub18_ESO · February 2016

If future DLCs (we're FINALLY getting DLCs) are as good or better than Orsinium, let them spurge efforts on easy money-making crown store items....plenty of people buy them religiously...pays for my gaming enjoyment.

Troneon · February 2016

Kaynehusky wrote: »

You... DO realize that the people who find and fix bugs, and the people who design vanity items and stuff, are very DIFFERENT people, right? Designing content and fixing bugs are two VERY different jobs. They're jobs that happen at the same time, no less.

Sorry but that is a BS excuse. Im sick of hearing that as a justification and reasoning...

They could quite easily hire less fluff devs and more performance / bug smashers / balance devs...or pvp devs...or content creating devs....or dungeon/trial devs...or ....or anything but the ******** crown store items.

Game performance sucks, bugs unlimited, exploits in game for months, lot's of lag issues, broken skills, massive class balance issues....and on and on...

NO ETA on scaling content to VR16 that is still stuck on VR14, no eta on new group content except one fricking trial....

BUT HERE IS A ZILLION MORE CROWN STORE FLUFF CRAP FOR YOU!! $$$$$$$$

NO ETA!

Troneon · February 2016

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Kaynehusky wrote: »

You... DO realize that the people who find and fix bugs, and the people who design vanity items and stuff, are very DIFFERENT people, right? Designing content and fixing bugs are two VERY different jobs. They're jobs that happen at the same time, no less.

You do realize that maybe the OP is insinuating that the ZOS team employs more artists then QA and code engineers? Maybe they spend more leadership time talking about cash shop items over talking about the state of the game or what's broken and how to fix it.

With how long things have been broken and how long they take to get fixed, it is very plausible that their QA team is small and under funded.

THIS ^^

Leandor · February 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Okay I'll take that job!

As my first act, any group that is now a large raid 4+, now suffers -10% to all resists, for every additional group of 4, they suffer an additional -10% to all resists. a full group of 24 therefor would suffer 50% more damage from any attack, and inevitable detonation or proximity det would do an additional 150% damage to such group members. (solves lag in many ways. because it makes bigger damage numbers, not more, so less for the server to compute)

To prevent keeps from being absolute focal points for where to take and have battles, I would implement a system which for non-owners of the keep their attackers within the radius of all resources of the castle including the towers suffer -1% to all resists for every 10 seconds they're in range of the debuff~instantly cleared upon owning the castle or taking the battle into the out skirts. in addition siegers will recieve a buff of +10% more siege damage for every 10 seconds they are sieging or are holding a siege (further dis-incentive for zergers because if ur group of 4 just hold up 4 siege weapons for a minute or so outside the door of a keep and u wanna wreak absolute mayhem , u can muahahahahaha) and u can therefor siege the castles faster. get in get ur shiznick and gtfo!

As my 3rd act. Anyone fighting in small groups inbetween keeps (groups of 4 or less) recieve 400% more AP.

where's my LOL button when I desperately need it...

moesmaker · February 2016

Another assumption thread.

\sigh

Marrtha · February 2016

Kaynehusky wrote: »

You... DO realize that the people who find and fix bugs, and the people who design vanity items and stuff, are very DIFFERENT people, right? Designing content and fixing bugs are two VERY different jobs. They're jobs that happen at the same time, no less.

First of all, this.

And then this;

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

Meh from what I've seen they look like recolors with minor adjustments, something a small artist team can definitely accomplish. Especially with their horrendous costume system that puts generic premade bodies on your character. Yeah, not that much dev time goes into the costumes bro.

This is why I don't buy costumes. They are not unique in any way. Sometimes they are mashed up pieces, but it was all already there. I cannot imagine it being hard to code..

And just because the guys who put out costumes manage to do more, in your eyes, it does not mean that the team working on bugs is small. The two tasks are quite different, and each take more time and effort.

But I cannot deny that they might be focusing on micro-transactions more than on the bugs and issues with the gameplay. It eventually happens to every game *cough* WoW *cough*.

Duiwel · February 2016

As someone from a country with a lot of "big cats" I can tell all of you that a lion, leopard and panther are all very very different animals and none have the same skull, jaw or body size ( species ). So the fact that they took a panther and put spots on it to make it a jaguar - that can work because they are pretty much the same size, leopards are much smaller. But a lion and a tiger? what were they thinking? Doing just a re-skin of that to "make" it that was a horrible idea, and spat on so much potential. They could have made the most bad ass lion or tiger ever!!

I really hope they make a Sabre Tooth tiger mount and do not do a re-skin but a complete redesign.

I agree with OP.

3 small fixes they need to address before Dark Brotherhood in my opinion:

I enjoy content but at least design new stuff don't just re-texture it to "make it something brand new!" It's not new, we are not stupid, you are lazy!

Breton Noble outfit is not even Breton it's a re-skin of the Orc Noble outfit...

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Have you seen how many damn time's they have re-skinned that damn senche?

I wanna talk about something that is similar to this topic. I bring up Warframe a lot on these forum's because they have amazing developer's. However they too had a rocky start with ton's of bug's and boring gameplay, extreme lag/rubber banding etc. Overtime the game progressed into the beast it is now. It used to be only 4 frame's with hardly any quest's and weapon's... BUT NOW... they have raid's, space combat, pvp, 15+ frame's, ton's of end game content, ton's of cosmetic's, hundred's of gun's, the list goes on and on.

Warframe is a different kind of game altogether. Its not an MMO, its a co-op dungeon grinder with procedurally generated maps. There are only 4 skills per class (frame) and theyre still nowhere near to being balanced. The weapon system is out of whack with top tier weapons being easy to get and most of the rest being crap MR fodder.

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

If future DLCs (we're FINALLY getting DLCs) are as good or better than Orsinium, let them spurge efforts on easy money-making crown store items....plenty of people buy them religiously...pays for my gaming enjoyment.

Why would they get rid of sources of income that probably faaar exceed what they get from DLCs??

Tavore1138 · February 2016

MikeB wrote: »

This post is my opinion and I know a lot of people still enamoured by ESO and ES fan-boys/girls will not agree with it, but please keep the comments civilized.

So you essentially would like to get a pre-emptive insult in at anyone who might disagree but then expect others to maintain decorum?

Overall I quite enjoy costumes and seriously doubt the same teams are going to be shading them and also trying to fix lag - equally since people proved too tight to support a subs model then money spent on crown items will contribute towards dev work for both DLC and core game enhancements/fixes... and more people to do costumes and mounts...