Magma Shell (or the 'new barrier') is too strong.

Xantaria · February 2016

Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):

This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.

This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.

Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.

kit_sune · February 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.

Making this ability stronger than Barier while nerfing Barrier to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.

I felt the same way. This buff is a bad one. It's simply too powerful for anyone who plays pvp. Now the zerg meta may become a group of 24 stacking on top of dk's for that shield and these groups will have more then one dk running them. I play dk and I don't want this buff to be a thing

Xantaria · February 2016

skepticalfox wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.

Making this ability stronger than Barier while nerfing Barrier to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.

I felt the same way. This buff is a bad one. It's simply too powerful for anyone who plays pvp. Now the zerg meta may become a group of 24 stacking on top of dk's for that shield and these groups will have more then one dk running them. I play dk and I don't want this buff to be a thing

I'm a DK aswell and think the same.

Lexxypwns · February 2016

TRUTH

just make it ignore spell resist since the other ignores physical resist?

Kilandros · February 2016

The ultimate needed a buff though so we'll see how it plays out.

Erondil · February 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):

This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.

This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.

Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.

Its fine if there is a 6 people cap aswell

Kilandros · February 2016

Erondil wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):

This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.

This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.

Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.

Its fine if there is a 6 people cap aswell

I think there's an implied 6 person cap which is why I think it will also be fine.

Magma Shell for shorter duration but more damage mitigation; vs. Barrier for longer duration potentially less mitigation.

BullNetch · February 2016

makes me want to level a DK healer.

Bubbles!
Cauterize!

Joy_Division · February 2016

Ability needed something, but, yeah, I thought the same thing.

ThaJollabyb14_ESO · February 2016

As a DK healer I am stoked for all the new changes to test, but I agree that this sounds WAY too strong in a PvP environment. I will need to see how many shields this ultimate can hand out. Even with Battle Spirit's nerfs on shields, this would be outrageous without a target cap. I didn't notice a cap mentioned but I would hope for 3 making it terrific in 4 man dungeons but limited capacity in Cyrodiil and Imperial City.

Ishammael · February 2016

It just depends on how big the shield is.

Bashev · February 2016

Probably there is a cap of 6 people.

Xantaria · February 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

It just depends on how big the shield is.

100% of your health.

Ishammael · February 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

It just depends on how big the shield is.

100% of your health.

That's how much it is right now... we don't know (quite yet) that it remained the same.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Oh players already crying about the DK buffs.

POPCORN TIME !!!!!

Erondil · February 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

It just depends on how big the shield is.

100% of your health.

Keep in mind its halved in Cyrodiil, so 50% which for most groups is 10-12k shield. We're pretty far from the 17-21k healers and dd currently got tbh...

Xantaria · February 2016

Ishammael wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

It just depends on how big the shield is.

100% of your health.

That's how much it is right now... we don't know (quite yet) that it remained the same.

It did.

Ishammael · February 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

It just depends on how big the shield is.

100% of your health.

That's how much it is right now... we don't know (quite yet) that it remained the same.

It did.

OK.

the Barrier skill is now:
6 targets, 200 cost, +more ultimate per person hit. Approx 50% larger shield size. Still pretty good i think.

EDIT: Magma Shell is really, good agreed.

Alcast · February 2016

Ok guys get ready to stack DKs

Draxys · February 2016

Or you could, you know, actually ***-ing test something before crying about it

Wing · February 2016

Draxys wrote: »

Or you could, you know, actually ***-ing test something before crying about it

BWAHH! NO!?

honestly it feels like a DK version of rite of passage, a from of group defensive ult that also makes the user harder to kill.

comparing the two:

(Remembrance morph)

-Remembrance is cheaper (~120)
-a 4's channel
-has ~20% flat damage reduction for the targets its healing
-scales off of Magicka, Spell damage, healing done, and healing received on the recipient
-is healing rather then a shield and thus benefits from whatever mitigation your targets may have.
-prevents you from moving.
-grants 12k+ armor and spell resist from passive (this is the only passive between the two I am counting as its SPECIFIC to this ult and not tree skills)

(Magma shell morph)

-Magma shell is more expensive (~200)
-a 7.5 sec duration on the caster and no channel
-has damage reduction based on %health for the caster only
-scales off of Health and +Shield size CP
-is a Shield and thus not effected by any mitigation the group may posses
-allows the caster to move.
-does pitiful damage over time to enemies for 9 seconds.

I would say they about even out, but of course I'm not biased. Remembrance seems more effective and has much better scaling but Magma shell has the convenience of no channel / mobility.

but I think its good that these two Ultimate's do a similar things two very different ways.

Zinaroth · February 2016

Wing wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Or you could, you know, actually ***-ing test something before crying about it

BWAHH! NO!?

honestly it feels like a DK version of rite of passage, a from of group defensive ult that also makes the user harder to kill.

comparing the two:

(Remembrance morph)

-Remembrance is cheaper (~120)
-a 4's channel
-has ~20% flat damage reduction for the targets its healing
-scales off of Magicka, Spell damage, healing done, and healing received on the recipient
-is healing rather then a shield and thus benefits from whatever mitigation your targets may have.
-prevents you from moving.
-grants 12k+ armor and spell resist from passive (this is the only passive between the two I am counting as its SPECIFIC to this ult and not tree skills)

(Magma shell morph)

-Magma shell is more expensive (~200)
-a 7.5 sec duration on the caster and no channel
-has damage reduction based on %health for the caster only
-scales off of Health and +Shield size CP
-is a Shield and thus not effected by any mitigation the group may posses
-allows the caster to move.
-does pitiful damage over time to enemies for 9 seconds.

I would say they about even out, but of course I'm not biased. Remembrance seems more effective but Magma shell has the convenience of no channel / mobility.

but I think its good that these two Ultimate's do a similar things two very different ways.

You just compared it to the most useless ultimate in the game and concluded they are about equal...

Wing · February 2016

Zinaroth wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Or you could, you know, actually ***-ing test something before crying about it

BWAHH! NO!?

honestly it feels like a DK version of rite of passage, a from of group defensive ult that also makes the user harder to kill.

comparing the two:

(Remembrance morph)

-Remembrance is cheaper (~120)
-a 4's channel
-has ~20% flat damage reduction for the targets its healing
-scales off of Magicka, Spell damage, healing done, and healing received on the recipient
-is healing rather then a shield and thus benefits from whatever mitigation your targets may have.
-prevents you from moving.
-grants 12k+ armor and spell resist from passive (this is the only passive between the two I am counting as its SPECIFIC to this ult and not tree skills)

(Magma shell morph)

-Magma shell is more expensive (~200)
-a 7.5 sec duration on the caster and no channel
-has damage reduction based on %health for the caster only
-scales off of Health and +Shield size CP
-is a Shield and thus not effected by any mitigation the group may posses
-allows the caster to move.
-does pitiful damage over time to enemies for 9 seconds.

I would say they about even out, but of course I'm not biased. Remembrance seems more effective but Magma shell has the convenience of no channel / mobility.

but I think its good that these two Ultimate's do a similar things two very different ways.

You just compared it to the most useless ultimate in the game and concluded they are about equal...

I compared it to another ultimate that does something similar for. . .comparison, the idea that its useless is your opinion.

Xantaria · February 2016

Wing wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

Or you could, you know, actually ***-ing test something before crying about it

BWAHH! NO!?

honestly it feels like a DK version of rite of passage, a from of group defensive ult that also makes the user harder to kill.

comparing the two:

(Remembrance morph)

-Remembrance is cheaper (~120)
-a 4's channel
-has ~20% flat damage reduction for the targets its healing
-scales off of Magicka, Spell damage, healing done, and healing received on the recipient
-is healing rather then a shield and thus benefits from whatever mitigation your targets may have.
-prevents you from moving.
-grants 12k+ armor and spell resist from passive (this is the only passive between the two I am counting as its SPECIFIC to this ult and not tree skills)

(Magma shell morph)

-Magma shell is more expensive (~200)
-a 7.5 sec duration on the caster and no channel
-has damage reduction based on %health for the caster only
-scales off of Health and +Shield size CP
-is a Shield and thus not effected by any mitigation the group may posses
-allows the caster to move.
-does pitiful damage over time to enemies for 9 seconds.

I would say they about even out, but of course I'm not biased. Remembrance seems more effective and has much better scaling but Magma shell has the convenience of no channel / mobility.

but I think its good that these two Ultimate's do a similar things two very different ways.

You are forgetting a shield is worth much more than a heal. Yes Shields have no mitigation but you CANNOT CRIT on shields and pretty much all proccs and sets have no effect on them, which is stronger than any mitigation.

eventide03b14a_ESO · February 2016

Xantaria wrote: »

Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):

This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.

This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.

Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.

It's not too strong at all. It's a class ultimate it should be strong. I would actually like to see Negate fixed so that it's actually useful again, but I don't think this should be nerfed.

Cuyler · February 2016

@xantaria I can't remember is it 100% of HP for all in the group? or just the caster?

Xantaria · February 2016

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Magma Shell (Magma Armor morph):

This morph no longer grants a synergy to allies for a powerful damage shield; instead, it automatically applies the damage shield on nearby allies when the ability is used.
Increased the radius of the shield application to 8 meters from 5 meters.

This ability will simply be too strong. Just saying, I hope people will take a look.

Making this ability stronger than Barrier while nerfing Barrier (now max 6 people) to the ground and keeping all the other bonuses Magma Shell provides is just too much.

It's not too strong at all. It's a class ultimate it should be strong. I would actually like to see Negate fixed so that it's actually useful again, but I don't think this should be nerfed.

Well the problem about it is just that nobody in PvP will use Barrier in Zergs anymore because this Ultimate is doing everything that barrier does, just better and with special effects. If you buff one ultimate that was previously useless and nerf another one that was useful you have the same outcome. 1 useful Ultimate - 1 useless Ultimate. And I'm sure there are ways to make both of them useful.

Giving that morph 100% spell penetration instead was a good suggestion.

Xantaria · February 2016

Cuyler wrote: »

@xantaria I can't remember is it 100% of HP for all in the group? or just the caster?

Everybody receives a shield that is equal to his own maximum health.

remilafo · February 2016

silence... it's fine... DK's need this..

Barrier is still far better....

100% of max HP is not alot when considering my barrier shields for 40K...

Cinbri · February 2016

Barrier cap on 6 targets, Magma cap on 6 targets. Barrier add additional bonuses like ultimates return, Magma provide original bonus to dk, cost is equal. Barrier = Magma Armor.

Francescolg · February 2016

Combined with their ability to reflect mostly all (yes - 4 is a big number) projectiles, DKs will love to become a "battle healer".. (skill-less spamming/making of absorb shields)

We already have an armor from the ic-patch with a very similar (group bubble) shield proc..

We get sets as Trinimac's Valor, which can proc VERY often, if group/single bubbles are spammed (or proc, etc.)..

Now, imagine what a DK with Trinimac's Valor will do all day long in PvP, in his skill-full zerg group!

What if making all those bubbles could even be better and more effective than "classic healing" (spot heal, HoTs, Breath of Life, AE-heals)?

Have you guys at Zenimax ever played PvP? (if not, why not?)