End Game Stamina Nightblade Build- PvE DPS (Updated for Clockwork City)

Gilliamtherogue

Azor_Ahaii wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

squinceybones wrote: »

Hey gill, i saw a post on reddit regarding 3 piece leki's jewelry as an alternative to agility for a fraction of the price. I'm currently running 3 piece endurance as a poor-mans alternative to agility (i don't mind the health). What's your opinion on bang for your buck stat wise?

Endurance is definitely the cheapest of the three, but provides no DPS stats, but sustain/survivability. Leki's is definitely cheaper but still kind of expensive if you're buying purple/gold jewelry yet has noticeably less stats. It'd be better off to just farm in Imperial City for the trophies a few hours here and there until you get them in my opinion.

I made the post squincey was talking about. 3 piece lekis offers just 400 stamina less and 60 weapon damage less than purple agility. A purple set of lekis jewellery will only cost 12k (set of blue only 7k), Lekis is literally the poor man's agility and will be great for dps. Agility set will cost 200k and all you get is 400 more stamina and 60 more weapon damage.

Not sure where you're buying Leki's jewelry for 12k for all 3, but if you can then sure. You're still forgetting % amps to the stats such as CP, racials, and/or class benefits. Leki's to Agility's is by no means a massive DPS loss for the average, but in the terms of game play I am used to, it will be quite large.

Azor_Ahaii

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Azor_Ahaii wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

squinceybones wrote: »

Hey gill, i saw a post on reddit regarding 3 piece leki's jewelry as an alternative to agility for a fraction of the price. I'm currently running 3 piece endurance as a poor-mans alternative to agility (i don't mind the health). What's your opinion on bang for your buck stat wise?

Endurance is definitely the cheapest of the three, but provides no DPS stats, but sustain/survivability. Leki's is definitely cheaper but still kind of expensive if you're buying purple/gold jewelry yet has noticeably less stats. It'd be better off to just farm in Imperial City for the trophies a few hours here and there until you get them in my opinion.

I made the post squincey was talking about. 3 piece lekis offers just 400 stamina less and 60 weapon damage less than purple agility. A purple set of lekis jewellery will only cost 12k (set of blue only 7k), Lekis is literally the poor man's agility and will be great for dps. Agility set will cost 200k and all you get is 400 more stamina and 60 more weapon damage.

Not sure where you're buying Leki's jewelry for 12k for all 3, but if you can then sure. You're still forgetting % amps to the stats such as CP, racials, and/or class benefits. Leki's to Agility's is by no means a massive DPS loss for the average, but in the terms of game play I am used to, it will be quite large.

Sorry I meant 14k and your weapons damage won't be affected by cp. Also even with a 20%. Max stamina boost the result would be 450 more stamina, not that much more really.
I would say lekis is the way to go unless min maxing is a must and/or you have a lot of gold.

Btw how much would do you think a tool tip of a stamina attack for example surprise attack decrease by losing 400 stamina and 60 weapon damage? It's not a rhetorical question, I want to know .

Gilliamtherogue

Azor_Ahaii wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Azor_Ahaii wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

squinceybones wrote: »

Hey gill, i saw a post on reddit regarding 3 piece leki's jewelry as an alternative to agility for a fraction of the price. I'm currently running 3 piece endurance as a poor-mans alternative to agility (i don't mind the health). What's your opinion on bang for your buck stat wise?

Endurance is definitely the cheapest of the three, but provides no DPS stats, but sustain/survivability. Leki's is definitely cheaper but still kind of expensive if you're buying purple/gold jewelry yet has noticeably less stats. It'd be better off to just farm in Imperial City for the trophies a few hours here and there until you get them in my opinion.

I made the post squincey was talking about. 3 piece lekis offers just 400 stamina less and 60 weapon damage less than purple agility. A purple set of lekis jewellery will only cost 12k (set of blue only 7k), Lekis is literally the poor man's agility and will be great for dps. Agility set will cost 200k and all you get is 400 more stamina and 60 more weapon damage.

Not sure where you're buying Leki's jewelry for 12k for all 3, but if you can then sure. You're still forgetting % amps to the stats such as CP, racials, and/or class benefits. Leki's to Agility's is by no means a massive DPS loss for the average, but in the terms of game play I am used to, it will be quite large.

Sorry I meant 14k and your weapons damage won't be affected by cp. Also even with a 20%. Max stamina boost the result would be 450 more stamina, not that much more really.
I would say lekis is the way to go unless min maxing is a must and/or you have a lot of gold.

Btw how much would do you think a tool tip of a stamina attack for example surprise attack decrease by losing 400 stamina and 60 weapon damage? It's not a rhetorical question, I want to know .

Leki's 3 piece (purple) = 933 stamina and 124 weapon damage, Agility 3 piece (purple) = 1400 stamina and 186 weapon damage. 467 stamina lost and 62 weapon damage, which is before amps. After you apply things like Medium Armor passive (12%), Major+Minor Brutality (25%) that becomes 85 weapon damage. If you run things like Flawless Dawnbreaker or are a Sorcerer, that will be higher. 467 is multiplied by whatever amps you have, for me I only have CP (14.67% @ 501 CP) and Undaunted mettle (only wearing Medium armor, so 2%) so that becomes 544 stamina. If you're a race with more stamina or have bonuses from class abilities that increases even more.

544 stamina and 85 weapon damage applied to SA's coefficients (CP allocation like mighty included) becomes 69.972 tt from stamina and 114.827 so a total of 184 (round down) damage off Surprise Attack alone. Apply this to the rest of our kit and it comes to be about a 300-500 dps loss without looking at things like Warhorn.

Azor_Ahaii

But then again in pve leki can be using instead of NMG, you could run 5 hundings, 3 agility, 1 Kena and 2 leki

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Azor_Ahaii wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Azor_Ahaii wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

squinceybones wrote: »

Hey gill, i saw a post on reddit regarding 3 piece leki's jewelry as an alternative to agility for a fraction of the price. I'm currently running 3 piece endurance as a poor-mans alternative to agility (i don't mind the health). What's your opinion on bang for your buck stat wise?

Endurance is definitely the cheapest of the three, but provides no DPS stats, but sustain/survivability. Leki's is definitely cheaper but still kind of expensive if you're buying purple/gold jewelry yet has noticeably less stats. It'd be better off to just farm in Imperial City for the trophies a few hours here and there until you get them in my opinion.

I made the post squincey was talking about. 3 piece lekis offers just 400 stamina less and 60 weapon damage less than purple agility. A purple set of lekis jewellery will only cost 12k (set of blue only 7k), Lekis is literally the poor man's agility and will be great for dps. Agility set will cost 200k and all you get is 400 more stamina and 60 more weapon damage.

Not sure where you're buying Leki's jewelry for 12k for all 3, but if you can then sure. You're still forgetting % amps to the stats such as CP, racials, and/or class benefits. Leki's to Agility's is by no means a massive DPS loss for the average, but in the terms of game play I am used to, it will be quite large.

Sorry I meant 14k and your weapons damage won't be affected by cp. Also even with a 20%. Max stamina boost the result would be 450 more stamina, not that much more really.
I would say lekis is the way to go unless min maxing is a must and/or you have a lot of gold.

Btw how much would do you think a tool tip of a stamina attack for example surprise attack decrease by losing 400 stamina and 60 weapon damage? It's not a rhetorical question, I want to know .

Leki's 3 piece (purple) = 933 stamina and 124 weapon damage, Agility 3 piece (purple) = 1400 stamina and 186 weapon damage. 467 stamina lost and 62 weapon damage, which is before amps. After you apply things like Medium Armor passive (12%), Major+Minor Brutality (25%) that becomes 85 weapon damage. If you run things like Flawless Dawnbreaker or are a Sorcerer, that will be higher. 467 is multiplied by whatever amps you have, for me I only have CP (14.67% @ 501 CP) and Undaunted mettle (only wearing Medium armor, so 2%) so that becomes 544 stamina. If you're a race with more stamina or have bonuses from class abilities that increases even more.

544 stamina and 85 weapon damage applied to SA's coefficients (CP allocation like mighty included) becomes 69.972 tt from stamina and 114.827 so a total of 184 (round down) damage off Surprise Attack alone. Apply this to the rest of our kit and it comes to be about a 300-500 dps loss without looking at things like Warhorn.

You didn't have to go through all that work for me, but thank you, it was very helpful
I'll buy a set of agility jewellery when I can afford it and want to be competitive in trials and pvp.

Azor_Ahaii

Actually the cost of leki jewellery is much lower than I previously stated, just bought a purple leki ring for 2.5k and purple necklace for 2k, therefore only 7k for full purple leki jewellery. I saw blue leki rings for 1k only too so full blue leki jewellery can be acquired for 4k. It's shocking how cheap this set is, the price is definitely going to increase once people realise how valuable this set is.

SanTii.92

Yo Gilliam, I'm patiently waiting for the update but I can't hold myself, need to ask a couple of things. First, Incap strike vs Flawless on front bar, Initial thoughts? And Flawless vs Comet on back bar for aoe pulls?

Second, since camo hunter seems completely out of our bars, and the change of Assassin's Scourge, Do you think moving this skill to front bar and proccing it at cd, a lá magblade, could be worth it? Considering the skill is properly fixed and scales with weapon dmge and weapon power.

Third, rapid strikes looks so strong now, will it be the go to spammable skill in every situtation, is surpirse attack dead but for pvp? I have zero experience with the skill, I'm a bit worried it will be a bit hard to adapt and don't mess my rotation.

If Rapid strikes is the case, Ma weapons seems mandatory, making us to choose between a 5 piece (Vipers?) or a Monester Set, alongisde Alkosh.

Gilliamtherogue

sAnn92 wrote: »

Yo Gilliam, I'm patiently waiting for the update but I can't hold myself, need to ask a couple of things. First, Incap strike vs Flawless on front bar, Initial thoughts? And Flawless vs Comet on back bar for aoe pulls?

Second, since camo hunter seems completely out of our bars, and the change of Assassin's Scourge, Do you think moving this skill to front bar and proccing it at cd, a lá magblade, could be worth it? Considering the skill is properly fixed and scales with weapon dmge and weapon power.

Third, rapid strikes looks so strong now, will it be the go to spammable skill in every situtation, is surpirse attack dead but for pvp? I have zero experience with the skill, I'm a bit worried it will be a bit hard to adapt and don't mess my rotation.

If Rapid strikes is the case, Ma weapons seems mandatory, making us to choose between a 5 piece (Vipers?) or a Monester Set, alongisde Alkosh.

I've already added pretty much all of the information you asked about to the original thread.

SanTii.92

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Yo Gilliam, I'm patiently waiting for the update but I can't hold myself, need to ask a couple of things. First, Incap strike vs Flawless on front bar, Initial thoughts? And Flawless vs Comet on back bar for aoe pulls?

Second, since camo hunter seems completely out of our bars, and the change of Assassin's Scourge, Do you think moving this skill to front bar and proccing it at cd, a lá magblade, could be worth it? Considering the skill is properly fixed and scales with weapon dmge and weapon power.

Third, rapid strikes looks so strong now, will it be the go to spammable skill in every situtation, is surpirse attack dead but for pvp? I have zero experience with the skill, I'm a bit worried it will be a bit hard to adapt and don't mess my rotation.

If Rapid strikes is the case, Ma weapons seems mandatory, making us to choose between a 5 piece (Vipers?) or a Monester Set, alongisde Alkosh.

I've already added pretty much all of the information you asked about to the original thread.

Ah, I see. I read the first paragraph and thought the guide wasn't updated yet, apologize.

About the changes, did you test if Assassin's scourge proc is scaling correctly with max stamina and weapon power? I've seen some tester saying it works and some that it doesn't. If it properly scales, it should hit fairly close to Relentless Focus, or I'm missing something else?

If I pick Smiting for pvp purposes, would it be too far off to have Inacap Strike on front bar for single target and Smiting for Aoe and opening fights? This is my thought process, Since we are losing the extra ult regen from Soul harvest, a cheaper aoe ult+tick could be somewhat comparable to the comet on short-med fights. Though, the real reason behind me trying to force this is that I really enjoy casting Soul harvest on live, going back to Flawless on front seems so boring t.t

Last, you mention Flanking as a potentially useful set, which I agree, and again seems so fun to play with, but nothing about Viper's. Did you have a chance to test that out?

Gilliamtherogue

sAnn92 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Yo Gilliam, I'm patiently waiting for the update but I can't hold myself, need to ask a couple of things. First, Incap strike vs Flawless on front bar, Initial thoughts? And Flawless vs Comet on back bar for aoe pulls?

Second, since camo hunter seems completely out of our bars, and the change of Assassin's Scourge, Do you think moving this skill to front bar and proccing it at cd, a lá magblade, could be worth it? Considering the skill is properly fixed and scales with weapon dmge and weapon power.

Third, rapid strikes looks so strong now, will it be the go to spammable skill in every situtation, is surpirse attack dead but for pvp? I have zero experience with the skill, I'm a bit worried it will be a bit hard to adapt and don't mess my rotation.

If Rapid strikes is the case, Ma weapons seems mandatory, making us to choose between a 5 piece (Vipers?) or a Monester Set, alongisde Alkosh.

I've already added pretty much all of the information you asked about to the original thread.

Ah, I see. I read the first paragraph and thought the guide wasn't updated yet, apologize.

About the changes, did you test if Assassin's scourge proc is scaling correctly with max stamina and weapon power? I've seen some tester saying it works and some that it doesn't. If it properly scales, it should hit fairly close to Relentless Focus, or I'm missing something else?

If I pick Smiting for pvp purposes, would it be too far off to have Inacap Strike on front bar for single target and Smiting for Aoe and opening fights? This is my thought process, Since we are losing the extra ult regen from Soul harvest, a cheaper aoe ult+tick could be somewhat comparable to the comet on short-med fights. Though, the real reason behind me trying to force this is that I really enjoy casting Soul harvest on live, going back to Flawless on front seems so boring t.t

Last, you mention Flanking as a potentially useful set, which I agree, and again seems so fun to play with, but nothing about Viper's. Did you have a chance to test that out?

The issue with Assassin's Scourge and most ultimates is not that it doesn't scale properly, rather it doesn't scale well. Ultimates favor high resource pools rather than high Weapon/Spell damage pools, which is why casters have Ultimates critting upwards of 50k, while stamina only sees ~30k max. Assassin's Scourge operates the same way, on PTS it's critting for about ~26k (need to do more testing) compared to ~35k as caster with Merciless. Overall it's still stronger than a SA or RS cast, but it's not currently worth casting after 4 light attacks and recasting the buff as it is for Caster. I'll still opt to back bar it since there isn't much of a reason to main bar.

Smiting is superior than Flawless anyways, even in PvE so your question is a bit irrelevant. 2% weapon crit is more DPS than 8% weapon damage, and Smiting's cast is absurdly stronger than Flawless. You mention losing ult gen from Soul Harvest to Incap Strikes, which in PvP may be the case if you take the morph, but in PvE you do not take Incap Strikes. I explain why SH is still preferred in the breakdown. I guess for PvP it could work to off bar Smiting for short/bursty fights, but I would take Tether instead for the stun and heal, while only losing a bit of damage.

Viper's is better than it was before, but it sacrifices too much power to run. All of the other sets I mention in my breakdowns add overall damage to everything in your kit, which is a whole buff, versus simply adding in a burst of damage. Viper's 5 piece pulls great DPS when you look at it in a recap, but it does not make up for what the rest of your kit loses by running it. The only way I'd see myself running it is if I was in a group where other players were running sets like Alkosh+Nightmother's+Sunderflame, and even then I would likely take Hunding's Rage/Flanking instead.

Bisenberger96

Hi Gilliam,
First of all, thanks for all your hard work on this build. My main is also a stamblade, and after switching to this build I'm pulling great numbers even without the maelstrom bow (in process of farming for it). I'm especially excited for the DB patch buffs to our class, as I'll finally be able to be competitive in trials, specifically vMOL.

Anyways, I just had one question for you. Do you think it's more optimal to run 5pc sunderflame or night mother's? Night mother's scales to v16, meaning we can put slightly better enchants on it and have slightly higher resistance (not a huge factor), and also procs on any ability that crits (so 84% of the time). Sunder flame clearly lessens phys resistance by more and also does damage when it procs, but requires a heavy attack to do so. Do you think the heavy attack factor still causes night mother's to come out on top, or should I start farming for sunder flame in CoA in order to use it as my main 5pc set? Also, sunder flame only drops with the infused or well-fitted trait from what I've read, causing our critical damage to go down, which is a huge factor.

Gilliamtherogue

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

Hi Gilliam,
First of all, thanks for all your hard work on this build. My main is also a stamblade, and after switching to this build I'm pulling great numbers even without the maelstrom bow (in process of farming for it). I'm especially excited for the DB patch buffs to our class, as I'll finally be able to be competitive in trials, specifically vMOL.

Anyways, I just had one question for you. Do you think it's more optimal to run 5pc sunderflame or night mother's? Night mother's scales to v16, meaning we can put slightly better enchants on it and have slightly higher resistance (not a huge factor), and also procs on any ability that crits (so 84% of the time). Sunder flame clearly lessens phys resistance by more and also does damage when it procs, but requires a heavy attack to do so. Do you think the heavy attack factor still causes night mother's to come out on top, or should I start farming for sunder flame in CoA in order to use it as my main 5pc set? Also, sunder flame only drops with the infused or well-fitted trait from what I've read, causing our critical damage to go down, which is a huge factor.

The enchant loss from v16 to v14 is only about 500-600 depending on % amps such as racials and whatnot, which is less than the damage gain you get from the 5 piece. Sunderflame is stronger than NM on single target, but on AoE NM is the winner for obvious reasons. Heavy Attacking every 8 seconds (or 10, idr the debuff duration) doesn't incur much of a loss, especially since the proc adds bonus damage to make up for losses. Paired with Mephala's and heavy attacks are going to be vastly superior if used every 8s. Sunderflame drops in; Infused, Divines, Well-fitted, Sturdy, and Reinforced. This may change next patch with the added new traits, but we'll see. That being said I'd only wear 5 sunder of 5 NM if I had all 5 divines, which I don't at the moment.

Bisenberger96

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

Hi Gilliam,
First of all, thanks for all your hard work on this build. My main is also a stamblade, and after switching to this build I'm pulling great numbers even without the maelstrom bow (in process of farming for it). I'm especially excited for the DB patch buffs to our class, as I'll finally be able to be competitive in trials, specifically vMOL.

Anyways, I just had one question for you. Do you think it's more optimal to run 5pc sunderflame or night mother's? Night mother's scales to v16, meaning we can put slightly better enchants on it and have slightly higher resistance (not a huge factor), and also procs on any ability that crits (so 84% of the time). Sunder flame clearly lessens phys resistance by more and also does damage when it procs, but requires a heavy attack to do so. Do you think the heavy attack factor still causes night mother's to come out on top, or should I start farming for sunder flame in CoA in order to use it as my main 5pc set? Also, sunder flame only drops with the infused or well-fitted trait from what I've read, causing our critical damage to go down, which is a huge factor.

The enchant loss from v16 to v14 is only about 500-600 depending on % amps such as racials and whatnot, which is less than the damage gain you get from the 5 piece. Sunderflame is stronger than NM on single target, but on AoE NM is the winner for obvious reasons. Heavy Attacking every 8 seconds (or 10, idr the debuff duration) doesn't incur much of a loss, especially since the proc adds bonus damage to make up for losses. Paired with Mephala's and heavy attacks are going to be vastly superior if used every 8s. Sunderflame drops in; Infused, Divines, Well-fitted, Sturdy, and Reinforced. This may change next patch with the added new traits, but we'll see. That being said I'd only wear 5 sunder of 5 NM if I had all 5 divines, which I don't at the moment.

Gotcha, looks like it's time to run some vCoA before the patch hits. So you'd opt to run Mephala's with sunderflame over Skoria with sunderflame in single target instances? Because you said in your OP that Skoria is better for single target. Even though a heavy attack weave would kill 2 birds with 1 stone by proccing both sunder and Mephala's, like you also said, Skoria is going to be constantly proccing because of the 7-8 dots we'll have active.

Turbatus

@Gilliamtherogue

So... let's say someone despised the appearance of the monster helms... what crafted parts would they choose?

NMG daggers, chest, legs, waist
Agility/endurance jewellery(maybe leki?)
Molag Kena shoulders
Hundings arms and helm?

And would you still keep precise over the new nirnhoned for the daggers?

Or what would you suppose? And how much dps would this hypothetical person theoretically lose?

Thank you, good sir.

Pirsius

Hello again Gill,

I was looking over the notes you made regarding the DBH update, and had a nagging question about the monster helm sets.

As things stand currently in the PTS, with this build switching to Rapid Strikes and Mephala's set dealing poison, will you no longer be using Nerien'eth as your primary monster helm set? And instead opt for Mephala's when in AoE situations, and Skoria in Single-target?

Gilliamtherogue

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Bisenberger96 wrote: »

Hi Gilliam,
First of all, thanks for all your hard work on this build. My main is also a stamblade, and after switching to this build I'm pulling great numbers even without the maelstrom bow (in process of farming for it). I'm especially excited for the DB patch buffs to our class, as I'll finally be able to be competitive in trials, specifically vMOL.

Anyways, I just had one question for you. Do you think it's more optimal to run 5pc sunderflame or night mother's? Night mother's scales to v16, meaning we can put slightly better enchants on it and have slightly higher resistance (not a huge factor), and also procs on any ability that crits (so 84% of the time). Sunder flame clearly lessens phys resistance by more and also does damage when it procs, but requires a heavy attack to do so. Do you think the heavy attack factor still causes night mother's to come out on top, or should I start farming for sunder flame in CoA in order to use it as my main 5pc set? Also, sunder flame only drops with the infused or well-fitted trait from what I've read, causing our critical damage to go down, which is a huge factor.

The enchant loss from v16 to v14 is only about 500-600 depending on % amps such as racials and whatnot, which is less than the damage gain you get from the 5 piece. Sunderflame is stronger than NM on single target, but on AoE NM is the winner for obvious reasons. Heavy Attacking every 8 seconds (or 10, idr the debuff duration) doesn't incur much of a loss, especially since the proc adds bonus damage to make up for losses. Paired with Mephala's and heavy attacks are going to be vastly superior if used every 8s. Sunderflame drops in; Infused, Divines, Well-fitted, Sturdy, and Reinforced. This may change next patch with the added new traits, but we'll see. That being said I'd only wear 5 sunder of 5 NM if I had all 5 divines, which I don't at the moment.

Gotcha, looks like it's time to run some vCoA before the patch hits. So you'd opt to run Mephala's with sunderflame over Skoria with sunderflame in single target instances? Because you said in your OP that Skoria is better for single target. Even though a heavy attack weave would kill 2 birds with 1 stone by proccing both sunder and Mephala's, like you also said, Skoria is going to be constantly proccing because of the 7-8 dots we'll have active.

@Bisenberger96 , You'd run Mephala's with Sunderflame or Skoria with Nightmother's. In AoE trash pulls it would be optimal to swap completely to that setup while going back to Meph+Sunder on single target. I wouldn't run Skoria with Sunderflame since it wouldn't synergize well. If you're already opting to HA then Meph will be proccing 100%, giving guaranteed dps vs chance of Skoria. Skoria simply beats Mephala in single target if you're not going to be HA'ing regularly (which Sunder would make you do)

Gilliamtherogue

Turbatus wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

So... let's say someone despised the appearance of the monster helms... what crafted parts would they choose?

NMG daggers, chest, legs, waist
Agility/endurance jewellery(maybe leki?)
Molag Kena shoulders
Hundings arms and helm?

And would you still keep precise over the new nirnhoned for the daggers?

Or what would you suppose? And how much dps would this hypothetical person theoretically lose?

Thank you, good sir.

@Turbatus , if you're looking for a no monster helm setup then you can try 5 NM 4 Hundings 3 agility. Run Sharpened, or Precise (if your group is well coordinated and running a lot of group buffs). Nirn is only really useful for PvP when fighting shield users, which will be pretty much always next patch.

The net loss would be quite large, fluctuating between 1-2k single target loss and much more in AoE.

Gilliamtherogue

Pirsius wrote: »

Hello again Gill,

I was looking over the notes you made regarding the DBH update, and had a nagging question about the monster helm sets.

As things stand currently in the PTS, with this build switching to Rapid Strikes and Mephala's set dealing poison, will you no longer be using Nerien'eth as your primary monster helm set? And instead opt for Mephala's when in AoE situations, and Skoria in Single-target?

@Pirsius I have already mentioned the answers to these questions in the gear and ability write up. Use Mephala's if you're doing Heavy attack rotations with armor sets like Sunderflame or have sustain issues, or use Skoria when doing pure single target and non condensed AoE pulls.

SanTii.92

Hey Gilliam, quick question, I'm working on my gear in advance for the patch, am I correct saying 2x Sharp Leki for 4-man dungeons and 2x Precise Hunding's for 12 man trial; where buffs and penetrations are in over abundance?

Thanks as usual.

EDIT. Just remember we'll use Ma weapons..

Turbatus

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Turbatus wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

So... let's say someone despised the appearance of the monster helms... what crafted parts would they choose?

NMG daggers, chest, legs, waist
Agility/endurance jewellery(maybe leki?)
Molag Kena shoulders
Hundings arms and helm?

And would you still keep precise over the new nirnhoned for the daggers?

Or what would you suppose? And how much dps would this hypothetical person theoretically lose?

Thank you, good sir.

@Turbatus , if you're looking for a no monster helm setup then you can try 5 NM 4 Hundings 3 agility. Run Sharpened, or Precise (if your group is well coordinated and running a lot of group buffs). Nirn is only really useful for PvP when fighting shield users, which will be pretty much always next patch.

The net loss would be quite large, fluctuating between 1-2k single target loss and much more in AoE.

Alright, so no Kena shoulders? Just straight up 5 NM and 4 Hundings? (Finally got 2 robust, 1 healthy agility set )

It's going to take some adjusting getting used to less stam recovery from swapping from endurance to agility though... But I'm only at 181CP, so hopefully the recovery from CP will help supplement the loss.

Gilliamtherogue

Turbatus wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Turbatus wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

So... let's say someone despised the appearance of the monster helms... what crafted parts would they choose?

NMG daggers, chest, legs, waist
Agility/endurance jewellery(maybe leki?)
Molag Kena shoulders
Hundings arms and helm?

And would you still keep precise over the new nirnhoned for the daggers?

Or what would you suppose? And how much dps would this hypothetical person theoretically lose?

Thank you, good sir.

@Turbatus , if you're looking for a no monster helm setup then you can try 5 NM 4 Hundings 3 agility. Run Sharpened, or Precise (if your group is well coordinated and running a lot of group buffs). Nirn is only really useful for PvP when fighting shield users, which will be pretty much always next patch.

The net loss would be quite large, fluctuating between 1-2k single target loss and much more in AoE.

Alright, so no Kena shoulders? Just straight up 5 NM and 4 Hundings? (Finally got 2 robust, 1 healthy agility set )

It's going to take some adjusting getting used to less stam recovery from swapping from endurance to agility though... But I'm only at 181CP, so hopefully the recovery from CP will help supplement the loss.

@Turbatus
Oh you said no Monster shoulders. You could do 3 NM and 1 Kena for more weapon damage, but if you're in a group with aggressive warhorn the crit is better. And yeah, resource management gets a lot easier around 300 CP, so aim for that!

Turbatus

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

@Turbatus
Oh you said no Monster shoulders. You could do 3 NM and 1 Kena for more weapon damage, but if you're in a group with aggressive warhorn the crit is better. And yeah, resource management gets a lot easier around 300 CP, so aim for that!

The shoulders aren't bad, it's the helm that looks like crap when you're aiming for that stereotypical assassin look.

So if it's now 3nm 1 Kena, 3 agility, is it 5 piece Hundings? It's neat how 1 little change can require so many other changes to balance everything out again and thank you for your patience.


On a side note, to work on my main dps which is SA/LA weaving (When not reapplying buffs/dots) I went to parse on mammoths in malabal tor (I'm EP) I only get between 10-14k dps (Literally just SA/LA with the 3 self buffs from 100-0%) depending on crit... If you find yourself not doing anything, think you can go do that and tell me your numbers? Or a better way to test my dps solo?

Gilliamtherogue

Turbatus wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

@Turbatus
Oh you said no Monster shoulders. You could do 3 NM and 1 Kena for more weapon damage, but if you're in a group with aggressive warhorn the crit is better. And yeah, resource management gets a lot easier around 300 CP, so aim for that!

The shoulders aren't bad, it's the helm that looks like crap when you're aiming for that stereotypical assassin look.

So if it's now 3nm 1 Kena, 3 agility, is it 5 piece Hundings? It's neat how 1 little change can require so many other changes to balance everything out again and thank you for your patience.


On a side note, to work on my main dps which is SA/LA weaving (When not reapplying buffs/dots) I went to parse on mammoths in malabal tor (I'm EP) I only get between 10-14k dps (Literally just SA/LA with the 3 self buffs from 100-0%) depending on crit... If you find yourself not doing anything, think you can go do that and tell me your numbers? Or a better way to test my dps solo?

@Turbatus

If someone is running 5pc NM in group then it is 3 NM 1 Kena 3 Agi 5 Hundings, but if no one is running NM then it becomes something like 5 NM 3 agi 1 kena 3 Leki's. 5 NM's is also swappable with Sunderflame for single target DPS, which will have much higher DPS results.

Pretty much, there's a lot of options. Find what works best for you, because not everyone plays the same.

I haven't found any good places to test DPS solo, I just test on trolls on the Rift for flat numbers to use for calculations or places like Wrothgar mammoths/giants. You could try getting a buddy or two (tank and healer optimal) and doing the Lurcher world boss in Wrothgar, it's all single target once the boss spawns and has minimal mechanics while still making you pay attention to the fight.

Royalbladez

LeifErickson wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Use the medium infused helm and medium reinforced shoulders, but work towards getting a pair of mediums divines as much as you can, and yes it will vastly outperform Kena as long as it's able to proc.

Each piece of medium armor is 1.5% crit chance as well as regen and cost reduction vs 2% stam/health/mag. 2% stam on most builds is under 1k, so it isn't all that impactful vs the crit.
Divines is .9% critical damage per, so 2 would be 1.8% CHD, which is quite a bit compared to anything else as I showed in my trait breakdown, but isn't going to make or break DPS.

2 Affliction would be a DPS loss since it can't come in precise daggers, but 2 Leki's could slightly outperform 2 Hundings outside of trials where Warhorn doesn't have as much of an up time.

Thank you so much for the help! Just one more thing: do you ever swap out Hundings for Maelstrom one-handers for a potentially more sustainable build?

Hey would 5pc hundings rage, 2pc valkyn skoria,2pc leki's dagger + bow be fine for vet maelstrom? just to get the bow also I haven't got full divines since haven't got mats to recraft all my gear to divines and make it all legendary.

Royalbladez

@Gilliamtherogue Hey would 5pc hundings rage, 2pc valkyn skoria,2pc leki's dagger + bow be fine for vet maelstrom? just to get the bow also I haven't got full divines since i have impen and infused on the skoria and 2 infused on the hundings with 3 divines but haven't got mats to recraft all my gear to divines and make it all legendar.

Gilliamtherogue

Royalbladez wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue Hey would 5pc hundings rage, 2pc valkyn skoria,2pc leki's dagger + bow be fine for vet maelstrom? just to get the bow also I haven't got full divines since i have impen and infused on the skoria and 2 infused on the hundings with 3 divines but haven't got mats to recraft all my gear to divines and make it all legendar.

Yeah that sounds fine, pretty close to what I use.

Royalbladez

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Royalbladez wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue Hey would 5pc hundings rage, 2pc valkyn skoria,2pc leki's dagger + bow be fine for vet maelstrom? just to get the bow also I haven't got full divines since i have impen and infused on the skoria and 2 infused on the hundings with 3 divines but haven't got mats to recraft all my gear to divines and make it all legendar.

Yeah that sounds fine, pretty close to what I use.

Thanks man, will you be updating this build once DBH drops?

Royalbladez

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Royalbladez wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue Hey would 5pc hundings rage, 2pc valkyn skoria,2pc leki's dagger + bow be fine for vet maelstrom? just to get the bow also I haven't got full divines since i have impen and infused on the skoria and 2 infused on the hundings with 3 divines but haven't got mats to recraft all my gear to divines and make it all legendar.

Yeah that sounds fine, pretty close to what I use.

Thanks man, will you be updating this build once DBH drops?

Gilliamtherogue

Royalbladez wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Royalbladez wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue Hey would 5pc hundings rage, 2pc valkyn skoria,2pc leki's dagger + bow be fine for vet maelstrom? just to get the bow also I haven't got full divines since i have impen and infused on the skoria and 2 infused on the hundings with 3 divines but haven't got mats to recraft all my gear to divines and make it all legendar.

Yeah that sounds fine, pretty close to what I use.

Thanks man, will you be updating this build once DBH drops?

The thread already has a lot of updated info throughout it, once DBH hits I will prune the outdated stuff to avoid confusion, but there's already ability and gear changes listed throughout.

Turbatus

@Gilliamtherogue

It's me again


So I got 5 NMG purple, 2 gold leki daggers (one sharpened one precise) leki belt, and currently bloodspawn shoulders since I don't have Kena yet (saving keys for db) I tried with and without macro usage just to compare, and either way it's the same dps on mammoths (5-7 seconds, 12-15k average, with occasional 18k depending on crits) after swapping from the hundings to NMG and from purple dagger mace to dual gold daggers, my weapon damage is about the same with a little higher crit. Slightly higher dps.

I can't really think of anything else holding me back other than only having like 165cp.

For mostly solo and maybe some pvp ganking here and there would you still use NMG over hundings? I'm not sure how well the NMG proc scales over to high cp players over raw weapon damage. I'm a broke little scrub so I'm trying to find the best medium gear wise for pvp and pve to make legendary.

Thank you for your patience!

Gilliamtherogue

Turbatus wrote: »

@Gilliamtherogue

It's me again


So I got 5 NMG purple, 2 gold leki daggers (one sharpened one precise) leki belt, and currently bloodspawn shoulders since I don't have Kena yet (saving keys for db) I tried with and without macro usage just to compare, and either way it's the same dps on mammoths (5-7 seconds, 12-15k average, with occasional 18k depending on crits) after swapping from the hundings to NMG and from purple dagger mace to dual gold daggers, my weapon damage is about the same with a little higher crit. Slightly higher dps.

I can't really think of anything else holding me back other than only having like 165cp.

For mostly solo and maybe some pvp ganking here and there would you still use NMG over hundings? I'm not sure how well the NMG proc scales over to high cp players over raw weapon damage. I'm a broke little scrub so I'm trying to find the best medium gear wise for pvp and pve to make legendary.

Thank you for your patience!

165 CP is really low for end game DPS, I wouldn't start expecting to break 20k until you get above 300 CP in normal fights. That being said, a lot of end game DPS is built upon group synergy and composition. The screens I have in my thread (with the exception of self buffed bloodspawn) are all in groups running more buffs than what I can apply myself. None of them are all fully stacked, but it goes to show the emphasis on team play and diversity with end game content (PvP is also included in this).

On top of that, the 10-20 second parses you're going to get on a 100k health target aren't really going to give you any real numbers that having meaning to you, I don't even look at over all DPS dealt to them, just how much damage a specific attack hits for so I can see if I'm headed in the right direction with stats and whatnot. Try getting a tank and healer for a Veteran Spindle Clutch, each boss fight in there shows potential for certain circumstances; the Zombie boss shows AoE DPS potential, the 2nd shows single target + decent duration, the 3rd shows how well you follow mechanics, the 4th & 5th are (smaller) AoE parses, and the final boss shows single target DPS against Daedra (the bonus weapon/spell damage against them shows through numbers).