Eliminate Prox Det - Give us Magicka and Stamina Morphs instead

Talcyndl

As the title says....I'd like them to get rid of the Prox Det morph. It is (and even with the changes, will remain) a tool more useful to Blobs/Zergs/Etc. It permits the large group to charge it up and then place a huge burst of damage.

With the changes to Inevitable Detonation (that might allow it to be useful as an anti-Blob skill), it would be nice to open it up to Stamina builds. Especially with all the buffs that magicka (especially DKs) are getting.

Thoughts?

dantator

Talcyndl wrote: »

As the title says....I'd like them to get rid of the Prox Det morph. It is (and even with the changes, will remain) a tool more useful to Blobs/Zergs/Etc. It permits the large group to charge it up and then place a huge burst of damage.

With the changes to Inevitable Detonation (that might allow it to be useful as an anti-Blob skill), it would be nice to open it up to Stamina builds. Especially with all the buffs that magicka (especially DKs) are getting.

Thoughts?

Ya, but at least 8 man groups have a higher chance against 24 man groups with the new sets, aoe skill changes, and proxi buff. So, imo, it will benefit smaller groups more.

Mojmir

Then no one would play PvP+D

Jsmalls

I'll take a Magicka version of vigor and caltrops while you're at it (mutagen is limited to a resto staff, vigor is boundless, could legit drop a resto staff entirely in pvp if that skill had a Magicka version)

DannyLV702

I just now started using proxy det (after being a long time user of inevitable det) in conjunction with daedric mines to keep NBs pressured. Both are great morphs with their ups and downs. Purge is a real big problem when deing against those "blobs" though. Too OP on my opinion

Elong

Just get rid of the skill period.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Zergballs and professional blobspam groups would cry so hard if ZOS removed prox det, they are already theorycrafting their vicious death + det + alchemist combos.

Prabooo

oh really... so WE WANT A MAGICKA MORPH FOR CALTROPS as well !!!

Derra

Can i have magica morph for caltrops, vigor, maneuver plox?

AddictionX

Please get rid of this skill if you're keeping meteors non-reflect-able

Make meteor reflect able but instead of it costing magicka to reflect a meteor it cost the same ultimate you used to cast it.

Lucky28

No thank you man. Prox det has in large part helped me to take out much bigger groups than my own. it does it's job.

Honestly i never got the complaints about prox det, the ball groups that rely on prox det are dumb as hell they literally go in a straight line. there is a reason they are called 'pain trains' because they do not deviate from their track. they are easy to exploit.

However, one change i would like is for Negate to Negate prox det again. i don't know when that changed but it wasn't a very good change.

Inevitable det is more useful as a single target rather than an AOE. because you cannot control where the person you put it on goes.

Master_Kas

No.

AbraXuSeXile

I wish the old proxy came back, full trains didnt use it often because of the cast time. It allowed us as a smaller group to get a proper jump without it being 8 god damn seconds.

PainfulFAFA

Turn det into a DoT

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Lucky28 wrote: »

No thank you man. Prox det has in large part helped me to take out much bigger groups than my own. it does it's job.

Honestly i never got the complaints about prox det, the ball groups that rely on prox det are dumb as hell they literally go in a straight line. there is a reason they are called 'pain trains' because they do not deviate from their track. they are easy to exploit.

However, one change i would like is for Negate to Negate prox det again. i don't know when that changed but it wasn't a very good change.

Inevitable det is more useful as a single target rather than an AOE. because you cannot control where the person you put it on goes.

I like this idea. Everything should have a counter and negate got nerfed so hard its barely worth slotting anymore. With the meta switching to magicka, negate will be more valuable. I like that you cant use purge against inevitable det but an ultimate should be an ultimate. You should be able to shut down prox det trains with negate as well as cleanse yourself of inevitable det by casting a negate over yourself.

code65536

What do you need proxdet for? You have steelnado.

Talcyndl

Magika Detonation was specifically added as a counter to ball groups (whatever you want to call the groups who tightly pack on crown to take advantage of the healing and AoE systems in the game). To date, it has utterly failed to accomplish that. Rather, because the Prox Det morph allows it to be precast on yourself (and by every magicka build in the group) and then 'dropped' on the enemy as you move through, it has become a signature skill of the ball groups. In fact, you can track them inside towers and keeps by watching the red circles move along.

The proposed change to the multiplier will not make a difference in that use. In fact, it appears that Prox Det will do MORE damage versus live as long as it hits 4+ enemies. So, the balls will continue to [mis]use it. That is wrong.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups. And some (even fewer) might have success against the REALLY bad ball groups. But that shouldn't be enough reason to keep a skill that on balance GREATLY favors the ball groups.

Especially because we are being given an alternative with the changes to Inevitable Detonation. That skill, cast on the enemy, will now explode when it is purged. That will hopefully (if used by enough people) make Purge more situational - rather than the spammed skill it is currently. And it is a unique skill in that regard. It is really the only player cast skill that actually threatens the ball groups with real damage. Nothing else comes close, even caltrops under the new changes to retreating.

It is also the morph that can't be abused by the blobs because they can't precast it on multiple party members and time the huge burst wherever they wish.

So, I think both morphs should work the same way (cast on an enemy and explodes at some point thereafter). And the more players who can counter the Blobs, the better. So, open it up to stamina users.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler what do you think? Or I guess we need to ask Wrobel.

Recremen

Derra wrote: »

Can i have magica morph for caltrops, vigor, maneuver plox?

Yes.

Master_Kas

Talcyndl wrote: »

Magika Detonation was specifically added as a counter to ball groups (whatever you want to call the groups who tightly pack on crown to take advantage of the healing and AoE systems in the game). To date, it has utterly failed to accomplish that. Rather, because the Prox Det morph allows it to be precast on yourself (and by every magicka build in the group) and then 'dropped' on the enemy as you move through, it has become a signature skill of the ball groups. In fact, you can track them inside towers and keeps by watching the red circles move along.

The proposed change to the multiplier will not make a difference in that use. In fact, it appears that Prox Det will do MORE damage versus live as long as it hits 4+ enemies. So, the balls will continue to [mis]use it. That is wrong.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups. And some (even fewer) might have success against the REALLY bad ball groups. But that shouldn't be enough reason to keep a skill that on balance GREATLY favors the ball groups.

Especially because we are being given an alternative with the changes to Inevitable Detonation. That skill, cast on the enemy, will now explode when it is purged. That will hopefully (if used by enough people) make Purge more situational - rather than the spammed skill it is currently. And it is a unique skill in that regard. It is really the only player cast skill that actually threatens the ball groups with real damage. Nothing else comes close, even caltrops under the new changes to retreating.

It is also the morph that can't be abused by the blobs because they can't precast it on multiple party members and time the huge burst wherever they wish.

So, I think both morphs should work the same way (cast on an enemy and explodes at some point thereafter). And the more players who can counter the Blobs, the better. So, open it up to stamina users.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler what do you think? Or I guess we need to ask Wrobel.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups

Wrong, currently proxy det is THE best skill to coordinate/time well to wipe out larger groups. On top of focused ultimatebombs (which are not up at all times). And not very few, basiclly every bomberbuild, and/or small to medium groups use proxy det for just that reason.

It's not only ballgroups/raids running proxy.

frozywozy

Master_Kas wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Magika Detonation was specifically added as a counter to ball groups (whatever you want to call the groups who tightly pack on crown to take advantage of the healing and AoE systems in the game). To date, it has utterly failed to accomplish that. Rather, because the Prox Det morph allows it to be precast on yourself (and by every magicka build in the group) and then 'dropped' on the enemy as you move through, it has become a signature skill of the ball groups. In fact, you can track them inside towers and keeps by watching the red circles move along.

The proposed change to the multiplier will not make a difference in that use. In fact, it appears that Prox Det will do MORE damage versus live as long as it hits 4+ enemies. So, the balls will continue to [mis]use it. That is wrong.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups. And some (even fewer) might have success against the REALLY bad ball groups. But that shouldn't be enough reason to keep a skill that on balance GREATLY favors the ball groups.

Especially because we are being given an alternative with the changes to Inevitable Detonation. That skill, cast on the enemy, will now explode when it is purged. That will hopefully (if used by enough people) make Purge more situational - rather than the spammed skill it is currently. And it is a unique skill in that regard. It is really the only player cast skill that actually threatens the ball groups with real damage. Nothing else comes close, even caltrops under the new changes to retreating.

It is also the morph that can't be abused by the blobs because they can't precast it on multiple party members and time the huge burst wherever they wish.

So, I think both morphs should work the same way (cast on an enemy and explodes at some point thereafter). And the more players who can counter the Blobs, the better. So, open it up to stamina users.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler what do you think? Or I guess we need to ask Wrobel.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups

Wrong, currently proxy det is THE best skill to coordinate/time well to wipe out larger groups. On top of focused ultimatebombs (which are not up at all times). And not very few, basiclly every bomberbuild, and/or small to medium groups use proxy det for just that reason.

It's not only ballgroups/raids running proxy.

I don't think you've read anything regarding the effect of inevitable detonation on purge spammers that @Talcyndl brought, to bring a huge counter that is by far much better than prox det morph for lower amount of players amiright ?

Inevitable dets + Vicious Death sets + Ice Comets = gg ballgroups who wanna stack at all cost.

Now just remove proximity so ballgroups stop using it to give them an edge, which as Talcyndl pointed out, was supposed to be an ANTI-BLOB skil in a first time, and bring a stamina morph.

Lucky28

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Magika Detonation was specifically added as a counter to ball groups (whatever you want to call the groups who tightly pack on crown to take advantage of the healing and AoE systems in the game). To date, it has utterly failed to accomplish that. Rather, because the Prox Det morph allows it to be precast on yourself (and by every magicka build in the group) and then 'dropped' on the enemy as you move through, it has become a signature skill of the ball groups. In fact, you can track them inside towers and keeps by watching the red circles move along.

The proposed change to the multiplier will not make a difference in that use. In fact, it appears that Prox Det will do MORE damage versus live as long as it hits 4+ enemies. So, the balls will continue to [mis]use it. That is wrong.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups. And some (even fewer) might have success against the REALLY bad ball groups. But that shouldn't be enough reason to keep a skill that on balance GREATLY favors the ball groups.

Especially because we are being given an alternative with the changes to Inevitable Detonation. That skill, cast on the enemy, will now explode when it is purged. That will hopefully (if used by enough people) make Purge more situational - rather than the spammed skill it is currently. And it is a unique skill in that regard. It is really the only player cast skill that actually threatens the ball groups with real damage. Nothing else comes close, even caltrops under the new changes to retreating.

It is also the morph that can't be abused by the blobs because they can't precast it on multiple party members and time the huge burst wherever they wish.

So, I think both morphs should work the same way (cast on an enemy and explodes at some point thereafter). And the more players who can counter the Blobs, the better. So, open it up to stamina users.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler what do you think? Or I guess we need to ask Wrobel.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups

Wrong, currently proxy det is THE best skill to coordinate/time well to wipe out larger groups. On top of focused ultimatebombs (which are not up at all times). And not very few, basiclly every bomberbuild, and/or small to medium groups use proxy det for just that reason.

It's not only ballgroups/raids running proxy.

I don't think you've read anything regarding the effect of inevitable detonation on purge spammers that @Talcyndl brought, to bring a huge counter that is by far much better than prox det morph for lower amount of players amiright ?

Inevitable dets + Vicious Death sets + Ice Comets = gg ballgroups who wanna stack at all cost.

Now just remove proximity so ballgroups stop using it to give them an edge, which as Talcyndl pointed out, was supposed to be an ANTI-BLOB skil in a first time, and bring a stamina morph.

I don't use Inevitable det and i don't want to use it. Prox det suits my style of play even tho i seldom run in a group. so no, don't get rid of it because you're *** with people play styles.

Just get rid of AOE caps.

frozywozy

Lucky28 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Magika Detonation was specifically added as a counter to ball groups (whatever you want to call the groups who tightly pack on crown to take advantage of the healing and AoE systems in the game). To date, it has utterly failed to accomplish that. Rather, because the Prox Det morph allows it to be precast on yourself (and by every magicka build in the group) and then 'dropped' on the enemy as you move through, it has become a signature skill of the ball groups. In fact, you can track them inside towers and keeps by watching the red circles move along.

The proposed change to the multiplier will not make a difference in that use. In fact, it appears that Prox Det will do MORE damage versus live as long as it hits 4+ enemies. So, the balls will continue to [mis]use it. That is wrong.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups. And some (even fewer) might have success against the REALLY bad ball groups. But that shouldn't be enough reason to keep a skill that on balance GREATLY favors the ball groups.

Especially because we are being given an alternative with the changes to Inevitable Detonation. That skill, cast on the enemy, will now explode when it is purged. That will hopefully (if used by enough people) make Purge more situational - rather than the spammed skill it is currently. And it is a unique skill in that regard. It is really the only player cast skill that actually threatens the ball groups with real damage. Nothing else comes close, even caltrops under the new changes to retreating.

It is also the morph that can't be abused by the blobs because they can't precast it on multiple party members and time the huge burst wherever they wish.

So, I think both morphs should work the same way (cast on an enemy and explodes at some point thereafter). And the more players who can counter the Blobs, the better. So, open it up to stamina users.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler what do you think? Or I guess we need to ask Wrobel.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups

Wrong, currently proxy det is THE best skill to coordinate/time well to wipe out larger groups. On top of focused ultimatebombs (which are not up at all times). And not very few, basiclly every bomberbuild, and/or small to medium groups use proxy det for just that reason.

It's not only ballgroups/raids running proxy.

I don't think you've read anything regarding the effect of inevitable detonation on purge spammers that @Talcyndl brought, to bring a huge counter that is by far much better than prox det morph for lower amount of players amiright ?

Inevitable dets + Vicious Death sets + Ice Comets = gg ballgroups who wanna stack at all cost.

Now just remove proximity so ballgroups stop using it to give them an edge, which as Talcyndl pointed out, was supposed to be an ANTI-BLOB skil in a first time, and bring a stamina morph.

I don't use Inevitable det and i don't want to use it. Prox det suits my style of play even tho i seldom run in a group. so no, don't get rid of it because you're *** with people play styles.

Just get rid of AOE caps.

It's not a question of using it to suit my playstyle, it's a question of using it to counter zergs and ballgroups, as ZOS designed it for. Proximity does that, but it also helps them which is wrong.

WRX

All you guys praising inevitable is silly.

Even if a group is all stacked, inevitable isn't going to wipe everything out.

Proxy is needed, and delivers far far more damage, because your character is in the killing as well. And before anyone says "well you just die in a ball group" is either doing it wrong, or not good. You should easily get 3 casts in a ball group before you die, if not more. If they arent dead in 3 seconds, they wont be dying until next try.

zyk

Whatever the original purpose of proxy det was, it is now the main reason 85%+ of the playerbase isn't running a stamina build.

2.3 will help the imbalance between Stamina and Magicka, but it won't come close to solving the issue. The fact Roll Dodge, Sprint, Block and Break-Free are all off-bar stamina abilities makes balance in ESO extremely difficult to achieve.

Therefore Magicka builds will still rely on proxy to equalize damage and a stamina version of inev would make Stamina builds *way* too powerful.

PosternHouse

It would be pretty cool if Proximity Detonation and Inevitable Detonation became AoE damage over time effects that scaled up for each target. It could be really weak for one target, and really strong for ten targets. That would remove the instant death of getting bombed by a large group with proximity detonations loaded, but still make it good for burning down stacked numbers. It would also make it useless for bursting people down one versus one, which makes sense.

Master_Kas

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Magika Detonation was specifically added as a counter to ball groups (whatever you want to call the groups who tightly pack on crown to take advantage of the healing and AoE systems in the game). To date, it has utterly failed to accomplish that. Rather, because the Prox Det morph allows it to be precast on yourself (and by every magicka build in the group) and then 'dropped' on the enemy as you move through, it has become a signature skill of the ball groups. In fact, you can track them inside towers and keeps by watching the red circles move along.

The proposed change to the multiplier will not make a difference in that use. In fact, it appears that Prox Det will do MORE damage versus live as long as it hits 4+ enemies. So, the balls will continue to [mis]use it. That is wrong.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups. And some (even fewer) might have success against the REALLY bad ball groups. But that shouldn't be enough reason to keep a skill that on balance GREATLY favors the ball groups.

Especially because we are being given an alternative with the changes to Inevitable Detonation. That skill, cast on the enemy, will now explode when it is purged. That will hopefully (if used by enough people) make Purge more situational - rather than the spammed skill it is currently. And it is a unique skill in that regard. It is really the only player cast skill that actually threatens the ball groups with real damage. Nothing else comes close, even caltrops under the new changes to retreating.

It is also the morph that can't be abused by the blobs because they can't precast it on multiple party members and time the huge burst wherever they wish.

So, I think both morphs should work the same way (cast on an enemy and explodes at some point thereafter). And the more players who can counter the Blobs, the better. So, open it up to stamina users.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler what do you think? Or I guess we need to ask Wrobel.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups

Wrong, currently proxy det is THE best skill to coordinate/time well to wipe out larger groups. On top of focused ultimatebombs (which are not up at all times). And not very few, basiclly every bomberbuild, and/or small to medium groups use proxy det for just that reason.

It's not only ballgroups/raids running proxy.

I don't think you've read anything regarding the effect of inevitable detonation on purge spammers that @Talcyndl brought, to bring a huge counter that is by far much better than prox det morph for lower amount of players amiright ?

Inevitable dets + Vicious Death sets + Ice Comets = gg ballgroups who wanna stack at all cost.

Now just remove proximity so ballgroups stop using it to give them an edge, which as Talcyndl pointed out, was supposed to be an ANTI-BLOB skil in a first time, and bring a stamina morph.

Yes I did read them , and playing cyrodiil on daily bases both in smaller group vs bigger and in a raid. Every time a smaller group takes on bigger groups they use proxy det.

There are alot more using proxy det than inevtible other than a few burst sorcs (Azharan and Métamphetamine comes to mind ) But they use it on single targets for burst.

Proxy is far more used to bust larger groups than inevtible on EU atleast. Don't know how it is on the other side of the lake tough.

Talcyndl

Master_Kas wrote: »

Wrong, currently proxy det is THE best skill to coordinate/time well to wipe out larger groups.

And yet it is almost always utterly ineffective against the Blob groups. While it is used continually, and to great effect by them.

More to the point, the new changes to Inevitable will make IT the most useful. It can be cast at a distance into the Blob so no issue of having to survive the Blobs continuous AoE (steel tornado) damage.

Jura23

No thanks to Elder AoE online.

That being said, I think the changes they did to prox det are step in the right direction.

Talcyndl

Master_Kas wrote: »

Proxy is far more used to bust larger groups than inevtible on EU atleast. Don't know how it is on the other side of the lake tough.

You still don't seem to be understanding that I am talking about the NEW (not yet released except for on the PTS) version of Inevitable. Inevitable now is pointless as an anti-Blob skill. It has (at least the potential) to be much more effective in that role with the changes.

Lucky28

frozywozy wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Magika Detonation was specifically added as a counter to ball groups (whatever you want to call the groups who tightly pack on crown to take advantage of the healing and AoE systems in the game). To date, it has utterly failed to accomplish that. Rather, because the Prox Det morph allows it to be precast on yourself (and by every magicka build in the group) and then 'dropped' on the enemy as you move through, it has become a signature skill of the ball groups. In fact, you can track them inside towers and keeps by watching the red circles move along.

The proposed change to the multiplier will not make a difference in that use. In fact, it appears that Prox Det will do MORE damage versus live as long as it hits 4+ enemies. So, the balls will continue to [mis]use it. That is wrong.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups. And some (even fewer) might have success against the REALLY bad ball groups. But that shouldn't be enough reason to keep a skill that on balance GREATLY favors the ball groups.

Especially because we are being given an alternative with the changes to Inevitable Detonation. That skill, cast on the enemy, will now explode when it is purged. That will hopefully (if used by enough people) make Purge more situational - rather than the spammed skill it is currently. And it is a unique skill in that regard. It is really the only player cast skill that actually threatens the ball groups with real damage. Nothing else comes close, even caltrops under the new changes to retreating.

It is also the morph that can't be abused by the blobs because they can't precast it on multiple party members and time the huge burst wherever they wish.

So, I think both morphs should work the same way (cast on an enemy and explodes at some point thereafter). And the more players who can counter the Blobs, the better. So, open it up to stamina users.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler what do you think? Or I guess we need to ask Wrobel.

Now some (very few) players use Prox Det to bomb larger groups

Wrong, currently proxy det is THE best skill to coordinate/time well to wipe out larger groups. On top of focused ultimatebombs (which are not up at all times). And not very few, basiclly every bomberbuild, and/or small to medium groups use proxy det for just that reason.

It's not only ballgroups/raids running proxy.

I don't think you've read anything regarding the effect of inevitable detonation on purge spammers that @Talcyndl brought, to bring a huge counter that is by far much better than prox det morph for lower amount of players amiright ?

Inevitable dets + Vicious Death sets + Ice Comets = gg ballgroups who wanna stack at all cost.

Now just remove proximity so ballgroups stop using it to give them an edge, which as Talcyndl pointed out, was supposed to be an ANTI-BLOB skil in a first time, and bring a stamina morph.

I don't use Inevitable det and i don't want to use it. Prox det suits my style of play even tho i seldom run in a group. so no, don't get rid of it because you're *** with people play styles.

Just get rid of AOE caps.

It's not a question of using it to suit my playstyle, it's a question of using it to counter zergs and ballgroups, as ZOS designed it for. Proximity does that, but it also helps them which is wrong.

Inevitable det is mostly used as a single target burst skill while prox det is used more as an AOE. in my experience Inevitable det is not very useful as a zerg buster while prox det, is.

so again, no. there are other better ways to manage ball groups running prox det then getting rid of the skill.