Maw of Lorkhaj - Do you think it will be beaten on PTS?

Destruent

found1779 wrote: »

I do not understand why is the veteran mode going to be so difficult the majority wont be able to beat it why the hell would anyone want to spend real money on something they have no chance of beating

Why would anyone ever want to play only conten which is doable without any problems and with crappy builds?

Saturn

found1779 wrote: »

I do not understand why is the veteran mode going to be so difficult the majority wont be able to beat it why the hell would anyone want to spend real money on something they have no chance of beating

The point I think Alcast is trying to make, is that the veteran mode (i.e. the supposedly most difficult trial to date), should be difficult to properly reward the players that will sink hours and hours into beating it.

MoL will have a normal mode for those that cannot beat Veteran, so it is not content players won't be able to beat, as the normal mode scales all the way down to level 10. Also, you can get pieces from the gear in veteran mode by doing normal mode, so they aren't making it like MSA, where only the hard version has the good gear.

GeertKarel

The people are getting way smarter. AA/HRC were just on most part stack and stay with the group. When sanctum was first out people had to to learn how to dodge certain attacks the movement was very important. It wasn't a real dps race but it happened. There were a lot of certain tricks people have to figure out and try to avoid to survive.

Back then people weren't as good as now, all characters were a bit unbalanced. Now all characters are quite capable of doing good damage.

Nifty2g

GeertKarel wrote: »

The people are getting way smarter. AA/HRC were just on most part stack and stay with the group. When sanctum was first out people had to to learn how to dodge certain attacks the movement was very important. It wasn't a real dps race but it happened. There were a lot of certain tricks people have to figure out and try to avoid to survive.

Back then people weren't as good as now, all characters were a bit unbalanced. Now all characters are quite capable of doing good damage.

Agreed with this however this is only limited to about 60 or so people, the vast majority of players won't be able to beat this trial for a long while to come which will result in a nerf, and if it does get nerfed while maelstrom doesn't I'll be mad af

Woeler

To those asking why there should be a veteran mode that barely anyone can beat? ->

Because:
a. There is no competitive content for the best of the best besides old trials that have become just a dps-race.
b. There is a normal mode for the majority of players.
c. People are not entitled to beating everything in a game without serious effort.
d. https://youtube.com/watch?v=m8Km9om-8Zs

Recremen

Woeler wrote: »

To those asking why there should be a veteran mode that barely anyone can beat? ->

Because:
a. There is no competitive content for the best of the best besides old trials that have become just a dps-race.
b. There is a normal mode for the majority of players.
c. People are not entitled to beating everything in a game without serious effort.
d. https://youtube.com/watch?v=m8Km9om-8Zs

100% agree, and that's why I'm loving the decision to have a normal mode. Are you a lore nerd, fandom trash, or kind of casual? You can still have fun? Are you WORTHY? Take the Veteran Mode Challenge and find out. >:3

Valrien

Honestly it's going to have to be done in the first two weeks so it can be fully tested. It's probably going to be easy on the PTS and much harder on live.

GCVDJ11T

hmmm.... shouldn't this be about having fun trying to clear with your mates or is that just the NON-Elitist in me...

JLN

Valrien wrote: »

Honestly it's going to have to be done in the first two weeks so it can be fully tested. It's probably going to be easy on the PTS and much harder on live.

hope so

Xjcon

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

hmmm.... shouldn't this be about having fun trying to clear with your mates or is that just the NON-Elitist in me...

Some people want to gloat about their skill in a game. It's their right to a challenge.

Plintkabouter

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

hmmm.... shouldn't this be about having fun trying to clear with your mates or is that just the NON-Elitist in me...

That's actually the elitist in you. Elitists don't want to clear the content easy mode and farm whatever there is to farm. Elitists want to >try< clearing as to feel the challenge, which is what is most important to elitists.

Basically, if you crave the challenge you will become the best you can be, and when you become the best you can be you need the hardest content to fullfill that desire. Which is why all the elitists over here want a trial so hard it will take months to clear.

altemriel

Joy_Division wrote: »

Unfortunately, it sounds like it will be.

They say it's as hard as Maelstrom and that was beaten on the PTS.

I heard in another thread it's intended for people with 300 CPs.

It would be a shame that the new trial that we waited 17 months for was already farmable upon release.

I am not 100 % sure about that, but I think I read in some official article, that it wil scale to group leader`s level, so I am not sure if the 300 CPs are really true. Are you sure about that?

Alcast

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

hmmm.... shouldn't this be about having fun trying to clear with your mates or is that just the NON-Elitist in me...

That is why there is Normal Mode for guys like you.

SanTii.92

We will probably need the aura buffs sets first, since those are most likely going to be best on slot for trials. So, we have that.

Shunravi

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

hmmm.... shouldn't this be about having fun trying to clear with your mates or is that just the NON-Elitist in me...

That is exactly the reason people want it to be dificult. They want to have fun, not fall asleep or get bored.

Dagoth_Rac

Alcast wrote: »

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

hmmm.... shouldn't this be about having fun trying to clear with your mates or is that just the NON-Elitist in me...

That is why there is Normal Mode for guys like you.

But there is a *huge* gray area between casual PUGs running in green vendor trash just making it up as they go along and the Top 1% of players. The player base is not so black-and-white. If Veteran Mode is only completed by the Top 1% of players after months of progression, where does that leave the vast bulk of players? Normal is way too easy to be fun after 1 or 2 tries, if WGT/ICP/MSA are anything to go on. All content should be:

1). Normal - just about anyone can beat after a couple tries. Easy to PUG. No need for voice chat. Can make lots of mistakes and still recover.
2). Veteran - need very good builds, but not necessarily perfect min/max builds. Need experience with other players in group and need voice chat. Cannot be done by a PUG. Cannot be stack-and-burn to ignore mechanics. Can make one or two mistake and still recover. About 20% of players will beat given a month or two of sporadic attempts (i.e., a few times a week, not 10 times every single day in a pro raid group).
3). Veteran Hard Mode - need exceptional min/max builds. Need to run with nearly identical group every time so that you instinctively know exactly how other players will behave without even thinking about it. Any mistake will lead to a wipe. About 5% of players will beat given a couple months of constant attempts.
4). Leaderboard - for the Top 1% of those Top 5% doing Veteran Hard Mode to further compete with each other.

This gives compelling content to a broad swath of player base. Not the incredibly disparate, night-and-day difference between Normal and Veteran that so many seem to be craving. Having content that is fun in Normal for the Bottom 1% and boring for the other 99% and fun in Veteran for the Top 1% and soul-crushingly brutal for other 99% is bad design. You need to make the content fun and compelling for as many people as possible.

I would also argue that every boss should have a Hard Mode, not just final boss. But that is another discussion. The above is how I think it should work given existing game design.

RinOkumara

dro_rasec wrote: »

The first time i complete the vMA took me 6 hours, i don't think 12 persons can stay for so long time. Maybe a raid or two will be able to finish the trial but i doubt that everyone will be able to do it.

you underestimate our power lol

Alcast

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

GCVDJ11T wrote: »

hmmm.... shouldn't this be about having fun trying to clear with your mates or is that just the NON-Elitist in me...

That is why there is Normal Mode for guys like you.

But there is a *huge* gray area between casual PUGs running in green vendor trash just making it up as they go along and the Top 1% of players. The player base is not so black-and-white. If Veteran Mode is only completed by the Top 1% of players after months of progression, where does that leave the vast bulk of players? Normal is way too easy to be fun after 1 or 2 tries, if WGT/ICP/MSA are anything to go on. All content should be:

1). Normal - just about anyone can beat after a couple tries. Easy to PUG. No need for voice chat. Can make lots of mistakes and still recover.
2). Veteran - need very good builds, but not necessarily perfect min/max builds. Need experience with other players in group and need voice chat. Cannot be done by a PUG. Cannot be stack-and-burn to ignore mechanics. Can make one or two mistake and still recover. About 20% of players will beat given a month or two of sporadic attempts (i.e., a few times a week, not 10 times every single day in a pro raid group).
3). Veteran Hard Mode - need exceptional min/max builds. Need to run with nearly identical group every time so that you instinctively know exactly how other players will behave without even thinking about it. Any mistake will lead to a wipe. About 5% of players will beat given a couple months of constant attempts.
4). Leaderboard - for the Top 1% of those Top 5% doing Veteran Hard Mode to further compete with each other.

This gives compelling content to a broad swath of player base. Not the incredibly disparate, night-and-day difference between Normal and Veteran that so many seem to be craving. Having content that is fun in Normal for the Bottom 1% and boring for the other 99% and fun in Veteran for the Top 1% and soul-crushingly brutal for other 99% is bad design. You need to make the content fun and compelling for as many people as possible.

I would also argue that every boss should have a Hard Mode, not just final boss. But that is another discussion. The above is how I think it should work given existing game design.

That is why you can complete it on v5 as a v16 group if the veteran one really is too much difficult....however..I really do not think that after some days of learning this will be an issue...

PriorityBalle

If this trial get's beaten on PTS i dont see a point living anymore

Xantaria

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MMMmmmhhh...

I remember you saying that Vet Maelstroem was extremely difficult... especially on your stamplar.
I remember you and others mentioning sitting there 12+ hours in a row to learn and beat it.

Sure, you ended up beating it in a few days/weeks BUT... that's because you were alone in there and able to sit there 12+ hours in a row..

12 hours practice in a 12-man group already take several weeks, simply for organization issues (putting these 12 people together at the same time).

See what I mean?

That a trial takes longer to be beaten than a solo arena doesn't necessarily mean it is more difficult.

what?

I went in with 0 knowledge and it took me 3 hours to beat it without even cahnging any gear etc. It was a CAKE.