Crest of Cyrodil

Xvorg

A simple question: what the heck is "melee dmg"?

http://prntscr.com/9s7rtk

physical Dmg? (like bow skill line?)
magicka Dmg? (like punct sweeps?)
close quarter dmg? (like Soul Harvest?)
ranged dmg? (like Flying blade?)

Please ZOs, enlighten me.

FlounderOG

Probably swords and ***.

Xvorg

FlounderOG wrote: »

Probably swords and ***.

It is a problem that has not been addressed.

In all fantasy gaming tradition, attacks are divided into 2 big groups

Ranged
Non-Ranged (Close Quarter)

Then we have all those beautiful terms we have heard over the years: fire, ice, lightning, poison, disease, holy, psychic, magic, etc... and other 2 that are basically the same: projectile and melee. The difference is that the first is intrinsecally related to ranged attacks (arrows), while the second is intrinsecally related to CQ (swords, axes). To clarify MOAR, there's no ranged melee or non-ranged projectile.

Basically, your defence for both is the same: armor/shield, while the other attacks do need a specific resistance (resistance to poison for example).

You can turn the attack of any arrow into a ranged poison (or, to be more specific a ranged poison projectile) if you apply some kind of venom to the arrow (since ranged and projectile have become kind of a synonym during the years). Nevertheless, if you apply the same venom to a dagger, it will not become a poison attack per se, but a melee poison (thus, to do dmg, you should consider both, the specific resistance to poison of the enemy, and his armor).

I have seen a lot of games using those rules over the years, and it works.


Then we have ESO (which in-spite of respecting TES tradition, does things on his own... unfortunately)

In ESO there's not such distinction between melee and projectile. We have physical dmg, magic dmg and elemental dmg. Physical dmg is covered by wearing armor, while magic AND elemental dmg are mitigated by spell resistance. At one side of that road, we have another 2 sources of dmg: disease and poison, which are mitigated by specific resistances (elemental, apart of being mitigated by spell res, also have some specific resistances), and it seems that both also have some mitigation based on armor, although I'm not sure. CPs does not help to clarify that since their dmg increase is grouped with magic (and that blows everyone's mind)

So, we have a skill like poison arrow, which does poison dmg. No ranged element added, and that's OK (or kind of OK)

But then we have this set which specifically talks about "melee dmg"

If we consider melee as only weapon skills (except bows and staves) , then we should consider flying blade as melee, while destro clech, having a shorter "range" is considered a ranged attack. And if you add something like magnum shot in the bow line, then you should probably end up running in circles around your dinner table.

But hey! There's MOAR, aaaand it has to do with class skills.

Let's take surprise attack as an example. It does accomplish with all the conditions: it is a physical attack, it is done in close quarters, it display an animation of a guy tearing the torso of an enemy and it is mitigated by armor... right? But then we have his sister skill, concealed weapon, which is no longer a physical attack, but a magic one, and as such, it is mitigated by spell resistance.

Even in-game lore does not mention melee

Well, I think ZOs should clarify that, or at least give some insightful tool tip regarding those terms.

Ffastyl

Melee damage constitutes damage within 5m of the target, or standard attack range for swords, axes and maces. It may also count 7m as attacks with those same weapons also reach that far. However, it may also check the weapon being used in conjunction with the attack as I have not once gotten a Ravager proc (on Melee hit, like Crest) on Bow attacks within melee range.

Xvorg

Ffastyl wrote: »

Melee damage constitutes damage within 5m of the target, or standard attack range for swords, axes and maces. It may also count 7m as attacks with those same weapons also reach that far. However, it may also check the weapon being used in conjunction with the attack as I have not once gotten a Ravager proc (on Melee hit, like Crest) on Bow attacks within melee range.

So, melee = close quarter but for "some" attacks

does the tooltip say "melee damage"?

hrothbern

Xvorg wrote: »

FlounderOG wrote: »

Probably swords and ***.

It is a problem that has not been addressed.

In all fantasy gaming tradition, attacks are divided into 2 big groups

Ranged
Non-Ranged (Close Quarter)

Then we have all those beautiful terms we have heard over the years: fire, ice, lightning, poison, disease, holy, psychic, magic, etc... and other 2 that are basically the same: projectile and melee. The difference is that the first is intrinsecally related to ranged attacks (arrows), while the second is intrinsecally related to CQ (swords, axes). To clarify MOAR, there's no ranged melee or non-ranged projectile.

Basically, your defence for both is the same: armor/shield, while the other attacks do need a specific resistance (resistance to poison for example).

You can turn the attack of any arrow into a ranged poison (or, to be more specific a ranged poison projectile) if you apply some kind of venom to the arrow (since ranged and projectile have become kind of a synonym during the years). Nevertheless, if you apply the same venom to a dagger, it will not become a poison attack per se, but a melee poison (thus, to do dmg, you should consider both, the specific resistance to poison of the enemy, and his armor).

I have seen a lot of games using those rules over the years, and it works.


Then we have ESO (which in-spite of respecting TES tradition, does things on his own... unfortunately)

In ESO there's not such distinction between melee and projectile. We have physical dmg, magic dmg and elemental dmg. Physical dmg is covered by wearing armor, while magic AND elemental dmg are mitigated by spell resistance. At one side of that road, we have another 2 sources of dmg: disease and poison, which are mitigated by specific resistances (elemental, apart of being mitigated by spell res, also have some specific resistances), and it seems that both also have some mitigation based on armor, although I'm not sure. CPs does not help to clarify that since their dmg increase is grouped with magic (and that blows everyone's mind)

So, we have a skill like poison arrow, which does poison dmg. No ranged element added, and that's OK (or kind of OK)

But then we have this set which specifically talks about "melee dmg"

If we consider melee as only weapon skills (except bows and staves) , then we should consider flying blade as melee, while destro clech, having a shorter "range" is considered a ranged attack. And if you add something like magnum shot in the bow line, then you should probably end up running in circles around your dinner table.

But hey! There's MOAR, aaaand it has to do with class skills.

Let's take surprise attack as an example. It does accomplish with all the conditions: it is a physical attack, it is done in close quarters, it display an animation of a guy tearing the torso of an enemy and it is mitigated by armor... right? But then we have his sister skill, concealed weapon, which is no longer a physical attack, but a magic one, and as such, it is mitigated by spell resistance.

Even in-game lore does not mention melee

Well, I think ZOs should clarify that, or at least give some insightful tool tip regarding those terms.

Riddles are fine for quests

but not for game mechanics

Agree that ZOS should just mention on the tooltip whether an ability is melee

just add 7 positions to all relevant tooltips: "(melee)"

The current intransparency is needlessly to the disadvantage of casual players !

@ZOS ???